What Happened To The End Game?

[OmegaDragotroid]

As a rank 17 veteran who has mastered (or soon will master) every weapon currently available in the game, I've come to one frightening realization: there is nothing left for me to do in this game.

 

I'm falling out of love with Warframe just as quickly as I fell in love with it, and that's frightening considering how much money I've devoted to this game. I don't regret spending the money, but it's sad to see it fall to uselessness now that I'm not playing as often. What I want to know is what happened to the end game that has been talked about on many occasions but has never come to pass?

 

Dark Sectors was a start, or so it has been said, but they are a far cry from any true end game in my opinion. Dark Sectors are a botched abortion of a game mode where the baby has come out mangled and still breathing. Somehow. And yet, they are STILL more needless PVP in a game whose model is all about team cooperation in taking down the baddies and keeping balance in space. Why have Dark Sectors been morphed into an extension of PVP? It's the PVP that makes me avoid the conflicts like the plague, and the taxes on the nodes out of conflicts that makes me avoid that part like the plague.

 

Truth be told, we need a better end game than what's been provided. We need a real reason to use our 5 forma somas and boltor primes. We need a reason to bring our flashy primed warframes with 4 formas and all the customization and best builds to the arena. Something that will keep us veteran players wanting to play. The week-long events are good for starters, but once you get the top prize, it loses its appeal. Sometimes before you reach the top prize. So here's my proposition for an end game. Raids.

 

Seriously hard, seriously large raids. Think World of Warcraft 10-man raids here. I don't know if it's within DE's ability to code a mission for such a large squad, but just think of the potential for vet players it would have. A boss so powerful...so HARD that it requires more than four tenno to dispatch. That would require you to bring you max power strength Nova and her Soma to the party. Perhaps it could even be done like it is in World of Tanks: 3 (or as in Warframe 4) player platoons matched up in a team of up to 15 (or 20 for squads of 4) players total. Maybe open up a special Raid channel on the MM options so that you can find friends and join their raids or coordinate your teams like in WoT skirmishes.

 

Just something to think about. I'm bored of the game now that I've done it all. Give us something epic, DE.

[Elvang]

While that would be interesting as far as bosses go, those type of bosses generally wouldn't work in Warframe because of the kind of debuffs and abilities we have access to. It'd end up being a giant bullet sponge with numerous invincibility phases and tons of immunities to procs and abilities.

[GottaGoFast]

I'm Rank 17 and I don't care about end game. I want more game.

[APBladeX]

"2014 will be the year of endgame."

-Dark sectors

That's about it.

[Cleesus]

Why do some people think raids are appealing as an end game or at all?

[Kayco38]

"2014 will be the year of endgame."

-Dark sectors

That's about it.

and warframe pvp is derp so i can even say nothing 

[Neocyberman]

Why do some people think raids are appealing as an end game or at all?

I don't but this is coming from someone level 8 going on 9. Still its something. And more importantly its got the traits of whats missing in warframe's endgame. Teamwork is not needed outside of Excavation. Enemy difficulty comes from the existing scaling and bosses have a whole other issue list.

 

 

I'm Rank 17 and I don't care about end game. I want more game.

I don't think I understand what you mean by this. Elaborate.

 

I don't mean to be presumptuous but I think there is a communication divide here.

[bejuizb]

I'm Rank 17 and I don't care about end game. I want more game.

Very well said. I'm of the same camp. Endgame for Warframe would translate to bosses with millions upon millions of hitpoints and damage figures. And a certain other AAA title developed by Bungie does the same, and people don't consider that endgame. 

 

Why do some people think raids are appealing as an end game or at all?

Because MMO logic. The goal is to make everything in epic proportions to give some meaning to OP gear.

[TheErebus.]

 

I don't think I understand what you mean by this. Elaborate.

 

I don't mean to be presumptuous but I think there is a communication divide here.

He is saying:

I don't want something that is just something to do when you're done with the game.

I want more things to do in the game to keep me entertained.

 

Which I agree with, especially this "focus system" I keep hearing about.

Passive abilities…ugh

[Neocyberman]

He is saying:

I don't want something that is just something to do when you're done with the game.

I want more things to do in the game to keep me entertained.

 

Which I agree with, especially this "focus system" I keep hearing about.

Passive abilities…ugh

If this is what he means I can agree. Definitely. I still want something along the lines of increased need for teamwork, a reason to use particularly strong weapons or out min maxed builds, challenge derived from enemy behavior rather than the scaling.

 

BUT

 

Holy lord do I not want what the focus system is going to be. From what we know of it, it seems to be one time abilities you use after gaining points from using maxed gear. That isnt endgame, that isnt challenge. It just leads me to think that missions meant to keep us playing will always remain the way they are. Infinite scaling and boring with our little focus powers to help us push through.

 

Also... more content is good. But content that exists detached from our current progress is not endgame and a little frustrating. Like how kubrows and sentinels have mods that are copies of warframe ones but you have to grind for them. I hope that DE will keep their word on how "Introducing endless grind is not what we want to do".

[Xaelon]

There really isn't one tbh.  If you've run out of content that you want to play then I would go play something else for a while.

 

Update 15 is around the corner.  When that drops there should be more things for everyone to do. 

 

I think too many people are expecting Warframe to turn into some kind of MMORPG when it's more or less a MOAG (multiplayer online action game) with light RPG elements.

 

I've thought about what Warframe's "endgame" should be and I can't figure it out. 

 

Just something to think about. I'm bored of the game now that I've done it all. Give us something epic, DE.

 

I would love to see what you suggested and have a much larger level involving 8 tenno, but I want to say that DE has said in the past that for some reason they can't have more than 4 players per level.  If someone can confirm/disprove that with quotes from DE then feel free to do so.

 

It wouldn't involve more than 4 tenno, but something that would work with the game's current structure would be a multi-part multiple mission quest chain.  Similar to what DE already has in place for Mirage.  Only instead of collecting Warframe parts you'd be assembling something needed to access the mission where the boss was hiding.  The difference between this and the beacon grind, is that the parts of this thing would be guaranteed drops that would create a non-expendable item like the Dojo Key.  The challenge would be in making it through each quest mission to get the pieces

 

If you've played other MMOs where you have to get "keyed" before you can access raid content then you should understand what I'm suggesting.

 

Once you've done the chain you're now able to access the boss's lair whenever you want.  But instead of having it be like a normal raid dungeon they could borrow from FFXIV:ARR in the form of making it a "Trial" style encounter.  Trials are encounters if where you only fight a boss. 

 

For example, if the Lephantis fight was changed to be a "Trial" players would spawn into the level inside the hallway outside the boss's room, enter the room, kill the boss and leave.

 

The main issue with making content like this, is if the boss encounter isn't interesting and well designed then it gets old pretty quickly.  The boss at the end of a multi-part quest chain like this would need to be MUCH more complicated than any boss we've seen out of DE to date.  DE would also need to tune the boss to actually pose a challenge for players sporting weapons that deal top damage.  As an alternate method DE could make the boss's mission locked to a certain conclave rating that way players wouldn't be able to bring their 5 forma'd BFG and just nuke the boss, or if they absolutely MUST have that uber gun, they get to have a very fragile warframe or other such drawbacks.

 

Maybe they could have Tactical Assassination missions where it's only possible to enter the mission IF you have a low enough conclave raiting.  They could also make it so that the Tactical bosses have new mechanics or such similar to what happens in other MMOs where low level dungeons are reworked so that they're actually difficult for high level players.

 

They could go one better and introduce a currency system with these style of missions too.  Where you would get X# of Lotus Medals per mission clear (harder missions give more medals).  Which could you could use in the market to purchase special cosmetic gear to display your skill. 

[ClockworkSpectre]

Seriously hard, seriously large raids. Think World of Warcraft 10-man raids here. I don't know if it's within DE's ability to code a mission for such a large squad, but just think of the potential for vet players it would have. A boss so powerful...so HARD that it requires more than four tenno to dispatch. That would require you to bring you max power strength Nova and her Soma to the party. Perhaps it could even be done like it is in World of Tanks: 3 (or as in Warframe 4) player platoons matched up in a team of up to 15 (or 20 for squads of 4) players total. Maybe open up a special Raid channel on the MM options so that you can find friends and join their raids or coordinate your teams like in WoT skirmishes.

 

Just something to think about. I'm bored of the game now that I've done it all. Give us something epic, DE.

Not going to happen in a peer hosted game.  We already get to see how crappy it can get in dark sectors with 7 players connected to one host.  I they bit the bullet and gave us dedicated servers it would be different.  But I don't think it will ever happen.  DE doesn't make nearly as much money as World of Tanks(which has dedicated servers), in part because their free to play models and in game progression are different, meaning I don't think DE could afford to give use dedicated servers.

[Davoodoo]

Why do some people think raids are appealing as an end game or at all?

Well theres also pvp and if you dont want to farm these you can always farm regular missions.

 

Wow got raids, 5 mans, open world bosses, open world farming, bgs, arenas, rbgs, they even tried open world pvp but it didnt work.

We pretty much have open world farming without open world and broken bgs. Nice.

 

Even if you dont like raids there are ppl who like those and thats reason enough to make them and if you dont like them you can still grind regular missions like mentioned above.

 

It really pains me to see forum moderator asking for less content.

 

 

Not going to happen in a peer hosted game.  We already get to see how crappy it can get in dark sectors with 7 players connected to one host.  I they bit the bullet and gave us dedicated servers it would be different.  But I don't think it will ever happen.  DE doesn't make nearly as much money as World of Tanks(which has dedicated servers), in part because their free to play models and in game progression are different, meaning I don't think DE could afford to give use dedicated servers.

Even heroes and generals have dedicated servers(and S#&$ty netcode but whatever) and they are pretty much indie and doesnt make probably half of what warframe gets.

 

Even then ive seen games supporting more than 4 ppl on p2p and working decently and even then you dont need more than 4 ppl to make endgame, just make something for 4 man squad.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Davoodoo

[MDRLOz]

RAIDS

I personally don't get the appeal of raids. Also the belief this will bring something special is a little confusing. It would be a complete change of direction from the current model of play. 

 

The point of a raid is that you should fail repeatedly until you understand all the key mechanics that go into that particular fight. 

 

Wiping in war-frame is something that does not happens that often in the current game and changing the game around this would be a subtle change in the way we run levels; as once you "wipe" the whole level resets. In a wow raid the level is still there in the same state you left it and you can attempt the boss encounter again right away. 

 

GENERAL ENDGAME

As for endgame in general. I am probably going to be making some big threads about this in a couple of months time. Now we have had some amazing content released to us this year (melee system, dark sectors, T4 keys, liset, archwing), however we were promised that this would be "the year of endgame". We have had very little progress on anything approaching an endgame. 
 

Darksectors are a good pvp endgame but lack an overarching reason. Why control the a node? More credits? More credits for what? More credits to control more nodes? It lacks an overarching reason/reward structure other that its there so do it. 

 

We were promised two other possible endgame projects. Focus and proxy war have been slow to materialize at all. 

 

For those who don't know; the focus system is like paragon levels in diablo where you can level a new way after you finish the normal "base" leveling. Despite the fact that this was supposed to be one of the first projects to appear it has been continually pushed back and DE keep redesigning what it is and what it gives. 

The Proxy war is supposed to be factions where we gain favour with them to gain reward. Now the first part of this might be appearing with the sigil system. However we don't know what that will be like till we get it.

[BrazilianJoe]

I think that there only one place for 'endgame', and that relies squarely on PvP, because tehre is no other way players can test their skills better than against a human opponent. 

 

But even though DE sort-of always has PvP in mind when the game was created, it was mroe or less bolted-on. 

 

A fairly large amount of development was poured on PvE and the gameplay does not lend itself well to PvP. 

 

Warframes skills are non-counterable press X to win. When you are animation-locked or stun-locked in a game with fast-paced action and relatively low HP like Warframe, you are pretty much toast. 

 

Dark Sectors are in a total #failstate right now. I may occasionally play conflicts when there is a large amount of credits rolling, but only if I am in a very good mood to put up with the bugs, and usually I only do it after an update to see if matters improved. 

 

There isn't a good, fair esport ladder/championship to challenge dark sectors, there are no dedicated servers to ensure quality gameplay, and it is not balanced by a 6.02x10^23 long shot. And there are not enough Dark Sectors.

 

Yet all these are solvable problems. After DE puts Archwing out, they should look at what worked and what didn't on DS and do a total rework. 

 

It will certainly require rethinking all ability effects on Warframes. tHey can be the same effects they have on plain enemies. PvP must be skill based, not 'press X to win'.

[Neocyberman]

 

Darksectors are a good pvp endgame but lack an overarching reason. Why control the a node? More credits? More credits for what? More credits to control more nodes? It lacks an overarching reason/reward structure other that its there so do it. 

 

 

This, so much this and several other things:

 

-Generally poor PvP balance bordering on suggesting a poor understanding of how frame abilities interact with each other [Ash pre nerf/After nerf, Rhino, Frost, all frames really]

 

-Base game mechanics (Procs, knockdown, status, weapon stats) not designed for a PvP environment and they don't change much when PvP starts [The driving force behind some CC abilities being as powerful as they are]

 

-Lack of improved UI and a general information infrastructure to make decisions players make matter [Tax history, ingame representation of levels, tutorials all missing and still needed]

 

-Lack of a base level of reward beyond making a drop of change in a sea of Dark Sector due to the incentive to not pay players from dark sector clans [Why pay if you can get away with not paying because the other side isnt paying, why play if you don't get paid]

 

-Does not have basic infrastructure necessary to ensure a fair playing field [No dedicated servers, no fixed turret points]

Edited October 13, 2014 by Neocyberman

[Phoenix86]

afaik the problem with squads > 4 player is because of connection...

 

no dedicated server :/

Edited October 13, 2014 by Phoenix86

[HAYABU5A]

welcome to reality

its a video game, just a form of entertainment, its impossible for it to please you forever and always so its not the games fault 

maybe find another game or some other form of entertainment