A Disturbing Trend Of New Players Vs. Veteran Players

[PsychedelicSnake]

No no i wasnt implying right or wrong, i was simply stating observations that will lead to an early conclusion of this project.

 

Oh also, my personal opinion says that DE is too easy on the majority of the community's selfish attitudes. In fact, I think whatever end game content they do come up with should have some kind of mastery rank requirement.

I kind of agree with the idea that DE might be too lenient. Not just on community attitudes, but on a multitude of things, both in-game and out.

[Arlayn]

Well said, but I'm going to mention the following:

 

- New players are RUDE

- New players don't CARE to be taught.

- New players cannot follow simple instructions even when presented nicely. (btw yes, I'm a D-bag on the forums but when I talk in game, I kinda go like this: "guys, please don't use life support until we hit 60%, otherwise it might be wasted."

 

A new player should go: "Oh hey, this guy is giving me advice, perhaps I should try it out."

 

Instead they just troll the heck out of you and feel good about it.

 

Why then should a veteran bother to even lower himself to the status of a newbie who is extremely rude and unwilling to learn. Many of us veteran Tenno would love to have disciples. I have trained my own cell and worked with people who are willing to learn. The instant they pick up my tricks they'll see themselves as the orange numbers at the end-screen. However, these people are very very few and far between.

 

Why? Warframe has no mentoring system. A master-disciple system would work wonders because a new player can see first hand, literally how incredibly powerful a veteran Tenno is. They will then strive to obtain this level. The veteran can also impart builds, methods of gathering platinum, a multitude of things.

 

Instead, Tenno are thrown into the game and believe that the game will teach them. Other players are viewed as an annoyance when they try to take command of the battlefield, irrespective of how much experience or knowledge they might have.

 

I believe that you have good intentions in making this post. But there is nothing we can do, no matter how much we try to relate, that can change the attitude of the players playing the game.

 

Most gamers are horrible social cripples. They can't play or relate to anyone beyond their circle of friends. PUGs are a nightmare to them and they choose to go solo believing they don't need anyone else.

 

What we really need, in order to make this game worthwhile for beginners, is a way of introducing training for Tenno and a meaningful relationship BETWEEN the veterans and the newer players.

 

T4 which is as easy as breathing for me, is a nightmare for first timers who don't realise how quickly they'll get one-shotted. Yet today I had the pleasant experience of leading a new group through T4 with my Loki on the frontlines. I died the most, but I kept them safe and when we beat Vor, it was a nice experience. This kind of thing can happen more often, if DE looks at a proper integration of interaction between Veterans and Newbies.

 

Not all Vets should become mentors, some suck at teaching, but those who have the willingness and desire to share should be able to, and that will be the first real step toward creating a good 'new player experience'.

I heard DE was making a mentoring system so I didn't bring it up in this. I do agree a Mentor system will close the gap tremendously. As I mentioned in a earlier I usually just grab new people, and throw them at Lephantis. Gets them pumped when they can see a Veteran in action. I am sure the team that you took to T4 was also very pumped after seeing how awesome you were. They probably wanted a loki too lol. I remember a few people wanting my Nekros, or wishing they chose Excalibur. They want to know about this, or that gun I use. It is exciting to help nurture the game, and new players.

 

Now as for the rude players. I will say I am not unaware of this. I have seen it. As I said I am like the guardian of the new player experience. I am always watching. There are people genuinely trying, and some that are pretty much not even trying. Then again those people who seem to be not trying could also have a mindset holding them back. I remember when I first played I got stuck on Corpus ships in Closed Beta till someone showed me the vent that leads into a room below, or the vent on the ceiling, and how to get out. I would get lost, and stuck in all sorts of places. I was always confused, and when people tried to explain things they had to literally come back to where I was on the map, and show me step by step. I had a hard time grasping what they were trying to tell me. Not sure if it was my ADD, or if I was just so blown away by the game I was like duhhh and to bewildered to comprehend anything straight.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Arlayn

[Sifu]

Now as for the rude players. I will say I am not unaware of this. I have seen it. As I said I am like the guardian of the new player experience. I am always watching. There are people genuinely trying, and some that are pretty much not even trying. Then again those people who seem to be not trying could also have a mindset holding them back. I remember when I first played I got stuck on Corpus ships in Closed Beta till someone showed me the vent that leads into a room below, or the vent on the ceiling, and how to get out. I would get lost, and stuck in all sorts of places. I was always confused, and when people tried to explain things they had to literally come back to where I was on the map, and show me step by step. I had a hard time grasping what they were trying to tell me. Not sure if it was my ADD, or if I was just so blown away by the game I was like duhhh and to bewildered to comprehend anything straight.

 

Its just because there are alot of 14 yo D-bags on the internets =( No matter how good you are, or how correct and usefull your advices are, you`ll get only rude attitude from them. Most of things I got on my own in this game, some things lurked in wf.wiki. IF a player want to know more - he will listen. If he is just to shoot zombies before his evening milk and cookies - dont wait much from him.

[Semshol]

All I can say to this is that not all new players are like this. In fact, most new players I have seen are courteous, want to be taught, and are willing to learn and follow helpful instructions. 

 

However, that does not mean you never encountered bad players or that either of us are wrong. Just that it is wrong to generalize an entire group of people based on an individual's set of experiences, which more than likely conflict with the experiences of someone else.

 

Saying all new players act badly is no different than me going "All veterans are horrible people". It simply isn't true. It may be true for some players, but not all players.

 

I do understand that, however it is the MAJORITY that are rude. Perhaps because of language barriers in some cases, but it is extremely difficult to teach new players what to do without them slapping you. Still, the good experiences that you get once in awhile do outweigh the bad and it is nice some days :)

 

 

-snip-

 

Yes, a mentor system would be excellent.

 

It was also a very good experience to work with those players. I taught them about T4 and how to build their weapons. It was hectic doing it mid-mission and providing full explanations, but I managed to do it...somehow. It is what made me think that veterans can make a difference, but both sides must connect.

 

 

Its just because there are alot of 14 yo D-bags on the internets =( No matter how good you are, or how correct and usefull your advices are, you`ll get only rude attitude from them. Most of things I got on my own in this game, some things lurked in wf.wiki. IF a player want to know more - he will listen. If he is just to shoot zombies before his evening milk and cookies - dont wait much from him.

 

Thing is though, many take the wrong attitude to the game and it starts being about pride rather than about the fun of the game itself. Greed and instant gratification are facets of the human psyche that cannot be removed, but a mentoring system can temporarily work around that because those who participate are already willing to learn :)

[7grims]

The dev's have been aware of some of those problems for quite a wile.

I heard a long time ago they were going to rebalance the difficulty for beginners.

But there should also be a rebalance to get veterans to the starting planets, if you are a middle or a advance player, most planets below Saturn have no interest or appealing content no more.

 

Recently a also posted an different idea to balance the game, wich i believe was quite interesting and original, as i never saw anyone suggest something alike, but it didn't got any feedback. Might be cause ppl wont care for balance or for the beginner content.

And also, another terrible problem is having 120+ nodes, having too much repeated mission types on every planet, that spreads the players, but when starting its an interesting challenge to unlock all.

 

 

As for the veterans vs beginners, I only worry about the fact the new waves of players play worse and worse, they lack information on how to best play with a team and how best to use that team for their benefit, like the xp sharing range system.

 

Liked to read this post, DE should definitely read it too.

[Arlayn]

The dev's have been aware of some of those problems for quite a wile.

I heard a long time ago they were going to rebalance the difficulty for beginners.

But there should also be a rebalance to get veterans to the starting planets, if you are a middle or a advance player, most planets below Saturn have no interest or appealing content no more.

 

Recently a also posted an different idea to balance the game, wich i believe was quite interesting and original, as i never saw anyone suggest something alike, but it didn't got any feedback. Might be cause ppl wont care for balance or for the beginner content.

And also, another terrible problem is having 120+ nodes, having too much repeated mission types on every planet, that spreads the players, but when starting its an interesting challenge to unlock all.

 

 

As for the veterans vs beginners, I only worry about the fact the new waves of players play worse and worse, they lack information on how to best play with a team and how best to use that team for their benefit, like the xp sharing range system.

 

Liked to read this post, DE should definitely read it too.

Well the beginner planets do have an appeal for experiments, and just in general having fun killing things. I still enjoy Mercury, and Venus with my epic weapons seeing how well I can sneak around, or to see if a certain weapon load out is bad, or good without dropping dead in a higher difficulty based on how many times I get hit while still enjoying myself.

 

If anything if someone wants difficulty they should stay up in the higher up planets, do dark sector, do void. While players trying to learn, and get stronger should use the beginner planets as needed, and continue on their path. The first planets are just in general good places for players to develop, and veteran players to do experiments.

 

If you think the new waves lack information, and do worse then you obviously weren't here during Closed Beta. Talk about lacking so much information that a Corpus ship was a dreaded mission. Like you think derelicts were bad. Try the old Corpus ships, and the lack of help the game gave at all. As it is now the game gives so much help now. Its unbelievable how far this game has gone, but we just need to remember there are still those who need alittle push. Sometimes a great player is just waiting for a mentor to guide them to reach that path of greatness.

[Bansidhe]

Well said, but I'm going to mention the following:

 

- New players are RUDE

- New players don't CARE to be taught.

- New players cannot follow simple instructions even when presented nicely. (btw yes, I'm a D-bag on the forums but when I talk in game, I kinda go like this: "guys, please don't use life support until we hit 60%, otherwise it might be wasted."

 

A new player should go: "Oh hey, this guy is giving me advice, perhaps I should try it out."

 

Instead they just troll the heck out of you and feel good about it.

 

 

Everyone who makes a sweeping generalisation is an idiot and, similarly, all extremists should be taken outside and shot!

 

 

Edit: All joking aside, Semshol you come across as a really unpleasant person. I haven't been on these fora long but already you have made a distinct impression on me. What gives? Why so arsey?

Edited October 10, 2014 by Bansidhe

[7grims]

If anything if someone wants difficulty they should stay up in the higher up planets, do dark sector, do void. While players trying to learn, and get stronger should use the beginner planets as needed, and continue on their path. The first planets are just in general good places for players to develop, and veteran players to do experiments.

 

Well there is a idea around foruns were enemies should scale to the player, on all planets so it is always challenging and enjoyable to repeat every node.

I have the same kind of opinion, easy/starter planets do not draw any attention to me anymore.

 

As an attempt to create some talking about rebalance, and talking about 120+ useless nodes, i made this as a suggestion for rebalance:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321311-focus-system-balance-system-working-together-suggestion/#entry3627101

Edited October 10, 2014 by 7grims

[Shuuro]

When I first played Warframe, over a year ago, Update 10, Nekros being the new shiny frame, I loved it.

 

I played the game solo, and it was easier back then. MUCH easier.

 

My first death happened on Vor, I didn't know how he fought, and I got punished for it.

 

My first loss came when I was already a planet or two in, and I fought the infested for the first time. I saw some... mystical, twisted creature. I dashed towards it, and it back handed me onto the ground, stole my energy and shields, and had the infested tear me apart.

 

That was my first run in with an ancient.

 

From there on, I learned, evolved, got better, and figured there are parts in this game where solo isn't all that great of an option.

 

 

Over a year later. I have everything the game has to offer, and I admit, I'm one of those people that like to rush.

 

I invited a friend to play Warframe about a week ago, and to be fair, I stripped myself down to no mods, MK1 Paris, MK1 Kunai, and a Skana.

 

We played through the tutorial, and the lower level missions, and I had no problem with it. Headshots with the bow here, slide kills with the Skana there. No problem.

 

But my friend, not so much.

 

 

Something that we veterans have to also realize is that, we are simply that. Veterans. We know the game. We know our abilities, weapons, and the mechanics. A new player still has to run around, do tests for themselves. They still need to figure out how the game works. They still need to figure out limitations.

 

How was my friend supposed to know that the MK1 Bow was capable of killing enemies behind cover because it had the ability to pierce through walls and cover? Simple, he did not have that information.

 

How was he supposed to know that rolling or dodging does not give invulnerability but instead gives a straight up damage reduction from incoming harm?

 

There needs to be a more diverse tutorial that explains these things.

 

 

Some mission types are just outright brutal and fatal to the new player. Interception on Mercury: Odin. This came as a surprise to even me, a veteran, someone who can easily do over an hour in Tower 1~4 survivals. The mission for a new player, with the absolute basic of basic gear and mods that you start off with, with 2 players, was overwhelming. It started out fine, but then the enemies literally began to FLOOD in. A new player is not capable of holding off 7 enemies at Point A, which need several hits to die, and can block the terminal, while many, many more enemies come from different directions as they take over the other capture points.

 

You might argue that they should have played as a group. Jokes on you, the game was set to public. After failing the first round because it was too much, we tried again, and only one other person joined. Even with 3 players all using brand new unmodded gear, was unable to do the mission. It was too overwhelming.

 

The earlier planets really need a tone down to the difficulty. New players don't need a difficulty spike of exterminating 39 enemies in an entire map to having to withstand, defend AND KILL as much as 40 enemies in a SINGLE. LARGE. ROOM. In which, if they take too long, heavy enemies start to spawn.

 

The first few planets really need a tone down on difficulty. It's not the same as going there with a rank 30 excalibur and MK1 Braton Lato and Skana, because you have those shields and health to help you. They don't. A simple butcher can kill them with about 3~4 hits.

 

We are talking about players who don't know the mechanics of the game. Players who are still green behind the ears, and will get tunnel vision by looking down the sights too much, and getting punished by a flanking butcher.

 

 

-Turn down the spawn rates on lower planets. Too many enemies can, and will overwhelm new players!!

-Revert the levels of the missions back to the good old Level 1~1 enemies. These new players need to feel that they can accomplish their tasks! Not be beat down by a few enemies because they're still new and don't know what to do.

-Either heavily reduce the spawn rate of enemies in defense/interception missions in the lower planets so new players stand a chance, or remove them completely. When new players finally have a grasp of what they can do, let them be introduced to these modes on a later planet.

-Make broken mod drop rates on low planets MUCH higher, and make them rank up at half the rate. You want to make new players feel like they stand a chance, let them feel a little more empowered so they can face the new challenges ahead.

 

 

Remember Vets. Back then, we didn't have ridiculous things such as bleed. Imagine how frustrating it would have been if a grineer shot you from across a room, and you died from that slash proc? It would have been frustrating as hell. 

 

 

 

Edit: I would also like to add, that new players probably don't know how cover works in this game.

 

Think about it for a moment. We veteran players know what a hitscan weapon is, and know what a projectile weapon is. Awesome for us.

 

We also know, that if we use a hitscan weapon behind cover, we can still hit enemies behind that cover so long as the hitscan cross-air of our weapon is on an enemy. Furthermore, we also know that if we try to do something with a projectile weapon, it wont go through, it would end up hitting the wall/cover.

 

A new player will not have this information. They will not know that if they stand behind cover, and if their gun is clipping into the wall, that they can still shoot someone from cover because their weapon is hitscan.

 

I actually had to stop and explain to my friend mid-game about this mechanic, know what he told me?

 

"Well that's ****ing stupid, why didn't they tell me this while I was picking my ****ing weapons?" 

Edited October 10, 2014 by Shuuro

[Arlayn]

Well there is a idea around foruns were enemies should scale to the player, on all planets so it is always challenging and enjoyable to repeat every node.

I have the same kind of opinion, easy/starter planets do not draw any attention to me anymore.

 

As an attempt to create some talking about rebalance, and talking about 120+ useless nodes, i made this as a suggestion for rebalance:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321311-focus-system-balance-system-working-together-suggestion/#entry3627101

One of the many most terrifying suggestions ever made for this game. Not everyone wants to be subject to something like that. Not even I. The main reason I avoid excavation, and higher level planets is because they are no fun for me. I prefer the easier ones. Its like the Predator Concrete Jungle testing/tutorial area where you get infinite ammo to just mess around.

 

This stops being a matter of considering beginners, and considering all Veterans now. I certainly don't want that.

[7grims]

One of the many most terrifying suggestions ever made for this game. Not everyone wants to be subject to something like that. Not even I. The main reason I avoid excavation, and higher level planets is because they are no fun for me. I prefer the easier ones. Its like the Predator Concrete Jungle testing/tutorial area where you get infinite ammo to just mess around.

 

This stops being a matter of considering beginners, and considering all Veterans now. I certainly don't want that.

 

No, this means veterans would have a reason to go to beginner planets again, and the beginners would have ppl to play with, specially when those are veterans that can teach and lead them.

Many beginners are playing alone cause they dont find sessions, or they loose allot cause its a full team of beginners and they don't know how to work together to achieve a successful mission.

And if the game balances veterans and beginners, there wont be that huge grief of veterans coming to a beginner session blow everything, rush and leave, and letting those starters behind and unaware of what the hell just append.

 

But this is all theory.

[Arlayn]

No, this means veterans would have a reason to go to beginner planets again, and the beginners would have ppl to play with, specially when those are veterans that can teach and lead them.

Many beginners are playing alone cause they dont find sessions, or they loose allot cause its a full team of beginners and they don't know how to work together to achieve a successful mission.

And if the game balances veterans and beginners, there wont be that huge grief of veterans coming to a beginner session blow everything, rush and leave, and letting those starters behind and unaware of what the hell just append.

 

But this is all theory.

yes as I said its still a matter of considering all veterans now. I wouldn't go back to the old planets with a suggestion like that. I am already on Venus, and Mercury due to how easy it is. I am mastery rank 17, and everything in the game , but the Detron because I don't want to betray Corpus, and the Latron Wraith because Cryotic event was inhumane. I don't need to be there. I can steam roll everything there, but thats the reason why I like it. I love repetitive joy ride killings in this game. That is one of the best parts of this game. Taking that away would hurt half the community. Permanently keeping it easy at the start, and hard at the end is considering all Veterans not just the ones who demand challenge.

It is quite the theory

, but consideration is a must. I would drop the game violently if this occurred. I would have no playground left to play at anymore.

[adarazrad]

Lately I have gotten into heated arguments across the feedback section, and sometimes just reading them as is. A trend that has me deeply worried, and concerned for the future of Warframe. I did not think much of the excavation issue at first. I didn't even know a feedback topic was open for it awhile back. I was never aware of the interception on Mercury issue while back, and I was not aware of G3 attacking newer players. However I always play in the new areas because I GENUINELY CARE about the new player experience, and their build from there.

 

Digital Extremes, and Warframe will not grow, or thrive without new players coming in, and bringing in new sources of revenue. When new players like a game they tend to spend money later on down the line. That is a source of revenue. That is money in DE's pocket. That is money that goes toward the development of THIS GAME.

 

Now then I want to go over how a game functions how all online games SHOULD function for a BRAND NEW PLAYER. All players play a game to feel good. They come in, and the game creators have to play to the player's dopamine. What is Dopamine you ask? Well its your happy chemicals in your brain that reward you for doing a good job. The player has alot of fun of course during the first event, and first series of missions. By the time you get to Venus this should be slowing down, BUT not by too much. However it ends up doing so far too quickly.

(

)

The player should be entertained with the idea of this is doable. This is fun. It is only Mercury, and Venus these are the beginner planets that introduce you to Corpus, and Grineer. However these intro planets do not play the way they should. Some missions are actually quite difficult even if your a Soma wielding killing machine some of these missions are quite literally a real challenge far too soon in the game. RAPIDLY decreasing Dopamine.

 

Let me give you a more physical representation of how new players deal with missions like Interception, and Excavation SO SOON in the game. Its like throwing a baby down a flight of stairs. Every bump is disappointment, and by the time they hit the bottom... well that is how they end up feeling about the game. You do not decrease Dopamine income that quickly. You can decrease immensely with Earth, and Mars BUT NOT VENUS, and MERCURY.

 

Now your wondering oh he is putting complaints about game in General discussion instead of feedback.

I intend for this to be a General discussion post so people may see this. Take it into consideration, and discuss it abit more. It could almost be feedback, but I direct this to the community at large.

 

Now that I have gone through the build up let us discuss the New player vs. Veteran player trend that has become brutal, and venomous to the community not just who is on the forums, but also those who simply play the game without ever coming on to the forums. There is an unspoken voice these people are the NEW PLAYERS. Their voice after awhile has been silenced. The current community on the forums pays no mind, attention, or care for these people anymore. These newer players either don't come on the forums. Don't know how to use the forums, or simply are checking out the game, and are unsure if they should get involved with the community or not yet...

 

I have noticed a violent defense for things like Excavation, and G3 appearances with absolutely NO consideration for newer players. I fear this may spiral out of control as new content comes out, and the only thing people are thinking about are themselves, end game, and the veteran play through as a whole. However a consideration should be made from beginning to end not just the end. Every time you make feedback you need to realize new players are not used to the game. They still find it jarring. I mean they went from Earth with lush forest in the first quest. To the snow lands of Corpus outpost, to spaceships, and asteroids on Mercury. Which is quite a fast paced change of environments with multiple kinds of mission types to be interacting with. These players will start with limited content from the start. The gear itself which I have been playing with this entire time doesn't really pack much of a punch at all, and may even struggle. The Mk-1 Kunai are slow, and takes forever to hit generators which can get you killed. The Paris takes more than one hit to kill anything on Venus, and is generally slow on Mercury so if you took a paris, kunai combo to a sabotage mission with enemies breathing down your neck your kinda screwed.

 

Now imagine that horrible combo being brought to interception, and excavation... yeah... not a pretty picture. However some veteran will defend that. They will exclaim "oh they are just brain dead. Only a noob wouldn't comprehend the common sense, or how Lotus plainly explains it" Yeah... sure. When I first tried excavation during the event I was confused, and had no idea what was going on, what a scanner, or anything. Now imagine a new player joining the game, and seeing, and hearing all this. Good lord that is jarring to think about. There isn't enough common sense for an individual raised in a modern world to comprehend futuristic stuff not yet introduced in our modern world. We as Veteran players NEED to stop defending hard content. If the content is hard we need to look at it not with our point of view, but with a new pair of eyes. Maybe grab some random person on the street. Tell them the controls, and have them play things others say is hard, but you feel is easy. See how they handle themselves in the situation. Give them the beginner gear. Give them stuff they can't use beyond the mastery rank most new players will have. Watch their struggle, and reaction. Heck take it further pop a forma in there, and really watch them struggle.

 

I understand there is a need for end game. I understand having something to keep veterans around is a big issue. However new players who join the game have ALOT of content to grind,and dig through. Tons of items to pick up along he way. Tons of missions, tons of content to deal with. So much so it could last a good long while for new players just joining in to be bewildered with. However small things like mission balancing, enemy balancing, and how new players see things is a serious issue that we veterans should honest to goodness care about as a whole. I mean some of us even complain there isn't enough people playing on different planets. Well if we didn't scare people away, and helped people to like the game more we would have more people scattered across the solar system.

 

As a whole I am trying to push a vital lesson here. Something everyone should take into consideration, and actively do. That is care about both spectrum's of the game, and how they interact with everything. While some things are easy for you. They may not be easy for others. How it works for end game may not be how it SHOULD work for beginning of the game. Don't defend things based on your personal experience as this Godly Veteran warrior who's ancestors are Kratos, Hercules, Odin, Zeus and Hayden. Everyone has a different experience, and everyone is approaching this game very differently. There is a reason in college psychology they tell you NEVER say "I know what your going through" Because you QUITE LITERALLY DO NOT. So next time you go through the feed back section. Take a moment to understand the experience being discussed. Try to take it in for a moment. Think of every possible way this person may be experiencing it. What angle are they approaching it with. HELP THEM if needed, but consider there may be others having a similar approach who do not come on the forums, and may have even given up feeling going on the forums is pointless because the company doesn't care to balance issues like this. People simply don't know what DE goes through, and people simply don't know what people discuss on here. Making discussion, feedback and pushing DE on matters like this is vital, and important to the continued growth, and evolution of Warframe. Without new players Warframe with fade away. Players are the blood of this game. New players are the new blood. To keep the body going strong it needs blood to continually flow through the system, and keep it going. Over time we lose blood due to upset players, but new players fill in where the old have left, and as we have seen over the years double, if not triple that number over time.

 

Our wonderful, and beautiful game flourishes now, but we should always keep our eyes on the future. Warframe has more potential than we recognize the new PBr has serious potential in the future to give Warframe a brand new beautiful look. DE is constantly updating content on the go. We have a good thing going here. If we stop and consider the future of the game every day, and discuss it with DE, and each other then that is more time Warframe will live on. Consider the game. Consider the future. Consider those around you, and new comers to come. A game lives based on its community. We are the bread, and butter. The blood. The life force that keeps it kicking. Consider your actions carefully. Consider your post carefully. Consider the people who read your pose carefully. I did. I realize I will get bashed for this too. I realize someone will point out a flaw in my thinking. I realize the scrutiny I might face, but the community at large must come to terms with the possibility that maybe they have been focusing too much so on end game, and not enough on the entirety of the game.

 

edit: TL;DR consider everything you read, and all points of views carefully.

 

Always report bugs

Always speak your mind in feedback

Never stay silent, and keep screaming at the top of the lungs on the these forums. Someone will hear you.

man, that was a long one to read.

 

first, im happy that you CARE about new players, not alot do.

 

when im in game with some new players,i try to be friendly, sadly they all dont even talk ONCE..... but thats another probleom ( maybe they dont know that T is to talk?), when another veteran player comes in, he dont say hello, instaed he just saying " your so slow, i already on extraction " etc, but those are communtiy probleoms.

 

about missions, since i cant talk from new player side, ill just tell my opinion, i think missions are pretty balanced ( using unranked stuff, mk1 paris could do 1k headshot crit unmodded.... pretty damm awsome for mk1 ), as for endless, they dont have to stay long, they can just leave when they can.

 

i would follow and see what other people think tho

[Rhaenxys]

Well i start playing in update 13 and i was lucky to meet two guys who help me in a lot of things, overall this community tends to help the new players most than any other game ive played, at least thats what i see.

 

Gameplay related it was easy to play when i start, you will be learning some things every now and then but this game haves a lot of "elements" such polarities, getting rank exp through leveling weapons and much more, in my opinion this information could be added to the codex or something else.

 

But well helping new players in one way or another is better overall, they tend to stay if they like the community/game and thats more players to play with/money to the game, its a win-win situation.

[Cleesus]

Half of me thinks this should be in feedback, the other thinks it might be fine here in GD. Ill see what I decide on.

[Arlayn]

Half of me thinks this should be in feedback, the other thinks it might be fine here in GD. Ill see what I decide on.

to be honest at this point I feel it could go literally anywhere on the Forums lol...

[Chaosdreamer]

I stopped to read here : NEED to stop defending hard content.

 

I do not ask to "Hard content" , just a bit more difficult , you know what I mean? When i finish it , I can enjoy it and say "I did it" , yet in warframe theire nothing like that, it's is hard at the start , but way to much easy at the end, actually you got one challenge in the games 

 

pass the "boring low ranked time" that all

[Cleesus]

to be honest at this point I feel it could go literally anywhere on the Forums lol...

If you want the devs to see it i can move to  feedback, otherwise i guess it will stay here

[Monolake]

This game caters to new players more than to vets. New player experience been properly remade and now its no problem to even solo from ground up to the end with no  problems, the game is mostly easy. 

 

There is no problem  in excavations even with starter weapons, except you wont last many rounds, but you dont have to stay. The mode is explained by Lotus messages even if might be confusing at first. Then you even dont have to play it, you can bypass the excavation node. 

Edited October 10, 2014 by Monolake

[PookieNumnums]

new players and vets both deserve love  

 

ogs that have been active over the last year need attention as well. this is a trial by fire type of game 

 

how many players have spent a few hunnid and become inactive? 

 

opting for archwing over solidified end game was a good idea but doesnt devalue the importance of high lvl content for advanced players 

 

oh well i lub the devs either way

[K_Shiro]

OP is right and it wouldn't be so hard to actually help this issue.

 

No secret, I have a second profile. I had it for quite some time now. Asked it on the forums back in the day, they have said it's not against rules, only if I play them at the same time (2 clients I guess, did it in wow back then with 3-4 characters... you would be surprised, it's like a strategy game).

I didn't really use it, it was there, silently waiting in the void.

 

Anyways, this way I had the privilage to check out the game from the perspective of a player who barely started the game and the picture wasn't pretty. The tutorial is... not a tutorial at all. Yes, it does tell you what to do in That mission but even that is barely communicated to you since most likely the new player will have his ear filled with gunfire and his eyes constantly checking out everything around. That's how it works.

No problem there, a tutorial can't literally force you to pay attention (technically it can but that frequently ends up in smashing of Next or a fast alt+f4 if former action doesn't prove effective), but the problem is that in Warframe, no info is there When you need it. It's there when the game thinks you need it.

 

Codex is a nice way to communicate things but since it cannot be opened from the inside... well. There should be a popup telling the player at certain areas of the game (a simple floating console - huge one plz - near key locations that are in the player's path... like in deus ex: human revolutions) that he/she should press USE for tutorial. Then the codex's entry for that activity would pop up. This should actually pop on every mission of a type the player hasn't played yet - or it can be a simple popup query at the beginning of such mission asking if you want to see the tutorial. Pressing No would give you a message that "Whenever you feel the need to replay the tutorial, just check them in the Codex from the menu!". So they know where to look if they change their minds. And they will, oh man, they will.

 

As OP said, the new game mode replacing survival is fun but relatively hard to understand (mostly because illogical elements never mentioned - like energy not always seeping away, energy packs not assimilated by scanner, only drills getting damaged etc. It's not that hard to understand but the Lotus telling us a few words about it is not enough because high chance that you miss parts of it. Every single thing should have it's tutorial in the codex and it should be accessible from within missions - warning the player outside of solo play that the game isn't stopping (or just open the codex in a "window" where the edges of screen are visible so the poor sot knows when he is attacked).

 

I'm rank 17, played the game since open beta started and honestly even I could use some tutorial on some things. For example some things behaving erratically seemingly without reason (eg. wallwalking frequently not working with an entity below you, or walljumping - sometimes my char just doesn't want to run sideways on certain objects, no matter the angle I'm using... after it being nerfed this became even more apparent of an issue - I mean it was a beautiful way to show skill and move dynamically but... ah well, everything good get's nerfed nowadays... if at least it wasn't the height nerfed but distance by 25% since that is still ridiculous and it is actually height that could be useful and less visually weird).

 

New players have a ton of things to get so they can survive later on, my small profile is still pretty weak even with Me controlling it and I'm a veteran no matter how I look at it. Sure I can surviva and it was tremendous fun watching people 5 ranks above me fail embarassingly while me, a rank2-3 "noob" perform their task humiliatingly easy... but that's that. The game builds HEAVILY on damage, way too heavily. Enemies even just a little bit higher in rank skiyrocket in terms of armor and hp, and during missions that could award the players their necessary stuff, namely endless missions, get hard pretty damn fast. Even farming for keys can be pretty taxing on Apollodorus and that's extremely lowranked. At 15min any beginner can very well end up way being over their head.

As mentioned above, MK1 weapons are so incredibly weak that it hurts using them. No offense to DE but they should really stop being j*rks to new players. Okay that is offensive, sry about that but like it or not, that's how it feels.

Yes, they admitted that some mods are necessary for new players... what did they do? Add "broken" mods, with half the effectiveness. Seriously? So after all that debate, you give weak stuff for inexperienced players to put into their weak weapons. Seriously?

It was way better in open beta when we actually got an MK1-braton (which is still the best mk1 weapon), a skana and a lato. MK1 Braton wasn't truly weak at that time, it was only slower than Braton but actually had more dmg per shot. I wondered which one is better actually.

Yes, the players got the "choice" now, but the current mk1 weapons that DE added... they are true disgrace. Also, what is an MK1 Paris or MK1 Bo? I mean the terminology of MK1 is fine for a weapon manufactured in industry, like an automatic rifle (Braton) but for an artisan weapon like a bow or a melee weapon that is essentially nothing more than a straight stick?" This is our prototype stick, careful, it wasn't tested yet, may have hidden kinks... " sry, but sounds weird.

 

What I would give to beginners:

• First quest starting with Tutorial popup containing information about the situation. Not simply/just Lotus speaking to us, for people limited in the ways of the English, Lotus is nothing more than background noise and by the time they notice her speaking the subtitle is already gone.
• Tutorial message on the Liset, promting them to press OK to open Codex entry: UI tutorial or SKIP to skip that tutorial - latter which mentiones them that they can return to any tutorial in the Codex, any time.
• During the first quest, proper weapons can be chosen as reward - all of them which have tutorial about them showing them in action, talking about their strengths and weaknesses.
• A few important mods like Serration. No, not damaged ones. Seriously, what do you expect from a beginner? That he will level his Serration to max, in one go and become too OP for his own good? He can only do that with tons of grinding or buying a legendary core - and even in latter case if you put in damaged mods all that changes is that he won't buy a core but a maxed mod instead. Gee, that's really worth scr*wing the rest of the new players... or at least give an extra mission within the first quest where you repair your mods.
• A starting zone which is nothing more than the first 2 areas like Mercury, Venus where every major mission type is present. By major I mean a survival type (Survival or Excavation, no need for both, they are very similar), a defense type (Defense, Mobile Defense, Interception), a Mark type (Capture, Rescue), and fill the rest with basic types (Extermination, Spy, Sabotage, Deception).
• Restrain new players from entering new areas if their ranks are too low. This is actually not just for the protection of veterans but in return to theirs too. I am a rather patient person towards beginners (I have numerous clanmates that actually joined since I helped them through their first ranks) and even I have a tendency to call people noobs now. I hate that word but I met with a rank 0 on Sedna/Kappa just now. He didn't even know how to navigate the map, hell, first thing he did was to stumble and fall. They have nothing to do there. That mission is fairly easy for those that know their way around - but with rank 0-3, it's mostly me trying to make them understand that protecting the objective means Protecting that freaking objective instead of running around trying to block doors while the spawn points way outnumber the players (also xp sharing doesn't work if you are too far away and you have to run around for loot... etc.). Well, if they are trying to actually help and block those points - most likely they just want to kill and don't really care about whether or not the mission fails. Well, even high-ranked players manage to play the "door-hero" from time to time and in that matter they are worse since they don't even have the excuse of being "new". They just care about noone but themselves - well, that's why I have a clan but I care for them enough not to bother them every time I want to do the mission ("Hey, I want to scratch my *ss, could you help me with that too?").
• Inform them about their restraints so they are not raging that they cannot progress without reason.

As for the restraints (well, I Did write the most about that after all) I would let them use Mercury for Rank0, let them unlock Venus on Rank1 (the game tells them that they cannot us the node under Rank1 - they should have enough mastery points to brave the test though), Mars on Rank2, Jupiter on Rank3 (or vice versa, but only 1 by 1!), Phobos and Saturn on Rank4, and all others on Rank5. At Rank5 they shouldn't be that green anymore. Okay, maybe Rank5 is higher than necessary - but if someone wants to play using a single gun from the beginning of the game... well, he won't be benefical for the game anyways... that was indeed evil, okay.

Main point is that even if restraints and better weapons, better mods won't happen, tutorials are a must and by them I don't mean fancy scripted missions and the Lotus humming in the background but proper access to detailed information on every single aspect of the game, at any time - and notifications about this so they know that it's there.

_____________ _ _ _____________

 

PS.: Found this little thingy just now: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321392-newbie-got-questions/#entry3628059

Shows how little (or at least how inefficially) new players are instructed about the game's mechanics.

Edited October 10, 2014 by K_Shiro

[Arlayn]

I stopped to read here : NEED to stop defending hard content.

 

I do not ask to "Hard content" , just a bit more difficult , you know what I mean? When i finish it , I can enjoy it and say "I did it" , yet in warframe theire nothing like that, it's is hard at the start , but way to much easy at the end, actually you got one challenge in the games 

 

pass the "boring low ranked time" that all

A good example of this is Venus Excavation. A mission too hard, and people defend its difficulty abit too religiously. I say its ok for it to be hard beyond Venus, but at Venus I feel its too overbearing so soon. People have defend this mission without thinking of the consequences of new players coming across this, and being all like "oh right lets beat another mission on Venus" To be met with a punch in the face so soon in the game. I could expect a punch in the face on Earth. Just not on Venus, and possibly from Jackal. Because I feel Jackal should always be hard. It introduces you to the hell your going to face with EVERY corpus boss in the game. Except Nef of course. Because bosses like the Hyenas, ambula, and Raptor are quite the pain. Zanuka is simply tricky, and requires abit of thinking.

 

 

This game caters to new players more than to vets. New player experience been properly remade and now its no problem to even solo from ground up to the end with no  problems, the game is mostly easy. 

 

There is no problem  in excavations even with starter weapons, except you wont last many rounds, but you dont have to stay. The mode is explained by Lotus messages even if might be confusing at first. Then you even dont have to play it, you can bypass the excavation node. 

true it can be bypassed entirely, but it doesn't feel right. Its content that new players will only get a small taste of. They won't be able to feel the full brunt of it. I mean I still haven't seen why this mode is fun. Its still miserable to me, but I am sure some people can find some joy in it if they find a way to get into it some how.

 

 

new players and vets both deserve love  

 

ogs that have been active over the last year need attention as well. this is a trial by fire type of game 

 

how many players have spent a few hunnid and become inactive? 

 

opting for archwing over solidified end game was a good idea but doesnt devalue the importance of high lvl content for advanced players 

 

oh well i lub the devs either way

This can still go both ways. Some people who spend alot are still around... Sorta floating around actually. Seen them pop in every now, and then to help with my dojo resources in my clan lol. Seen them pop into missions randomly too even. You can tell who they are based on the fancy syandana. Especially when they have the fancy Syandana Ember Prime gets, and the armor that Nyx Prime gets. I have met quite a few casual super players in the game. Mostly ones I am in an alliance with, and in my clan since were a clan/alliance of Casual players. Except a small few of us who go crazy hardcore once in awhile.

[Arlayn]

If you want the devs to see it i can move to  feedback, otherwise i guess it will stay here

If you feel 100% that the Devs, and community can benefit from it being seen by devs on feedback sure. I think enough viewers have seen it on the General Discussion board, and enough people have answered it here for it to be 100% fleshed out at its maximum peak.

[Monolake]

Mastery locking planets is the worst idea ever.

[Arlayn]

Mastery locking planets is the worst idea ever.

terrible idea I agree. Alot of vet players never have a reason to go beyond rank 7-8. Alot of new players will miss out on chances to go sight seeing. Which is absolutely worth it in this game just to enjoy the view. Also Mods... People need mods to advance in this game.