Weapon Mods Make The Game More Boring.

[Innocent_Flower]

So, as you travel through the solar system and the void. The enemy gets more health. You in turn give yourself more damage.  If you do It right the game is no different from what it was before. If you do it wrong you end up too strong or too weak and the game becomes boring/frustrating. 

 

How does that, in any way, make the game better? Yeah you've got that "I am now more powerful" thing going but... isn't that false? The enemy are now more powerful too. The numbers are different but the gameplay is almost precisely the same. What's worse is that you're taking 5-10 mins between each mission getting stuff prepared. 

 

(i'm aware that there are some on the forums who like not having any challenge at all. Rather than try to bring the thread down. Why not ask for an easymode? )

 

 

Seriously though. Almost all good builds are something like

+damage, for more damage

+multishot, for more damage

+ Crit  (if crit weapon) , for more damage

+ elemental damages, for more damage

 

IIt's not interesting. We might as well have weapons have a damage slider that gets bigger as you level up. 

 

I'm thinking what we need is

+ damage mods such as serration become weaker and optional meaning it'd be totaly fine to go for a bit of T4 without one. With several variations of damage mods with weaknesses or dual stats. (less rate of fire, smaller clip, more recoil etc) 

 

More specialised mods. Like "more damage against heavy enemies" or "drains own energy for more damage." 

 

- More meaning in elemental choice (and physical too). If you  were to put a harmful element into a bullet, that bullet would be less solid, it would do less physical damage. From a gameplay perspective it would mean players would need to get clever when putting elements on weapons. (Elemental bullet trails would be delightful too) 

 

- Different multishots. Dividing one bullet into  lesser projectiles, or firing two bullets and consuming two ammo. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Rorgal_Sina]

It's not about the damage and scaling. Enemy design in my opinion should come first, and the creativity is unlimited. I don't like to work with numbers, but more with the way things work.

[HAYABU5A]

arnt all games like this ? i dont know of one game that is not like this

[Tr1ples1xer]

Play nightmare mode with only one hand while gauging your eyes out, should be a fun challenge right ?

[XenoRanger]

So just like loadout? I'm not sure specializing the damage is the right way to go for it, seeing as a lot of people would prefer to mod without much thought to it. I agree that serration and split chamber feel like essential mods and that can be okay in the majority of situations, however adding more thought "optionally" to your modding would be interesting to see as well. I like the idea of elementals subtracting from physical damage but then there would be major balancing issues and the whole process would take a painstakingly long amount of time. Ultimately though, the developers would (at least I think they would) prefer to keep the game as their "love child" and are going to continue to develop it their way. While your ideas would be suitable for other games, it's hard to see said ideas being implemented in warframe. Until then we keep trying to think "how can we make this game better, yet still keep its feel?" I look forward to what the devs think up :D

[Gurzil]

This is why I was never a rhino/soma/galatine troll, ever. This is why I'm glad they took charge attacks away, and why I still use weapons other than Boltor Prime/X Super Weapon, for all missions.

 

When the game is too easy, it does get boring.. I don't get the desire to one-shot everything either.

 

This is also why I will always love my Excal because playing him even in high tier combat (without RB) is a challenge, but I still make the most of his maneuverability, and the (nearly defunct) parkour system.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Gurzil

[Katinka]

 

More specialised mods. Like "more damage against heavy enemies" or "drains own energy for more damage." 

 

 

Is that not what elements are?  Want to kill heavy Alloy Plate Grineer, use Radiation.  Want a weapon that will destroy Ancients, use Corrosive & Blast.  Want to kill hordes of Chargers, Leapers and Runners, use Gas.  All the elements are strong against certain enemies while having the disadvantage of being weaker against others.  It is then up to us to plan for what we will be facing.  Do you still get random enemy switching?  If not, that should come back so all the people loaded up for taking down Bombards and Napalms then end up facing an Infested horde and doing half damage.

[Kestral9999]

-snip-

I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

You make your own challenge. Some people are too simpleminded or lazy to do that, but that doesn't mean the game developer needs to overhaul the entire foundation of progression in the game.

[Tr1ples1xer]

This is also why I will always love my Excal because playing him even in high tier combat (without RB) is a challenge, but I still make the most of his maneuverability, and the (nearly defunct) parkour system.

Hey don't dis parkour like that, I think its brilliant, proof in your pm :P

[Kestral9999]

Hey don't dis parkour like that, I think its brilliant, proof in your pm :P

Shut up and copter!

 

:p

[Tr1ples1xer]

Shut up and copter!

 

:p

Yeah dude ! have you seen my last montage ? figured i'd video myself instead of trying to defend parkour with words.

[LordMelvin]

I think the most fun I've had with weapons is when I take off Serration. 

 

Going from one-shotting everything to requiring 3-6 shots changes the nature of the game entirely. Cover becomes a useful asset, as does drawing enemy fire and covering your allies. It's impressive actually. Going back to the FOTM build almost feels like cheating in some aspects.

 

I like the idea of altering serration to have more specific effects. Extra damage on headshots or against certain targets. Adding specific ones for certain weapons would also help balance the power, like giving sniper rifles guaranteed crits on the first headshot in a magazine (can you spell Vectis buff?!?)

 

It makes sense that elemental damage should take away from physical damage. If you're cramming all kinds of corrosive nastiness into a bullet it's going to have less punch because it'll be relying more on super acid than its own mass. The easy fix would be to have the elemental mods convert a portion of the weapon's damage (e.g. Stormbringer turns 90% of the weapons IPS damage from whatever it was into electric).

[-Vane-]

Add a hard mode at least on single player which has better drop tables. OR add a normal and challange mod to each mission. Challange missions should get a better drop table.

[Ryokuzaki]

You can make the fun yourself.

 

Ingredients:

 

1 Grinlok

1 Maxed Hush

 

Mix it with whatever you want...

And BOOM, fun.

[Archistopheles]

If you were to put a harmful element into a bullet, that bullet would be less solid, it would do less physical damage.

Another thread in which you try to change the foundation of the game. It begs the question of whether or not you truly enjoy this game, and wish it the best, or if you simply prefer different games, and you're trying to force Warframe to become one of those said games.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Another thread in which you try to change the foundation of the game. It begs the question of whether or not you truly enjoy this game, and wish it the best, or if you simply prefer different games, and you're trying to force Warframe to become one of those said games.

 

Maybe the foundation sucks. But you wouldn't even consider that, now would you?

 

EDIT- It seems the forums are turning into a fighting grounds between the "I like this game easy" crowd and the "I like this game hard" crowd. DE's only really catered to one side so far.

Edited October 16, 2014 by XanaSkullpulper

[Quizel]

Maybe the foundation sucks. But you wouldn't even consider that, now would you?

No one would play if they didn't think the foundation was fun...

 

Quite often I wish for one thing or another to make the game more engaging and less of a artificial difficulty, but I still come back the next day and say, man that was awesome. Something is being done right.

 

[Archistopheles]

Maybe the foundation sucks. But you wouldn't even consider that, now would you?

EDIT- It seems the forums are turning into a fighting grounds between the "I like this game easy" crowd and the "I like this game hard" crowd. DE's only really catered to one side so far.

I believe you may be projecting an identity upon me that's been predetermined based on the actions of others.

Re-read the quote in my response. Do you believe that "elemental bullets" should deal less physical damage? It sounds absurd in my opinion, but I didn't want to directly insult Innocent_Flower. His thoughts on the game are valued here, even if I disagree with them.

[Innocent_Flower]

But the way elements currently work, especialy for weapons that don't crit, is ADD 90% EXTRA X AND 90% EXTRA WHY AND ANOTHER 90% and now we've got an extra 360% damage (which increases massively if the right combo is used on the right enemy, let's not also forget that with dual stat mods you can go higher than 90% for each element) 

 

It's tedious to set up so many elements and it adds very little to the gameplay. If it made more sense to use only one or two ellements then the moding of weapons would be simpler and because not everyone has rainbow guns then each ellement could be worked on to have more gameplay effects (an improved status system for example)

[Archistopheles]

Exactly. Your problem is with the numbers, not the mod cards. Mods have the potential to be insanely customizable, but the current mod numbers only add up correctly one or two ways.

[notionphil]

I believe you may be projecting an identity upon me that's been predetermined based on the actions of others.

Re-read the quote in my response. Do you believe that "elemental bullets" should deal less physical damage? It sounds absurd in my opinion, but I didn't want to directly insult Innocent_Flower. His thoughts on the game are valued here, even if I disagree with them.

 

Actually, yes, I do think that elemental bullets should deal less physical damage.

 

I wish that every time I looked at the mod screen, I was faced with a plethora of qualitative, not quantitative choices.

 

I wish I were choosing between apples and oranges, or better yet, apples and chicken nuggets. Instead of apples and bigger, better apples.

 

So back to the question, yes, I'd like it if an elemental mod meant overall less damage, but a higher damage multiplier against particular enemy types and better procs. And physical damage (absence of elemental mods) meant higher overall damage, but less bonuses. or procs...I'd like that. So, I can choose to spec to min-max against a specific enemy, or build for overall damage.

 

And yes, the damage 2.0 system has some of that, but bc only specific enemy types (ancients/heavies/grineer) have high enough HP or armor to worry about given our massive DPS options, it negates the benefits of speccing for other types in most cases.

[Quizel]

 

It's tedious to set up so many elements and it adds very little to the gameplay. If it made more sense to use only one or two ellements then the moding of weapons would be simpler and because not everyone has rainbow guns then each ellement could be worked on to have more gameplay effects (an improved status system for example)

But but, ur taking the 1 non-trivial aspect of modding and trivializing it when ur OP is complaining about trivial boring modding options >.>. I'm so confused.

 

2ndly, 180% of one elemental combo and 180% of another elecombo isn't typically as good as 300% of a single ele combo. From there other various mods such as punch through or increased rate of fire can be viewed massively better than additional 90% elemental mods which doesn't provide additional bonus dmg . This is the modding depth you seem not care about or even recognize. 

 

There's a lot of subtle differences. The dread can be mod'ed like a slot machine for a smidge more viral proc chance or perhaps you just want the highest estimated dmg per shot. Latron Wraith is the only weapon I put critical delay on perfectly well knowing it's a dps loss on paper but has subtle less obvious benefits which actually vastly improve in game performance the way I use it.  CD makes recoil less of annoyance by allowing sufficient time to pass allowing the barrel to return to the proper starting height, increased time between shots isn't wasted since the time is needed to aim often, and most importantly improves the consistency of the dmg per shot.

 

The majority of modd'ing can be viewed as a no-brainer, but it's the subtle differences that make the build all that much better. The same thing used to happen in games like world of warcraft where 1 stat was weighted 5% better than another resulting in 1% overall higher dps if one gemmed/reforged that way. If you didn't gem that way you were labeled a complete noob and instantly booted even if you could justify a reason. Over 1%...in WF the differences are amplified. 

 

I could say more but I've already spent way too much time on nonsense.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Quizel

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/300913-assign-weapon-mods-to-attachment-slots/

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/312112-the-best-designed-mods-in-warframe-we-need-more-like-this/

 

A couple long-dead threads I made about this.

[Innocent_Flower]

"the majority of modding can be viewed as a no brainer"

 

Precisely. What's the point? Why bother set up cards when it'd be easier to just use a damage slider. 

[Oriviagene]

Go play without mods then :o