Warframe Ability Mods: Coming Changes

[Shanodin007]

Less is more? How is less more if you're lowering the mod capacity?  Or did I miss something? 

Yes you did. Go read again.

[[DE]Momaw]

Stay tuned for more information on the specifics of this conversion.

 

My tuner is so tuned that my friends and family are concerned my level of tunedness will damage my sanity.

[KorEllen]

Which Two Slots?

 

 I do not understand why people are having an issue with this. They are removing 2 ability mod slots. If you have forma'd them or even moved them, 2 of the ability mod slots are being removed. The easiest way to accomplish this is for DE to revert all polorized ability slots back to their original poloraziation and then remove 2 of the four slots and un-polorize the last two.Per what we have been told, you cannot "hide" your polorized ability slots by moving them to the middle of the mods area. The game update is going to give you back your forma for all polorized mod slots and then delete 2 and remove polorazition from the remaining 2. If this is how it is going to happen, you cannot save your forma'd ability mod slots. To do it any other way would require a more complicated code and this is being released, most likley, with update 15 which DE is saying is happening really soon.

 

 This stems from an issue with removing ability mods from the drop tables, a simpler solution would have been to just change the drop % of ability mods to near 0%. Less ability mods drop per mission and no need to make such a sudden and drastic change. Whenever you are going to change an entire core system within a game, it should not be as a quick fix, but should be one of the main issues in a major update.

 

 I've already accpeted the fact that I will most likley have to reforma my warframes to get back the lost poloraities, my concern is how will maxed mods affect multiple warfames. exp... maxed World on Fire and a rank 10 Ember, since levels will now determine when you get access to abilities and will need to be ranked up. Also what if you have 1 maxed mod, but two maxed frames. exp... Level 30 Rhino and a Level 30 Rhino Prime, but only one maxed Rhino Stomp. Do they both get Rhino Stomp at max, or only one because of only haveing 1 maxed ability mod.

 

 Hopefully we will be given more information before this change is implimented and some of our concerns will be answered, but the change is coming, and with the mixed reception it is recieving, I don't see DE changing their minds about it's implmentation. As players, our concern needs to be refocused to how will we cope with this change and still be able to accomplish what we want to accomplish in game.

 

 And to those who keep saying that only using one ability is playing the game wrong or as not intended, just stop already. If DE did not want players too use abilities how they wanted, they would not have given us the ability to remove them from our loadouts. DE is smart enough to realize that gamers will always look for ways to maximize strengths and reduce precieved weaknesses, no one was abusing or exploiting the game by using only one ability. DE gave us that ability, if you do not like using only one ability, guess what, DE gave you that ability also. Personal bias does not imply someone is exploiting a game.

[Ronyn]

And to those who keep saying that only using one ability is playing the game wrong or as not intended, just stop already. If DE did not want players too use abilities how they wanted, they would not have given us the ability to remove them from our loadouts. DE is smart enough to realize that gamers will always look for ways to maximize strengths and reduce precieved weaknesses, no one was abusing or exploiting the game by using only one ability. DE gave us that ability, if you do not like using only one ability, guess what, DE gave you that ability also. Personal bias does not imply someone is exploiting a game.

eh...

Considering the size and scope of the game being made by a wide variety of the people...

The truth is that developers make various changes to their games that sometimes result in things that were either not entirely intended or have unintended consequences to the rests of the system. Now that doesn't mean players doing what they are doing with the features available are "exploiting" anything, but it does sometimes mean that the game is moving a direction the developers either did not intend then or are simply not comfortable with going forward. 

[Reidmaster]

What about my existing Ability Mods?

All existing Ability Mods won’t be rendered useless - they will be converted into Fusion Cores. Stay tuned for more information on the specifics of this conversion.

 

Holy cow, I am going to have quite a few fusion cores when this is put into effect.

[JASOFF]

Its a Rhino wasted. If you wanted a melee build and you wont use iron skin and roar, then you should go play valkyr and keep warcry. Btw, why having flow if you have no skills at all? You don't need it for Life strike to work fine.

def with melee and  life strike

and for ls is beter 300 energy 

Edited October 20, 2014 by JASOFF

[ThePresident777]

Ability Mod Sacrifice:

 

Theoretically true, not so true in actual practice.  People don't sacrifice abilities.  Or, maybe some do, but a lot of people are happy to just use the abilities they enjoy.  They put on the abilities they want to use.  If an ability does not perform as desired then they don't put it on.

 

A lot of people run with just one ability and will even forma ability slots into another polarity to improve this scenario for themselves.  That gives them 9 mod slots, not 8.  Not counting aura slot because that does not change here.  Those people will lose a mod slot and DE will lose the money derived from this.  Yes, forma is easy to come by for free, but boosters are not.  Abundant forma facilitates booster sales, but you also need slots to forma.  Having fewer mod slots works against the booster business model.

 

Having the abilities does not guarantee using the abilities.  If the abilities were desired, people would use them.  We will have all four abilities but we're not going to use them all anyway.  Not all of them are entertaining, and, we may need different mod set ups to get the most out of particular abilities, and certain missions may demand this.  In which case we would have not equipped certain mods anyway.  We have loadouts now.

 

Feedback on the matter, to my eyes, more often seems to be something like "make all the abilities useful" rather than "give me more mod slots".  People have more than 6 mod slots (up to 9, even 10 with 0 abilities), because they are not using all four abilities (as little as 1, very often).  We have already given ourselves more mod slots and now we will, in many cases, actually lose one.  And, this actual loss of mod slots translates into less forma usage therefore less booster sales.

 

But, it does not solve the underlying problem of ability usefulness, or desire to use certain abilities.    Having both slash dash and radial javelin by default does not mean that people will suddenly start using radial javelin over slash dash, or crush over pull, or overload over shock, etc.  That is a separate problem.  All you can do here about that problem is not get in the way of it's solution.  It will be a long time before that problem is solved and all the while, DE will be losing booster sales and we will be dissatisfied with the loss of a mod slot.

 

The best solution here is to not take away any mod slots at all so that we objectively gain mod slots in the bargain, for a total of 10 mods slots, not 8 (the aura slot is separate and not an issue in this debate at all) and DE gains more booster sales.  10 mod slots works with the booster business model.  8 does not because it's common to run with just one ability thereby already having 9 mod slots so 8 is a loss, not a gain. 

 

It's also easier to implement because DE will not have to return any forma and people will be happy that they do not have to reforma slots.  If you give people another slot to forma, that is an opportunity they can choose to use.  If you remove and return their forma then it is an obvious compulsion to buy a booster they already may have bought so they can reforma that slot and they will resent that.  You could give them a booster in addition to the forma but isn't it easier to not have to do any of that at all?  Then, everybody is happy, except for people who hyperfocus on arbitrary numbers.  But, those people are impossible to please anyway, and attempting to do so angers everyone else.

 

Underclocking:

 

DE has recognized underclocking in devstreams, even claimed it as a reason to leave mods in the drop tables, so as to preserve underclocking.  Now DE is getting rid of ability mods from the drop tables, ... and getting rid of underclocking too.  ??--__--??  Who needs a baby if there is no bathwater?  ("We're so sorry, Baby, but due to the recent bathwater shortages we no longer require your services and we're going to have to ask you to leave.  However, your severance package does consist of a free one way trip to a Micronesian island of your choosing."  I've been watching too much John Oliver.  It's working)

 

Ability Access, Mod Card System Depth, Knowing How to Use

 

How is this different from other mods?  Why not just get rid of all the mod cards?  People still need to learn how to play the game.  They still need a good tutorial and a descriptive/informative/managable interface.  The underlying problem still persists.  You may have circumvented it to some degree for ability mods but it's still applicable, and more so for the rest of the game.  Even if the mod card system went away, there is always a need for information and a means to manage it.  The problem is not the mod cards.

Edited October 20, 2014 by ThePresident777

[(PSN)DStealth]

Ability Mod Sacrifice:

 

Theoretically true, not so true in actual practice.  People don't sacrifice abilities.  Or, maybe some do, but a lot of people are happy to just use the abilities they enjoy.  They put on the abilities they want to use.  If an ability does not perform as desired then they don't put it on.

 

A lot of people run with just one ability and will even forma ability slots into another polarity to improve this scenario for themselves.  That gives them 9 mod slots, not 8.  Not counting aura slot because that does not change here.  Those people will lose a mod slot and DE will lose the money derived from this.  Yes, forma is easy to come by for free, but boosters are not.  Abundant forma facilitates booster sales, but you also need slots to forma.  Having fewer mod slots works against the booster business model.

 

Having the abilities does not guarantee using the abilities.  If the abilities were desired, people would use them.  We will have all four abilities but we're not going to use them all anyway.  Not all of them are entertaining, and, we may need different mod set ups to get the most out particular abilities, and certain missions may demand this.  In which case we would have not equipped certain mods anyway.  We have loadouts now.

 

Feedback on the matter, to my eyes, more often seems to be something like "make all the abilities useful" rather than "give me more mod slots".  People have more than 6 mod slots (up to 9, even 10 with 0 abilities), because they are not using all four abilities (as little as 1, very often).  We have already given ourselves more mod slots and now we will, in many cases, actually lose one.  And, this actual loss of mod slots translates into less forma usage therefore less booster sales.

 

But, it does not solve the underlying problem of ability usefulness, or desire to use certain abilities.    Having both slash dash and radial javelin by default does not mean that people will suddenly start using radial javelin over slash dash, or crush over pull, or overload over shock, etc.  That is a separate problem.  All you can do here about that is not get in it's way.  It will be a long time before that problem is solved and all the while, DE will be losing booster sales and we will be dissatisfied with the loss of a mod slot.

 

The best solution here is to not take away any mod slots at all so that we objectively gain mod slots in the bargain, for a total of 10 mods slots, not 8 (the aura slot is separate and not an issue in this debate at all) and DE gains more booster sales.  10 mod slots works with the booster business model.  8 does not because it's common to run with just one ability thereby already having 9 mod slots so 8 is a loss, not a gain. 

 

It's also easier to implement because DE will not have to return any forma and people will be happy that they do not have to reforma slots.  If you give people another slot to forma, that is an opportunity they can choose to use.  If you remove and return their forma then it is an obvious compulsion to buy a booster they already may have bought so they can reforma that slot and they will resent that.  You could give them a booster in addition to the forma but isn't it easier to not have to do any of that at all?  Then, everybody is happy, except for people who hyperfocus on arbitrary numbers.  But, those people are impossible to please anyway, and attempting to do so angers everyone else.

 

Underclocking:

 

DE has recognized underclocking in devstreams, even claimed it as a reason to leave mods in the drop tables, so as to preserve underclocking.  Now DE is getting rid of ability mods from the drop tables, ... and getting rid of underclocking too.  ??--__--??  Who needs a baby if there is no bathwater?  ("We're so sorry, Baby, but due to the recent bathwater shortages we no longer require your services and we're going to have to ask you to leave.  However, your severance package does consist of a free one way trip to a Micronesian island of your choosing."  I've been watching too much John Oliver.  It's working)

 

Ability Access, Mod Card System Depth, Knowing How to Use

 

How is this different from other mods?  Why not just get rid of all the mod cards?  People still need to learn how to play the game.  They still need a good tutorial and a descriptive/informative/managable interface.  The underlying problem still persists.  You may have circumvented it to some degree for ability mods but it's still applicable, and more so for the rest of the game.  Even if the mod card system went away, there is always a need for information and a means to manage it.  The problem is not the mod cards.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself

[Campaigner]

DE, could you remove the 2 ability slots I didn't forma and leave the 2 I did?

[RSITH]

I honestly thought at first WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. But, to come to it. It's pretty cool.

[Shanodin007]

Legendary forma is the answer.

[Shanodin007]

def with melee and  life strike

and for ls is beter 300 energy 

Valkyr has way more armor than Rhino and since you are a fan of Life strike, you should take a warframe with more health than shield, which makes Valkyr again a better option than Rhino. 

A max power strength to Rhino, using Roar, gives 114.5% damage boost, but you are not even using it.

Valkyr has Warcry which doesnt increse your dmg but gives, with a max power strength, 114.5% speed buff, 114.5% armor buff, and 68.7% slow buff on your enemies in range, which works great on a melee game.

You are probably enjoying your build, but is not a melee one at all. You should take all this info and make a new melee game for you.

Or at least, if you wanna keep using Rhino as a melee warframe, do it properly.

Good luck.

[BerzerkersRage]

That's just plain unfortunate. I had SEVERAL builds which required those extra slots which are being taken away. I usually only use one or maybe two of the warframe powers. I unequip the ones I won't be using so I don't accidentally trigger them. Then I forma those slots so they can be useful. Now I'm going to lose some of those slots and I'll be forced to equip things I will never use and will accidentally trigger ALL OF THE TIME.

 

(not to mention the fact now I have to go through and rebuild all of my existing warframe loadouts)

 

!!!PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE at least give us the ability to disable powers we're never going to use!!!!

Are people really this dumb? I understand people who min/max for a single ability being upset that they are losing mod slots, but freaking out because you might accidentally trigger the wrong ability? By that logic you might as well replace your keyboard with a single button, because hey, its a lot of buttons that you might accidentally press when you don't intend to.  While we're at it let's give you a one button mouse, because you might click the right one and be traumatized by it.  And then you can enjoy pressing your two buttons, unless that's still too hard for you, in which case you can just unplug your single button mouse and not have to worry.  On a less sarcastic note, if it bothers you that much you can just rebind things to keys you won't hit, it's already a feature in the game.

[ThePresident777]

More mods slots = more mods = more drain = more forma = more boosters = more money.  Less = less.

[H3RRD0KT0R]

Legendary forma is the answer.

 

Exactly, cause formas grow on trees, but time (and boosters) dont.

[Turnoverman]

Just because there's so much undeserved hate at this:

 

Yes, DE, you're right. This is an obvious change. The sad thing is that it was ever not like this, honestly. The hate for this change proves how necessary it is. Warframes (except maybe Nekros, let's be honest here) are more useful with two or more abilities, and they make more sense that way, too. I'm glad I won't have to give up abilities like rip line, and sleight of hand that are useful but not quite worth the slot. I'm ambivalent towards having things like paralysis and psychic bolts, but there's no harm in their being there.

 

There's no reasonable way to refund people's time spent on releveling frames, not that begging for a refund on time spent playing videogames makes sense, but I'm sure you're going to think of something that none of us deserve.

 

All in all, thank you.

[(PSN)V3RM1THRAX]

I like the idea,but 10 slots is better than 8, minus the aura. Free the 4 ability slots so we can put different mods in would be better.

[Rustning]

I'm actually really looking forward to the transition, because this is a change I sorta wanted to begin with, but with the change to the mod slots, I'm actually really happy. I normally use only two of my warframes' abilities, so with the 8 mods slots, it just means I can use the same abilities without having to worry about the polarities for the other two unused abilities (also, it was kinda expected anyway - ability mods currently don't really fit in).

[(XBOX)TonedBridge79]

So will everyone that already has all the abilities ranked up have to rank them up again? 

No they won't have to rank them up again if you already have them maxed out.

"NOTE: If you had already maxed or ranked Ability Mods, you will not be affected by this. This applies for newly acquired Warframes post Update 15."

 

[MechaTails]

I hope DE is still reading these posts, because I have a non-whiny thing to ask.

 

Since Warframe abilities will now be integrated into the Warframes themselves, does this mean there is zero chance for Warframes to get all new abilities?

 

Will the new "Ability Modifier" mods only affect the existing abilities, but never introduce all new abilities?

 

I ask because I've been creating interesting mod ideas that tweak abilities, and even the Warframes themselves, so I'm wondering if I should just stop posting new ideas because they won't be able to be implemented anyway.

 

I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at my ideas and point out examples of what is and isn't feasible in the upcoming system. Here's a link to my ideas: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/298315-here-we-go-more-mod-ideas/

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the new system. I love dramatic changes, especially in beta.

[--G-Force--]

i am not sure about the change , but for some reason i feel i am going to be ripped off here, as much as you give when you take , i am seeing this time. the giving is not going to equate to the taking , i have hundreds of maxed out ability mods that has cost me millions in credits , numerous mods maxed many of the same one . i have been playing war frame for close to 2400 hours of game play and have spent many thousands of plat and feel this is unfair to just remove something i have taken so long to acquire , i am very proud of my mod set up , and have spent many more hours trying to sort threw the thousands of duplicates trying to see the best way to organize them . i have 5 maxed chaos 4 crush 4 bounce and so on and so on. many being 13s 9s and 7s in order to do this i spent untold amount of credits and fusion cores , so one core for ability mods , well i have maxed all my ability mods ,thousands of them using credits and fusion cores , for what to be given a fusion core for something that took several to max. this seems a total lack of consideration of my efforts i put into this game. at one stage of my playing war frame i had over 15000 mods and i spent so much to consolidate them into what i have now, i am not liking this new update at moment not one bit. also polarizing of slots , forma forma forma , i have ability slots on war frame s that have more than two slots changed hows that going to work , i constructed my slots in such a way to maximize my war frame potential , this is something that has acquired more time and patience, to be done how i see it as best , to just have it removed and re payed by forma,this is by far, no were near the compensation,of what your going to do , i cannot believe what i am reading , my last 2400 game hours is going to be turned on its head and i will be given fusion cores and forma for it , i am sorry but what i have put in is a lot for than that , so sorry to be a bit bummed out about the next update, but the excitement of the wing concept has been ripped apart by the apparent mods and slots turn around , this is going to toss my game in to some thing i fear i may not come back from , or come back too..

[Burq]

I seriously dont know why so many people dislike this change, thou I guess it's a matter of preference: I like using all of the warframe's abilities but I rarely use them because they dont synergize well with others, it takes too much mod capacity or it's simply not as good or necessary as others.

 

I think a lot of frames will benefit from this change, even if they use gimped or not optimized abilities: Volt, Loki, Ash, Banshee , Oberon, Valkyr and Rhino benefit a lot from this change, they're the frames that have many useful abilities but they get removed to focus on the main ones.

 

Also, the fact that now you have the free mod points that would normally go to them means less forma necessary to have full builds.

[zergla]

No they won't have to rank them up again if you already have them maxed out.

"NOTE: If you had already maxed or ranked Ability Mods, you will not be affected by this. This applies for newly acquired Warframes post Update 15."

 

[Asterisk123]

Overall, this update is fine. However, I do ask one thing of you DE. Please let us be able to tweak our abilities to the level or rank we want them at. Some of my abilities I don't want maxed, and I won't have a choice in the matter if I gradually keep using them. Basically I'm proposing that after maxing them, we can adjust its "level" so that the ability yields the effect players want; e.g. I have a maxed Molecular Prime, but I want to use the lowest level one for more speed. It would GREATLY benefit the players that use abilities for their utility.  Also, as people have already suggested, it would be nice if we can choose which abilities to toggle on and off. I don't want to accidentally use an ability I don't want to use. Thanks for your time.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Asterisk123

[nekrojiji]

So the ability(=) polarity slots are 2 in the left and 2 in the right.

I understand 2 of the 10 warframe slots will be removed.

 

 

How DE will probably do it:

 

Delete 2 slots, remove = polarity from the other 2 slots and refund us with as much forma as it was invested in the = polarity slots.

 

 

 

How I hope DE will do it:

 

Everyone who formated their warframes would have done so by removing 1, 2 or even 3 = polarities, most likelly.

So, when the slots are removed, please prioritize the removal of still present = polarity slots.

Like this you will remove 2 slots with = polarity and leave the other 2 slots which most likely are polarized with V D or -.

If only one slot still had claw piolarity one forma should be refunded. Any = polarity slots over 2 will have the polarity removed.

 

I have a lot of polarized frames so even if I get the forma back, I would still have to relevel each one of them twice.