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A Disturbing Trend Of New Players Vs. Veteran Players


Arlayn
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Lately I have gotten into heated arguments across the feedback section, and sometimes just reading them as is. A trend that has me deeply worried, and concerned for the future of Warframe. I did not think much of the excavation issue at first. I didn't even know a feedback topic was open for it awhile back. I was never aware of the interception on Mercury issue while back, and I was not aware of G3 attacking newer players. However I always play in the new areas because I GENUINELY CARE about the new player experience, and their build from there.

 

Digital Extremes, and Warframe will not grow, or thrive without new players coming in, and bringing in new sources of revenue. When new players like a game they tend to spend money later on down the line. That is a source of revenue. That is money in DE's pocket. That is money that goes toward the development of THIS GAME.

 

Now then I want to go over how a game functions how all online games SHOULD function for a BRAND NEW PLAYER. All players play a game to feel good. They come in, and the game creators have to play to the player's dopamine. What is Dopamine you ask? Well its your happy chemicals in your brain that reward you for doing a good job. The player has alot of fun of course during the first event, and first series of missions. By the time you get to Venus this should be slowing down, BUT not by too much. However it ends up doing so far too quickly.

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The player should be entertained with the idea of this is doable. This is fun. It is only Mercury, and Venus these are the beginner planets that introduce you to Corpus, and Grineer. However these intro planets do not play the way they should. Some missions are actually quite difficult even if your a Soma wielding killing machine some of these missions are quite literally a real challenge far too soon in the game. RAPIDLY decreasing Dopamine.

 

Let me give you a more physical representation of how new players deal with missions like Interception, and Excavation SO SOON in the game. Its like throwing a baby down a flight of stairs. Every bump is disappointment, and by the time they hit the bottom... well that is how they end up feeling about the game. You do not decrease Dopamine income that quickly. You can decrease immensely with Earth, and Mars BUT NOT VENUS, and MERCURY.

 

Now your wondering oh he is putting complaints about game in General discussion instead of feedback.

I intend for this to be a General discussion post so people may see this. Take it into consideration, and discuss it abit more. It could almost be feedback, but I direct this to the community at large.

 

Now that I have gone through the build up let us discuss the New player vs. Veteran player trend that has become brutal, and venomous to the community not just who is on the forums, but also those who simply play the game without ever coming on to the forums. There is an unspoken voice these people are the NEW PLAYERS. Their voice after awhile has been silenced. The current community on the forums pays no mind, attention, or care for these people anymore. These newer players either don't come on the forums. Don't know how to use the forums, or simply are checking out the game, and are unsure if they should get involved with the community or not yet...

 

I have noticed a violent defense for things like Excavation, and G3 appearances with absolutely NO consideration for newer players. I fear this may spiral out of control as new content comes out, and the only thing people are thinking about are themselves, end game, and the veteran play through as a whole. However a consideration should be made from beginning to end not just the end. Every time you make feedback you need to realize new players are not used to the game. They still find it jarring. I mean they went from Earth with lush forest in the first quest. To the snow lands of Corpus outpost, to spaceships, and asteroids on Mercury. Which is quite a fast paced change of environments with multiple kinds of mission types to be interacting with. These players will start with limited content from the start. The gear itself which I have been playing with this entire time doesn't really pack much of a punch at all, and may even struggle. The Mk-1 Kunai are slow, and takes forever to hit generators which can get you killed. The Paris takes more than one hit to kill anything on Venus, and is generally slow on Mercury so if you took a paris, kunai combo to a sabotage mission with enemies breathing down your neck your kinda screwed.

 

Now imagine that horrible combo being brought to interception, and excavation... yeah... not a pretty picture. However some veteran will defend that. They will exclaim "oh they are just brain dead. Only a noob wouldn't comprehend the common sense, or how Lotus plainly explains it" Yeah... sure. When I first tried excavation during the event I was confused, and had no idea what was going on, what a scanner, or anything. Now imagine a new player joining the game, and seeing, and hearing all this. Good lord that is jarring to think about. There isn't enough common sense for an individual raised in a modern world to comprehend futuristic stuff not yet introduced in our modern world. We as Veteran players NEED to stop defending hard content. If the content is hard we need to look at it not with our point of view, but with a new pair of eyes. Maybe grab some random person on the street. Tell them the controls, and have them play things others say is hard, but you feel is easy. See how they handle themselves in the situation. Give them the beginner gear. Give them stuff they can't use beyond the mastery rank most new players will have. Watch their struggle, and reaction. Heck take it further pop a forma in there, and really watch them struggle.

 

I understand there is a need for end game. I understand having something to keep veterans around is a big issue. However new players who join the game have ALOT of content to grind,and dig through. Tons of items to pick up along he way. Tons of missions, tons of content to deal with. So much so it could last a good long while for new players just joining in to be bewildered with. However small things like mission balancing, enemy balancing, and how new players see things is a serious issue that we veterans should honest to goodness care about as a whole. I mean some of us even complain there isn't enough people playing on different planets. Well if we didn't scare people away, and helped people to like the game more we would have more people scattered across the solar system.

 

As a whole I am trying to push a vital lesson here. Something everyone should take into consideration, and actively do. That is care about both spectrum's of the game, and how they interact with everything. While some things are easy for you. They may not be easy for others. How it works for end game may not be how it SHOULD work for beginning of the game. Don't defend things based on your personal experience as this Godly Veteran warrior who's ancestors are Kratos, Hercules, Odin, Zeus and Hayden. Everyone has a different experience, and everyone is approaching this game very differently. There is a reason in college psychology they tell you NEVER say "I know what your going through" Because you QUITE LITERALLY DO NOT. So next time you go through the feed back section. Take a moment to understand the experience being discussed. Try to take it in for a moment. Think of every possible way this person may be experiencing it. What angle are they approaching it with. HELP THEM if needed, but consider there may be others having a similar approach who do not come on the forums, and may have even given up feeling going on the forums is pointless because the company doesn't care to balance issues like this. People simply don't know what DE goes through, and people simply don't know what people discuss on here. Making discussion, feedback and pushing DE on matters like this is vital, and important to the continued growth, and evolution of Warframe. Without new players Warframe with fade away. Players are the blood of this game. New players are the new blood. To keep the body going strong it needs blood to continually flow through the system, and keep it going. Over time we lose blood due to upset players, but new players fill in where the old have left, and as we have seen over the years double, if not triple that number over time.

 

Our wonderful, and beautiful game flourishes now, but we should always keep our eyes on the future. Warframe has more potential than we recognize the new PBr has serious potential in the future to give Warframe a brand new beautiful look. DE is constantly updating content on the go. We have a good thing going here. If we stop and consider the future of the game every day, and discuss it with DE, and each other then that is more time Warframe will live on. Consider the game. Consider the future. Consider those around you, and new comers to come. A game lives based on its community. We are the bread, and butter. The blood. The life force that keeps it kicking. Consider your actions carefully. Consider your post carefully. Consider the people who read your pose carefully. I did. I realize I will get bashed for this too. I realize someone will point out a flaw in my thinking. I realize the scrutiny I might face, but the community at large must come to terms with the possibility that maybe they have been focusing too much so on end game, and not enough on the entirety of the game.

 

edit: TL;DR consider everything you read, and all points of views carefully.

 

Always report bugs

Always speak your mind in feedback

Never stay silent, and keep screaming at the top of the lungs on the these forums. Someone will hear you.

Edited by Arlayn
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Well, said.

 

However, in order to provide the best feedback I can, I can only speak on matters from the viewpoint of a veteran player because that is what I am. I couldn't possibly imagine how all these new features appear from the viewpoint of a new player so I don't really have any opinion on it - I'll let the new players do the talking on those matters rather than try to come up with some argument.

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Good points, but dont you forget that G3 and other bosses were made with end game in mind. How do you think a fresh-out-of-cryo Tenno can kill a bunch of experienced Tenno hunters? Same for Stalker and Zanuka. This game is based on grind - so replayability should be insanely high. Because of that most of encounters are scaleable and almost impossible for a noob to win. For him to have the desire to do it next time. Better prepare for it.

 

Also people kinda should learn in first 3-4 planets, just by finishing missions, not going deep on defense or excavation. Many things are quite self explanatory, except maybe real problem with 70%+ for LS activation.

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Good points, but dont you forget that G3 and other bosses were made with end game in mind. How do you think a fresh-out-of-cryo Tenno can kill a bunch of experienced Tenno hunters? Same for Stalker and Zanuka. This game is based on grind - so replayability should be insanely high. Because of that most of encounters are scaleable and almost impossible for a noob to win. For him to have the desire to do it next time. Better prepare for it.

 

Also people kinda should learn in first 3-4 planets, just by finishing missions, not going deep on defense or excavation. Many things are quite self explanatory, except maybe real problem with 70%+ for LS activation.

Don't assume the veteran point of view.

 

My entire game play is me literally on Venus, and Mercury. Consider me the new player experience guardian. If there is a flux, or imbalance I will literally flip out, and show up on the feedback section screaming about it. I care about the progression, and continued survival of the game. So I watch the new player experience VERY CAREFULLY. I examine new players, and watch how some veterans interact with them, and watch how they handle themselves. I give them guidance, and understanding. Sometimes even free stuff if I can manage it. It makes me happy to see new players enjoying the game. I used to take new players, and throw them at Lephantis even if they lose they have a GREAT TIME fighting it, and they become even more excited about the game wanting more. They want to become strong like the veteran players, and we veteran players have to act as role models of whats to come for them.

Edited by Arlayn
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DE knows what to do, i'm more than sure about it since last Devstream. What Steve said about "endgame" - something that everyone can enjoy, not only "veterans" (why people even use that word? You're just playng a game after all.).

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Um, dude, gotta tell you, first up: Earth is the first planet, not mercury(planet #2) or venus(planet #3). Was changed for u14.

 

Secondly, it's not overly hard... I do not believe that corpus on venus are a fair challenge for a low level, solo player(their damage is a tad too high), but otherwise, it works.

 

That being said, some of us really do care about the n00bles. I know a lot of players(myself included) who've jumped on all kinds of anti-newbie goofs(G3 on mercury when it was the first planet, the lights/arc traps in the same, having first survival and then interception dead in the middle of the progress path, both at absurdist difficulties...)

 

My clan, alliance, and friends list has a great deal of badasses who can shred the highest level content, and, yet, we often discuss things the newbies need. We also spend time helping newbies too--the first chat line many players have ever read on the game was my "Welcome to warframe! Press T to talk!"(I've dropped the last part now that the T key is permanently on the HUD, though). I actively try to play with them and find out what they're having difficulty with or are really enjoying. I'm not alone.

 

We definitely do not have a newbs v. vets thing going on. Even when I post ideas(which aren't directly related to newbies... many are), the topic of how it will affect them usually comes up first. Nuances like "so, that would completely break Y exceptionally-obscure mechanic, right?" comes much later, if at all. I can't say any community of millions of people is free from shallow fools, but I'm confident a majority of us aren't against them, and are, in fact, possibly all in their favor.

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I agree with 99% of your points. 

I try not to comment too much because I can only look at the issue from a vets POV but I do try to help new players where I can and I look at the new player experience from time to time. I've done a bit of play testing with unranked/low ranked frames and equipment available to new players.

 

My only counter thought is this: At what point does it become a new player discussing content that is too hard for the majority of new players or a new player just being either lazy and expecting everything handed too them? (I have seen some insane statements from new players) Sometimes its not a matter of the content being too hard but a matter of the player in question lacking common sense or know how (not taking cover etc).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to give new players a hard time. Its just sometimes there are new players that for lack of a better word, are just "bad" at the game or not willing to learn. Very rarely have I found myself confused in WF. I picked up excavation within a few minutes and fully grasped what was going on. I realise not everyone picks up information the same way, but comments along the lines of: "how do I melee?" or "This game is too hard. I run out into massive groups of enemies and die quickly" do make you wonder. Unless you have never played any kind of shooter in your life most of these problems are solved with common sense and just paying attention to your surroundings and the tutorial. 

 

The new player experience is important, sure. Just some food for thought.

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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Don't assume the veteran point of view.

 

My entire game play is me literally on Venus, and Mercury. Consider me the new player experience guardian. If there is a flux, or imbalance I will literally flip out, and show up on the feedback section screaming about it. I care about the progression, and continued survival of the game. So I watch the new player experience VERY CAREFULLY. I examine new players, and watch how some veterans interact with them, and watch how they handle themselves. I give them guidance, and understanding. Sometimes even free stuff if I can manage it. It makes me happy to see new players enjoying the game. I used to take new players, and throw them at Lephantis even if they lose they have a GREAT TIME fighting it, and they become even more excited about the game wanting more. They want to become strong like the veteran players, and we veteran players have to act as role models of whats to come for them.

Ehehehe I do that too, sometimes. Go in mercury or venus and help struggling players out.

 

I agree with you. Mercury and Venus are way too hard for the new players. Game-modes like excavation and hunters like the G3 should not attack until, say, MR 4-5, when they have some grip on the game. It's not logical to expect new players to suddenly hop into a brand new game-mode aand just catch up with everything.

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I've been "complaining" about the negative difficulty curve in WF for a while now.


New players face a game that is VERY hard and at some points even a discouraging one....while later down the line it gets so easy that it's outright BORING.


This needs to be fixed. Optimal scenario would be a game that is just as hard for new and veteran players alike....DE is trying out a few things there...but I think the best answer has yet to be found....and it is not enemy damage or level scaling for sure ;p



difficulty curve Currently:  '-_ (way too harsh early game, medium middle game, far too easy "endgame")

What most games have _-´ (easy early, medium middle game, hard endgame)

What would be ideal: -----' (a medium difficulty game with some extra challenges at the end)


What's important is that "lowlevel content" should not ge significantly easier with veterans present as well.

Edited by Shehriazad
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 My 2 cents on the issue is almost too simple.

 

 People need to start talking about the bigger uglies sitting behind a lot of our nastier issues. It'd be cool to see more people finally talking about topics we all tend not to address directly. Things that effect new and old player adversely for different reasons - like the fact that enemy scaling in this game is so aggressive that it does force players to rely on the kind of gear players often find themselves angry about. 

 

 "This is OP nerf it!" -> "DE can't nerf it! It's too likely it'll end up useless!" -> "But it's OP!" -> "Only on stuff under level 30! Think about the guys playing long rounds of Survival! That OP sort of stuff is necessary!"

 

 Conversation flows like that example around here fairly often. I see it all play out on endless repeat week after week. It's just the amount of expletives and the nouns that like to do a lot of changing.

 

 Feedback on these forums is bizarre for myriad reasons. I think the worse bits of it are how few people are truly looking to discuss things and talk compromise on clashing issues and how people tend to treat a great many topics as taboo for crap reasons like "But that'd take too much work".

 

 More open minds. More compromise solutions. More support. More teaching. Less people just denying ideas or problems.

 

 The best each of us can do as posters here in this community is attempt to get better in these sorts of ways. Hell, I'm not even perfect at giving feedback/discussing it.

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That's all very well and good, but newbies, like veterans, come in all shapes and sizes.  Some newbies are unfazed, indeed enjoy difficulty, others can't handle it, and want a game more to relax with; some veterans are great players, other veterans are pretty crap because they've been "carried" through a lot of the content.

 

The real fundamental division that's important is between players (whether newbies or veterans) who play for challenge and player who play to relax; between players who are competitive and strive to better themselves, and players who just want something they can get into a mild trance state with after work.

 

Both are legitimate reasons for playing a game, but their requirements don't sit easily with each other when developers try to make a game that pleases both camps.  Something that's perfect for one camp will be annoying for the other.

 

So the tricky thing for devs is to make some content easily breeze-through-able, and some content difficult and challenging, and to clearly demarcate which is which, so people can find their own level easily.

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The G3 now scale depending on the group so it's isn't as big a problem as you may think.

 

I've had quite a few encounters recently.  

 

Mostly with 4 high level players looking for them and having a challenging time when they pop up, this is good.

 

I did have one on Earth with 2 MR 0 and MR4 in a PUG.  I was leveling Excal (got myself a new one) and only had fairly low stuff.  The fight was fluid but not one of the newbies went down and the G3 were vanquished.  In the high level group usually at least one gets one hit downed.  So the balance is there.

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I feel the OP has some good points, but is short of the whole picture.

 

The following is simply my opinion based off of observation.

 

Yes, Beginning content should be designed around new players, and in a way that keep their interest.

Yes, veteran players need to be more considerate of new players and their content.

 

However, here is where it gets cloudy. I agree, the playerbase is the blood of this game, and the blood needs to flow. But you have a free to play game, that has focused on constant content releases to generate revenue. This is fine, but it isnt the only thing that has to be focused on. The end goal is generating income to the company to continue working on this project. But there has not been enough action in how to keep players once they have reached veteran status.

 

Right now the focus has been on expanding to multiple platforms. This is a great thing, but unfortunately there are only so many new players that will be received from this. There are also only so many viable platforms you can expand to. ~1.5 years into this project, and you have a vast majority of new players reaching veteran status. A lot of time is spent on generating instant content and event content that generates income on a short basis, and not enough time has been spent on creating a renewable income source focusing on end game which ultimately is where the game...... ends.

 

Attention to detail must be given to all areas, however I have 147 people on my friends list, and these past few weeks Ive only been seeing maybe 10 or less on at any given time. Other people are sharing similar experiences. Active people within the clan has gone down. Active members within the alliance has gone down, which means what is happening in my own clan can be seen around the community as well.

 

in the last month ive witnessed some of the greatest, most influential people, stop playing. Ive seen WHOLE clans move on to other games. With that being said, there is a point where people leaving the game will exceed the people entering the game. Has that point already come? Even if it hasnt, I personally dont think there has been enough preparation for that time.

 

That means that if the intention is for this project to continue for another year or more, the business model must change slightly.

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Well, said.

 

However, in order to provide the best feedback I can, I can only speak on matters from the viewpoint of a veteran player because that is what I am. I couldn't possibly imagine how all these new features appear from the viewpoint of a new player so I don't really have any opinion on it - I'll let the new players do the talking on those matters rather than try to come up with some argument.

it's actually the right attitude you know

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How exactly would a new player need to deal with the Harvester or Grustrag 3? For them to come gunning for you would require to participate in invasions, which don't show up very often on starter planets.

Even IF they have somebody in their squad with the mark they shouldn't be in too much a predicament if the assassins are there for their teammate. I know Harvester only takes one guy. Not sure about G3.

If some MR1-2 has a mark then somebody taxied them somewhere they had no right to be.

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I'm a newish player, I starting playing after update 14 and Cryonic Front was my first event.

 

I LOVE excavation, it's by far the best game mode. 

 

Early on I thought survival and interception were impossible to solo and the only issue was the lack of random people joining those game modes. Trying to start the kubrow quest was awful because it was a survival mission and the odds of a random person joining to help were quite low.

 

Often in games with random people I felt like the fat kid on a track struggling to keep up with champion marathon runners. IMO there's nothing wrong with the base movement speed of frames with rush mod but movement exploitative things like coptering need to be removed from the game. The way veteran players have learned to grip terrain and launch themselves like they were shot out of a cannon is broken and leads many new players to conclude that you are speed hacking. My first PVP experience in a rail conflict left myself and a friend I got to play the game convinced this game suffered from teleport hacks because of Ash. There are so many "legitimate" things in this game that scream "CHEATER" to new players. Do you want all new players to think the game suffers from rampart hacking and cheating? 

 

My biggest complaint about this game at this stage is the Void and Derelicts, there is no match making service for these so you need to have a premade group or go it alone. Unfortunately I was only able to convince one person to join this game (I got a few others to try it but they quit immediately due to no first person support) and he's been having severe crash issues with warframe and is reaching his wits end with the game. There is absolutely no reason you can't match players who burned a void key to queue in a small group or solo with others who did the same; if you really wanted to be alone you can set the game match making to not be public. It's also bogus you can't join a void mission in progress; I can't tell you how many times my friend has been disconnected and unable to rejoin. This is not fun, it's infuriatingly frustrating.

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I feel the OP has some good points, but is short of the whole picture.

 

Attention to detail must be given to all areas, however I have 147 people on my friends list, and these past few weeks Ive only been seeing maybe 10 or less on at any given time. Other people are sharing similar experiences. Active people within the clan has gone down. Active members within the alliance has gone down, which means what is happening in my own clan can be seen around the community as well.

 

in the last month ive witnessed some of the greatest, most influential people, stop playing. Ive seen WHOLE clans move on to other games. With that being said, there is a point where people leaving the game will exceed the people entering the game. Has that point already come? Even if it hasnt, I personally dont think there has been enough preparation for that time.

 

That means that if the intention is for this project to continue for another year or more, the business model must change slightly.

Pretty sure I mentioned... "the entirety of the game" in the end.

 

Don't worry my intentions isn't to make people solely focus on the beginning I said before I have considered the end game. We all have to come to terms DE has a very diverse team now that is literally doing everything every time there is a work day. They have teams working bugs, rooms, balancing, weapons, lore, etc. Saying this needs X doesn't mean the entirety of DE will hit the breaks on Y, and work solely on X. Neither does it mean they will work on X, or Y either. DE knows what they are doing to a degree as well. We should also consider this. DE is still new to the MMO world. However they have done an excellent job with their first game. That says alot, and at the same doesn't. Which is confusing when you think about, but in reality they still want to hear what we have to say. Just because they say they know what they are doing doesn't mean they want us to simply shut up 100%. They still want to hear what we have to say. If we stay quiet on a subject they will assume we don't care, and continue about their business or put it as low priority "maybe". Their agenda is mysterious. I mean Arch wing came completely out of left field with little hints from Mag Prime lore.

 

So at the same time I will accept I am wrong. I also feel I am right in with some respect. Don't get me wrong I may sound like a white knight at times, but I am truly considering some very strange thoughts that some people don't think about, and I sometimes forget to explain its entirety from the start, because I have a narrow mind when I am upset about something sometimes (yes this sounds hypocritical) forgeting aspects so to a point I don't consider every little thought imaginable. Because  no one has the answer to every little detail. I certainly don't I can't tell you what the end game needs because I am usually not focused on it. I usually focus on the beginning. I watch new players die ALOT. That is simply a thing I deal with on a daily basis. I watch the gameplay at the beginning. I then complain about it.

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It's nice to attempt to address these things, however it seems to ignore the fact that difficulty is subjective. This is not debatable. Different people see the game differently in terms of difficulty. Obviously the goal isn't Dark Souls hard, but it seems like new players run the gamut of gaming experience. If someone drops in thinking this is some sort of RPG, they are going to die in the introduction mission (if that is technically possible). If they are a seasoned FPS gamer, once they figure out things like 'Only shoot Grineer in the head' it's a cakewalk.

 

Alternatively, forums generally don't represent the populace as a whole, so there is no real majority or concise quorum to justify any particular point of view. One can observe things happening in the wild, such as difficulty for newbies, but even that generally will never represents the whole.

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Alternatively, forums generally don't represent the populace as a whole, so there is no real majority or concise quorum to justify any particular point of view. One can observe things happening in the wild, such as difficulty for newbies, but even that generally will never represents the whole.

Which is why we should be considerate of what we post in the forums. We are not the majority. Those people who don't post are the unheard voices.

edit: you can still talk to these people and relay their pain for them.

Edited by Arlayn
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Well said, but I'm going to mention the following:

 

- New players are RUDE

- New players don't CARE to be taught.

- New players cannot follow simple instructions even when presented nicely. (btw yes, I'm a D-bag on the forums but when I talk in game, I kinda go like this: "guys, please don't use life support until we hit 60%, otherwise it might be wasted."

 

A new player should go: "Oh hey, this guy is giving me advice, perhaps I should try it out."

 

Instead they just troll the heck out of you and feel good about it.

 

Why then should a veteran bother to even lower himself to the status of a newbie who is extremely rude and unwilling to learn. Many of us veteran Tenno would love to have disciples. I have trained my own cell and worked with people who are willing to learn. The instant they pick up my tricks they'll see themselves as the orange numbers at the end-screen. However, these people are very very few and far between.

 

Why? Warframe has no mentoring system. A master-disciple system would work wonders because a new player can see first hand, literally how incredibly powerful a veteran Tenno is. They will then strive to obtain this level. The veteran can also impart builds, methods of gathering platinum, a multitude of things.

 

Instead, Tenno are thrown into the game and believe that the game will teach them. Other players are viewed as an annoyance when they try to take command of the battlefield, irrespective of how much experience or knowledge they might have.

 

I believe that you have good intentions in making this post. But there is nothing we can do, no matter how much we try to relate, that can change the attitude of the players playing the game.

 

Most gamers are horrible social cripples. They can't play or relate to anyone beyond their circle of friends. PUGs are a nightmare to them and they choose to go solo believing they don't need anyone else.

 

What we really need, in order to make this game worthwhile for beginners, is a way of introducing training for Tenno and a meaningful relationship BETWEEN the veterans and the newer players.

 

T4 which is as easy as breathing for me, is a nightmare for first timers who don't realise how quickly they'll get one-shotted. Yet today I had the pleasant experience of leading a new group through T4 with my Loki on the frontlines. I died the most, but I kept them safe and when we beat Vor, it was a nice experience. This kind of thing can happen more often, if DE looks at a proper integration of interaction between Veterans and Newbies.

 

Not all Vets should become mentors, some suck at teaching, but those who have the willingness and desire to share should be able to, and that will be the first real step toward creating a good 'new player experience'.

Edited by Semshol
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Well said, but I'm going to mention the following:

 

- New players are RUDE

- New players don't CARE to be taught.

- New players cannot follow simple instructions even when presented nicely. (btw yes, I'm a D-bag on the forums but when I talk in game, I kinda go like this: "guys, please don't use life support until we hit 60%, otherwise it might be wasted."

All I can say to this is that not all new players are like this. In fact, most new players I have seen are courteous, want to be taught, and are willing to learn and follow helpful instructions. 

 

However, that does not mean you never encountered bad players or that either of us are wrong. Just that it is wrong to generalize an entire group of people based on an individual's set of experiences, which more than likely conflict with the experiences of someone else.

 

Saying all new players act badly is no different than me going "All veterans are horrible people". It simply isn't true. It may be true for some players, but not all players.

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Pretty sure I mentioned... "the entirety of the game" in the end.

 

Don't worry my intentions isn't to make people solely focus on the beginning I said before I have considered the end game. We all have to come to terms DE has a very diverse team now that is literally doing everything every time there is a work day. They have teams working bugs, rooms, balancing, weapons, lore, etc. Saying this needs X doesn't mean the entirety of DE will hit the breaks on Y, and work solely on X. Neither does it mean they will work on X, or Y either. DE knows what they are doing to a degree as well. We should also consider this. DE is still new to the MMO world. However they have done an excellent job with their first game. That says alot, and at the same doesn't. Which is confusing when you think about, but in reality they still want to hear what we have to say. Just because they say they know what they are doing doesn't mean they want us to simply shut up 100%. They still want to hear what we have to say. If we stay quiet on a subject they will assume we don't care, and continue about their business or put it as low priority "maybe". Their agenda is mysterious. I mean Arch wing came completely out of left field with little hints from Mag Prime lore.

 

So at the same time I will accept I am wrong. I also feel I am right in with some respect. Don't get me wrong I may sound like a white knight at times, but I am truly considering some very strange thoughts that some people don't think about, and I sometimes forget to explain its entirety from the start, because I have a narrow mind when I am upset about something sometimes (yes this sounds hypocritical) forgeting aspects so to a point I don't consider every little thought imaginable. Because  no one has the answer to every little detail. I certainly don't I can't tell you what the end game needs because I am usually not focused on it. I usually focus on the beginning. I watch new players die ALOT. That is simply a thing I deal with on a daily basis. I watch the gameplay at the beginning. I then complain about it.

 

No no i wasnt implying right or wrong, i was simply stating observations that will lead to an early conclusion of this project.

 

Oh also, my personal opinion says that DE is too easy on the majority of the community's selfish attitudes. In fact, I think whatever end game content they do come up with should have some kind of mastery rank requirement.

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