Warframe Ability Mods: Coming Changes

[Ashnal]

That's just plain unfortunate. I had SEVERAL builds which required those extra slots which are being taken away. I usually only use one or maybe two of the warframe powers. I unequip the ones I won't be using so I don't accidentally trigger them. Then I forma those slots so they can be useful. Now I'm going to lose some of those slots and I'll be forced to equip things I will never use and will accidentally trigger ALL OF THE TIME.

 

(not to mention the fact now I have to go through and rebuild all of my existing warframe loadouts)

 

!!!PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE at least give us the ability to disable powers we're never going to use!!!!

How do you accidentally trigger an ability? Do you fat finger the keys all the time? I've never had an issue with this myself >_>

 

I honestly don't see an issue with having all abilities equipped all the time. Also, the only builds that you would lose anything from are one ability builds. Any build that was two ability or more is gaining power.

[Ashnal]

What about sentinel and kubrow ability mods?

 

Cause frame ability mods wasn't the only thing clogging the mod drop pipes.

And also in name of consistency, it's obvious abilities on sentinels and kubrows should work the same way as frames.

Ehhhh. There's a bit of a difference here. See, there are a number of people who like to have a sentinel with no attack precept. If you forced them to have it, they might get pretty upset at their sentinel killing things they wanted to melee for example. This isn't as big of an issue with Kubrows, but having the choice of what abilities to slot in what order allows players to customize their behavior.

[413X]

How do you accidentally trigger an ability? Do you fat finger the keys all the time? I've never had an issue with this myself >_>

 

I honestly don't see an issue with having all abilities equipped all the time. Also, the only builds that you would lose anything from are one ability builds. Any build that was two ability or more is gaining power.

 

I'm guessing like me he uses the mousewheel to cast and select abilities. Click to cast, scroll to select. When you unequip an ability, the scrollwheel bypasses them and goes right to the next quipped ability. If you only have 1 ability on that stays locked in focus and cannot be scrolled away from. This makes it function like a "panic-button" for 1 ability frames.

 

I'm astonished at the number of warframe users who aren't aware that you can cast spells or select them with the mousewheel. (Assuming of course, that this is the basis for your question and that you weren't aware of this feature, considered it and disregarded the possibility as being unlikely).

[Rydian]

Ehhhh. There's a bit of a difference here. See, there are a number of people who like to have a sentinel with no attack precept. If you forced them to have it, they might get pretty upset at their sentinel killing things they wanted to melee for example. This isn't as big of an issue with Kubrows, but having the choice of what abilities to slot in what order allows players to customize their behavior.

This is a big point for Helios.  A lot of people remove his attack precept in order to prevent him from killing targets he should be scanning.

[Ashnal]

I'm guessing like me he uses the mousewheel to cast and select abilities. Click to cast, scroll to select. When you unequip an ability, the scrollwheel bypasses them and goes right to the next quipped ability. If you only have 1 ability on that stays locked in focus and cannot be scrolled away from. This makes it function like a "panic-button" for 1 ability frames.

 

I'm astonished at the number of warframe users who aren't aware that you can cast spells or select them with the mousewheel. (Assuming of course, that this is the basis for your question and that you weren't aware of this feature, considered it and disregarded the possibility as being unlikely).

I did know you could do it, but since I don't actually play using that feature, I had never considered that interface behavior. Thanks for helping me understand that.

 

I.... don't know how to reconcile that issue. Being able to disable abilities seems a little superflous and counter-intuitive to someone whos never played using that interface. Not to mention it would add interface complexity to wherever they put it in the arsenal.

 

In the end I think those people will just have to adapt to the interface change, or switch over to using the hotkeys.

[AntLion]

Middleclicking with the mouse to cast an ability is pretty fast actually. Double lol. (it's only scrolling to select abilities that gets a bit tricky).

Yeah, if you want to break your mouse wheel faster.

Also using wheel you need to remove finger from fire button (lmb).

And again, selecting abilities is tricky only for those who have one-button-spam thinking. Try to learn using more skills.

Hotkeys are better solution.

 

PS: I only could agree that 9+1 slots is better than 8+1 slots. But if DE think that 8+1 is more balanced - so be it.

Edited October 18, 2014 by AntLion

[Ashnal]

It appears that removing the abilities will also remove their COST in terms of mod points.

So everyone with maxed warframes could have too many mod points.

Players will probably want to be able to remove useless formas, think about it DE.

That's a little OCD don't ya think? It doesn't hurt the frame any to have extra forma in it.

 

Besides, can you imagine the nightmare it would be to figure out who deserves extra forma back and who doesn't? Isn't that based on the specific build of the frame? What kind of data could you reference to make that distinction? You would basically have to refund every single forma ever spent on every warframe with a legendary version that can be spent without the level reset to please everybody.

 

I mean, that kind of sounds a bit overkill if you remember the Legendary Cores thing.

[Crewell]

I think this is a great change. I'm not sure if just adding 2 slots is good though. It will still leave many mods unused. It may be nicer to assign the two new slots for specialty uses like resist mods or master thief.

[Keltik0ne]

I'm not 100% keen on this: all the frames I extensively use have at least 1 junk ability that no sane person would even think of equipping. In fact, like many posters in the thread, this will be an overall loss of 1 mod for my most commonly used builds.

 

Saying that, I liked the system before the mod cards were introduced.

[(PSN)jwernecke]

Okay I think I've made my peace with this. Forget the legendary forma and crap. Give me my formas with a 7 day affinity booster and I'll handle the rest. If you can't fix your stuff with 7 days of double xp then you should sell your gaming apparatus because you suck and are clearly not dedicated enough. GO DE!

[Ashnal]

Well goodbye one trick ponies. You all dumbed down the game anyway.

They will surely still exist. They will just have one less mod slot to work with.

 

I can imagine they will still play much the same, they'll just have to remember to not touch the other ability hotkeys.

[Polar87]

Sweet dreams, sweet prince:

 

You were fun, when you could be

Edited October 18, 2014 by polar1987

[NotoMaru]

What about prime frames?

 

Atm. we can sell/delete a frame and save the maxed ability mods for the primed frame. How is this working after the change?

 

Let's say i have a Loki with maxed abilities and i get a Loki Prime, do i have to level up the abilities again for the Loki Prime or will they share the same ability-panel so i don't have to level abilities again?

 

How about deleting/selling my Loki (to make space for the prime) before getting my Loki Prime from the foundry, do the abilities stay maxed? Do i have to level them again?

Edited October 18, 2014 by NotoMaru

[Awezomenezz]

NOTE: If you had already maxed or ranked Ability Mods, you will not be affected by this. This applies for newly acquired Warframes post Update 15.

What about unranked or even unused abilities?

For example I think I've never used, ranked or maybe even equipped Oberon's 2-4 but I do have him and used his 1 a bit but not ranked it up. Will all those, only the 1 or none be max rank after the change?

[413X]

Yeah, if you want to break your mouse wheel faster.

Also using wheel you need to remove finger from fire button (rmb).

And again, selecting abilities is tricky only for those who have one-button-spam thinking. Try to learn using more skills.

Hotkeys are better solution.

 

PS: I only could agree that 9+1 slots is better than 8+1 slots. But if DE think that 8+1 is more balanced - so be it.

 

Lol, how is it going to break your mousewheel faster. This is what it's designed for. Do you completely ignore your mousewheel when surfing the Internet?

 

And the default is LMB for fire and RMB for zoom, you hardly need to zoom while casting abilities except in the case of maybe Ash's Bladestorm or Loki's switch teleport.

 

Also, maybe you should get good and learn to survive without needing to pack 4 abilities at the same time like some security blanket. If it's weak of me to even need just 1 ability, then aren't you're even weaker still for needing to rely on FOUR of them. Lol. Maybe you're the one who needs to be better at playing this game? Simply using all four abilities is hardly the sign of a pro-player. And having only 1 ability equipped doesn't mean that it's going to be spammed. Just that it might come in handy in emergency situations where guns and melee aren't enough.

 

Seriously, this constant parroting of 1 ability users = ability spammers = inferior players is just inane. You have no better argument to fall back on than a ham-handed infantile attempt at character assassination? Yawn.

[Phoenix86]

gogo everyone rank up ur skills for massive fusion cores gain xD

[Tveoh]

Which slots will be removed? I would like to be able to make sure the polarities I want are staying ^.^

 

if i had to guess the two on the far right end.    but could be the ones of the left to @_@.  

[SoulEchelon]

ROFL, this dude -

 

Every time you start a post with "ROFL THIS DUDE" I lose all interest in continuing to read it.

 

Learn some etiquette and proper debate tactics.

Edited October 18, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[Uchia18]

Uchia like :3

[RadYogh]

3. "But I don't slot more than 1 power. THIS CHANGE SUCKS!  I HATE DE!!!"  Get over it.  The Warframes were designed to have all four abilities, so really you're gaining 2 mod slots.  People back this up with Desecrate Nekros, Molecular-Prime Nova, and Radial-Blind Excalibur, among other things.  Desecrate Nekros should at least have Terrify on as a panic button.  Nova should have Antimatter Drop for when you just need to nuke a group of enemies before they murder you.  Radial-Blind Excalibur should at least have Slash Dash to get out of corners.  This change isn't nerfing the "high end" (spam-one-ability noobs).  It's giving extra slots to anybody who plays Warframe as Warframe instead of some generic shooter.

Seriously, I thought the same about "2nd" ability in the situations that you have mentioned... long time ago... but it's completely useless.

 

So... My Nekros Desecrate build (for example):

0. Desecrate - maxed.

1. Fleeting Expertise, Streamline, Overextended, Natural Talent - all maxed, except Streamline.

2. Vitality, Rage, Quick Thinking, Equilibrium, Flow - all maxed, base survivability & energy restore features

3. Energy Siphon Aura - maxed, used 99.9% of time on all frames, except builds without abilities at all.

 

So, what I have in the end: maxed energy effeciency, 40% power strength, 40% power duration... Terrify just doesn't do anything with stats like this... Few mobs turn around for a moment and that's it. 

I don't have extra slots. I need all that mods to constantly cast desecrate - even with maxed power effeciency and maxed energy I don't have enough energy, I absolutely need rage and equilibrium to refill it and without quick thinking I would die too often because I need to recieve HP damage to restore energy. I need overextended to cover bigger area, or I'll have to move around the area quickly, and you can't cast while moving (only small jumps are possible while casting, but this way you move REALY slow), if you doesn't constantly cast - everyone get less loot. Without natural talent you're missiong some corpses from time to time, also Natural Talent sometimes allows you to 'desecrate' one corpse multiple times, especially if there are few nekroses spamming desecrate.

 

... Regarding Excalibur's Slash Dash - why are you it if you have slide attack? Use Dual Zoren or Scoliac or some other melee with decent slide attack - it is much better than Slash Dash.

 

... Regarding Nova's Antimatter Drop - is it useful at all?

1. It does Radiation damage - most mobs are resistant to it, and it's just pointless you need to put in a few millions of damage to make it work if you're not fighting against lowlvl mobs that die in one shot of almost any weapon.

2. It is hard to use - you need to cast it, then you need to control it with your crosshair and also you need to shoot it at the same time to make it deal some damage.

3. With Nova's build for defense missions (minimal power strength, maximum duration) it may be useful, because there is usualy a Voban gathering mobs in one spot... but if it is a build with maxed power strength and duration it usualy has very crappy ability range what makes Antimatter Drop absolutely pointless.

4. Why do you need such a thing if you have Ogris, Torid, Penta and other AoE weapons? They work much better than Antimatter Drop.

 

So, my Nova builds for example:

 

- Slowing

0. Molecular Prime - maxed.

1. Intensify, Blind Rage - maxed.

2. Narrow Minded, Continuity, Constitution - maxed.

3. Fleeting Expertise, Streamline, Flow - maxed.

4. Natural Talent - maxed. (Yeah, it saves your life.)

5. Energy Siphon - maxed.

 

So, this is 1 ability mods and 9 mods for this ability.

You may ask "Why no hp/shield mods?", but why do you need them if highlvl mobs would kill you in one hit anyway? In other cases you can avoif getting damge, because it slows down enemies. Natural Talent is required, so you don't get killed while casting this ability. (All abilities cast realy slow by default, and you can't do a thing while your frame is casting.) Flow is also required - reduces a chance to get caught without any energy to cast M-Prime, because Blind Rage doesn't allow to max the energy effeciency.

 

- Accelerating

0. Molecular Prime - maxed.

1. Overextended, Stretch - maxed. (Overextended to decrease power strength, Stretch is just a nice addition - not required so much.)

2. Narrow Minded, Constitution, Continuity - maxed.

3. Rage, Quick Thinking, Flow - maxed, except Flow (lvl2, need to polarize one more slot to max Flow). (Rage + Quick Thinking are used to avoid some accedental deaths, works a way better than just HP/Shields, and sometimes allows you to restore energy from HP damage.)

4. Streamline - maxed. (Not using Fleeting Expertise, because it reduces power duration, which isn't good for some defense missions with big maps.)

5. Energy Siphon - maxed.

 

Only Stretch can be replaced here... Antimatter Drop could be useful but it is too hard to use, plus it will still be useless against highlvl enemies and with those you would use Dread (not sure it is possible to charge Antimatter Drop with arrows) or Ogris/Penta/Torid/... (they are doing AoE damage by default)

 

Let's also mention Vauban:

- If you're maxing Vortex then your bastille would be useless (it won't hold almost any enemies).

- If you're maxing Bastille then your vortex would cost too much and won't have a good range. (And anyway - it can't hold enough enemies...)

Other skills are useless... Tesla does no damge to highlvl mobs, no matter how much power strenght you have, and regarding the lowlvl stuff - it only somewhat damages corpus units... Plus you need to stay in one location to make a use of Vauban's powers, and that means defense or at least survival, and that means - highlvl mobs... And uselessnes of a jumping pad doesn't even worth mentioning...

 

I can find more examples when 3-4 mods would be a way more useful than 3-4 warframe powers, especially with highlvl enemies. And you don't realy need that many mods, powers and other stuff with lowlvl mobs. Almost all missions (except defense/survival/?excavation?) with about any frame with random set of mods(or none mods at all) and with a single decent weapon rank 30 (without additional polarizations and orokin catalyst), many can be done with lvl 0 frame and any weapon. But when it comes to defense/survival missions you realy need to focus on one warframe power.

[Ronyn]

Sweet dreams, sweet prince: Desecrate nekros

 

You were fun, when you could be

 

So... My Nekros Desecrate build (for example):

 

A frame that does nothing special but make bodies drop more stuff....

come on you have to know that is not what the devs were going for when they made him. 

 

We shouldnt be trying to get DE to let us have one trick ponies.

We should be trying to get DE to make sure that all abilities on the frames are actually good.

[RadYogh]

A frame that does nothing special but make bodies drop more stuff....

come on you have to know that is not what the devs were going for when they made him. 

But there is no point in nekros then. I don't get ppl who use nekros on defence/survival missions and doesn't constantly spam 3rd spell. 

Realy... Nekros is good only for one thing: stand still without shooting anything and constantly spamming 3rd skill. This is the best use for nekros. This is the way of TRUE Nekros!

Edited October 18, 2014 by RadYogh

[Naftal]

We shouldnt be trying to get DE to let us have one trick ponies.

We should be trying to get DE to make sure that all abilities on the frames are actually good.

We should be trying to get DE to allow us more overall customizability WITHOUT preventing anything we can do now.

[413X]

Every time you start a post with "ROFL THIS DUDE" I lose all interest in continuing to read it.

 

Learn some etiquette and proper debate tactics.

 

ROFL. Guy who can't even defend his position in proper debate asks opponent to learn debating tactics. Okay, I guess that was your attempt to leave in a huff after being shot down multiple times in a row. Good try.

[letir]

Most abilities are useless anyway. Or they will be sacrficed for "main" abilities. Waframe need massive ability revamp.

Edited October 18, 2014 by letir