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Warframe Ability Mods: Coming Changes


[DE]Rebecca
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I am happy with extra slots available for mods but still have question: 

 

1. Do we have control on skill ranks we would like to use? I mean if I ranked one skill maxed, could I choose to use rank 1 in my build instead of max rank? And of course eventually turn off the skills?

 

2. How does the conversion of skill mod and fusion core takes place? In terms of the XP that can ranked up the skill mod or simiply the rarity of the skill mod?

 

3. Prime and not prime. Do I need to re-train the skill in a Prime warframe while I actually maxed that skill in non prime counterparts? 

 

4. For the warframes I've not yet obtained, if I have a maxed rank skill mod of those warframes, after the update and I obtain those warframes, do I need to retrained the skill or simply have a maxed rank skill?

 

EDIT: 

5. Do we need to retrain the skill if we forma'd a warframe?

 

And I suggest not to spread this change to companions unless proper design is considered for the general skills, the skill choices and the order for the companions to use which skill first. 

Edited by Xerubium
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So they will be able to tell which ability slots had been forma'd in order to give us forma back... why not just assign the polarity being removed to another slot? Or better yet, give us the option to reassign all of the polarities we had on the ability slots. I'm not a fan of having to re-level my warframes to get a polarity back that I already spent hours on to get. Or just remove 2 empty slots and let us keep our polarized ones. It's a great change to move abilities away from mods, but horrible implementation by making us lose 2 slots we spent time re-polarizing. 

 

At least tell us which 2 slots are being removed, so we can move our polarities to other slots before the update!

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I'm surprised that no one from DE has replied in this thread yet, there clearly are a lot of questions and issues with this change and yet, no official statement.

 

I just hope they talk to us about this before we end up having it shoved in our faces and everyone having even more problems.

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I'm surprised that no one from DE has replied in this thread yet, there clearly are a lot of questions and issues with this change and yet, no official statement.

 

I just hope they talk to us about this before we end up having it shoved in our faces and everyone having even more problems.

 

I don't believe any of the devs are normally at work on the weekends. So while they can visit the forums, they can't really give anything official - thus they are more than likely refraining from doing so until they can.

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Ok this sounds great as I have replaced several Warframe Ability slots in order to get in additional Mods. We should receive 1 built Forma for every Ability slot we have replaced no matter which one we replaced . Take for instance I have moved my Polaritys around so I can no longer tell whether it was say 1 from the top row and 1 from the bottom row. In addition, the compensation for the Ability Mods should be as follows 3 Rare 5's for a Rare Mod, 2 Rare 5's for a Uncommon and 1 Rare 5' for a common. The reason for this, its simple, that's the amount of those cores that I had to use to max out those Ability Mods in the first place. So it seems perfectly fair to receive this as compensation. Thanks for time if you read this!!!!!!!

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.keep 10+1 slots

.just remove all = polarities

.no refund or compensation needed

.60+14 mod capacity still makes sense

.everyone happy

 

if the skillselection is not toggleable we need that extra mod space anyhow to salvage the otherwise gimped skills on most builds. we don't just arbitraily remove skills because we need that modspace, but moreso because our choice of corrupted mods further limits the usage of 2nd tier skills.

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DE please consider the time it takes to level up a warframe to re-forma it again.

 

I know you guys are going to reimburse our formas but not the time spent levelling up the frames. So please consider an appropriate compensation for those who spent considerable time on those frames.

 

Also I do see a penalty for frames that only use 1 ability and use the other 9 slots for other mods. I now know that those who have that kind of build will be penalised with this update.

 

eg: Desecrate build Nekros.. Hysteria Valkyr, Prime Nova, Globe Frost etc..

Edited by djuice_
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I think we need to know more about the max leveling of the new abilities. Like everyone else I have invested time and money into this game and am currently Mastery Rank 16 nearly 17 atm, I have all the warframes and have leveled them in different ways. Having spent a long time doing so. Now you saying all my abilities for each warframe start unranked again - when I have invested fusion cores, duplicates, same mods to leveling up the abilities mods. Is there going to be compensation for that? Because that cost credits as well.

 

I think to be fair, the idea of it is interesting but needs more thought first. As Mastery Rank should be taken into consideration, expecially if you still have the warframe stuck in your slots. Also, the ability mod enhancements you place on your warframe can have detremental effects on some abilities or are mutualy exclusive of each other. So in effect when other tenno were removing warframe abilites it was because of this. For Instance I have a 6 forma'ed Nekros that only has 1 ability either Descrate or Shadows of the Dead, Descrate is range and Shadows of the Dead it time not range - they dont work together.

 

Just giving people a forma back is not compensation. My Nekros build you would give me back 3 forma as I only run 1 ability slot, but then I would loose a overall slot that I cant place one of my mods in - completely destroying my build.

 

Maybe the way to go would be produce something like http://warframe-builder.com/ so we can see what ournew builds would be like - as annoying the hell out of long term players just to get some more people in, isn't the brightest thing to do.

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8 mod slots would be a little disaster for few frames. For example, vauban's build should be based on vortex or bastile, what means i will have one slot less to put proper mod. The same with frost's goble, ember's world of fire, nova's build w/o antimatter drop, current excalibur's radial blind, nekros pure desacrate build. Why i'm crying? Most frames have useful max 2 skills. Builds with only one skill will lose 1 slot to make frame stronger (10 slots - 9 mods, 1 skill). Think about coming changes and don't take away our chances to beat records and go hard :D

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Oh wowowowowow, wait wait wait DE, stop right there! While the removal of abilitiy mods is great and such, looking at most of my warframes makes me really DISLIKE those coming changes. Most of my warframes are one-trick-ponies. My Nekros is completly dedicated to desecrating, Nova is there for her M-Prime and so on. So currently I have 1 aura slot + 10 mod slots. 1 mod slot is reseverd for the ability leaving me with 9 mod slots to modify my warframe and the ability. While this is a pretty tight fit for most of my builds allready you are now going to reduce the mod slots I can use to modify my stuff to 8? Great! This is by FAR the WORST nerf EVER!

Have you guys even thought this through? Why are you punishing us with every change you make?

Thanks, but no thanks I would rather keep the ability mods than having them removed with the current way you want to implement it.

One trick pony...

 

And here is the main reasons DE has decided to implement this change. The reason why we use these builds in the first place is because we have to pick using a slot for an ability or an extra mod, in which most cases the abilities lose by a large margin. 

 

However, this change eliminates that and let's our frames actually use all of their abilities without compromise. This will allow for our frames to be played as they were meant, with their full complementary skill set. 

 

So go forth tenno and experiment with abilities caked in layers of dust! 

 

(maybe a nova will discover portals for the first time and learn the TRUE POWER OF MOBILITY!!!)

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One trick pony...

 

And here is the main reasons DE has decided to implement this change. The reason why we use these builds in the first place is because we have to pick using a slot for an ability or an extra mod, in which most cases the abilities lose by a large margin. 

 

However, this change eliminates that and let's our frames actually use all of their abilities without compromise. This will allow for our frames to be played as they were meant, with their full complementary skill set. 

 

So go forth tenno and experiment with abilities caked in layers of dust! 

 

(maybe a nova will discover portals for the first time and learn the TRUE POWER OF MOBILITY!!!)

 

 

Not really, when you mod for one ability it will sometimes negatively effect other abilities, for example, if you mod M-Prime for max potential with maximum duration you will reduce the range of your wormhole from 50m to 17m, there are other frames where if you want to maximise the ability to perform it's best you will basically reduce your other abilities to near useless, aka Nekros Desecrate, reduction of SotD duration and strength..

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If we loose a slot which we polarized we will recieve a forma....?!! thats all?! we loose all the time for each warframe we wasted to polarize 4-6 times?

In my oppinion they should give us the forma back as a''legendary forma'' where the slots will be polarized but the weapon/warframe wont be lvl 0 again.

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Once fully ranked a skill we have, we need! to be allowed to set it higher or lower rank at will somehow...

Because some skills work better at lower ranks and this system would screw up all that.

 

We need the ability to choose at which rank a skill gotta work ONCE we unlocked all ranks of it.

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See guys. That's the problem right there. This feels a lot like arguing over scraps instead of demanding we get a real meal.

 

If the only or best (as in the most useful according to the community) use for Nekros is just the guy who turns bodies into pinatas....

that is actually a pretty messed up frame who needs some work.

I don't agree with fighting to keep Nekros ability to be a one trick pony. I insist that DE make Nekros more than just that. Make him what he is meant to be. Customization comes from REAL options and multiple viable choices.

 

Look... Nekros has an unique ability that allows him to multiply loot.

Only one possible change that I see can be done to turn nekros from frame that only spams desecrate to something different:

remove that ability (which would make allmost all Nekros users VERY unhappy, because it was the only thing why they bothered polarizing slots and used it) or turn this ability into an 'aura' or something, which would constantly drain some mana and will 100% get additional drop from mobs, so this would allow nekros to move and use other abilities. You can't turn nekros into something different without modifying this ability... or you'll have to change too many things around this ability to make it work different, or give such ability to drones or other frames.

 

Plus - we're not speaking about particular things regarding warframes, about their abilities and other things.

We're speaking about removing 2 mod slots from warframes. Removing these slots is just WRONG!

Warframes and weapons need more slots for stuff, because there are tons of mods, and 80% of them are useless, since there are always few mods that are better and you put them into all available slots.

 

I've already made a few examples of warframes builds above and here are few words about weapons:

 

Almost all my primary weapon builds look like this:

- 3 or 4 V polarities

- 1 or 2 "--" polarities

(5-6 polarities in total)

Base damage mods: Serration, Split Chamber, Heavy Caliber and|or Shred and|or Speed Trigger

Elemental mods: Stormbringer, Infected Clip (in some cases I also add Maligant Force/High Voltage/Cryo Rounds/Hellfire)

Utility mods: Fast Hands (on weapons with slow reload speed and if i'm not going against highlvl enemies)

Crit mods (for lanka, dread, paris prime, soma...): Vital Sense, Point Strike (and in rare cases I also use Hammer Shot, but usualy it is better to add another elemental mod)

 

Almost all secondary:

 

- 3 or 4 V polarities

- 1 or 2 "--" polarities

(5-6 polarities in total)

Base damage mods: Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent

Elemental mods: Convulsion, Patogen Rounds (in some cases I also add Jolt/Pistol Pestilence/Frostbite/Heated Charge)

Utility mods: Quickdraw (on weapons with slow reload speed and if i'm not going against highlvl enemies), Seeker (rarely)

Crit mods (for Brakk, Akmagnus): Pistol Gambit, Target Cracker

 

Melee builds also look pretty similar, using only like 10-16 mods + stances.

 

There is no balance in weapons, mods and other things - it is somewhat linear progression, where sometimes some things have alternative that are about 'same' powerful. It is pity that there are many weapons that have interesting mechanics, but they require to use too many utility mods which in the end leads to very low weapon damage and turns weapons into useless crap.

Regarding the warframe powers - there are corrupted mods, that buff something and debuff something else - with these mods you usualy can only make 1-2 abilities useful because negative effects would completely fuckup other abilities.

 

What's better Hornet Strike that adds 220% of damage or Sure Shot that adds 15% to status chance (not pure +15, but *1.15 -- turns 10% chance into 11.5% - yeah that's A LOT!...)?

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I just find it boring to play a game with only one ability, I'm not enjoying it at all if I only take desecrate and can't use anything else..

Now I will have all the Nekros abilities +1 more slot for optimizing without use of any formas...

 

It's not "inexperience", it's just a really boring way to play, going thrugh a mission and spamming Molecular Prime...

It's a great thing that abilities will be a "must have" now, you don't have to use them if you don't find them usefull, BUT:

Using Forma on ability slots is just an abuse, it was never meant to be that way, and I am glad DE will make it impossible now :)

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I just find it boring to play a game with only one ability, I'm not enjoying it at all if I only take desecrate and can't use anything else..

Now I will have all the Nekros abilities +1 more slot for optimizing without use of any formas...

 

It's not "inexperience", it's just a really boring way to play, going thrugh a mission and spamming Molecular Prime...

It's a great thing that abilities will be a "must have" now, you don't have to use them if you don't find them usefull, BUT:

Using Forma on ability slots is just an abuse, it was never meant to be that way, and I am glad DE will make it impossible now :)

That is your opinion. There still is no reason to limit our options because the option being limited is something you find boring.

 

It's funny how people arguing against the people who complain about losing slots are the ones that don't need to adapt in the new changes in any way.

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8 mod slots would be a little disaster for few frames. For example, vauban's build should be based on vortex or bastile

 

Hahahaha x'D

Whoa mate, who told you that it SHOULD be this way?

Just 'cuz YOU think that it should, it doesn't make it a rule...

 

I think it was an abuse, ppl abused game possibilities,

and I think ppl are free to enjoy using other abilities - that you guys find useless...

So, no one needs to tell 'em what it SHOULD be :)

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.keep 10+1 slots

.just remove all = polarities

.no refund or compensation needed

.60+14 mod capacity still makes sense

.everyone happy

 

if the skillselection is not toggleable we need that extra mod space anyhow to salvage the otherwise gimped skills on most builds. we don't just arbitraily remove skills because we need that modspace, but moreso because our choice of corrupted mods further limits the usage of 2nd tier skills.

This would make most sense.

 

And it wouldn't imbalance frames. It's not like weapons where those extra slots would just be used for more damage.

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Look... Nekros has an unique ability that allows him to multiply loot.

Only one possible change that I see can be done to turn nekros from frame that only spams desecrate to something different:

remove that ability (which would make allmost all Nekros users VERY unhappy, because it was the only thing why they bothered polarizing slots and used it) or turn this ability into an 'aura' or something, which would constantly drain some mana and will 100% get additional drop from mobs, so this would allow nekros to move and use other abilities. You can't turn nekros into something different without modifying this ability... or you'll have to change too many things around this ability to make it work different, or give such ability to drones or other frames.

Of course Nekros will continue to be the go to guy for that unique aspect but that doesn't have to be his only purpose.

My argument is that Nekros should be MORE than JUST a desecrate machine.

I believe that If his other powers were better (he is under review) they would get used more often. 

Since there is no way to prove either argument I guess we will agree to disagree.

 

Plus - we're not speaking about particular things regarding warframes, about their abilities and other things.

YOU may not be but I am. As I have explained before, these things are all to interconnected to be talked about as if they are separate.

 

We're speaking about removing 2 mod slots from warframes. Removing these slots is just WRONG!

The slots are only being "removed" from the perspective of people who use 1 or 0 powers on a frame.

For people who use 2 powers they loose no slots. For people who use 3 or 4 powers they have actually gained slots.

 

 

 

Warframes and weapons need more slots for stuff, because there are tons of mods, and 80% of them are useless, since there are always few mods that are better and you put them into all available slots.

 

I agree that there are too many mods that are either useless or sub par.

However having ten mod slots doesn't necessarily mean those useless or sub par mods would be the ones people use.

And the there are some ten mod set ups that would increase a warframes stats enough to increase their stats enough to matter.

Not to mention what kind of power that could add up to be with 10 mods and all four powers (tuned to be useful) plus their augments.

 

Better option might be If DE gave us 8 slots for regular mods (like redirection,streamline) and 2 mod slots dedicated for those weaker utility mods (handspring,warm coat). That way we could that extra utility and make those weaker mods useful while preventing those potential ten slot builds that might be overpowered.

 

 

There is no balance in weapons, mods and other things -

 

There are currently some serious balance issues in Warframe but that is no reason to ignore things that might cause even more balance problems going forward. Ideally DE should be making steps toward better balance with each patch. And the player base should support that pursuit.

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That is your opinion. There still is no reason to limit our options because the option being limited is something you find boring.

 

It's funny how people arguing against the people who complain about losing slots are the ones that don't need to adapt in the new changes in any way.

 

 

Well, first of all - it's not a "limitation of options", we get 2 bonus slots... :)

 

And second, I am not arguing, but it is true that I don't need to adapt to this change, it will only benefit me...

I only ever used Formas on Aura slots, and I love playing with all abilities,

not having even 1 "worthless" ability feels like a handicap for me.

 

So, without any arguing, I'm just saying I feel like I'm getting 2 bonus slots,

I am sorry for you guys cuz you feel like 1 slot is taken away from you,

we don't have same points of view, but then again just cuz you want to play that way - doesn't mean it should be that way,

and just because you feel your options are limited, doesn't mean everyone feels that way either. :)

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Got to page 19 and could not keep reading before I posted since I just have to get this down NOW. 

For some, this post will not be relevant in sections or in whole, where as others may hopefully take something from this. Either way, you DON'T have to read this, but the need to share in the relevant area where a discussion can happen just feels better than writing in a diary where no ones knows anything about my thoughts and can't take something from them.

 

Here are my own 5c on the 3 main issues I see, albeit likely treading old ground or missing tracks to anything new after like, 4th-5th post into page 19:

 

1: Ability Slots - As someone that is studying game design, it makes sense to first target unpolarized slots first. Than, in my immature, 20 years of life experience where maybe 15 or less is even actually used since I only remember that far back, and only a 1 of actually studying and thinking from a game MAKER's sight and not a PLAYER's, it would make sense to than remove any "Ability/Skill" polarities if no unpolarized slots remained, and than if none exist, tactical/situational "-" polarities as I am sure people would grab pitchforks if it were for the defensive "D" polarities as they generally have a higher cost. That is, Narrow Minded, Vigor, Vitality, Redirection and Steel Fiber (from the top of my head, the lulling sound of a lecture taking place isn't helping.) 

But after the "D" polarity, the "-' polarity is the likely next widely polarized on, in my case anyway as I am sure that other people will see things in a different light and go for "Y" polarities to better fit Blind Rage and Intensify. But "-" make more sense to be removed as we are all likely to be chopping a mod off from that, unless you WERE someone that enjoyed not being downed/dead and casting slightly weaker abilities than a majority (assumption) of people that take the Glass Cannon role.

Again, this is my 5c on this, kindly don't stab me down with pitchforks as this is my ameture game designer thoughts on this. DE devs are older and more experienced than I, so they see things differently that I might, as you all as well.

Either way, this leads onto my next topic.

2: Formas - Either give us a lengthy booster, no 3 or 7 days but something longer, or better yet, something we can activate later. I only get a 2 - 3 days to play Warframe, but that's only a full days grind worth, and how will we know that the booster will start at a time convenient for us?

If we go the Legendary Forma/Forma Token route, I'm perfectly fine, it makes sense and has no real fall out, unless I overlooked something. But again, if we get plain Forma, we need to get something to give us incentive to redo the Forma process/grind if needed but to also make those new to the game benefit and keep up with Veteran's making their runs leveling gear.

 

3: Abilities - Okay, with those out of the way, and you knowing my opinions on them so far, Dear Reader, here is my thoughts on abilities.

First up, I generally have two builds on my Frames. One is the generic, overplayed build. A build that people consensually agree to work. 
 

In events where there are two builds, like Nova's M.Prime, I will cater to that build too, if you want to know.

But the third is one where I look at the slots, my mods and my playstyle and throw up my own build. 

I'd link one or try and remake it in WF Builder but busy. Allow me to list alternate builds for "One trick ponies".

Nekros - Anti-Armour build. Armour Corrosion effects all units in the map, and Terrify can make that more. (I MAY be that guy that occasionally rushes into a group of heavies and needs a hand to stand up again, but you can generally be sure what downed me is dead. Generally.)

 

Trinity - I can easily be the Well of Life and Energy Vampire or the Link and Blessing supporter. One for boss runs, with maybe tagging Blessing on for a panic button, and the other for survival.

Would love to list more but I am pretty tired right now and I have to endure another 45mins on the different kinds of Animation software out there when I am more of a Narrative guy.

Now, if you are cluley and wonder why I am listening to a lecture at this time of night where it's likely late, or do now because you bothered to read this, it's because I missed a class and have to do stuff for it Monday and I am doing the typical last minute preparation where I pull off not failing badly. 

But here, this is my views on the changes. My opinions. Maybe, I dunno. I was horribly unprepared for this late night rush and already feel like a zombie finally wasting away and resting in peace again. Like, decayed beyond able to even function as a zombie and just seemly sleep.

WereMagi signing off and back to learning things he didn't want to do in his course.

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