Warframe Ability Mods: Coming Changes

[Doforcash]

I still don't know if I'll get the credits refund ._.

why would you even need credit refund ? It's like toilet paper in Warframe universe XD

[RadYogh]

why would you even need credit refund ? It's like toilet paper in Warframe universe XD

If you don't need your credits, feel free to hand them to me. Already spent over 70 millions and know where to spend another 10-30 millions. :)

[Sabreracer]

I have a question that might be fairly unique if I can throw it at 'Becca.

 

I bought a second Excal with Plat and formaed him to do a build aimed more at Radial Blind rather than getting rid of my first Excals powers as I do actually use all of them (not all of the time but sometimes).  

 

Now that Frame Powers are being removed that kinda makes Cal II redundant whats the chance of myself or others in this situation being having him removed from my inventory and the Plat refunded.  This not an indignant demand just a question.  After all he only cost half of what the Protoarmour cost me.

 

Yes I know I could have farmed him and I probably would have but at the time there was a full blown Infestation there so I would have had to wait to start and I was impatient to get going and I would have still needed to buy a slot and use a 'tater.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Sabreracer

[Chad_Kroeger]

Wow some of you must have a maximised rank 99 "Narrow minded" mod installed into your bodies IRL!

 

Let's just take a look at just ONE of my Warframes (and my favourite) for an example,Ash. He is a single ability modded Warframe...yet I use 3 of his abilities....how?

 

Well there's a wonderful thing implemented in Warframe for sometime called CONFIGS. Config A for me is an solo invisible melee focused infected killing assassin with high health, Max duration Smoke screen, Rage so if I get hit, I get energy yet I gain healthy due to my rejuvenation Aura and Antitoxin for those poisonous sods as he's just used for infested missions.

 

Config B turns Ash into a Bladestorm focussed killing machine who can instant kill anyone in a T3 Exterminate (and everyone bar maybe a gunner in a T4 still need to max Blind Rage to see if this still will be true). I use this config for all exterminates.

 

Config C is my high damage dealing shuriken throwing, teleporting ninja who I use for interception missions.

 

lol, congrats dude, you invented configs xD

No, seriously, do I look like I need an explanation of what you guys wanna do?

I perfectly understood it all, without your explanation, and I said it was an abuse of slots that weren't intended

to be used for anything else but abilities... Putting a mod in ability slot and having it use more drain is one thing,

but using forma on 3 ability slots is just an abuse of game options, thus those options needed a change.

 

I don't mind having other 3 abilities while I'm "bladestorming" through exterminate missions,

I tend to use them only to make a game more interesting :)

 

And one more thing on top of everything - we will have all 4 abilities implemented that will no longer waste any capacity of a frame,

means we'll gain 2 additional (BONUS) slots that we didn't have before, AND 18 capacity increase (cuz abilities were 7+5+4+2)

Thus we wont need that much Forma from this point on, not having to waste ages to level up over and over again every single frame :)

[Keiga150]

Yay this is great, now just add in a slider as some people have pointed out due to conclave rating and it's all sorted.

 

From what i understand i'll be losing 4 Ability Polarities, 2 of which will vanish along with 2 slots. The other 2 will just be blank unless they have been already polarized to be something different. 

 

Worse case scenerio id have to re-level any of my affected frames at least twice. Best case scenerio if i move polarities around before this i wont have to re-level anything at all.

 

One thing though which side is being removed Left or Right? That way i can just swap around my polarities now.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Keiga150

[Chad_Kroeger]

Yay this is great, now just add in a slider as some people have pointed out due to conclave rating and it's all sorted.

 

You really won with this one. :)

Best idea I've seen so far, put in some kind of slider, in case someone wants to use lower rank abilities,

like lowest Molecular Prime for speed build, or Worm Hole / Bounce for single use,

or any of Hydroid / Trinity powers that would become recastable for a shorter time... :)

[afarina1]

My favorite build...

 

Quick spam

 

* Looks like I will have to deal with having 1 less slot for utility mod. :(

 

* My polarized slots will become even more redundant for mod capacity. (I have adjusted the polarities through Miasma duration change, Molt energy cost change, addition of Quick Thinking mod and armor change)

 

* One of the polarized slot will be removed along with the ability slot. I hope I can choose which one to make sure the result is compatible with all my builds. Or better, give me 1 chance to re-polarized all of them.

 

I understand why you would feel like you are getting screwed but I can see a couple mods on your builds that im sure you would barely notice they were gone if they were gone.

[--Soup--]

to me dont know if this is a good thing thats happeing or a bad thing problom is warframes are coool from time to time but i dont like how getting ablities from them are getting renbused any way what im trying to say is

1) this is a good thing for newcomers

2) this is a bad thing for old tenno 

3) like the idea of fusion cores 

4) hate the idea of a rembursed forma : /

5) topic is going to be really diffcult even for script writers 

6) I very much do not like the idea of losing a slot 

7) people out there are going to be mad about using trinity and the rest if they need it at a certin level

8) I dont know how rebecca and the other deves are going to pull this off

9) I am very scared for this update

10 ) im sure other people are scared to 

these things I need awnserd beacuse this is a very scary update and espechily the thought of not getting abilites any more will kind of suck if we cannot level up any more will there be a infianite abbilite xp ? will we not stop at the recomended level 30 is there more levels ?

[Rabbitz]

Leveling abilities this way isn't that hard for abilities that need no target. All you need to do is stock your energy and just spam it somewhere near extraction.

[afarina1]

As I read thru this mess of a thread I keep noticing on thing that just doesn't make sense to me.  So many people are saying "Forcing us to have all 4 abilities"  I can see the argument for losing two slots,  I can see the issues with forma and moving it around or having to re level the forma you get refunded etc etc.  But really you will have all 4 abilities available.  If you dont want to use one then dont push the button?  Seems simple to me.....

 

On that note.....I did see one person say something about second ability set as drops.  Now that would be something I could get on board with.  That would be amazazing!

 

And I dont have an issue losing two slots.  I also havent been playing as long as alot of people and I have not formaed anything yet.

[BradKing]

Right now, the commonly seen possible issues seem to be:

 

- We don't know which slots will be removed, which could lead to us losing polarities we want to and could have kept if we had the option to swap polarities beforehand

This could be solved in many ways, for instance a way which I showed in a previous post here, but the easiest way for the players would be to do it for every frame as you pick it to play with, be unable to play any mission until you perform the action yourself (remove two slots, refund forma if polarised, all skill polarities will be set to empty by the update itself). Sadly, this is also one that is generally more code work since it involves GUI stuff.

 

- Conclave rating is important for duels

TBH this is a minor thing since everyone will be equally challenged. Maybe the conclave bands should be changed to take care of the general increase.

 

- Conclave rating is important for dynamic alerts, dynamic scaling bosses/any other such content that might come later

Pretty big one for me; I loved being challenged to lower my conclave to 700 or even 500, but I had to often resort to bringing only 1 ability, or lower level abilities. Not being able to influence conclave by removing abilities is troublesome for lots of people who may not have several ranks of every useful mod to further influence this. This is further compounded by certain frames/skills being weird in conclave ratings to begin with.

 

- Skill order for DS pvp

I'm probably not really qualified to go to deep into this, since I don't participate in it unless peer pressured into it, but this is again one of those 'everyone will have this', so I feel it's of less importance. Since it is currently in, maybe my proposed solution below will help.

 

- Skills when using scroll wheel/skill flipping (assuming it works like that on consoles anyway)

This is probably a very valid point, even the devs mention how they want players to be able to make full use of their muscle memory for archwing from the normal sprint/slide/etc, muscle memory for warframes when it comes to skills makes sense too.

 

- 8 slots is less than 9 and 10

Quite true and I have farmed enough to know the usefulness of single ability specialist frames, however, I won't discuss that part here, it's been done. What I would like to address is the fact that DE is hurting themselves here, which always ends up hurting us. Just 8 slots for warframe mods means forma is less meaningful for frames. It also means it's harder to get some of the fun and quirky mods that are underused already the love they might deserve. Finally it limits the players in making their own set ups, which is extra hurtful for newer players, who might have some extra mods which won't fit just due to the slot limit, but also have extra mod points left since they will not have had the resources to fuse up the many 'base' mods. 

More slots = more reason to forma & potato for the bulk of the players, which means more income for DE, which means more resources for devs = wins all round.

 

 

Now, some of my thoughts on solutions :)

- Make it possible to have 10 slots. I would not like it to be plat bought (too much pay to win), nor mastery unlocked (screw us old farts, equal possibilities for all), but how about basing it on playing the frame? It might be a precursor to focus (you seem to enjoy that frame, have a slot after you reach XXX xp) or tied in with a Lotus sigil (tenno, you listened well) or something. Yes, more columns in DB, but also makes it easier to expand on such a system in the future :)

- Skills: make them order-able and give them a slider in the customisation settings. It's like a tripple whammy: takes care of the scroll ordering, DS pvp skill order and conclave stuff. Yes, it's more columns in the DB, but it makes layouts more appealing too.

- Leveling skills only through use is really annoying for certain skills (looking at you Iron Shield, Null Star, volt speed, bounce etc etc), maybe make it like 25% of warframe xp levels skills too to lower the chances of spamfests. I like helping new people right now, wouldn't like it so much if they spam every skill they can while I do it..

Edited October 20, 2014 by BradKing

[Ronyn]

So, why not to keep 10 mod slots?

We don't know why. It could be from DE's balance concerns, it could be because DE never intended for us to have 10 mod slots.

Note: I'm not necessarily saying I agree or disagree with whatever DE's reasoning might be. I'm only saying they have some reasons which may or may not be good ones. Considering there are other aspects of what they are working on that they know about while we don't...

It's hard for me to make too big of a statement about how good or bad this particular change is.

 

Regarding the balance and other stuff - I think that weapon/frame/mod stats need a complete rework to achieve some balance if that's ever gonna happen - I will be happy. And if it happens - it would change everything, and all previous builds would have to be completely reworked. Even damage 2.0 didn't do very significant changes, I'm still using about the same mod builds on all weapons, few mods are replaced with similar mods (fire + cold with electric + toxin) and maybe sometimes 1-2 didfferent mods, though it made many weapons(like acrid, which used to be about the best weapon in the game) useless.

But this change of warframe slots doesn't change the overall situation, it doesn't bring more balance to the game, but It would break some existing and working builds just because of the lack of slots - I don't like that.

Assuming this change is related to balance:

Do I think giving warframes 8 slots instead of 10 will solve Warframes overall balance problems? Not even close.

Though it might be one part of a larger initiative toward balance. So disregarding it's possible importance as a potential part of balance would be shortsighted. Games aren't usually balanced in one move, it's a gradual thing that takes time.

 

Now am I personally going to miss having 10 mods slots? Yes and no.

There are a few builds that I will loose from this transition. There are also a few builds I'm going to gain from this transition.

 

When time comes for a major changes - I will be happy to see them, but now I want to be able to use all the warframe builds I used before.

 

If and when DE does make other large changes that force people to re-consider their favorite builds we can be absolutely certain that there will be a similar split among the playerbase. Some will love it, some will hate it, and many will fall somewhere in between.

 

Sidenote-

If DE continues to tweak, tune, and rework the frame power into making them all viable choices..

if DE stops trying to solve certain core functionality problems by offering a MOD for it....

Then I think that will be the kind of changes that will make the majority of us happier in the long run.

[QuiteCrazy]

You mean you want it to sell it to collectors for 1k plat a shot later?

nope i mean that i'm as a collector want to have 1 of each mod as historical evidence :D  i didn't drop waframe yet cause of that collector thing, i need to have everything ingame lol

[Spartan086]

This... this is.... this is a Fomorian loads of pure Win! Thank you DE! 

[(XBOX)Rx Chem Dog]

Less is more? How is less more if you're lowering the mod capacity?  Or did I miss something? 

[Takuku]

Awesome idea!

[JASOFF]

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/7987/qOaVH7.jpg

 

what about this build , it's it's a melee build ?????

 

 

it's a funy one

Edited October 20, 2014 by JASOFF

[JASOFF]

and it's a funy one

[Naftal]

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/7987/qOaVH7.jpg

 

what about this build , it's it's a melee build ?????

That's a joke build with plenty of useless mods.

[JASOFF]

its a melee build  for fun and works with life strike

[(PSN)vinster]

to me dont know if this is a good thing thats happeing or a bad thing problom is warframes are coool from time to time but i dont like how getting ablities from them are getting renbused any way what im trying to say is

1) this is a good thing for newcomers

2) this is a bad thing for old tenno 

3) like the idea of fusion cores 

4) hate the idea of a rembursed forma : /

5) topic is going to be really diffcult even for script writers 

6) I very much do not like the idea of losing a slot 

7) people out there are going to be mad about using trinity and the rest if they need it at a certin level

8) I dont know how rebecca and the other deves are going to pull this off

9) I am very scared for this update

10 ) im sure other people are scared to 

these things I need awnserd beacuse this is a very scary update and espechily the thought of not getting abilites any more will kind of suck if we cannot level up any more will there be a infianite abbilite xp ? will we not stop at the recomended level 30 is there more levels ?

 

Great summary!

 

Can you raise a petition at change.org so that I can sign to not have this update?! :)

[RadYogh]

Do I think giving warframes 8 slots instead of 10 will solve Warframes overall balance problems? Not even close.

Though it might be one part of a larger initiative toward balance. So disregarding it's possible importance as a potential part of balance would be shortsighted. Games aren't usually balanced in one move, it's a gradual thing that takes time.

 

 

[....]

 

If and when DE does make other large changes that force people to re-consider their favorite builds we can be absolutely certain that there will be a similar split among the playerbase. Some will love it, some will hate it, and many will fall somewhere in between.

I don't think that fixing major problems in a small parts is a good thing... Let's say you have a wooden building, and you want to turn it into a concrete one... What would you do? Destroy a building and build a new one, or smash few walls, replace them, smash few more walls replace them too and repeat that until everything will be replaced?

 

Doing major changes in small parts is a very bad idea, it's good only for breaking things and making ppl ragequit. Look how many problems this "change" brings up... And many of that things doesn't make ppl happy and require changes to other subsystems (like all conclave-based stuff). Replacing a system bit by bit would require A LOT of work, a lot of additional changes with every balance change, just to make it work - all things are connected to each other and changing one thing require changes to other things.

Now we have a somewhat stable system that works. I'm not saying it's balanced or something, but ppl have got used to it. And this system can't be balanced without a complete rework, because imbalance is one of the key features of this system and everything is connected to it.

 

Yeah, if DE will do a complete rework of this system many ppl would be unhappy, becuase they are used to the current system and will have to adopt to a new one, "learn how to play again". It could be worth ... if system will realy be balanced and allow more diversity in warframe/weapon builds and other stuff. But right now this change is only breaking things and doesn't bring more balance. If there will be 10 mod slots on frames - it won't break anything, maybe only improve, maybe this would aslo make this system more imbalanced (but ppl already used to this imbalance and many would probably like it even more).

[Shanodin007]

Great change. Unless we get info about which two slots will be removed, i guess the best we can do will be moving all our forma'd slots to the middle. The question is still where to move the = slots, to the right or to the left. I'm looking forward to reading more information about this.

[Ronyn]

I don't think that fixing major problems in a small parts is a good thing... Let's say you have a wooden building, and you want to turn it into a concrete one... What would you do? Destroy a building and build a new one, or smash few walls, replace them, smash few more walls replace them too and repeat that until everything will be replaced?

 

Doing major changes in small parts is a very bad idea, it's good only for breaking things and making ppl ragequit. Look how many problems this "change" brings up... And many of that things doesn't make ppl happy and require changes to other subsystems (like all conclave-based stuff). Replacing a system bit by bit would require A LOT of work, a lot of additional changes with every balance change, just to make it work - all things are connected to each other and changing one thing require changes to other things.

That sounds great and I don't disagree in theory but that isn't a;was the reality of game development.

Game development is largely about dealing with several competing goals at the same time. 

Also keep in mind that there are many, many cases of where successful games have made small changes toward the larger goals without disrupting their playerbase numbers. So let us keep all of this in perspective.

 

 

Yeah, if DE will do a complete rework of this system many ppl would be unhappy, becuase they are used to the current system and will have to adopt to a new one, "learn how to play again". It could be worth ... if system will realy be balanced and allow more diversity in warframe/weapon builds and other stuff. But right now this change is only breaking things and doesn't bring more balance. If there will be 10 mod slots on frames - it won't break anything, maybe only improve, maybe this would aslo make this system more imbalanced (but ppl already used to this imbalance and many would probably like it even more).

I don't necessarily agree that this change is ONLY breaking things and NOT bringing any more balance.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Ronyn

[Shanodin007]

its a melee build  for fun and works with life strike

Its a Rhino wasted. If you wanted a melee build and you wont use iron skin and roar, then you should go play valkyr and keep warcry. Btw, why having flow if you have no skills at all? You don't need it for Life strike to work fine.