Weapon Mods Make The Game More Boring.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

I keep seeing "I want a challenge!" threads from folks who complain about a certain element of the game making it too easy.  If you think that piece of the game is making it too easy, then don't use it.  Take vanilla weapons into battle, scale your damage to the level of challenge that you want.  You want hard? Take all MK-1 weapons into battle and let us know how you do.

 

I, for one, want to one-shot everything.  I want to Mod the ever-loving crap out of my Vectis, until it can one-shot bosses (I don't think that's possible, but I'm just saying).  

 

When you're bored with the game, take a break from it.  Go play Destiny or Diablo, or one of the 380 million indie games that have come out lately.  Keep your ear to the ground and come back after the next update, and maybe you'll rediscover your passion for it.

[Quizel]

"the majority of modding can be viewed as a no brainer"

 

Precisely. What's the point? Why bother set up cards when it'd be easier to just use a damage slider. 

Well, the main no-brainer is serration(well base dmg mods), and its potency is locked behind many hours of grinding to max it out. (gives sense of progression-a necessary mechanic to hold interest).

 

The other would be multi-shot which for some players can take quite some effort to get. It's nice being able to use things that took effort to get. 

 

Both mods when max'ed out take up a fair amount of weapon mod capacity. You have to work to make everything fit on new weapons. It's healthy for the game to have this mechanic -> gives players essentially a purpose to keep playing.  It doesn't take too unreasonably long to max out your favorites, but maxing everything is a long journey. WF has a healthy balance of required grind and optional grind imo. 

 

And if you're having fun doing it, optional grinds aren't really even a grind.

 

Many Many many games have "damage sliders" or some equivalent built into progression.  Come to think of it, every game I play has that in some sense.  Mod cards work just fine for a damage slider. It's there for a reason. It's there because it has worked in the past. It is there because it will most likely continue to work far into the future.

[Mokkania]

Is that not what elements are?  Want to kill heavy Alloy Plate Grineer, use Radiation.  Want a weapon that will destroy Ancients, use Corrosive & Blast.  Want to kill hordes of Chargers, Leapers and Runners, use Gas.  All the elements are strong against certain enemies while having the disadvantage of being weaker against others.  It is then up to us to plan for what we will be facing.  Do you still get random enemy switching?  If not, that should come back so all the people loaded up for taking down Bombards and Napalms then end up facing an Infested horde and doing half damage.

->

More specialised mods. Like "more damage against heavy enemies" or "drains own energy for more damage." 

is the key word

 

 

 

But but, ur taking the 1 non-trivial aspect of modding and trivializing it when ur OP is complaining about trivial boring modding options >.>. I'm so confused.

 

2ndly, 180% of one elemental combo and 180% of another elecombo isn't typically as good as 300% of a single ele combo. From there other various mods such as punch through or increased rate of fire can be viewed massively better than additional 90% elemental mods which doesn't provide additional bonus dmg . This is the modding depth you seem not care about or even recognize. 

 

------

I'll sum up the situation

There is a hint of customization in the mods system

 

It is not enough

 

Another thread in which you try to change the foundation of the game. It begs the question of whether or not you truly enjoy this game, and wish it the best, or if you simply prefer different games, and you're trying to force Warframe to become one of those said games.

well I think he should probably be aware since some time

Edited October 17, 2014 by Mokkania

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Actually, yes, I do think that elemental bullets should deal less physical damage.

If elemental bullets dealt less physical damage, then this game would have to start using actual science.  Considering it calls Europa and Eris planets, I'd say actual science is out of the picture.

 

...That, and all of the warframes, infested, half the weapons...

[Archistopheles]

I wish that every time I looked at the mod screen, I was faced with a plethora of qualitative, not quantitative choices.

I wish I were choosing between apples and oranges, or better yet, apples and chicken nuggets. Instead of apples and bigger, better apples.

That was my point. Mods don't make the game more boring, the numbers do.

[Quizel]

I'll sum up the situation

There is a hint of customization in the mods system

It is not enough

I wish that every time I looked at the mod screen, I was faced with a plethora of qualitative, not quantitative choices.

I can agree with such statements (qualitative often can quickly be converted into quantitative though-and if it can't because it doesn't provide any sort of combat advantage somehow I got a feeling no one would use it much). More is almost always better >.>. Different as long as it's optional is fine.  We got a good basis for +dmg mods, now I can agree the devs could focus on fun mods-even gun specific mods to prevent balance issues.

 

A while back I saw a post about supra getting an overhaul https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/315411-petition-to-give-the-supra-infinite-ammo/?hl=supra. Just think if that change came from a mod card. I want to say the programming to make that happen wouldn't even take that long for an experience dev but getting the UI team on board to make appropriate changes might be the cumbersome-> figuring out how to display the new mechanic.

 

A whole new set of 'prime' mod-cards could be developed that radically change how a weapon works which are released each major update or when new prime frame/weapons are released. They don't have to be as sophisticated as the link above, but game changing would be a nice twist. Certainly mods can be developed to specifically affect multiple weapons like say assault riffles but not snipers/bows.

 

I just have an issue with OP.  Mods certainly add more to the game and to say otherwise is ludicrous.  I do however believe whole heartedly devs can do much more with it.

 

edit: just listened to dev stream 39, apparently weapon specific weapons are a thing for u15 >.>. +1 de 

Edited October 18, 2014 by Quizel

[fatpig84]

You can't remove numbers because that is ingrained to game.

Even in slash em ups like DMC, Ninja Gaiden, Asura's wrath etc there is a health value and damage value, they are just hidden from you.

 

So just suck it up.

And turn your focus on more "interesting weapons" :3

[DSpite]

blah blah blah ...

 

Seriously, that, is what it reads like.

 

Played Borderlands? Diablo? Torchlight? ANY games with random loot? Some COULD get a handful of rare mods. Forma, and a Boltor Prime in a straight run of 10 missions. Are you saying they are doomed?

 

I just played the latest Borderlands last night with a half decent team of 3 for about 4 hours non stop. I watched ALL the new guns that had been picked up being used. You could tell someone had something "shiny" when for a couple of levels one person was killing faster then everyone else. I saw it happen with an energy weapon, a fast fire sniper, and it happened to me when I got a continuous beam weapon that was awesome for about 3 levels, up to when the bad guys suddenly absorbed half an energy pool and did not die, and we had to quit because in those last couple of levels, we had been running the missions rather fast and the bad guys were now 2-3 levels above us but none of us had better gear. My shields were getting one shot, and no guns I had made much of a dent. I will have to go "back" into old areas just to FARM gear to return to the same spot I was at. I don't remember the game feeling "unbalanced" when I was killing things fine, but I sure as HELL remember it feeling unbalanced when I was getting insta-popped every 30 seconds.

 

Warframe is ONE game. Every game will have ceilings that will be hit when you super optimize EVERYTHING you get your hands on.

 

This game is not COMPETITIVE, it is COOP. If you are not enjoying the experience, you are doing it to yourself. You already have ALL the tools at your disposable to control the "fun factor" in any way you want, and It is not caused by OTHER PEOPLE messing with your game by killing you with "unbalance". This is like getting OP8 guns in BL2 and then complaining that when you go play with mates that do not have all the DLC's and are limited to Level 50, that your OP8 White thrash pistol can do more damage then a Level 50, Purple Rocket Launcher. How much Forma did you put on your gun? Your Frame? Why are you complaining it's so powerful?

 

You have all the Frames? All the Primes? 6 Forma in each gun? All the Void dual mods? Good for you. If you are now so totally unable to find your extra fun in this game, you need to find a different game.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/GameBreaker/Borderlands2

 

Go complain in the BL2 threads about THOSE. You will get told "then don't use those", which is exactly what you will get told here. In the meantime, this game is like 2 frigging years olds. It's a baby, so how about you let it take a few more baby steps for another year and get more balanced on it's own, and NOT open another 365 threads on "how Warframe annoyed me today".

[Innocent_Flower]

Borderlands isn't warframe. So you're realy pulling straws. However, it sounds like borderlands play involves going from one level to the next highest level, meaning everyone gets more powerful whilst you do the same. 

 

Warframe doesn't work like that. You could play T4 void and then go back to venus because it has something you want. When that happens you're going to want to spend five or so minutes working out how to appropriately nerf yourself. That isn't fun. You shouldn't need to do that to enjoy the game.  

[Lost_Cartographer]

Borderlands isn't warframe. So you're realy pulling straws. However, it sounds like borderlands play involves going from one level to the next highest level, meaning everyone gets more powerful whilst you do the same. 

 

Warframe doesn't work like that. You could play T4 void and then go back to venus because it has something you want. When that happens you're going to want to spend five or so minutes working out how to appropriately nerf yourself. That isn't fun. You shouldn't need to do that to enjoy the game.  

 

I toss on an extinquished key and have saved mod set ups for some of my favorite weapons that lack, for the most part, damage mods.  THings like serration can stay with that key equipped.

 

My favorite guns also happen to not be the FotM weapons.

 

As for customization towards end game, maybe a Latron Prime with:

 

Serration

Split Chamber

Magazine Warp

Speed Trigger

Shred

Malignant Force

High Voltage

Rime Rounds

 

...Isn't going to get me nearly as far as the FotM build, but it will get me far enough, and I find it very fun to use as a SCAR-H like battle rifle.

 

The options are there for some weapons, but people just stack on the most efficient mods and then bemoan the lack of creativity in mod builds.  I agree there isn't really room for a crit build on low crit chance/damage weapons.    This is honestly the only example I can think of where modding might be restricted.  Fire rate can always drastically improve DPS, if at the expense of ammo efficiency.  Faster reloads and greater magazine capacities is never a bad thing for continuous fire, but they don't necessarily help efficiency.  Do damage mods increase damage too much and do enemies scale too hard?  Probably.  Should these aspects be removed, preferably, but not necessarily.

 

The mod system is there to allow us to customize our experience.  Don't complain if you pick the easy mode setups and things become too easy.

[DSpite]

Borderlands isn't warframe. So you're realy pulling straws. However, it sounds like borderlands play involves going from one level to the next highest level, meaning everyone gets more powerful whilst you do the same. 

 

Warframe doesn't work like that. You could play T4 void and then go back to venus because it has something you want. When that happens you're going to want to spend five or so minutes working out how to appropriately nerf yourself. That isn't fun. You shouldn't need to do that to enjoy the game.  

 

 

It's a coop game. The balance does NOT have to be knife-edge-thin BECAUSE we are not using the gear on each other. YOU are not enjoying the game, everyone else seems to be doing fine. This game does not revolve around having every item being "fair" when used on other HUMAN players, it revolves about being interesting enough to be used and that is ALL it needs to do.

 

Pulling straws? You serious? Do you even read your OWN topics? Go back and see what you keep complaining about. I'm starting to suspect you simply start topics just to get attention.

 

Please explain why any topic you start needs to be taken seriously when you have started this one topic:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/273464-ive-won-the-game/ - "I've won the game"

 

This would be me saying "I have every single top tier drop in game X, the game is now boring", and then you said:

 

"I can play other online shooters and not feel like 'I've won and there's nothing else to achieve'"

 

Seriously? "Other online shooters"? As in multiple other shooters, and I'm not allowed to compare WF to BL? Really?

 

Again, I will ask you, why are you even here? You have "won the game", so is it not time to move on? Here is a though, start again. Oh yea, sorry, now that you "have everything", going back to "not having it" is "nerfing yourself", and NO ONE out there in the gaming world does replays of games.

 

My bad.

[KirukaChan]

I just want to see more tactical alerts. Building for those every so often keeps things fresh.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

It's a coop game. The balance does NOT have to be knife-edge-thin BECAUSE we are not using the gear on each other. YOU are not enjoying the game, everyone else seems to be doing fine. This game does not revolve around having every item being "fair" when used on other HUMAN players, it revolves about being interesting enough to be used and that is ALL it needs to do.

 

Except, we had 1000000 topics of "Nova keeps nuking entire rooms so I can't do S#&$" and "Boltor Prime/Soma wipes entire rooms so I can't do S#&$" and "P4TW frames mean I have **** all to do in missions"

 

So no, the system isn't fine the way it is. And WF doesn't need your defending. The people who made it are grown adults, and they can survive their product being criticized, ya whiny fanboy.

[Rekkou]

My Soma is a fast burst assault rifle, my Boltor Prime is a suppressive light machine gun, my Tiberon is a 6 pellets shotgun, my Lex Prime handles like handgun instead of hand cannon.

 

Modding is only as boring as your lack of creativity. Modding in warframe allow you to change a weapon to a completely different weapon, yet you only complain about damage, and your idea is just about different kind of damage.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

My Soma is a fast burst assault rifle, my Boltor Prime is a suppressive light machine gun, my Tiberon is a 6 pellets shotgun, my Lex Prime handles like handgun instead of hand cannon.

 

Modding is only as boring as your lack of creativity. Modding in warframe allow you to change a weapon to a completely different weapon, yet you only complain about damage, and your idea is just about different kind of damage.

 

Let's take your gun examples. It doesn't matter how your Soma/BP/LP handles if, in the time it takes you to kill an enemy, an ally has already beaten you to it. That's why everyone runs damage, to keep up with everyone else. To feel like they're actually contributing. Because watching someone else kill everything in the room is boring.

 

To all of you saying "Challenge yourself", I am. I'm running an MK1-Braton, and it takes a good 5-10 seconds of sustained fire to kill a target. And you know what? It doesn't matter at all. Because my allies aren't doing the same. In the time it takes me to kill 1 enemy, my teammate has killed 5. All I'm doing is gimping myself, and making it so that I could have gone AFK and been as useful to the team as I am now.

Edited October 20, 2014 by XanaSkullpulper

[Rekkou]

Let's take your gun examples. It doesn't matter how your Soma/BP/LP handles if, in the time it takes you to kill an enemy, an ally has already beaten you to it. That's why everyone runs damage, to keep up with everyone else. To feel like they're actually contributing. Because watching someone else kill everything in the room is boring.

 

To all of you saying "Challenge yourself", I am. I'm running an MK1-Braton, and it takes a good 5-10 seconds of sustained fire to kill a target. And you know what? It doesn't matter at all. Because my allies aren't doing the same. In the time it takes me to kill 1 enemy, my teammate has killed 5. All I'm doing is gimping myself, and making it so that I could have gone AFK and been as useful to the team as I am now.

 

Nope, my Soma kills faster, because i speed up the wind up time. I kill much faster than other damage focused Soma which still fires its 2nd round when i finished a full burst.

 

On Boltor Prime, i purposely modded it to be a support weapon to knockdown a horde of enemies, so people taking my kills is exactly my intention.

 

My Lex Prime handles crowd much better because it has small recoils which allow sustained shot to be fired much faster and easily.

 

There are 8 slots, and handling modding will only take you like 1-2 slots. The damage difference is far from self gimping.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Nope, my Soma kills faster, because i speed up the wind up time. I kill much faster than other damage focused Soma which still fires its 2nd round when i finished a full burst.

 

On Boltor Prime, i purposely modded it to be a support weapon to knockdown a horde of enemies, so people taking my kills is exactly my intention.

 

My Lex Prime handles crowd much better because it has small recoils which allow sustained shot to be fired much faster and easily.

 

There are 8 slots, and handling modding will only take you like 1-2 slots. The damage difference is far from self gimping.

 

First off, your starting statement is pure hyperbole. Stop that. It does you a disservice.

 

Second off, not everyone is specifically gunning for a support role. In fact, I'd say most don't. Hence why mods like Serration are a no-brainer whenever mod loadouts are considered. You don't exactly see mobs of players running proc-based grakatas, now do you?

 

As for handling mods, 1-2 slots is 9-18 or so energy. Even out of 60, that's a significant chunk.

[Rekkou]

First off, your starting statement is pure hyperbole. Stop that. It does you a disservice.

 

Second off, not everyone is specifically gunning for a support role. In fact, I'd say most don't. Hence why mods like Serration are a no-brainer whenever mod loadouts are considered. You don't exactly see mobs of players running proc-based grakatas, now do you?

 

As for handling mods, 1-2 slots is 9-18 or so energy. Even out of 60, that's a significant chunk.

 

What hyperbole? don't make up something if you can't do proper argument

 

Many people not using something implies unpopularity, procs Grakata is a very viable weapon.

 

That's what polarities and forma are for.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

Right tool for the right job.  I take my hushed Vectis into extermination missions (especially when I need to solo) and I take my Vulkar into survival missions on Venus when I need to farm for circuits.  As great as the Vectis is, it will never have a magazine capacity greater than 2; my Vulkar will one-shot every Corpus on Venus, and I can take down a small squad if I'm aiming properly.

 

The name of the game, ladies and gentlemen, is crowd control.  Any gun can drop pretty much any standard enemy one-on-one, but how often does that situation really come up unless you're in stealth mode?

 

Jus' Sayin' :)

[Xana_Skullsunder]

What hyperbole? don't make up something if you can't do proper argument

 

Many people not using something implies unpopularity, procs Grakata is a very viable weapon.

 

That's what polarities and forma are for.

 

I'm not making anything up, Mr. "I can fire a full burst before the other guy fires his second shot."

[Rekkou]

I'm not making anything up, Mr. "I can fire a full burst before the other guy fires his second shot."

 

Never tried Soma with Speed Trigger + Shred? In a single trigger pull you can easily fires 3 shots while with normal Soma the wind up will make 2nd shot slower.

 

So yeah, it's possible to fire a full burst before a Soma can fire its second shot.

[Innocent_Flower]

That burst fire soma is really more of a product of faulty thinking than an attempt to create a powerful weapon. Ammo inefficient and... why not just use a burst fire gun? 

 

 

And that's a problem too. There's a right way to mod something. The only subjectivity you get is what element you use and even that's not fully a subjective choice (since some are simply better than others) 

[Rekkou]

That burst fire soma is really more of a product of faulty thinking than an attempt to create a powerful weapon. Ammo inefficient and... why not just use a burst fire gun? 

 

 

And that's a problem too. There's a right way to mod something. The only subjectivity you get is what element you use and even that's not fully a subjective choice (since some are simply better than others) 

 

You complain about damage modding being the only way of modding. I show different way to mod but then you said i'm wrong to do so?

 

Basically, you're saying people are wrong if they didn't follow you. But if people did follow you, then you will complain about it?

 

Glad i wasted my time on this one. At least i know i don't have to bother anymore with any thread you'll make in the future.

[Innocent_Flower]

Game is set up so that there's a "right way" (as much damage as possible) and a wrong way (stuff related to not doing as much damage as possible) At least if you want to play at a high level.

 

The game shouldn't be like that. Mods should be about preferences and tradeoffs. 

[Rekkou]

Game is set up so that there's a "right way" (as much damage as possible) and a wrong way (stuff related to not doing as much damage as possible) At least if you want to play at a high level.

 

The game shouldn't be like that. Mods should be about preferences and tradeoffs. 

 

And that's exactly what i did, i prioritize fire rate for faster killing with ammo inefficiency as trade off. And i still did very well at high level.

 

All of this right or wrong way is just something blown up out of proportion to justify your whining.