The Use Of Exploits To Overcome Exploits.

[Etsoree]

I would expect that using exploits would have a chance of getting in trouble from DE for anyone involved in those exploits .

 

This. Anyone using exploits can get in trouble and ultimately have a slap to the face on their account.

[Cat_Jam]

If you use the hand, you're really just being mean.

if you use the water, it's very unlikely you will succeed. (not impossible, but, quite a few odds need to be altered)

I used to PvP as honorable as possible.

No broken mods.

No overpowered weapons.

No bugs.

No exploits.

And by god was it hard to fight the meta on this one, 2.3:1 k/d with 3,500 kills.

It's more than possible when you're the water.

 

I've quit now. It's no fun when every time I join Pluto Conclave I encounter Valkyrs with Reflex Guard, Boltor Prime, Marelok and Dual Ichors. It's broken, unbalanced and completely ignored.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

The problem is that the very things you described are being done, and by groups that have far more resources to throw around.

Even if you took 1 node, when one of the clans that were doing the chain lockdown wars attacks you wont have a chance to win. They will take back the node since they will be able to offer 100k battlepay from their high taxes while you wont be able to offer anything that competes. Then it is right back to stupidly high taxes and them doing lockdown wars.

What is the point of trying to fix the problem ourselves, if DE won't fix the core problem?

If DE went and removed tax system from Dark Sectors (and removed upkeep from the towers) then owning a Dark Sector would be a matter of personal pride and ego. The Dark Sectors would be like advertising. People will fight to wave their flag around and you would not have the shadow alliance controlling everything since there would be no profit in it at all.

Or just change how taxes function...

But yes, you detail the major issues. There is no political system in Warframe contrary to popular belief, sadly.

Edited October 13, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[Cleesus]

is there some place that DE has actually stated that any of what's been discussed here is an exploit? seems unlikely considering DE knew this would happen, that there would be a lot of ways to lock down sectors...unless of course you're trying to say DE had no idea...that they really didn't think DS conflicts through before implementing them...

Im just speaking of exploits in general, only thing you can do about the stuff in DS is to wait and see if anything happens

[LadyScootaloo]

You and I use a very different definition of the word 'fix.'

 

I should have made this clear in my previous post but I'll just say it now anyway - I could care less what any attacker/defender is doing to bypass the content of he game and exploit their way to victory. The fact of the matter is, there are gaping holes in the system that only DE can address. You can't make this an issue about player conduct, because no matter where you go or what you do, there will ALWAYS be someone trying to juke the system. Period. Even the most honorable of clans/alliances are guilty of things.

 

And as far as any sort of punishment is concerned, that's up to DE's discretion of course. But it's clear to see from the past that reporting such behavior goes largely unpunished. Why? That's also up to DE's discretion. 

 

You can change a few 1's and 0's, but you can't change a group, culture, or ideal. Or at least, one of those is a lot easier than the other. Only DE can fix these issues.

 

Thankfully, what I am after is not about the culture, group or ideal.

I am here to consider a change in the 1's and 0's.

[Sebastianx]

Yes, everything is acceptable, Game of Rails.

I would expect that using exploits would have a chance of getting in trouble from DE for anyone involved in those exploits .

As I said, everything is acceptable, that means if people exploit something it's because DE didn't fix that something, don't blame the exploiters, blame the devs. It is incredibly stupid to punish exploiters when all they do is use the tools AVAILABLE IN GAME to achieve said goal.

[Semshol]

In all honesty. Don't talk, just do.

 

It's not cool to talk, seriously.

 

Just hatch your big plan, do it, let it work and then the tyrants counter and the cycle starts.

 

But at least there will be a cycle.

[Cat_Jam]

In all honesty. Don't talk, just do.

 

It's not cool to talk, seriously.

 

Just hatch your big plan, do it, let it work and then the tyrants counter and the cycle starts.

 

But at least there will be a cycle.

It's impossible to "do".

 

Y'see, this is why we talk, to spread awareness of how broken the system is. In hope that it will be fixed soon(™).

 

The monopoly alliances are dominating the system, raking in taxes. There's no way any small alliance/clan could combat a 100,000 battle pay with a 2,000,000,000 total. It's broken.

[(PSN)MobiusN749]

It's impossible to "do".

 

Y'see, this is why we talk, to spread awareness of how broken the system is. In hope that it will be fixed soon(™).

 

The monopoly alliances are dominating the system, raking in taxes. There's no way any small alliance/clan could combat a 100,000 battle pay with a 2,000,000,000 total. It's broken.

Well there are a few simple things that can be done for that one.

-A limit on how high you can put the taxes

-A limit of two active rails per alliance or clan (this includes being deployed for conflict)

-A penalty to the battle pay offer relative to how much money the group has

[SuperTechmarine]

When you play the Game of Thrones; you win, or you die. There is no middle ground.

Edited October 13, 2014 by SuperTechmarine

[Magnar21]

DS conflicts are broken and unenjoyable most of the time. as a result, I rarely fight as there is little that is worth that level of pain.

[SmokinDevil]

Go for it. You can do something about it. Most just want to sit back and let mommy handle it. 

[Buzkyl]

Go for it. You can do something about it. Most just want to sit back and let mommy handle it. 

 

 

I'd actually see someone actually honestly "do something" about it.

 

 

Like it was so easy

Like it has never been attempted before

Because people complained because they haven't tried before in the past.

 

 

Like DE takes no fault for systems like these being in place.

[LadyScootaloo]

It's impossible to "do".

 

Y'see, this is why we talk, to spread awareness of how broken the system is. In hope that it will be fixed soon(™).

 

The monopoly alliances are dominating the system, raking in taxes. There's no way any small alliance/clan could combat a 100,000 battle pay with a 2,000,000,000 total. It's broken.

 

There is a fairly simple method to drain their reserves by the first hour or so.

I never intended to rely on battlepay to win.

There is no limit on how many attacks can be made. This is easily abused.

Edited October 14, 2014 by LadyScootaloo

[LadyScootaloo]

To those who mention to 'just do it' rather than talk about it...

I really do not feel the inclination to do any of this.

I'm perfectly fine sitting idly by while someone else takes up the reigns.

 

I have not the time to afford for the plans I have in mind.

[Arlayn]

I would expect that using exploits would have a chance of getting in trouble from DE for anyone involved in those exploits .

except none of these are really exploits considering this is an all out war between players with no real rules. Then again I haven't played the PVP Dark Sector. I only when it was Mobile defense.

[Buzkyl]

There is a fairly simple method to drain their reserves by the first hour or so.

I never intended to rely on battlepay to win.

There is no limit on how many attacks can be made. This is easily abused.

 

 

Draining billions of credits worth of reserve in the first hour?

 

 

Now this i'd like to see.

 

The forum is only a small section, the majority of the game likely couldn't care about the politics as long as they get a high BP,

[LadyScootaloo]

Draining billions of credits worth of reserve in the first hour?

 

 

Now this i'd like to see.

 

The forum is only a small section, the majority of the game likely couldn't care about the politics as long as they get a high BP,

 

The true case is that the majority of the players don't even look at the dark sector.

There's a small flaw in the way the battlepay works.

 

It will be impossible to drain 1billion within an hour without an excessive number of players.

It is however, possible to drain a substantial amount.

It also varies on how much they put per run.

 

However, even if they place it, it wouldn't stop the amount of fake defenders we send in.

If every attacker group we send only attacks blindly and ignores defense, they'll either get wiped in seconds(real defenders) or take the core almost instantly(staged defenders).

 

Say I have a group of 200. (this is a pretty low amount, all things considered)

If I send in 80(20 squads) defenders and use the remaining 120(30 squads) to attack...

What are the chances that out of the 30 squads, at least 10 of them will encounter fake defenders?

Fairly high, I would say. (ignoring the aspects of matchmaking that I will go into detail some other time.)

If we assume that at least 8 squads will run into one of the fake defender groups and take 5m to rush through the whole system unstopped.

8 x 60/5 = 96 successful attacks per hour. This is assuming the 'low average' number'.

Of course, I'm ignoring other factors like grinding weight and so on.

 

 

The being said, all it takes to send a team of fake defenders is to assign ONE person with 3 afkers in his team to keep re-entering without doing anything. It's much easier for us to attack than it is for them to defend.

 

 

 

Draining

- The fact our attackers, if they realize the opponent is real, will just charge blindly and attempt to take the core without any concern for self defence will usually get them wiped by bladestorm or anything at all. 

- I would put less work into this seeing as the 'fake defenders' actually speed up the attack.

 

 

edit : There are definitely loopholes left in this plan that no one has mentioned, of course.

I can't bring them up because it would be too easily exploited by either side.

Edited October 14, 2014 by LadyScootaloo

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

The true case is that the majority of the players don't even look at the dark sector.

There's a small flaw in the way the battlepay works.

 

It will be impossible to drain 1billion within an hour without an excessive number of players.

It is however, possible to drain a substantial amount.

It also varies on how much they put per run.

 

However, even if they place it, it wouldn't stop the amount of fake defenders we send in.

If every attacker group we send only attacks blindly and ignores defense, they'll either get wiped in seconds(real defenders) or take the core almost instantly(staged defenders).

 

Say I have a group of 200. (this is a pretty low amount, all things considered)

If I send in 80(20 squads) defenders and use the remaining 120(30 squads) to attack...

What are the chances that out of the 30 squads, at least 10 of them will encounter fake defenders?

Fairly high, I would say. (ignoring the aspects of matchmaking that I will go into detail some other time.)

If we assume that at least 8 squads will run into one of the fake defender groups and take 5m to rush through the whole system unstopped.

8 x 60/5 = 96 successful attacks per hour. This is assuming the 'low average' number'.

Of course, I'm ignoring other factors like grinding weight and so on.

 

 

The being said, all it takes to send a team of fake defenders is to assign ONE person with 3 afkers in his team to keep re-entering without doing anything. It's much easier for us to attack than it is for them to defend.

 

 

 

Draining

- The fact our attackers, if they realize the opponent is real, will just charge blindly and attempt to take the core without any concern for self defence will usually get them wiped by bladestorm or anything at all. 

- I would put less work into this seeing as the 'fake defenders' actually speed up the attack.

 

 

edit : There are definitely loopholes left in this plan that no one has mentioned, of course.

I can't bring them up because it would be too easily exploited by either side.

This is very interesting. Does it depress you that this level if planning is required?

[LadyScootaloo]

This is very interesting. Does it depress you that this level if planning is required?

 

In truth there is no 'planning' for the ratio of defenders vs attackers.

Any attempt to do so will just add stress.

People who don't feel like doing anything can defend.

People who want to hit stuff will attack.

 

The only tough part is finding the people to attack.

Even casuals wouldn't mind defending. (rather it would be the casuals who prefer to defend anyway)

[darthdart]

It's not like the ones in power don't do terrible garbage to cheat anyway, go for it.

 

Or, your "friend" should go for it.

 

Won't do anything though, I guarantee it. If a node goes down that isn't held by someone in the dark sector mafia, you can bet your sweet &#! they will take it back pronto.

 

Otherwise this would have already ended long ago legitimately.

 

The only two things that can stop this nonsense from happening is if a group from the inside turns on all of them at the right moment, or if the devs step in and baby the community.

 

As long as the main clans or whatever are all sticking together completely, you will need more than 200 folks.

[SmokinDevil]

To those who mention to 'just do it' rather than talk about it...

I really do not feel the inclination to do any of this.

I'm perfectly fine sitting idly by while someone else takes up the reigns.

 

I have not the time to afford for the plans I have in mind.

 

But you DO have the plans. Right? You don't have to execute them yourself, it just needs to be done. The numbers have already been posted. Research has been done.

 

"400 people 100 teams of 4. and you take the rail down to 0% in 12 hours 

800 people 200 teams of 4. and you take the rail down to 0% in 6 hours 

1600 people 400 teams of 4. and you take the rail down to 0% in 3 hours 

3200 people 800 teams of 4. and you take the rail down to 0% in 1.5 hours"

 

How many players does WF have? You can absolutely melt a rail in 30 minutes. The majority of players aren't the ones in the alliances.

 

I'd actually see someone actually honestly "do something" about it.

 

 

Like it was so easy

Like it has never been attempted before

Because people complained because they haven't tried before in the past.

 

 

Like DE takes no fault for systems like these being in place.

 

Me too. No one ever said it was easy though. IMO, it's not hard either. I agree with you.

 

But for the sake of it, in the off chance that you might be using sarcasm, what clans/alliances do you think have tried? Or maybe we have different definitions of trying?

[PookieNumnums]

the only thing that will fix the issues is a total ds rework. 

 

ive mentioned ways in previous posts to somewhat alter the flow of how the dark sectors work.

 

it involved allowing multiple rails to be deployed in the various sectors 

where groups could either deploy their own rail or contest a rail that has been deployed. 

 

groups each group would have its own rail karma

karma would directly affect the available items a group can offer as battle pay, affect the xp bonuses, credit and resource bonuses , and increase with support during non contested states and then recieve a good chunk for winning conflicts and losing the same amount when their rail is destroyed. 

 

would involve both pve and pvp however when a group deploys the rail they would select a gametype and when contested it would be four v four to complete that samr objective. would include def surv spy intercept exterm excavate. 

 

i worked up a halfazzd concept of how the menu could look but id rather make a nicer one. 

 

there would still be frame v frame balance issues but it would prevent the dark sectors from being so exclusive, provide more options for finding missions in ds with favorable conditions, and allow for consistant involvement and scaling benefits.

 

our dojos are like towers and our rails are in the void

[PookieNumnums]

phone glitched so ill finish here. since our dojos and clans hide in the void we could with high enough karma offfer prime part bp or w.e.  maybe stuff exclusive to ds reward table. doent have to be prime just an example. 

the only thing that will fix the issues is a total ds rework. 

 

ive mentioned ways in previous posts to somewhat alter the flow of how the dark sectors work.

 

it involved allowing multiple rails to be deployed in the various sectors 

where groups could either deploy their own rail or contest a rail that has been deployed. 

 

groups each group would have its own rail karma

karma would directly affect the available items a group can offer as battle pay, affect the xp bonuses, credit and resource bonuses , and increase with support during non contested states and then recieve a good chunk for winning conflicts and losing the same amount when their rail is destroyed. 

 

would involve both pve and pvp however when a group deploys the rail they would select a gametype and when contested it would be four v four to complete that samr objective. would include def surv spy intercept exterm excavate. 

 

i worked up a halfazzd concept of how the menu could look but id rather make a nicer one. 

 

there would still be frame v frame balance issues but it would prevent the dark sectors from being so exclusive, provide more options for finding missions in ds with favorable conditions, and allow for consistant involvement and scaling benefits.

 

our dojos are like towers and our rails are in the void