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Remove Energy Drops, Give All Frames Passive Energy Regen, And Base Energy Cost Off Of Ability Rank


CaveCricket48
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What is a scenario where ult spamming is required, and you must be mobile 100% of the time?

 

If you plan your team composition accordingly you can stay in the same position indefinitely.

Solo/Duo Interception, especially mid-high level. Extra points if your ult is a utility one.

 

It would be pretty hard with your system in place.

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Anything that stops the [insert frame here] from walking into a room and killing it instantly for all rooms would be welcome by me (so long as it isn't just making enemies stronger than the powers, which DE would most likely do.)

Play higher level content because then players won't be doing that all too often as Ultis lose their power the higher you get.

 

 

For me the Energy system is just fine and doesn't need changing. If you're gonna lower the energy cost you're just going to make Energy Aura mod so useful that no other mod is worth the hassle. Because of the low energy needed you will all of sudden be able to throw out your ulti when you please.

 

Not to mention you'll make the normal and corrupted mods that gives Energy Efficiency useless.

 

So this will not work. Fact.

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Play higher level content because then players won't be doing that all too often as Ultis lose their power the higher you get.

 

 

For me the Energy system is just fine and doesn't need changing. If you're gonna lower the energy cost you're just going to make Energy Aura mod so useful that no other mod is worth the hassle. Because of the low energy needed you will all of sudden be able to throw out your ulti when you please.

 

Not to mention you'll make the normal and corrupted mods that gives Energy Efficiency useless.

 

So this will not work. Fact.

Its at higher level content where this becomes a big issue with every Nova spamming Molecular Prime or every Saryn blasting out Miasma at every single group of enemies.

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Its at higher level content where this becomes a big issue with every Nova spamming Molecular Prime or every Saryn blasting out Miasma at every single group of enemies.

Nova helping the team is fine but I haven't seen any Saryn at all when I've played. But Nova is just helping the team and in a T4 void mission you pretty much needs it. You can try a T4 mission alone and see how well you do.

 

But most ulti spammers die out later out with the exception of the ones that got good ultis.

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Maybe have tiers of a power by holding down the particular power key, like say slash dash has 3 tiers of charge, you hold it for 1,2, or 3 seconds. It will build to the appropriate charge and will do more damage than say if you just pressed it, but cost more energy. This would work with all powers, maybe add addition effects, like duration, damage, range, proc chance, etc. This could effect how players handle higher levels when ultimates don't even phase crowds of enemies. It could even add potential for new mods.

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Solo/Duo Interception, especially mid-high level. Extra points if your ult is a utility one.

 

It would be pretty hard with your system in place.

 

Play higher level content because then players won't be doing that all too often as Ultis lose their power the higher you get.

 

 

For me the Energy system is just fine and doesn't need changing. If you're gonna lower the energy cost you're just going to make Energy Aura mod so useful that no other mod is worth the hassle. Because of the low energy needed you will all of sudden be able to throw out your ulti when you please.

 

Not to mention you'll make the normal and corrupted mods that gives Energy Efficiency useless.

 

So this will not work. Fact.

 

Lower quote addresses higher quote.

 

Addressing lower quote: As of right now, most ults (that haven't been nerfed to the ground or are completely useless in their base mechanics) trivialize starmap content. Yes, you can walk into a wave 60 T4 survival and ult spam doesn't work anymore, everyone and their dog knows that. That doesn't mean that that should be used as a metric to decide if something is horribly broken or not.

 

"If you're gonna lower the energy cost you're just going to make Energy Aura mod so useful that no other mod is worth the hassle." If you read the OP, you would've seen that the lowered energy cost only applies to lower ranked abilities, meaning if you actually have a lower energy cost not from efficiency mods, your ability effectiveness would be scaled down as well, so your point on that isn't valid.

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I don't know about you guys, but when I play defense or survival, I get energy orbs maybe once a minute. Really hurts when you're playing someone like valkyr as melee, and depend on a combination of your 1,2 and 3 to be mobile and destructive. A cooldown and energy regen system would completely break my play style.

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  • 6 years later...

Frames like Titania would be hit HARD. Energy Regen from a lot of sources is paused whilst abilities like razorwing are active and if passive energy Regen was a thing, AND it stopped during razorwing, then razorwing would be far less able to be up. Nice idea though.

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6 Years Later and this still hasn't been Fixed... 😱 !!!

29 minutes ago, (NSW)crashmat_104 said:

Frames like Titania would be hit HARD. Energy Regen from a lot of sources is paused whilst abilities like razorwing are active and if passive energy Regen was a thing, AND it stopped during razorwing, then razorwing would be far less able to be up. Nice idea though.

Rage/Hunter Adrenaline still works during Channeled Abilities so it's not like you're left completely out in the Cold.... Provided your Titania can actually take a beating that is...

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10 hours ago, Lutesque said:

6 Years Later and this still hasn't been Fixed...

This begs the question of if it's actually a problem.

The thread was started six years ago, which places it roughly in 2015, that could be as early as the first preview of Zephyr's first Deluxe Skin... (which still hasn't been released). So...

6 Years down the line from the writing of this thread, we can look at the things that were implemented since then:

Spoiler

In October 2015, actually we're 9 days away from the 6 year anniversary... DE released Arcane Energise. A function that restored (originally) 100 Energy on top of the 25 you got from an Orb.

In December 2015, DE released The Second Dream, implementing Zenurik's passive energy regen which, after roughly 3 minutes of being in mission, was activatable for 4 energy/second regen throughout the entire mission.

These two, combined, became the exact answer for what OP was originally asking for.

Since then, we've had Hunter Adrenaline, released in 2017, to be a straight upgrade to Rage by restoring more energy for damage taken as well as a niche additional passive.

Also in 2017 the Focus 2.5 system was released upgrading Zenurik to have both Energising Dash (which upgraded the energy generation from 4/s to 5/s, as well as making it instantly available to all players, rather than having to wait and only apply to the individual) and Energy Pulse (which means that energy pickups reward 50% more energy at base, as long as you're not using a Drain ability).

In 2018 Coaction Drift was released, making a squad using Energy Siphon able to regen more than 3 energy per second.

In 2020 Preparation was released, allowing players to start the mission with full Energy.

And, after the most recent Arcane update a year or so ago, Energise now restores 150 Energy at Max with a 60% chance of proc every 15 Seconds.

Then there's the Warframes.

Spoiler

Octavia passively regens energy for all players when casting abilities.

Harrow is a support frame that generates energy with his 3.

Nezha was reworked to cause Energy Orb drops with his 2.

Gara was given an Augment for her 3 (that works incredibly well on any frame with actual grouping CC since the Helminth allows it to be shared).

Garuda can generate personal energy infinitely with her ability combo.

Hildryn's 4 causes energy orbs to drop from enemies affected (and was used during the Orphix Venom event for powering Necramechs between waves).

Protea has a literal Energy Dispenser in her kit.

Lavos converts all Health and Energy orbs into 'universal' orbs that grant both Energy and Health.

And that's just the things since the OP posted.

All the methods of gaining Energy from before then are still here, like certain Warframe abilities.

Of course, the limitation of Drain abilities still exists, but there are an incredible amount of Arcanes in circulation due to some simply being a Nightwave reward early on, or due to Scarlet Spear having them as a farmable reward, or even just basic Eidolon Hunting, which is so much faster than the old Trials method. (If you jump on the Warframe.Market site, the price of individual Energise has dropped down to 60 Plat, 70 in some greedy cases, which is down from 100 each only a year ago. It may seem like a lot, and a player might eventually spend over 1200 Plat to get the full 21, but it's something a player can actually work towards.)

Mods that facilitate the Hunter Adrenaline method exist as well, giving frames that can exploit it extra armour, extra health and many frames have abilities that buff that further too.

When it comes down to it, if you grind in Warframe to get the necessary things... Energy is not scarce.

It's more like a slightly rare Ammo type. It's consistent enough that you can use it to power mods like Energy Conversion.

Edited by Birdframe_Prime
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18 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

This begs the question of if it's actually a problem

Why don't you ask the people who haven't unlocked Zenurik yet 🤔....

18 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

6 Years down the line from the writing of this thread, we can look at the things that were implemented since then

Indeed... 6 Years of Bandaids....

18 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Then there's the Warframes.

Even more Bandaids 😱 !!!

18 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Mods that facilitate the Hunter Adrenaline method exist as well, giving frames that can exploit it extra armour, extra health and many frames have abilities that buff that further too.

Right.... Let me just Take off a few my ability mods.... There... The issue is now Fixed... Now can use my now Rubbish Abilities All Day long and not have to worry about Energy... 😐.

18 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

When it comes down to it, if you grind in Warframe to get the necessary things... Energy is not scarce

Uhm... No.... Ammo is not Scarce.... Nullifiers are not Scarce... Disruptors and and Energy Leech Eximus Enemies are not Scarce.... But Energy.... Actual Bandaid Free Energy.... That is Scarce...

12 hours ago, CaveCricket48 said:

Why in the world was this thread necro'd

Because it's still relevant....

12 hours ago, CaveCricket48 said:

Anyways, energy is plentiful in the current state of warframe, I don't know what exactly I was thinking when I made this post but I disagree with my past self in regards to current content.

Or maybe you were Brain Washed 🤔 Six Years is plenty of Time for Stockholm Syndrome to set in....

Before you know it you'l start saying strange things like:  "The Harrow Systems Farm is perfectly fine." 😱

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7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Indeed... 6 Years of Bandaids....

Lute? Don't be silly about this.

Just like every. single. other. part of Warframe, the content does not change, only the level of that content. Energy Orbs drop with kills at a set rate, the only thing that changes over time is our ability to kill faster and faster as we level up our content so we can generate more overall,

At the starting levels of the game, energy orbs drop frequently enough for new players to use abilities sparingly, but the level of the enemies is not high enough for them to need more than that.

At later levels of the game, we gain all of these other methods of generating energy and because of the level of the enemies we actually use that Energy in order to keep up relevant kills/cc/healing etc.

Energy is ammo for our abilities, it's rarer than Shotgun ammo, but not as rare as Archgun ammo, as a drop. Which is why we have all these mods and functions to actually increase that.

And no, Warframe Abilities are not band-aids. They are literally designed to provide a support function at a greater-than-natural rate. Trinity's Blessing is not a band-aid for Health Orbs. Neither is her Energy Vampire a band-aid for Energy Orbs.

The same goes for every other Warframe with a support ability that causes additional drops or triggers additional regen.

Since this original post was made the same policy that applies to every other aspect of Warframe was put into effect; the more content you grind and the more 'stuff' you have, the more access you have to the things you want.

You want more Energy? Grind for it.

There is nothing at the start of the game, before you reach the point of gaining these other methods, like Mods, Warframes, Focus and Arcanes, that actually needs them. It's only after you gain those things that they start becoming necessary to any of the game.

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7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Lute? Don't be silly about this.

You Underestimate how much this issue bothers me.... 😐

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Energy Orbs drop with kills at a set rate

No they don't... They Drop Randomly whenever they do or Don't Feel Like it.... A Set Rate would be after every 10 Kills... Infact there's a Precept that does exactly that.

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

At the starting levels of the game, energy orbs drop frequently enough for new players to use abilities sparingly, but the level of the enemies is not high enough for them to need more than that

Perhaps it was that way for you.... 

At the Beginning of Both my Accounts I'm given exactly enough energy to Cast either my first Ability Twice or my 2nd & 3rd Ability once.... And that's all the energy Of would see for the rest of the mission.... That's what being a new player is like.... A few times I was paired with a new player and whenever they got Downed they Revived Themselves immediately.... And when I asked "Why didn't you let me help you up" they said "I needed the energy." 

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Energy is ammo for our abilities, it's rarer than Shotgun ammo, but not as rare as Archgun ammo, as a drop. Which is why we have all these mods and functions to actually increase that.

The fact that you compare Energy to Ammo just shows how much of a bandaid all methods of acquiring Energy is....

You Start With Max Ammo... you don't Start with Max Energy...

Every Enemy Always Drops Ammo.... You'd be lucky to see one out of Ten Enemies Drop a single 25 Energy Orb...

Ammo Doesn't need to be Modded for on Most Guns... Do I even have to say this one for Energy ? 😐

Ammo doesn't require you to use a Specific Focus School.... Zenurik.... Or Vazarin if you feel like using Rage....

That's the Current state of Energy.... No Matter how Abundant  it is... One way or another it costs you something that Ammo just doesn't. Why should we have to make Sacrifices just to use our Abilities ? 🤔

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

And no, Warframe Abilities are not band-aids. They are literally designed to provide a support function at a greater-than-natural rate. Trinity's Blessing is not a band-aid for Health Orbs. Neither is her Energy Vampire a band-aid for Energy Orbs

Trinity.... You mean the one nobody plays anymore.... Yeah sure I guess you're right.... However In The grand scheme of things she's the biggest Band Aid of all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯...

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The same goes for every other Warframe with a support ability that causes additional drops or triggers additional regen

All Band Aids....

Don't get me wrong.... I love Self Sustaining Warframe's and thanks to the Helminth my selection of Self Sustaining Warframe's have drastically increased.... But the fact that I have to do this in the first place just goes to show much of a band aid they really are.

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

There is nothing at the start of the game, before you reach the point of gaining these other methods, like Mods, Warframes, Focus and Arcanes, that actually needs them. It's only after you gain those things that they start becoming necessary to any of the game.

Sigh.... I really hated making this point because to me it's so Obvious.... People may not need Energy at The Start of the game. But they damn sure as hell want it... They want to use Their Abilities... Even if they Rubbish.... 

Not giving them Energy is going to give them the Impression that all Warframe's the same and the difference is mostly Cosmetic because all they can all do by Default is Hold Weapons.... I mean fine... If that how DE wants people to think Warframe is like that then so be it... It's just causing them to lose Potential Players....

I think I used my Abilities more Often in Apex Legends than I did in Warframe at the beginning....

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14 hours ago, Lutesque said:

No they don't... They Drop Randomly whenever they do or Don't Feel Like it

RNG is a set rate. It means that, while there is some scarcity in some places, it averages out to the same over time played.

14 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Perhaps it was that way for you.... 

At the Beginning of Both my Accounts I'm given exactly enough energy to Cast either my first Ability Twice or my 2nd & 3rd Ability once.... And that's all the energy Of would see for the rest of the mission....

I think this is where our experience differs.

I started and quickly got roped into a long-run Survival clan. The opening test to join was to go for an hour in T1 Void with the clan, and the first Rank of the Clan was gained when you could lead (not participate) a group through an hour's T4 survival, with the other players deliberately making rookie mistakes.

That taught me a heck of a lot of methods for energy management while I was still sub MR 6, and the players that taught me showed me exactly how the RNG for Drops of all kinds was working (at the time, since Energy Orb drops have been adjusted over time to favour the players since then, the same as them making Life Support towers in Survival drop every two minutes instead of getting incrementally longer and longer between drops to force a cap on the players...)

I don't just think Energy is ability Ammo, it's genuinely been treated as such by DE since at least 2014 (which is as far back as this account goes) based on how they've reworked abilities, based on the comments they made when they originally removed Cooldowns (which I remember from my original account) about how they didn't want players to wait, they wanted abilities to have the option of tactical deployment, or spam, and be used like 'artillery' (in the cases where that mattered) where you had this special reserve power to call on that was bigger than your big guns. Even though, since, creative direction has gone away from the more spam-based nuke abilities, and now likes combos, that still hasn't changed.

14 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Don't get me wrong.... I love Self Sustaining Warframe's

And again, different experience, different mind set. These aren't 'self sustain' warframes. They're Support warframes. They do a supportive service to the whole squad.

I literally could not have had the progress I've had in game without learning the actual value of group play, and how powerful a squad really is. Support Warframes exist, not as self-sustain, but as Squad sustain, and that is not a band-aid in a game built around a 4-player co-op.

Just because DE have allowed power creep to progress to the point that Solo is viable at all levels of play, doesn't invalidate the concept of Support abilities.

They are not band-aids, because the game is co-op, they are supportive abilities that allow players to have energy-hungry builds and be sustained by another player.

Forcing the Solo mind-set on this might make them seem like band-aids, and that's clear from how you're reacting to this, but they simply aren't because it's a co-op game at base.

14 hours ago, Lutesque said:

It's just causing them to lose Potential Players....

Every. Single. Game. That has any kind of Ability increase, levelling sytem or Experience gain... has a progression of power.

As I said to you before, the content doesn't change, only the levels, so the progression is in gaining the items, gear and functions that allow you to use your abilities more often.

The abilities are cool. You don't get to use them much in the early game not because DE 'aren't giving you energy', it's because you aren't able to kill the same number of enemies to get the energy.

But because abilities are cool, as you actually progress, and gain Gear, gain Mods, gain Warframes, unlock Functions... you can use them more. Until at a very, very early stage in the game (by proportion to the actual game content) you gain access to literal endless energy.

Take this completely out of context: If this were an MMO where the max rank was 30 and you had enough Points to max out a Tech Tree at level 30 in that game to have a complete Build, by comparison of progress through the content Warframe would allow you to max out that single tree by level 7.

Because the Content never changes, only levels up, the only Progression in this game is how much Stuff you get.

The Stuff is your progression. The unlocked Functions are Stuff. The Mods are Stuff. Even the other Warframes are Stuff.

Stuff allows you access to more Energy on demand, rather than waiting for the energy drops.

So that is why the base levels of Warframe has comparatively less energy than the higher levels.

The difference between the base levels and the higher levels of Warframe?

Enemies don't do enough damage to actually kill you when you're paying attention and actively playing. Weapons with bad builds can kill those enemies easily. You are succeeding, and succeeding well, even without your abilities. You genuinely don't need them even if you want them, and so Abilities actually are more highly appreciated because they're rarer to cast.

You may want to use your Abilities more, but that's behind the Progression. And every player (apart from the ones that come on here asking to have access to the Steel Path Shop before they've unlocked the Steel Path...) knows that if you actually Progress through a game, the things that were uncommon for you before just become easier and more common.

It's just the Progression of Stuff.

I will call you out on this 'It's causing them to lose potential players' because you're claiming, based on nothing at all, that players are leaving the game because they can't use Abilities as often as higher ranked players with all of the Stuff.

When, if anything, the Achievements (like the ones on Playstation) show that Warframe is losing thousands of accounts before they reach the 2 Hour mark. A mark where not a single player would know or care about the systems of Warframe, only whether it feels good to use the very basics.

They wouldn't know about the spam casting, they wouldn't know about ability combos, they wouldn't know about the more devastating uses of even the starter frames. They don't care about Energy, they don't care about drop rates, they don't care about how the levelling system works.

They get into the game, play through the opening quest maybe, and decide whether this is something they want to continue with based on the Content. Not based on this kind of argument we're having here.

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8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

RNG is a set rate. It means that, while there is some scarcity in some places, it averages out to the same over time played

No it doesn't.... It's literally just Random....

It's Suppose to average out... But that's how they get you... If the average is wrong then you just have to keep playing until it does.... In other words... It's a scam...

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

.

I started and quickly got roped into a long-run Survival clan. The opening test to join was to go for an hour in T1 Void with the clan, and the first Rank of the Clan was gained when you could lead (not participate) a group through an hour's T4 survival, with the other players deliberately making rookie mistakes

I had no Clan on my First Account (I had to create one)  and had a clan but played mostly Solo on my 2nd....

If you play in a group... Sure you will have Some Energy.... Hey you might even get to cast your 4 if your lucky.... But when playing Solo it's literally just twice and then it's over....

Also your Clan is weird... 🤔

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

I don't just think Energy is ability Ammo, it's genuinely been treated as such by DE since at least 2014 (which is as far back as this account goes) based on how they've reworked abilities, based on the comments they made when they originally removed Cooldowns (which I remember from my original account) about how they didn't want players to wait, they wanted abilities to have the option of tactical deployment, or spam, and be used like 'artillery' (in the cases where that mattered) where you had this special reserve power to call on that was bigger than your big guns. Even though, since, creative direction has gone away from the more spam-based nuke abilities, and now likes combos, that still hasn't changed

Not sure what the point all this is... This says nothing about the Practicality or the lack there of Acquiring Energy...

9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And again, different experience, different mind set. These aren't 'self sustain' warframes. They're Support warframes. They do a supportive service to the whole squad.

Semantics...

9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

I literally could not have had the progress I've had in game without learning the actual value of group play, and how powerful a squad really is. Support Warframes exist, not as self-sustain, but as Squad sustain, and that is not a band-aid in a game built around a 4-player co-op.

You do realise Warframe's matchmaking is rubbish right ?

Half of the Time you wind up doing missions alone because the game only takes all of 3 Seconds to search for an available sessions... And if by Some Miracle you do find a group you cant synergize your Load Outs to provide this Support you're so fond of....

This why things like 4 Chroma's in Eidolon Bounties or 3 Trinitys in ESO happen from time to time....

Your Argument is far too dependent on a System that can't support it. 

9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

They are not band-aids, because the game is co-op, they are supportive abilities that allow players to have energy-hungry builds and be sustained by another player.

Apex Legends is also Co-Op but you aren't completely locked out of using your Abilities just because you don't have one specific Legend who had literally no other reason for Existing beyond being every one else's Battery....

If you're argument is that Evey Group must have a Trinity then guess what... That's a Textbook Bandaid... 

To realise how dumb this is... Imagine if it was the same story with Ammo....then Every Group would have to bring Protea along just so. They can use their Guns....

If that sounds dumb then congratulations now you know why Energy Management is so irritating in Warframe.... Among other things.

9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Forcing the Solo mind-set on this might make them seem like band-aids, and that's clear from how you're reacting to this, but they simply aren't because it's a co-op game at base.

It's not just a Solo Problem....

If your in a Group that also means one of you has to play Trinity whether you like or not if you want to have energy....  She's literally just a band Aid....

I could you not when I got recruited for a 2 Hour Survival I was told to play Trinity whether I liked her or not.... Is this sort of Behavior you want for Warframe ?  🤔

9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

The abilities are cool. You don't get to use them much in the early game not because DE 'aren't giving you energy', it's because you aren't able to kill the same number of enemies to get the energy

You do realise Exterminate Missions make you kill all the enemies in the mission right ? 🤨.... If energy is scare there then clearly your Theory about RNG being a "set rate" is borked because Ive done many Exterminations with Guns only because Arcane Energize wouldn't Proc or had absolutely nothing to Proc off of.... Yeah you heard me right... Even when using a band aid the game still refuses to cough up Energy.....

9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Every. Single. Game. That has any kind of Ability increase, levelling sytem or Experience gain... has a progression of power.

As I said to you before, the content doesn't change, only the levels, so the progression is in gaining the items, gear and functions that allow you to use your abilities more often.

The abilities are cool. You don't get to use them much in the early game not because DE 'aren't giving you energy', it's because you aren't able to kill the same number of enemies to get the energy.

But because abilities are cool, as you actually progress, and gain Gear, gain Mods, gain Warframes, unlock Functions... you can use them more. Until at a very, very early stage in the game (by proportion to the actual game content) you gain access to literal endless energy.

Take this completely out of context: If this were an MMO where the max rank was 30 and you had enough Points to max out a Tech Tree at level 30 in that game to have a complete Build, by comparison of progress through the content Warframe would allow you to max out that single tree by level 7.

Because the Content never changes, only levels up, the only Progression in this game is how much Stuff you get.

The Stuff is your progression. The unlocked Functions are Stuff. The Mods are Stuff. Even the other Warframes are Stuff.

Stuff allows you access to more Energy on demand, rather than waiting for the energy drops.

So that is why the base levels of Warframe has comparatively less energy than the higher levels.

The difference between the base levels and the higher levels of Warframe?

Enemies don't do enough damage to actually kill you when you're paying attention and actively playing. Weapons with bad builds can kill those enemies easily. You are succeeding, and succeeding well, even without your abilities. You genuinely don't need them even if you want them, and so Abilities actually are more highly appreciated because they're rarer to cast.

You may want to use your Abilities more, but that's behind the Progression. And every player (apart from the ones that come on here asking to have access to the Steel Path Shop before they've unlocked the Steel Path...) knows that if you actually Progress through a game, the things that were uncommon for you before just become easier and more common.

It's just the Progression of Stuff.

I will call you out on this 'It's causing them to lose potential players' because you're claiming, based on nothing at all, that players are leaving the game because they can't use Abilities as often as higher ranked players with all of the Stuff.

When, if anything, the Achievements (like the ones on Playstation) show that Warframe is losing thousands of accounts before they reach the 2 Hour mark. A mark where not a single player would know or care about the systems of Warframe, only whether it feels good to use the very basics.

They wouldn't know about the spam casting, they wouldn't know about ability combos, they wouldn't know about the more devastating uses of even the starter frames. They don't care about Energy, they don't care about drop rates, they don't care about how the levelling system works.

They get into the game, play through the opening quest maybe, and decide whether this is something they want to continue with based on the Content. Not based on this kind of argument we're having here.

I'm sorry... I just did 6 Void Storm Survivals back to back to Forma Bonewidow 3 Times and Void Rig Once.... So I'm not going to read all this.... I just don't have the energy.... 🤢

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19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

If the average is wrong then you just have to keep playing until it does.... In other words... It's a scam...

When the average number of kills per mission is in the hundreds, and the drop chance of an energy orb from a standard enemy is (tested by the community) to be around 10%, that's not really a scam.

And, as I've repeatedly said, when you can go into a mission and kill thousands with the upgraded Stuff, then you're going to get hundreds of Energy Orbs on average. Even if it's on the low end, thousands of kills nets hundreds of Orbs.

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Also your Clan is weird...

It was. It was a fun one while it lasted. Then (because this was back at the end of the Solar Rail system) the Clan Leader got greedy and wanted to expand, so our little group of top-tier dispersed to create brand new Clans for an actual Alliance. That lasted for about a year or so before the influx of players inevitably brought in the ones that ruined things... so I moved on. Ran a little retirement clan for a few people, and finally joined the clan for that Xenogelion, the one who does the TennoClock Warframe podcast.

Clans are weird.

And yeah, your very, very solo experience with that may have completely jaded you on this topic, I would say.

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Not sure what the point all this is... This says nothing about the Practicality or the lack there of Acquiring Energy...

You contested the point of Energy being Ammo, I provided more information to support it being Ammo.

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

You do realise Warframe's matchmaking is rubbish right ?

It doesn't change the fact that Warframe is built around co-op.

Problems with matchmaking don't change the fundamental design, and they don't change the goal of how things within it are balanced, such as the energy economy. Game is built for four players, if the play session is going to be serious enough to need high levels of energy supply, take a support frame.

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Semantics...

Important definitions.

Them being Support changes the actual role within the game, and means that, while Solo this is a self-sustain option, but while Co-op (again, designed around that) they're fundamentally more important to the other players.

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Apex Legends is also Co-Op but you aren't completely locked out of using your Abilities just because you don't have one specific Legend who had literally no other reason for Existing beyond being every one else's Battery....

How are you locked out of your abilities if you don't have a support frame here? There are so many options for energy... if you actually get the Stuff. If you Progress through the Stuff.

The support frames are part of the Progression of Stuff. Which you purposely skipped the explanation of.

My argument is not that every group should run Trinity, it's that groups that want to specialise in a certain method of play should run Trinity. Or Harrow. Or Nezha. Hildryn maybe. Lavos even.

The point being that if you want to be energy-inefficient, you can be. You have all of these methods of gaining energy from the Progression of Stuff.

Oh, and just to point out: If you want to run an Archgun through a mission, you can, but you run out of Ammo pretty quick. There are Warframes that have abilities that directly provide Ammo for Archguns; Protea and Lavos.

That's the comparison. You want to play a certain way, you take the Stuff to support it.

If you don't take the Stuff, you'll have a harder time supporting it, and won't be able to as easily.

Fun part is, you are never actually locked out of that method of play, it's just harder to do.

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

You do realise Exterminate Missions make you kill all the enemies in the mission right ? 🤨.... If energy is scare there then clearly your Theory about RNG being a "set rate" is borked because Ive done many Exterminations with Guns only because Arcane Energize wouldn't Proc or had absolutely nothing to Proc off of.... Yeah you heard me right... Even when using a band aid the game still refuses to cough up Energy.....

I literally do not, and will not believe you on this unless you provide me of video evidence of not one single Energy Orb dropping from an Exterminate of more than 80-100 enemies.

Do it. I absolutely want to see you, or anyone, do it.

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I'm sorry... I just did 6 Void Storm Survivals back to back to Forma Bonewidow 3 Times and Void Rig Once...

Ahh, that explains the other thread.

Now... the question is... why?

I mean, sure, you get the other rewards from the Void Storm, but why not just go to a Vault on Deimos (difficulty level of your preference), kill the Mech and then take advantage of the literally endless spawns of Infested there to allow you to rank up incredibly quickly? As always with Warframe, while the highest Affinity drops per target come at the higher levels, the highest Affinity over time spent is found by picking the missions with the highest amount of spawns per minute. So the quickest way to level a Mech is to go where the most enemies will spawn in the smallest space, and where you won't be bothered by outside problems (like timers, life support and so on).

I will especially recommend that this weekend, because it's a double-affinity weekend. Give that a try if you haven't already.

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DE could seriously just remove the energy system entirely.  What would it change?  Honestly?
What does the energy system actually add in terms of gameplay, anyway?
People already have infinite energy.  They already spam their abilities as much as they want.  The game has already been warped to compensate for this.

If they tossed the energy system out and committed, they could properly balance their game around the idea of people always casting abilities.
Like having damage abilities comparable with weapons, or having diminishing returns on Crowd Control, or adding a kryptonite system to invincibility, or improving the AI against Invisibility.

With diminish returns on CC, you can wind down enemy damage since their damage will have a higher uptime than 0.05 seconds that it takes for someone to perma-CC the entire room.
And since you're expecting players with big AoEs to always blast their AoEs, you can balance damage and enemy health so they die at an appropriate speed that is greater than 0.05 seconds so they actually have a chance to interact with the player.
Better AI against invisibility means Invisibility is now about strategy and positioning, so it's a different way to play the game and isn't just purely a survival mechanic against absurd enemy damage; enemies have more chance to apply damage, so their damage can be wound down yet again.
Kryptonite-style invincibility turns the ability into a mode-switch, where instead of managing your Health you're managing some gameplay element or resource that fuels/enables your invincibility, making it a different way to play the game and isn't purely a survival mechanic against absurd enemy damage; can introduce more enemy gimmicks that target invincibility and not everyone.

Makes everything a lot more predictable, and if you can predict what's going to happen, you can fine-tune the player's experience and foster the fun elements.
Instead of just waiting for players to break something and then slathering it in band-aids 'til it stands up on its own.

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