Warframe's Monetization And Lack Of Depth: A Challenge To De

[notionphil]

TL;DR

 

We did/do: it's called Founder's.

 

You should have read it. I am a founder.

 

Warframe has strayed from the vision DE shared with us. Dev time is now more focused on space puppies and air-to-air battles than co-op action and "each player writing his own story across the galaxy" - that's what the dream was about.

 

If revenues are the reason, let's give DE a chance to stop that right now.

[notionphil]

Because the OP thinks DE's reason for not producing content is a lack of money.

 

I don't think players should pay money to expect actual depth and story to a game that charges them for shiny bits and purports itself as a F2P game. DE should want story and depth to their game so players continue to play and buy shiny hat bits.

 

Again, no paywall. Pay is for beta-access to the system before it hits live server.

 

Anyway, yes, I agree that depth should drive the desire to get more shinys. But that's not at all what's happening here - we're getting all the shinys and none of the depth -  so I'm suggesting an alternate route to fund depth.

[MDRLOz]

I for one would like some more access packs like Notion Phil is saying. 

I would pay just to support DE and then hopefully they will feel more secure money wise and then stop churning out the same fresh but ultimately shallow content. 

 

I have bought every prime access at max level. However I never use the weapons, warframe or sentinels that I get. Instead I farm the bits and make a new one then bin the free one I got from prime access. Why? Whats the point of buying the content. Then I have no reason to play tier 4 missions. Why not just buy prime accessories? Because I like to support DE.

 

Personally though I am waiting on December/January. For those who don't know December 2012 -> January 2014 was dark for DE and the fan base went rabid. DE promised us a "Year of endgame" in 2014. Since then I will say they have released some nice content (Melee system, Dark sectors, Tier 4, Liset, Quest system, Archwing - soonTM) but no real endgame development. 

Everything so far has been design, develop, deliver and drop. Dark sectors is clearly the best example of this. It is almost a workable endgame system. It has a cool game mode, it has intrigue and cool mechanics with rail deployment. However it is completely hollow. There is no overarching reasons to it but that its there. All it gives is credits and resources for your clan. Your clan can save these up and... what? Capture another node. The final part of this "endgame" project is missing completely and it guts the entire project. I never considered it before but I guess there is no monetization possible to be made from dark sectors. 

Edited October 13, 2014 by MDRLOz

[notionphil]

I for one would like some more access packs like Notion Phil is saying. 

I would pay just to support DE and then hopefully they will feel more secure money wise and then stop churning out the same fresh but ultimately shallow content. 

 

I have bought every prime access at max level. However I never use the weapons, warframe or sentinels that I get. Instead I farm the bits and make a new one then bin the free one I got from prime access. Why? Whats the point of buying the content. Then I have no reason to play tier 4 missions. Why not just buy prime accessories? Because I like to support DE.

 

Personally though I am waiting on December/January. For those who don't know December 2012 -> January 2014 was dark for DE and the fan base went rabid. DE promised us a "Year of endgame". Since then I will say they have released some nice content (Melee system, Dark sectors, Tier 4, Liset, Quest system, Archwing - soonTM) but no real endgame development. 

Everything so far has been design, develop, deliver and drop. Dark sectors is clearly the best example of this. It is almost a workable endgame system. It has a cool game mode, it has intrigue and cool mechanics with rail deployment. However it is completely hollow. There is no overarching reasons to it but that its there. All it gives is credits and resources for your clan. Your clan can save these up and... what? Capture another node. The final part of this "endgame" project is missing completely and it guts the entire project. I never considered it before but I guess there is no monetization possible to be made from dark sectors. 

 

I'm going to add important replies to the OP, so that devs can see them at-a-glance. This was one of them.

[LukeAura]

Optional Challenges don't work in Warframe, they're at best a mild distraction for most, and enjoyable by a limited number of players for longer periods. Scaling Challenge must go hand in hand with scaling rewards entirely located within the main gameplay itself. Even if that just means more grinding, its more enjoyable grinding.
And there has to be some of it that isn't grind locked before we can get to the grinding we want to do, because I've still never actually owned my own T4 key or visited T4 void more than once on a friend's key because getting the key is just such a hassle in the first place. I haven't bothered fighting Hek either for the exact same reasons. 


 

[Marthrym]

I believe that statement is more referring to "we never want to exclude newer players from things". This doesn't mean older players can't have challenge. An example of this would be the Tactical Alerts. Sure, they couldn't become an extreme test of your ability, but they were a start. Newer players could still access these missions, and older players still found challenge within it.

 

We'll have to see where this experimental feature goes, but for now I am satisfied with the current direction.

I have to disagree with you there. I don't find tac alerts challenging by any means. Cranking up the numbers isn't challenge. It just shows who knows the basics of TPS and who doesn't.

 

And unfortunately, I lost count of the number of times I saw players get insta-gibbed because they were careless and bum rushed a mob of enemies, not because these enemies presented more challenge and required tactics/strategy/teamwork to be defeated, but simply because they used a broken scaling, which apparently is now what challenge is supposed to be. But maybe I'm the one who's broken...^^'

Not to mention most of the time they insult their teammates because they didn't go on a suicide mission to revive them...

 

The only thing I found challenging with the tac alerts was finding a team of randoms who actually know how to play with teammates. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying new players are bad, they're actually surprisingly careful sometimes and tend to get behind cover more than "vets", it's actually the players with good gear and "high" MR who often get cocky and end up killing themselves because they somehow forgot how to take cover and pick their targets.

 

Basically tac alerts are just separating players who know how to take cover from those who don't. Where's the challenge in that?^^'

[Boatsniper]

I think this would be a good place to plug my old thread on Mission Depth one more time, not that it would change anything.

 

Depth is all about doing things with the content the game hands us. The more things we can do, the greater value the content has.

[MDRLOz]

I had high hopes for tactical alerts. However I just keep getting disappointed by them.

 

Firstly they are massively spread out. Secondly they have already become a simplified, boiled down, and bland affair just like events. This last tactical alert was a run once and then never do it again. Took about 20 min of my time and then forgotten about. The first was very grindy, I am not denying, but it felt alive. You could spread it out over your whole weekend and it felt good as you progressed through each difficulty level and onto the next. 

 

I expect the next one will just a Spy mission with Grineer and Corpus both painted orange or where the only enemies are kubows. It will be entertaining for 15 minutes and then you have an emblem that took no effort to obtain and off you go back to burn out corner with nothing to do. 

[noveltyhero]

I had high hopes for tactical alerts. However I just keep getting disappointed by them.

 

Firstly they are massively spread out. Secondly they have already become a simplified, boiled down, and bland affair just like events. This last tactical alert was a run once and then never do it again. Took about 20 min of my time and then forgotten about. The first was very grindy, I am not denying, but it felt alive. You could spread it out over your whole weekend and it felt good as you progressed through each difficulty level and onto the next. 

 

I expect the next one will just a Spy mission with Grineer and Corpus both painted orange or where the only enemies are kubows. It will be entertaining for 15 minutes and then you have an emblem that took no effort to obtain and off you go back to burn out corner with nothing to do. 

They should keep the idea with endless because it allows you to advance your emblem more easily if you can't grind 50 missions. However more scaled/random rewards would be cool. i.e Instead of just a basic rewards, they should drop in an RNG based loot table that provides some interesting rewards such as mods, lots of cores packs, keys etc.. Of course all in right amounts to justify time spent.

As well as some timing as to have at least 1 per week, that would be nice.

 

Personally my biggest disappointment is the failure to create meaningful and dynamic boss battles. Lepanthis is the only one coming close to being called a "boss" and even he lacks certain action in phase 2. (it is seriously boring, nothing different other than seeing the rest of him)..

Here is one of my suggestions on boss battles:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/276671-how-to-make-phorid-a-beast-d/  and here on boss drops:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/316508-how-to-farm-a-warframe-boss-part-farming-feedback/

That is just the tip of the iceberg..looking to see what they do with this new boss, please no random unjustified invincibility states...

[Neocyberman]

I don't agree with the payed beta thing at all. If warframe continues to be called a beta even at this stage when theres a wealth of content put out that can never be accessed again like wraiths and so on two years in then taking the step of should not require payment. In fact I would go so far as to say a Warframe (the game) where content is tested out in its beta phases and constantly revised is in environment preferable to what we have now. Warframe is beta in name only. Content comes out in whatever state its in and remains that way for months reaching on years.

 

I am very sceptical of DE. When I first started playing I wasn't but with time I've experienced the burnout that comes with playing to solar system. Then I was introduced to the idea that its been this way for so long and I gave up on the idea of paying for anything until the content presented is worth paying for. And so it has remained

[Sylaenius]

The unfortunate reason why threads like these that plead with the Developers to fix the game don't get much significance put on them is because to the playerbase at large, it simply isn't significant.

 

The Dev's rollover feedback and community hot topics every month in Devstreams and threads, such as last dev stream they had a poll for "Would you rather work on mods, or more Prime gear?" and a startling majority voted for Primes.

 

Why? Because the lack of depth Warframe offers isn't an issue until you run out of shiny things you want to grind for. Some people want all of them, some people like me felt they had everything they needed at a decent spread of Warframe's that fell into each roll, and a spread of weaponry that covered most of my bases.

 

A lot of the factors contributing to a lack of gameplay depth are horrendously misunderstood, or, as it more often happens, simply do not exist in the collective consciousness of a lot of players, most of whom are new. They're either too new to the game to understand the mechanics, or have never been invested enough to put forth the effort to understand the game at such an intimate level.

 

The unfortunate side effect of this is of course that when the Devs do community hot topics and streams, they don't have the available space or time to fully explain these issues to the people who don't understand them and haven't brushed with them yet, and so the demographic at large stays largely uninformed.

 

I mentioned earlier that poll for devstream 38. That poll was extremely problematic in my opinion, because while it posed the question, it did not facilitate an informed decision making process. Logistics for this can be somewhat hard, I understand, but something needs to be done about it.

 

Very often issues that are important to the playerbase are not being recognized or understood by all but a few of the playerbase, and because DE is so wonderful about trying to communicate with us as their bread and butter and basing a fair amount of their focus and effort of mainstream opinion, when important things like gameplay depth are misunderstood and not recognized by players at large, we end up here, and here is a S#&$ty place to be.  

[Semshol]

I am, personally, a man who makes his own fun in Warframe. I enjoy building and experimentation with different weapons and warframes, just to figure out new strategies, new styles of play etc.

 

Enemies and rewards are secondary. I enjoy farming platinum and at Mastery Rank 13, I haven't bothered to complete the star-chart because it's a chore.

 

What DE needs to do is create an epic reason to fight on each planet. I'm going to deliver a concept that you (the OP). I am hoping you will promote, if it's good. If it's bad, throw it out the window and I'll pay it no mind:

 

The Idea

 

It centres around the planned town hubs. What if they were used to show the 'grim dark future' we find ourselves in. They should be towns of metal, with people leaving in slums and squalor. Archaic market places, a lack of anything resembling wealth and a stark contrast from the void.

 

The Hope

 

These towns will show what life is really like for those who aren't a part of the Grineer or Corpus factions. That is to say, misery. What then needs to happen is that Tenno need side-missions that pertain to mission types within the planet. Here is an example:

 

Man in town: "Me mum's dead, poison got to her. Damn those Grineer bastards..."

 

As a Tenno you are mute, but you know what must be done. You deploy for the Sabotage mission. But this time it's not just a plain sabotage. Missions activated by these statements have little add-ons. For instance, after the toxin is neutralized, you must capture the officer to interrogate him for an antidote. After capturing him you are also sent to quickly retrieve a data mass, all while the enemies begin to swarm you.

 

The Rewards

 

As we complete these little side mission from the town-hub. The population as a whole gains 'satisfaction'. This means that they begin to reward all Tenno who visit that hub. The rewards won't be anything great, usually just rare resources from the planet, or perhaps retired weapon blueprints. Example:

 

Town Chief: ''Ere Tenno, we found an old blueprint for a sniper rifle, don't think none of us could build or use it, but you, maybe you can do some good with this.' (You acquire the Snipetron BP)

 

This can work for all retired/event based weapons to make a comeback into the game. It wouldn't be all the time, but once in awhile, it might be a nice treat for having fought for the planet :)

 

Satisfaction should be something that is based on the entire active playerbase working together. Only if everyone contributes enough to keep it above 75% will the rewards start to come and anything above 90% means higher chances at rarer rewards.

 

Why integrate this?

 

Because we're fighting with no purpose other than to build weapons and unlock more of the same missions except the enemies are slightly tougher.

 

If hub towns can be integrated into the supposedly grim and dark lore of Warframe, then we Tenno will finally know that we are the good guys. We're here to fight the good fight and what we do makes a difference.

 

Yes, satisfaction of the populace is a meaningless bar, but if DE puts in the effort, having the Townsfolk greet you pleasantly and offer rewards can feel pretty nice and when the satisfaction is dropping, those Tenno who want a break from grinding can run side-missions that will offer credits (hopefully higher than what is offered by the mission itself).

 

Furthermore these will serve as the bridge between the Veteran and the Newbie. The vets run these missions for satisfaction and newbies get to see how the veterans steam-roll. But should it really be that easy? No.

 

Additional Rewards for, NOT tactical loadouts, but CHOICE loadouts:

- Veterans have mastered many weapons. They are also bored people in general.

 

Therefore I propose a system of choice loadouts for the side missions. When a Tenno chooses to take them on, he'll receive a message saying that he can receive a credit bonus for taking a pre-made loadout (weapons only, frame is anything). This will auto-equip to him during the mission if he chooses to accept. The load-out will ideally bring him on par with the average rating for that area and he will have to utilize some measure of skill in order to survive. (assuming he doesn't rhino stomp everything, but perhaps a limited FRAME conclave can counter that :'3).

 

This means Veterans get an extra challenge and have a reason to show newbies what the difference of 'skill' makes in a game like warframe.

 

Additional rewards will be in the form of:

- Large Amounts of credits

- Rare Mods

- Maybe some rarer event BPs?

 

In conclusion, this idea is designed to be the bridge between vets and newbies and to also increase the depth of warframe so we have a reason to fight. So we have a reason to learn more than 1 frame. That is my hope.

[RiouHotaru]

Ironically, this issue of a lack of endgame, or making content available to all players is an issue City of Heroes had for the longest time.  Endgame took over twenty major content updates over several years before a proper "endgame" existed.  Along the way they even developed a means for people to go back and play earlier content they missed simply because there was so much width to content that you couldn't possibly play it all.

 

And one of the things that was good about CoH was the commitment to the player experience, rather than a straight linear path from start to finish (something I feel most online games fail at).  The problem with this comparison is that CoH is only a different game, but had about 10x more content.  But I think the vision is the same.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

I would have put money into this game if the X1 supported more credit cards...

As for the topic, that's just how F2P games are. Especially not so well known ones like Warframe. Everybody needs to put food on the table and/or appease the stock owners. You vote with your wallet, not your voice. DE has been better about this though.

1) Warframe does grow in difficulty. The reason it seems so easy is that there is no major reason to go do endgame content (T4, Derelict, pluto, etc) while there is a HIGE reason to go play lesser areas. Jupiter, a planet I wreck in, is the only area where I can get neural sensors. Why would I go do a T4 interception again? Oh yeah, to get endgame gear that I'll sell to the masses in the trading arena. The game isn't easier. It simply forces you to do the easy things.

2) That's actually the point of PvE focused RPGs/MMOs. You get better stuff to beat better things.

3) Warframe does need a message from Lotus (after the beggining quest) that gives an overview of the world of Warframe. Having everything available from the beggining is great. I did an ODD a few weeks in and got WREKT. Later, I showed up and shoved my Galatine up an ancient's ***. That's cool. Options are really good as long as you have the knowledge to back it up. You are right that Warframe does monetize newer players, but that's what most F2P games have to do.

4) Most RPGs/MMOs make wide, shallow content. Take Skyrim, it was a really repetitive game with a lot of grinding. Warframe will turn into the same thing. What about GTA? A main story and...what exactly?

Quantity or quality, you can't have both.

5) I'm not likely to give DE any cash now, even if I had the ability. I have no need to buy a Warframe or weapon since I already have endgame content. The only things if buy now are cosmetic items. Warframe doesn't support a lot of cosmetic items. That is why newer players must be monetized. DE is stuck unless they provide something for vets. That something better not be an item with a function.

No, I want to bling out my dojo. What about arbitrary attachments to my weapons? A red dot sight? A rotating arrow quiver? What about more skins and attachments for my Warframe?

[Davoodoo]

OK lets assume there would be a beta access, but really a beta within beta which you need to pay for??

 

Also i have my fears that it wont be as colorful as it might seem, what will you really get??

1.Asking for 20-50$ to access a single feature in incomplete game ahead of time is worse than preordering imo,

2.you pay for something that you know no value of.

3.since devs are being paid upfront they have no incentive to keep polishing their product or even releasing it to wider audience since you already paid for it.

4.If you are having any real impact on new content then what is design council and forums overall for?? Personally it doesnt seem right that only biggest spenders are having decision about future content, people are being selfish and rarely care about whats best for game itself.

5.Once they decide they cant make any more money from beta, they will just push it to live servers and get money again from plat purchases

 

Basically once in a while you are paying devs to show some incomplete content for price ranging from indie game to full aaa release, without them having any hard deadline on that content too.

 

That really goes against everything that can be called ethical consumerism.

 

I can really understand paying for new content, you like what you will get, you want it, go ahead, buy it, you make a conscious decision but paying for a promise is something a consumer should fight against instead of supporting it.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Davoodoo

[noveltyhero]

4) Most RPGs/MMOs make wide, shallow content. Take Skyrim, it was a really repetitive game with a lot of grinding. Warframe will turn into the same thing. What about GTA? A main story and...what exactly?

Quantity or quality, you can't have both.

I have to disagree. I completed every single quest in Skyrim (except the endless ones, duh.) and whilst some were indeed repetitive every once in a while you were hit with an ancient story, with a reason and interesting sets and characters. Such as different vampires that yes will end up dead but their names, their origin, their notes around their lair. Or the dragons, getting into a fight with 2 legendary dragons was so much fun.

 

You can have both quantity and quality, this comes from a player, an artist and a modder. In fact the balance between the two often determines the success of a game, i.e the new dragon age is said to have around 200 hours worth of content, the quantity is there; if they nail the quality then Bioware will be wiping their butts with 50 dollar bills for the next 50 years..

[Shreiko]

I have to disagree. I completed every single quest in Skyrim (except the endless ones, duh.) and whilst some were indeed repetitive every once in a while you were hit with an ancient story, with a reason and interesting sets and characters. Such as different vampires that yes will end up dead but their names, their origin, their notes around their lair. Or the dragons, getting into a fight with 2 legendary dragons was so much fun.

 

You can have both quantity and quality, this comes from a player, an artist and a modder. In fact the balance between the two often determines the success of a game, i.e the new dragon age is said to have around 200 hours worth of content, the quantity is there; if they nail the quality then Bioware will be wiping their butts with 50 dollar bills for the next 50 years..

Lets pray that game does not disappoint.

[sekushiiandee]

I have to disagree. I completed every single quest in Skyrim (except the endless ones, duh.) and whilst some were indeed repetitive every once in a while you were hit with an ancient story, with a reason and interesting sets and characters. Such as different vampires that yes will end up dead but their names, their origin, their notes around their lair. Or the dragons, getting into a fight with 2 legendary dragons was so much fun.

 

You can have both quantity and quality, this comes from a player, an artist and a modder. In fact the balance between the two often determines the success of a game, i.e the new dragon age is said to have around 200 hours worth of content, the quantity is there; if they nail the quality then Bioware will be wiping their butts with 50 dollar bills for the next 50 years..

^ not to mention the endless mod capabilities of skyrim to add more content and to add more quests

 

but i have to agree that it is possible to have both quality and quantity

 

diablo 2 is another good game that stands the test of time.....its extremely repetitive yet there are still thousands of people playing this game....and hundreds of people still making new mods or updating existing mods to entertain playerbase

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

I have to disagree. I completed every single quest in Skyrim (except the endless ones, duh.) and whilst some were indeed repetitive every once in a while you were hit with an ancient story, with a reason and interesting sets and characters. Such as different vampires that yes will end up dead but their names, their origin, their notes around their lair. Or the dragons, getting into a fight with 2 legendary dragons was so much fun.

 

You can have both quantity and quality, this comes from a player, an artist and a modder. In fact the balance between the two often determines the success of a game, i.e the new dragon age is said to have around 200 hours worth of content, the quantity is there; if they nail the quality then Bioware will be wiping their butts with 50 dollar bills for the next 50 years..

Hence the reason I say Warframe is heading in that direction. Look at Warframe's quests.

The only thing that separates Watframe and Skyrim is a bigger dev team and development time.

[The_Hanged_Man]

Again, no paywall. Pay is for beta-access to the system before it hits live server.

 

Anyway, yes, I agree that depth should drive the desire to get more shinys. But that's not at all what's happening here - we're getting all the shinys and none of the depth -  so I'm suggesting an alternate route to fund depth.

The problem is that we should have to fun depth. The shinys are there to fund that. The shinys are what we're supposed to waste money on to keep servers up, not the other way around.

 

And paying for beta access while in a 'beta' is kind of ridiculous-not to mention the point of beta is to test with a public at large, not buyers....

 

 

Ironically, this issue of a lack of endgame, or making content available to all players is an issue City of Heroes had for the longest time.  Endgame took over twenty major content updates over several years before a proper "endgame" existed.  Along the way they even developed a means for people to go back and play earlier content they missed simply because there was so much width to content that you couldn't possibly play it all.

 

And one of the things that was good about CoH was the commitment to the player experience, rather than a straight linear path from start to finish (something I feel most online games fail at).  The problem with this comparison is that CoH is only a different game, but had about 10x more content.  But I think the vision is the same.

CoH, Mah friend.<3

 

But that just shows the big difference between Warfarm and CoH, or any other MMO. Most MMOs actually have content(good or bad). Warframe just has mechanics and an interesting aesthetic . That's why there's such a high burnout rate for this game-I know I only log on for events and such anymore, because I can play for fifteen minutes to do something like kill phorid, then bail until something pops up.

[notionphil]

Hence the reason I say Warframe is heading in that direction. Look at Warframe's quests.

The only thing that separates Watframe and Skyrim is a bigger dev team and development time.

 

Incorrect.

 

Imagine if instead of 95% of Skyrim's quests, Bethesda decided to make a dog training simulator. And instead of the Dragon Shout system, they built a cart race mini-game so distinct from gameplay that they actually called it "a new game".

 

That is what separates Warframe from Skyrim. Priorities. Skyrim focused on building a deep and engaging world. Warframe is focusing on adding diversions from play which can be monetized.

[vaugahn]

Incorrect.

 

Imagine if instead of 95% of Skyrim's quests, Bethesda decided to make a dog training simulator. And instead of the Dragon Shout system, they built a cart race mini-game so distinct from gameplay that they actually called it "a new game".

 

That is what separates Warframe from Skyrim. Priorities. Skyrim focused on building a deep and engaging world. Warframe is focusing on adding diversions from play which can be monetized.

 

I'm not sure if Skyrim is really a fair comparison, considering it was in development for almost 5 years, and it came from a much larger studio. If we had played Skyrim when it was around two years old I'm sure it would have been just as incomplete and bug-ridden as Warframe is now.

 

Also, one of the things that made Skyrim cool was the breadth of things there were to do. You could spend hours farming and cooking, or getting married, or dozens of other things that had almost nothing to do with the main game and yet were still there. 

[Sitchrea]

Can I just throw all of my Yes at the screen?

 

OP's got truth!

[Davoodoo]

I'm not sure if Skyrim is really a fair comparison, considering it was in development for almost 5 years, and it came from a much larger studio. If we had played Skyrim when it was around two years old I'm sure it would have been just as incomplete and bug-ridden as Warframe is now.

 

Also, one of the things that made Skyrim cool was the breadth of things there were to do. You could spend hours farming and cooking, or getting married, or dozens of other things that had almost nothing to do with the main game and yet were still there. 

From what i remember it was 2 years since warframe went into beta.

 

In 2012, Digital Extremes announced they were working on Warframe

Wiki

 

Even if they started working at the time of announcement its nearly 3 years of development and game is nowhere near close to being complete, it will take at least few years more to get it feature complete at their current pace then a year or 2 to fix and polish, thats considering they even plan to release it.

5 year development cycle for rpg of the year 2011 isnt that much but warframe comes close to that and still isnt nowhere near rdy.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Davoodoo

[notionphil]

I'm not sure if Skyrim is really a fair comparison, considering it was in development for almost 5 years, and it came from a much larger studio. If we had played Skyrim when it was around two years old I'm sure it would have been just as incomplete and bug-ridden as Warframe is now.

 

Also, one of the things that made Skyrim cool was the breadth of things there were to do. You could spend hours farming and cooking, or getting married, or dozens of other things that had almost nothing to do with the main game and yet were still there. 

 

Just for clarification:

 

I brought Skyrim up in the OP as an example of open world with better breadcrumbs, not to compare the depth of gameplay. Someone else made a comment about the depth, and I responded bc I disagreed.

 

I'm not asking for WF to do things outside of the scope of its dev resources and I think the OP is pretty clear about that.