The Game Punishes Me For My Progression.

[Innocent_Flower]

Does anyone else find that they sometimes play warframe too passively? 

 

Say I get good gear. 

 

I play a game. 

 

Enemy struggle to damage me. I struggle not to instakill the enemy. Because of this I meerly need to aim at the enemy and click whilst moving to objectives to win (and I could probably ignore the enemy outright and still not get into trouble) 

 

Now, I could just rearange my gear to make myself weaker; but thats time consuming, requires maths, and is really a bane to endless modes (35 mins of being too strong and 40+ for being instakilled by everything in T4). It's a chore and I'm being punished for my progression. 

 

There's also a huge chance that I'm gonna be paired with a player who's got gear either too weak or too strong for the level, who will bring down my enjoyment of the game. 

 

 

 

 

Warframe should realy work on the basis that mods and endgame weapons don't give gamebraking bonuses but rather large advantages. 

 

More difficult levels shouldn't be giving out enemies with far more health, armour and damage, but rather more enemies with power weapons. By that I mean huge damaging weapons/enemies that are easy to avoid (Examples in other games; Vortigaunts from half life, grenades in cod, Melee enemies and anti-vehicle weapons in halo, Everything that exists in serious sam) enemies with mechanics to keep them alive (dodging, temporary shields, strafing, teleporting etc) and Eximus enemies who use powers the way players do ( avoidable debuffs and attacks, good ability to buff/save allies.) 

 

if you had stuff like that rather than just "enemies with more health and damage" you'd actualy have a real sense of progression, with more powerful modded weapons/warframes not being so powerful that they render low level enemies too easy but rather that they give the necessary edge to skillfully fight advanced enemies. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Archistopheles]

Stop playing on Mercury. Problem solved.

[Zsar]

I am currently equipped with a full set of Mk-1 weapons for Mastery... and have freshly run out of sufficiently easy missions to run.
Now I have to rely on other's killing power to progress or re-run missions with low difficulty for no proper reward (not counting the odd alert).

Same problem, different end of the scale.

[Dark5eiD]

enemies have grenades, also the have ogris , moa have lasers which are a pain not mentioning ancient toxics and etc with health procs and fire leaders. i think you may need to just play higher game level if you have eng game load out in my opinion.

[Tr1ples1xer]

This is WARframe, you need to dish out massive amounts of damage because you aren't against 1 enemy, they outnumber us like 1000 to 1, so leave me my 1000x damage and play nightmare missions only.

[Kasumi-]

This is WARframe, you need to dish out massive amounts of damage because you aren't against 1 enemy, they outnumber us like 1000 to 1, so leave me my 1000x damage and play nightmare missions only.

 

More like infinite to one, if we're talking about Grineer.

[Janzer]

A game breaking, or maybe just fun breaking, instance I ran in to the other night was this: A friend invited me to a dark sector to gather up some T4key in Interception. I took a rifle I wanted a few levels of xp on. We had a Nova, Trinity, Volt (me) and an Ash.

 

The Ash, a Mastery Rank 13 at that, was standing on a central part of the map (I believe we were in Ceres) and spamming Blade Storm. Even if only one enemy appeared, Blade Storm.

 

If this was the only instance this happened with, I wouldn't bother saying anything. But, it seems Ash's Blade Storm spam has become the new annoying Rhino Stomp for just a single enemy.

 

After the first set ended people wanted to stay, so I did. The second set continued as the first had.

 

I understand farming. But in my opinion if you are going to play that way, play solo or with a dedicated group that doesn't mind your actions. A group game doesn't involve one person being a ****. I always ask if the person can hold off on using their fourth for every single enemy they encounter. I usually just wait until I see the pattern, and then just suggest that it would be more fun for me if I could participate in the group game.

 

I've never had anyone actually hold off on spamming their fourth. Even in instances where using a fourth isn't needed (ie low level defense missions), they'll just use it.

 

These are the things that are currently ruining my fun in the game. And yes, you could say, well don't play in PUGs. But what is the point of having that option if we just can't use it?

 

The devs can not control player behavior. Maybe they can try to reward good behavior instead. But, they can definitely control how a power is used. I would love to see some adjustment to the fourth abilities during multiplayer sessions. Possibly an enemy level restriction usage, rank restriction usage, planetary and void Tier restriction....specifically and only during multiplayer. In solo play, I say anything can go.

 

One last note. Farming faster, to go farm something else, is insane to me. I hardly ever farm because I do not enjoy the rate of return required, which means upping the speed of play, which means literally bypassing most of the game.

 

What are we playing this game for if we're here to bypass most of the game? To get the next objective done faster? So we can get the next objective done, faster? It's not for me. I'd rather enjoy the game play. If that means not burning through a mission at warp speed ignoring all things, then so be it.

 

I often see in recruiting people asking for others to help them farm resources. I also see on lower levels that those players are just running through the missions without even opening a single box or locker. When you're a new player, it behooves you to actually stop and gather things!?! Crazy huh?!

Edited October 15, 2014 by Janzer

[DSpite]

I have no idea what the OP is on about. I have a fresh account as of U14 and THAT account does not have every nightmare and dual mod and what people consider "standard" MODs like say Heavy Caliber and Split Barrel, and have no Forma on anything, so I can't make "uber" guns/frames like people that have 500+ hour spent on a single account.

 

If he's complaining about the fact that because he has "everything" and the game is now too easy, he is in the minority, and it's no different to any RPG game where you get "everything". Borderlands also becomes easy when you have all artifact weapons, and so does Diablo or Torchlight, this is why DE injects new content like Archwing, so we have somewhere new to go blow things up.

 

If the game is too easy, then go play something else.

[Sylaenius]

These threads always frustrate me, the comments they get frustrate me more.

 

The reason veterans find the game mind-numbingly easy, and the reason why new players find the game impossibly hard is a convoluted mess of factors from the way the mod system works mathematically, the mess that is the Damage 2.0 system, enemy level scaling, all the way up to the fact that the actual mobs we fight are not challenging and have very little diversity, less so when you count the effectiveness what little diversity is present in their ranks brings to combat.

 

It is a balance issue, an issue that hasn't been addressed in any capacity other than small and half-implemented updates for the past two years.

 

Purposely hobbling ones power in an attempt to balance the field so you can experience challenging and fun gameplay is not a solution.

 

Relegating your play to nightmare missions because the rest of the game doesn't involve any more than pointing and clicking to claim your blueprint is not a solution.

 

The solution is to simultaneously educate as many people about what is the matter and why so they may then discuss how they would like to see it fixed, which gives the Devs an avenue to rectify it and no excuse not to.

 

The thing that get's me most is that new players think because they can still occupy their time questing for Kubrows, collecting Warframes and building guns, that it isn't even a problem that the content you have to grind through to do those things is shallow and lackluster.

 

Collecting rewards isn't gameplay, completing a challenging task and engaging with the content to get those rerwards is what gameplay is. And frankly, in Warframe, there isn't much of it.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Sylaenius

[Davoodoo]

This is WARframe, you need to dish out massive amounts of damage because you aren't against 1 enemy, they outnumber us like 1000 to 1, so leave me my 1000x damage and play nightmare missions only.

So being outnumbered 1000 to 1 is reason why our reasons overkill these enemies by 10000%.

 

You could easily lower number of enemies and make their relative strength closer to ours, would also make the game less gpu and cpu intensive thus improving gameplay using p2p connection which relies on host having good enough net and hardware.

 

This might sound obvious but ppl arent putting even that much thought into it

Whole point of changing something is to change it.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Dark5eiD]

These threads always frustrate me, the comments they get frustrate me more.

 

The reason veterans find the game mind-numbingly easy, and the reason why new players find the game impossibly hard is a convoluted mess of factors from the way the mod system works mathematically, the mess that is the Damage 2.0 system, enemy level scaling, all the way up to the fact that the actual mobs we fight are not challenging and have very little diversity, less so when you count the effectiveness what little diversity is present in their ranks brings to combat.

 

It is a balance issue, an issue that hasn't been addressed in any capacity other than small and half-implemented updates for the past two years.

 

Purposely hobbling ones power in an attempt to balance the field so you can experience challenging and fun gameplay is not a solution.

 

Relegating your play to nightmare missions because the rest of the game doesn't involve any more than pointing and clicking to claim your blueprint is not a solution.

 

The solution is to simultaneously educate as many people about what is the matter and why so they may then discuss how they would like to see it fixed, which gives the Devs an avenue to rectify it and no excuse not to.

 

The thing that get's me most is that new players think because they can still occupy their time questing for Kubrows, collecting Warframes and building guns, that it isn't even a problem that the content you have to grind through to do those things is shallow and lackluster.

 

Collecting rewards isn't gameplay, completing a challenging task and engaging with the content to get those rerwards is what gameplay is. And frankly, in Warframe, there isn't much of it.

no matter what you do there will always be a higher and lower level of enemys / missions. maybe having conclave lock lower level missions like recent excavation missions? me personally, i play alot of endgame and once in awhile i enjoy coming down to to mid levels a mopping the floor with the enemies. i typically solo when i do this, so the concloave lock would make sense as long as they are in a public setting. invite only or solo should be open.

[taiiat]

i think the closest to what you're asking for is TIV Keys.

 

Enemies have less bottomless Health, and make up for it in Damage.

it's... a start.

 

 

 

as for the issue itself, cut 3 or 4 zeroes off of our statcrepe and now we can balance things. also cut a few zeroes off of the Enemies.

the only way Warframe can be challenging and rewarding is if we have less statcrepe that all our Equipment gets.

 

did you know that Weapons get ~4500% more Powerful between Rank 0 and a full set of Mods?

that's f...ing absurd.

[CampingSnake]

I remember it used to be like what you're describing.

Early game, me and my friends would go into a room full of infested, and start slashing. Won't see the toxic ancient, it downs one of us. Another goes down trying to melee the thing, as they didn't have ammo from dispatching infested earlier. The third has ammo and guns it down, reviving his friends. It used to be more punishing. Some enemies took forever to kill, and a degree of teamwork. And higher level enemies would demand that you use teamwork and make effective use of cover.

 

The game is still enjoyable, but it is not the same as it was before. Teamwork is still needed but not in the same way.

[Tr1ples1xer]

So being outnumbered 1000 to 1 is reason why our reasons overkill these enemies by 10000%.

 

You could easily lower number of enemies and make their relative strength closer to ours, would also make the game less gpu and cpu intensive thus improving gameplay using p2p connection which relies on host having good enough net and hardware.

 

This might sound obvious but ppl arent putting even that much thought into it

Whole point of changing something is to change it.

Improving gameplay ? for you maybe...

 

I like having all the power I can, I did not play all these hours for nothing...

 

I like feeling like a powerful god, wrecking havok wherever I go. I don't want to hide behind cover all the time by fear of the enemies that is not what WF is about imo, I want to parkour and fly all over the place while deeling the most damage I can, now that is fun gameplay. Hiding behind cover and staying put or going slowy is not imo.

 

If after 1500 hours of play I felt like I could die at any time I would stop playing, I want to PLAY not die, ever.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer

[Prany]

When I was leveling MK-1 gear, extermination alert popped on Pluto. It was sort of chalenging. Sort of. None was maxed and ofc no taters and formas. Pretty lame for progression based game, if you ask me.

[Prany]

Improving gameplay ? for you maybe...

 

I like having all the power I can, I did not play all these hours for nothing...

 

I like feeling like a powerful god, wrecking havok wherever I go. I don't want to hide behind cover all the time by fear of the enemies that is not what WF is about imo, I want to parkour and fly all over the place while deeling the most damage I can, now that is fun gameplay. Hiding behind cover and staying put or going slowy is not imo.

 

If after 1500 hours of play I felt like I could die at any time I would stop playing, I want to PLAY not die, ever.

I have a good news, buddy. There is this place called Mercury where you will allways be overpowered. Isn't it great!

 

S#&$, double post.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Prany

[Tr1ples1xer]

I have a good news, buddy. There is this place called Mercury where you will allways be overpowered. Isn't it great!

 

S#&$, double post.

I have even better news for you, you know the mod serration ? you don't have to max it and then complain it does too much damage... or you know what ? you don't even have to equip any mods fun aint it ?

 

This game is all about balls to the wall action/parkour, killing hordes and hordes of enemies, this is not a cover shooter and never should be.

[Dark5eiD]

I have even better news for you, you know the mod serration ? you don't have to max it and then complain it does too much damage... or you know what ? you don't even have to equip any mods fun aint it ?

 

This game is all about balls to the wall action/parkour, killing hordes and hordes of enemies, this is not a cover shooter and never should be.

the thing i like about this game is you can take what you want out of it. if you wanna cover and shoot you can. if you waanna go balls to the wall, you can. if you want more difficulty there is a lot of options..pvp , T4, excavations late game, survivals and defnese late game. now the new arc wing levels are coming to introduce yet another game play. you can also play low level missions mercury and etc as others mentioned. you can also change your load out according to what your playing. no need for maxed 6 forma boltor prime on mercury.. try other weapons out that match the game play you are doing. you can make the game as hard or as easy as you want. this whole thread is silly

[Tr1ples1xer]

the thing i like about this game is you can take what you want out of it. if you wanna cover and shoot you can. if you waanna go balls to the wall, you can. if you want more difficulty there is a lot of options..pvp , T4, excavations late game, survivals and defnese late game. now the new arc wing levels are coming to introduce yet another game play. you can also play low level missions mercury and etc as others mentioned. you can also change your load out according to what your playing. no need for maxed 6 forma boltor prime on mercury.. try other weapons out that match the game play you are doing. you can make the game as hard or as easy as you want. this whole thread is silly

I agree, I don't understand why some people want everyone to play like they want, game too easy nerf everything for everyone !!!

[Prany]

I think when I can take starter gear to last planet on star chart and succeed, this game is tiny bit too easy.

[Phatose]

Agreed.  Of course, you probably can't actually do that, since you're no doubt ignoring that mods are gear and you start with nothing, so you're not actually using starter gear unless you've got no mods in it.

[Tr1ples1xer]

I think when I can take starter gear to last planet on star chart and succeed, this game is tiny bit too easy.

Starter weapons with 5 formas ?

 

Frame with all maxed abbilities max redirection and max everything right ?

 

Remove all mods and do solo T3 Def, then you can complain.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer

[Jathniel]

You know a game is good, when people struggle to find something legit to whine about.

"The game punishes me for my progression. Herp-a-derp. blargh..."

Edited October 15, 2014 by Jathniel

[taiiat]

I agree, I don't understand why some people want everyone to play like they want, game too easy nerf everything for everyone !!!

well, luckily for you, no matter how much we balance the game, Enemies apparently will always be piss easy.

 

so if you play against Infested 24/7, you'll always be destroying them. they have no difficulty whatsoever. there's your permanent source of easymode.

 

 

 

Video Games are about overcoming challenges though, critical thinking, and problem solving. you could ignore all of that great stuff that we're trying to make Warframe into, and just mop up Infested until the end of time though.

[Tr1ples1xer]

well, luckily for you, no matter how much we balance the game, Enemies apparently will always be &!$$ easy.

 

so if you play against Infested 24/7, you'll always be destroying them. they have no difficulty whatsoever. there's your permanent source of easymode.

 

 

 

Video Games are about overcoming challenges though, critical thinking, and problem solving. you could ignore all of that great stuff that we're trying to make Warframe into, and just mop up Infested until the end of time though.

No matter what they do, I have every weapon in the game in my inventory, some with multiple formas, I'm geared up the wazoo, still have fun wherever I go because of the parkour, I love the fast paced action I don't want to hide behind cover. They ruined infested because of all the poison and auras they are much less fun now, basically have to leave after 20 waves or so.

 

Warframe is not about thinking its about killing everything that moves. There is still T4 that gives a good challenge you could do that for the end of time also...