Warframe Ability Mods: Coming Changes

[(PSN)SancticuS]

Actually, the number of refunded forma depends on which ability slot you have had polarized.

The ability slots that are going to be removed are the top left and top right slots. If you polarized these slots, your formas will be refunded. If you polarized the bottom left and bottom right instead, your polarization choice will stay and no forma will be refunded.

 

That only applies if you have not formaed any slots. Then the top left and top right will be removed. If you have formaed those slots the script will search for 2 available ability slots and remove those instead. So as long as you have only polarized 2 out of the 4 ability slots the unmodded slots will be removed, the 2 formaed will remain untouched and you will receive 0 forma back.

[UltimateSpinDash]

As far as I know, all of my frames use 2 or more of their abilities.

 

I can't tell from the Slot Information if the game will detect the two remaining ability polarities and remove those slots regardless where they are. If it does, then I don't have to do anything.

Can someone clarify this?

[Frostosti]

803 read 802. -.-"

[UltimateSpinDash]

803 read 802. -.-"

Got ninja'd there.

 

So I don't have to do anything. Awesome.

Edited October 23, 2014 by UltimateSpinDash

[Padreic]

That only applies if you have not formaed any slots. Then the top left and top right will be removed. If you have formaed those slots the script will search for 2 available ability slots and remove those instead. So as long as you have only polarized 2 out of the 4 ability slots the unmodded slots will be removed, the 2 formaed will remain untouched and you will receive 0 forma back.

That is not what the DE post says.  That's what I'm hoping they'll change it to, but it isn't the current plan.  As long as you haven't swapped around (not talking about forma here, just swapping) the ability slots, it'll be the top left and top right slot, period.  Forma or no forma.  If you number them by row, with the top row being slots 1 through 5, it is 1 and 5 that are going away.  If you have swapped the positions of those slots, the script will follow them and still remove whatever was originally slot 1 and slot 5 (not whatever is there now).  So if you had swapped slot 1 with slot 8, slot 8 will go away.  If one of the slots removed had been formad, you will get reimbursed a forma.

[Llyssa]

That the abilities level with the frame and not with usage is most welcome.

BIG HINT ON PREPARING FOR THE PATCH

Make screenshots of all your frame loadouts!

If you formed and swapped polarisations as much as I did it will be impossible to tell which polarisation you gonna lose.

Besides that I'm sure all mods will be unequipped with the patch. Having backups of your loadouts/builds will save you a lot of tinkering around after the patch.

Your observation makes a lot of sense, but gosh I hope you're wrong.

 

I really don't want to sit there re-doing 75 different mod loadouts.

[SYLUX6574]

@hyperblaster

 

Trust me, you want your polarized slots to be refunded as every build will have unused points.  Seriously, put any of your current builds in an 8-slot system and see how many leftover points you have; it's not pretty.

yes but now you dont have to put in your ability mods. so try the buidls without any ability mods and no polarities on the old abilitiy solts

Edited October 23, 2014 by SYLUX6574

[Briareos]

One significant Update:

 

Dev has confirmed the following to be the latest information on how to Rank up individual Abilities:

 

Abilities will now increase in rank as you rank up your Warframe. It is no longer based on per-ability usage, but occurs passively as your Warframe increases in rank. 

 

 

So what happens when we forma a frame after U15 and it goes back to rank 0? Do all our abilities reset to their lowest level as well? Because frankly, that'd be a huge step backwards from the current system where you level up your abilities and they stay there (and you can still use some of them at forma-rank 0 thanks to the extra mod points you get from auras).

[Operative_Shift]

That is not what the DE post says.  That's what I'm hoping they'll change it to, but it isn't the current plan.  As long as you haven't swapped around (not talking about forma here, just swapping) the ability slots, it'll be the top left and top right slot, period.  Forma or no forma.  If you number them by row, with the top row being slots 1 through 5, it is 1 and 5 that are going away.  If you have swapped the positions of those slots, the script will follow them and still remove whatever was originally slot 1 and slot 5 (not whatever is there now).  So if you had swapped slot 1 with slot 8, slot 8 will go away.  If one of the slots removed had been formad, you will get reimbursed a forma.

 

Actually DERebecca had it dev confirmed that it will prioritize removing any remaining scratch polarities first on page 38 post #760. 

 

The only times forma'd polarity slots are going to be sought out are if there is one or less ability polarities available.  If there is one or less available then the first previous scratch (that was originally located in spot 1) will be priority #1 and the second previous scratch (originally in spot 5) wil be priority #2 regardless of where they have moved.  At least thats the way that DE has explained it so far.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Operative_Shift

[scavenge]

Seems all the players have forma'd frames and no one has mod cards. Pretty much this thread. Oh well...

[GildedTuna]

It really seems to me the "Legendary Untradeable Forma" would be the way to go, this way you get all your work back and its simpler for everyone to understand. Its even more beneficial for some players who don't like playing some frames anymore.

[Temmron]

That only applies if you have not formaed any slots. Then the top left and top right will be removed. If you have formaed those slots the script will search for 2 available ability slots and remove those instead. So as long as you have only polarized 2 out of the 4 ability slots the unmodded slots will be removed, the 2 formaed will remain untouched and you will receive 0 forma back.

Yes you are right about that

That is not what the DE post says.  That's what I'm hoping they'll change it to, but it isn't the current plan.  As long as you haven't swapped around (not talking about forma here, just swapping) the ability slots, it'll be the top left and top right slot, period.  Forma or no forma.  If you number them by row, with the top row being slots 1 through 5, it is 1 and 5 that are going away.  If you have swapped the positions of those slots, the script will follow them and still remove whatever was originally slot 1 and slot 5 (not whatever is there now).  So if you had swapped slot 1 with slot 8, slot 8 will go away.  If one of the slots removed had been formad, you will get reimbursed a forma.

The 1st directive it will take is to search for remaining ability polarities, it does not matter where those are located

if only 1 ability slot is found it will remove the upper right corner and the ability slot. If 0 are found it will remove the upper right and upper left corner slot. If you have 3/4 ability polarities the remaining one/two will be freed from the skill polarity

Actually DERebecca had it dev confirmed that it will prioritize removing any remaining scratch polarities first on page 38 post #760. 

 

The only times forma'd polarity slots are going to be sought out are if there is one or less ability polarities available.  If there is one or less available then the first previous scratch (that was originally located in spot 1) will be priority #1 and the second previous scratch (originally in spot 5) wil be priority #2 regardless of where they have moved.  At least thats the way that DE has explained it so far.

Yes right about that too

Edited October 23, 2014 by Seyenas

[Temmron]

So what happens when we forma a frame after U15 and it goes back to rank 0? Do all our abilities reset to their lowest level as well? Because frankly, that'd be a huge step backwards from the current system where you level up your abilities and they stay there (and you can still use some of them at forma-rank 0 thanks to the extra mod points you get from auras).

I do not think that will happen since you have already maxed the skills

However the devs have not officially said how this new ranking method is going to be utilized

You cannot say that it will be reset everytime you forma however you can also not say that this will not be the case

[Norry.]

@LuxLo

 

There are just too many benefits to the "Legendary Forma" method that make sense over the DE current solution.

By refunding all applied forma to every frame as a legendary forma (untradeable, of course) it solves every issue everyone has brought up.

All the legendary forma has to do is be usable on a frame (weapon, Kubrow, etc.) of any level, and not reset the level of what it was applied to.

 

Anyone who worked to apply 6 forma to a frame that would, in the new mod system, only need 3 or 4 would be refunded for that time and effort with an equal and fair compensation for the player to put where they want.

 

There is just no drawback I can think of beyond people complaining for the sake of complaining simply because others may have something that they don't. Even if it could never be traded and is only giving back time and effort players had already put in.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Norry.

[Temmron]

@LuxLo

 

There are just too many benefits to the "Legendary Forma" method that make sense over the DE current solution.

By refunding all applied forma to every frame as a legendary forma (untradeable, of course) it solves every issue everyone has brought up.

All the legendary forma has to do is be usable on a frame (weapon, Kubrow, etc.) of any level, and not reset the frame level.

 

Anyone who worked to apply 6 forma to a frame that would, in the new mod system, only need 3 or 4 would be refunded for that time and effort with an equal and fair compensation for the player to put where they want.

 

There is just no drawback I can think of beyond people complaining for the sake of complaining simply because others may have something that they don't. Even if it could never be traded and is only giving back time and effort players had already put in.

It is very much the right way to go about this and I think DE will be able to imagine something along those margins?

maybe a polarity token or something or a counter to how many times you can reforma something without it resetting to 0

Edited October 23, 2014 by Seyenas

[MirageKnight]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but It's my understanding that with this new "abilities as a feature of a 'Frame" change, that once a 'Frames abilities have been leveled up, they stay leveled even if you decide to use Forma to polarize a slot at a later date and reset the 'Frame's rank to zero.

 

Could a Dev confirm this?

[Ronyn]

Because the definition of power is subjective, I asked for explanation with the build.

I'm sorry, I was not expressing myself properly.

What I mean to say is that I believe you and I are both familiar with the variety of builds possible.

However, because the definition of power is subjective, even if we look at a specific build we won't necessarily agree on whether a build is more powerful or not. so....it seems like there is no point in doing it. It's better to simply agree to disagree.

 

I definitely won't be leaving the game because of this change, I already know I'll enjoy the overall change. 

That is good to know. :-)

 

 

The reason I've only been talking about these lost slots is because it's the only thing I don't like about the update. I don't like the fact that all mods have the downside of -1 mod slot, because our slots are heavily limited compared to the amount of mods we have. The power level of different mods is also so big that most mods don't give enough boost to whatever they boost to justify the -1 slot downside of using them. Losing slots will make that downside even worse.

 

This is the worst on warframes, since they have so many different mods, unlike weapons where the mods pretty much just help you kill faster.

To be honest with you I don't have an issue so much with loosing that one mod slot as I think much larger issues have put us in the situation we are currently in with mods.

Like....

The importance of each mod is varied but the power required doesn't always reflect that, some mods are just plain in need of balancing (buffs and nerfs), some mods shouldn't be on the frame but on the weapon, some mods shouldn't even exist as their feature should be standard.....

In my view if all of those things were fixed 8 mod slots would be fine. So I feel like whether we get 8 mod slots or 10 isn't really the issue.

[Erelas]

Ok, so...what about the mod UI layout that many folk have asked to have changed for the sheer sake of playability?  While I appreciate the work being done, the work that has been done to the mod UI has a definite need to be changed for the many players that can't equip or discern mods well because of it.  When I saw this post I had wondered if anything would be mentioned regarding this, b/c it's honestly one of the most look forward to changes of the game by some folks, especially those that haven't been able to play for a while due to the visual and color-blindness effect.  I for one haven't equipped any mods recently on my weapons just b/c of how irritating it is to sort through the new Mod UI system.

[ThePresident777]

Legendary Forma is better than what DE has proposed so far.  But, the best solution is to not take any slots away.  Leave us with 10, not 8.  Then All DE has to do is convert Z polarity slots to null polarity slots.  No refunds of any kind necessary.  No freebies.  No using legendary slots for other stuff.  Everyone's effort/time/plat stays right where they originally put it.  Doesn't get transferred to another item.  No sell off of old content to consolidate legendary forma and open up slots.  Nothing changes in this regard.

 

And, they have more slots to forma, which means more boosters to buy.  The game goes on, everybody wins.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Legendary Forma is better than what DE has proposed so far.  But, the best solution is to not take any slots away.  Leave us with 10, not 8.  Then All DE has to do is convert Z polarity slots to null polarity slots.  No refunds of any kind necessary.  No freebies.  No using legendary slots for other stuff.  Everyone's effort/time/plat stays right where they originally put it.  Doesn't get transferred to another item.  No sell off of old content to consolidate legendary forma and open up slots.  Nothing changes in this regard.

 

And, they have more slots to forma, which means more boosters to buy.  The game goes on, everybody wins.

10 Slots are just too much. 8 is the best solution, I could understand 9, but 8 is best.

 

We are too powerful already. People who use all abilities already get two extra slots, no need to give them four.

[Norry.]

The game could be balanced to 8 or 10 slots. Either way can be made workable.

 

Though with the variety of mods, and potential future variety of mods, 10 would open up a wider variety of builds.

 

That said, 8 would be fine as well with the proposed skill modifier slots. If you have 1-4 slots to modify the warframe abilities, there is, actually, near equality of 9-12 slots, depending on how that feature works and is implemented. That could, potentially, add even more variety than just the 10 slots alone could.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Norry.

[Vanadium]

I've wanted this for so long. It's good-bye to one-trick-pony builds and hello to my Loki being specced for melee and survivability.

 

I am going to be so OP.

 

Thanks, DE. And take your time on U15, since I know it's gonna be a good one.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Go4tfi5h

[Norry.]

@ Go4tfi5h

 

I think we are all looking forward to U15. We just don't want to have to spend many hours redoing things we have already done and have wasted efforts and resources (forma) because of a system/mechanics change when compensating equally for said efforts and resources would be so very easy to do.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Norry.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

Again, the problem is that the 8-slot system will force many builds to be redone entirely.  The result will either be the need to change polarities (requiring additional forma) or to have unused points (read: sub-optimal builds).  Legendary Forma would avoid this as you could quickly rebuild a frame without any time lost (just a few minutes to plan out the build).

 

As noted previously, most of my 3 forma builds can be achieved using only 1 forma with the 8-slot system.  This means that I have wasted 2 forma on many of my builds.  Legendary Forma would save me time in the future, in compensation for the time I had wasted in the past.

 

The best solution is to let us keep 10 slots.  As this has several concerns, Legendary Forma is the only applicable answer at this point.  All invested forma needs to be refunded when this change occurs, not just 2 of the 4 ability slots.  That way players can once again optimize their builds for the current system.  If any future changes are made, they will either have Legendary Forma remaining or they have used it to save time elsewhere.

[ThePresident777]

This is not the end of one trick pony builds because the crappy abilities will still be crappy.  People will mod for the abilities that matter to them and forget they are carrying the abilities that don't matter to them.

 

And, corrupted mods reinforce this even more, allowing you to improve your favorite abilities even more at the expense of abilities that didn't matter to begin with.  There is zero downside to ignoring an ability that does not matter to you.  And changing that would make the game extremely boring.

 

This is yet another change that doesn't accomplish what it's proponents claim it does.  So, I'm wondering what DE really expects out of this change because I find it hard to believe that DE does not see how this change does not change what some players expect it to change.  The difference between the actual results and the expect results appears obvious to me, and I expect no less from DE.