Ability Slot Removal, Yay Or Nay? (Poll Inside, Vote So De Can See What The Majority Thinks)

[Sebastianx]

In an effort to try and stop this madness, I created this poll to see what everyone thinks about this. In a world of already starving mod slots we all know a lot of us use builds centered around one ability, (like M Prime, Radial Blind, Radial Disarm, Vortex, and many more). But because of that, the reduction to 8 mod slots from 10 means we are forced to REMOVE one of our mods from those builds, which heavily gimps our play style, and maybe this poll might make DE reconsider that change.

 

http://strawpoll.me/2813912

^ Vote there and let's make a change.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sebastianx

[SquirmyBurrito]

I have my fingers crossed, but considering how every other poll I've seen goes I am not optimistic. 

[Sebastianx]

I have my fingers crossed, but considering how every other poll I've seen goes I am not optimistic. 

Sadly yes, I don't see why people would want them removed, guess people just don't want to have fun in this game and want to take everything way too serious...and I can't see why they'd get butthurt over how I want to play certain frames, It's my choice, if you don't like it, just go play the way you want.

[TrinityPrime]

I was really just hoping they'd make the two mod slots into utility mod slots for all those mods that are never used because there's a better defensive or offensive mod to use instead but that kinda hope is unrealistic for this game.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Sadly yes, I don't see why people would want them removed, guess people just don't want to have fun in this game and want to take everything way too serious...and I can't see why they'd get butthurt over how I want to play certain frames, It's my choice, if you don't like it, just go play the way you want.

 

Most of the responses I've been getting have been 'well, it doesn't hurt me so I don't care' 

[Sebastianx]

Most of the responses I've been getting have been 'well, it doesn't hurt me so I don't care' 

It doesn't hurt anyone if they just leave them as they are actually...but people fail to realise that.

[SquirmyBurrito]

It doesn't hurt anyone if they just leave them as they are actually...but people fail to realise that.

 

That's what I've been saying.

[Vaskadar]

I must not be in the majority then. Hell, I think it'd be a great boon for the game with the removal of ability mod cards from the game. Sure, you can't throw 9 mods in there any longer, but, considering that there were rare ability drops and just ability mod cards flooding the drop pool, I'm glad it's going to go away.

 

Some of us have been hoping this would happen for a very, very long time.

 

Keeping it the same only hampers the potential for ability trees and permutations.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Vaskadar

[SquirmyBurrito]

I must not be in the majority then. Hell, I think it'd be a great boon for the game with the removal of ability mod cards from the game. Sure, you can't throw 9 mods in there any longer, but, considering that there were rare ability drops and just ability mod cards flooding the drop pool, I'm glad it's going to go away.

 

Some of us have been hoping this would happen for a very, very long time.

 

Removing ability mods from the drop tables (and our builds) does not HAVE to come with the removal of two slots. They could always let us keep the four slots.

[xethier]

from what i've been given to understand the only way this affects you is if you're customizing your warframe to the point where you're only using a single ability.

 

if you use two or more, than this is actually a bonus as the new system allows for 8 mod slots and all abilities already available. (a net gain of two slots assuming all abilities)

 

yes, this would be a reduction for those players that only use a single slot... 

 

overall, this is a positive for the majority of the players. as well as a removal of the ability drops from the tables.

[StinkyPygmy]

Heres the issue with a poll though: The forums only represents a tiny fraction of the player base.

 

As for why there are players that feel removing mods slots is fine, let me direct you to something said on another thread regarding the issue: 

 

"I still question the idea of choice we have now. Its either run the few popular specific min/max builds or don't. That honestly seems like a lack of choice. Especially if those builds are considered to be a million times better then all other builds (whether they are or not is debatable). In which case its select the current meta build or be less effective then those that are running it.

It seems very clear that builds that specialize to such and extreme, especially ones that take advantage of obviously unintended effects or mechanics would be phased out sooner or later and that these 1 trick pony builds, were not intended.

I understand why this bothers some players but I think we need to look at the bigger picture and realize this is only a problem to begin with because of how broken some of the games mechanics are. How some powers are arguably useless and some are so OP that you can get by with nothing but a few corrupted mods and spamming one ability key.

There is a bigger issue at stake here.
This is just a symptom."

 

The problem in a nutshell, is that players feel the need to remove all their abilities and break the one they have left in the first place.

Its obvious that many of these mechanics are unintended and broken. Sure I sit in the camp of players that are actually gaining two slots, but even if I was a player that did use one ability builds I would still embrace this change because it sets things up for the future and highlights some of the major power mechanic problems WF has. 

Hopefully now some lackluster powers will get looked at and the dmg corrupted mods has done will be rebalanced.

Either way, one trick pony builds will still work for now. You might just be missing a utility slot.

Edited October 19, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[fishworshipper]

While I don't mind only having 8 mod slots with 0 ability mods, I wont say 'no' to 10 mod slots with 0 ability mods.

 

However, I'll all for removing ability mods. Thank F%^#ing Christ for that.

Edited October 19, 2014 by fishworshipper

[Archeyef]

Sadly yes, I don't see why people would want them removed, guess people just don't want to have fun in this game and want to take everything way too serious...and I can't see why they'd get butthurt over how I want to play certain frames, It's my choice, if you don't like it, just go play the way you want.

 

Yes, but see, that's the thing. For those of us who play with all abilities, it's not a loss of anything. It's a gain of two mod slots.

 

Nobody wants them removed. I think it'd be awesome if we got to keep all four. But from my standpoint, gaining two slots instead of gaining four slots is still a gain.

 

Unless you're talking about removing the ability mods, in which case my answer is, I'm for it because I don't want to see ability mods dropping from enemies when I could be getting other mods. It unclutters the mod drop tables, and probably means that non-ability rare mods will have a higher chance of dropping. Which is good.

 

And what's this about "not wanting to have fun in this game?" And taking the game too serious? We aren't the ones up in arms about losing a mod slot. Our builds do not require that extra mod slot. If that is what you're talking about.

 

Honestly, I feel you've misrepresented the opposing side. We are not viewing this as a loss, because for us it is not a loss. We're not happy that they are removing mod slots, we're happy that we get an additional two mod slots.

[Jinryusai]

I must not be in the majority then. Hell, I think it'd be a great boon for the game with the removal of ability mod cards from the game. Sure, you can't throw 9 mods in there any longer, but, considering that there were rare ability drops and just ability mod cards flooding the drop pool, I'm glad it's going to go away.

 

Some of us have been hoping this would happen for a very, very long time.

 

Keeping it the same only hampers the potential for ability trees and permutations.

You seem to be reading a different thread, yet ended up posting in this one...

[StinkyPygmy]

Yes, but see, that's the thing. For those of us who play with all abilities, it's not a loss of anything. It's a gain of two mod slots.

 

Nobody wants them removed. I think it'd be awesome if we got to keep all four. But from my standpoint, gaining two slots instead of gaining four slots is still a gain.

 

Unless you're talking about removing the ability mods, in which case my answer is, I'm for it because I don't want to see ability mods dropping from enemies when I could be getting other mods. It unclutters the mod drop tables, and probably means that non-ability rare mods will have a higher chance of dropping. Which is good.

 

And what's this about "not wanting to have fun in this game?" And taking the game too serious? We aren't the ones up in arms about losing a mod slot. Our builds do not require that extra mod slot. If that is what you're talking about.

 

Honestly, I feel you've misrepresented the opposing side. We are not viewing this as a loss, because for us it is not a loss. We're not happy that they are removing mod slots, we're happy that we get an additional two mod slots.

^^^ this.

I would be fine if things stayed the way they are as long as it led to major power imbalances being addressed eventually.

Most of use are happy about gaining two slots, not that some players are losing some. Its safe to say that a majority of the player base (Important: not forums, playerbase) does not run one ability builds and as such is profiting from this.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Heres the issue with a poll though: The forums only represents a tiny fraction of the player base.

 

As for why there are players that feel removing mods slots is fine, let me direct you to something said on another thread regarding the issue: 

 

"I still question the idea of choice we have now. Its either run the few popular specific min/max builds or don't. That honestly seems like a lack of choice. Especially if those builds are considered to be a million times better then all other builds (whether they are or not is debatable). In which case its select the current meta build or be less effective then those that are running it.

It seems very clear that builds that specialize to such and extreme, especially ones that take advantage of obviously unintended effects or mechanics would be phased out sooner or later and that these 1 trick pony builds, were not intended.

I understand why this bothers some players but I think we need to look at the bigger picture and realize this is only a problem to begin with because of how broken some of the games mechanics are. How some powers are arguably useless and some are so OP that you can get by with nothing but a few corrupted mods and spamming one ability key.

There is a bigger issue at stake here.

This is just a symptom."

 

The problem in a nutshell, is that players feel the need to remove all their abilities and break the one they have left in the first place.

Its obvious that many of these mechanics are unintended and broken. Sure I sit in the camp of players that are actually gaining two slots, but even if I was a player that did use one ability builds I would still embrace this change because it sets things up for the future and highlights some of the major power mechanic problems WF has. 

Hopefully now some lackluster powers will get looked at and the dmg corrupted mods has done will be rebalanced.

 

Several problems with this:

 

1. You aren't forced to min-max.

 

2. Taking away our slots isn't going to stop us or force us to stop using cookie-cutter builds. It will just make them even more uniform as we're forced to give up one mod that could potentially have been used to differentiate our builds.

 

3. 'obviously unintended effects or mechanics' Such as? If DE didn't intend for us to be able to forma out ability slots they wouldn't have given us the ability. And DE's intent with corrupted mods was exactly what it is that we use them for. They made sure to avoid certain big issues by capping efficiency and even changed heavy cal when it became obvious that it wasn't properly hindering all weapons.

 

4. Why would DE try to get rid of specialist builds (one trick pony insulting)? How does this change do anything to prevent players from building around one of their abilities while ignoring the others?

 

5. This bigger issue you mention isn't being addressed by this change.

 

Some abilities needing an overhaul is not something that this change is going to fix. I'm not sure why so many people are bringing it up in these threads.

 

DE should let us keep all four that way at the absolute worst, those of us using none of our abilities aren't losing any slots.

[Lluid]

I'm not a big advocate of the proposed change, but I have to say that your poll is biased. Claiming "10 mod slots" gives the impression that you could have 4 abilities and 10 other mods installed. You should say "6 to 10 mod slots depending on abilities installed".

 

I'm one of the guys who use one-ability-builds but are sorry to do so. Warframes are designed with 4 abilities, so it's sad not to use them. Now I see two ways to make things better :

 - ability reworks of course (including synergies), so that you don't want to use only one,

 - an unlockable 9th slot could still be considered. Not more in my opinion.

[Cannamancer]

It doesn't hurt anyone if they just leave them as they are actually...but people fail to realise that.

Lol realize what exactly? That this poll will be ignored cause it's pointless. I think some of you need to re watch the dev stream in slo mo maybe then you'll get it :3, then again probably not :D

[Jinryusai]

Considering they are replacing abilities mods with ability enhancing mods(Syndicate exclusive yet tradable mods), it would seem like a step backwards removing two mod slots if you think about it.

 

Once again people shall choose to focus on 1-2 powers, most likely one neglecting the others due to lack of space.

 

But it's a damn good thing powers are now attached to warframes by the hip, it really made no sense to "equip" powers, but I suppose it's no different from equipping skills. So in the end, this change is magnificent despite the drawback.

 

But I suppose the idea is to provide them with all powers, not give them the incentive to use or make' em use them so in the end, not much shall change once they get those new enhancement mods, that's if things change at all.

 

 

 

 

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

 

Pity

[Sebastianx]

And what's this about "not wanting to have fun in this game?" And taking the game too serious? We aren't the ones up in arms about losing a mod slot. Our builds do not require that extra mod slot. If that is what you're talking about.

Let me tell you about my most radical build out of all the frames, Mag. I build her solely around Pull, max range, max efficiency, energy and with survivability mods and speed mods for quick re-positioning. Now, I don't play her because she's OP like that, (because she is not in most cases, unless there's a ledge you can pull enemies to fall down into) BUT I play her because I LOVE seeing a whole room of enemies ragdoll and flying around as if I'm remaking Duck Hunt for the NES in Warframe.

Now, if I get denied one of those slots I am forced to remove my speed/survivability which means I am forced to hide in a small corner spamming 1 hoping something doesn't kill me.

Now do you see what I mean by not having fun? Less is just that...less. It's not more.

[StinkyPygmy]

Several problems with this:

 

1. You aren't forced to min-max.

 

2. Taking away our slots isn't going to stop us or force us to stop using cookie-cutter builds. It will just make them even more uniform as we're forced to give up one mod that could potentially have been used to differentiate our builds.

 

3. 'obviously unintended effects or mechanics' Such as? If DE didn't intend for us to be able to forma out ability slots they wouldn't have given us the ability. And DE's intent with corrupted mods was exactly what it is that we use them for. They made sure to avoid certain big issues by capping efficiency and even changed heavy cal when it became obvious that it wasn't properly hindering all weapons.

 

4. Why would DE try to get rid of specialist builds (one trick pony insulting)? How does this change do anything to prevent players from building around one of their abilities while ignoring the others?

 

5. This bigger issue you mention isn't being addressed by this change.

 

Some abilities needing an overhaul is not something that this change is going to fix. I'm not sure why so many people are bringing it up in these threads.

 

DE should let us keep all four that way at the absolute worst, those of us using none of our abilities aren't losing any slots.

1) Didn't say anyone was forced to min/max. I just stated that there is a distinct lack of choice as it is min/max, or don't. There is very little in between.

 

2) No it wont force anyone to give them up, but it sets things in motion to be fixed and changed. There is less build diversity when the meta is the meta and outclasses everything by miles.

 

3) Speed Nova is a good example of something obviously unintended. If DE intended hyper-specilisation then they wouldn't be hurting those builds with such a change, they would find another way or give us 4 slots.

 

4) There is specialization (blind rage, sonar focused banshee for insistence) and then there is the hyper-specilization of one ability builds. I'm not shaming these builds, except in instances similar to speed nova which is borderline trolling. Many of these issue haven't been managed.

 

5) this will hopefully set things in motion to fix the issue of "useless" powers.

 

The game is known to still be in development and that any changes DE makes are heading towards the end goal. The fact this is an issue highlights a lot of problems. Obviously DE did not intend for a huge portion of powers they worked hard to add to the game to be ignored. Some players may not use one or two, but removing everything to run a negative spammy build means its pretty obvious something is broken if that is "the meta".

 

Look at it as the glass is half full rather then empty. If this were to lead to power imbalances being addressed, one ability builds would be redundant. It could lead to more engaging game play and actual diversity. As it is now its just case of min/max or don't. Which is a lack of diversity if anything. No matter how you look at it, the fact so many abilities are flat ignored is a problem. I've had my builds broken or hurt quite a few times. I just moved on and found better, more interesting and fun builds. I experimented and played around. The end result was that I found better and more interesting builds, that were way more fun.

 

Ultimately, if this paves the road for improvements in ability mechanics and breaths new life into old frames with lackluster skill sets, then all it will be is a new way to play and hopefully an improvement. The issue is players are so attached to their builds even the slightest change is seen as a big issue. If you adapt and experiment with the changes and embrace future improvements this type of stuff will be a none issue.

 

Sure DE is known to make mistakes, but in this instance the only thing I'm worried they might goof is augmentations. If they make ability mutators mods, rather then something attached to the ability itself, then It will hurt everyone, especially one ability builds.

If anything, that is what we should be concerned about.

Edited October 19, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[Archeyef]

Let me tell you about my most radical build out of all the frames, Mag. I build her solely around Pull, max range, max efficiency, energy and with survivability mods and speed mods for quick re-positioning. Now, I don't play her because she's OP like that, (because she is not in most cases, unless there's a ledge you can pull enemies to fall down into) BUT I play her because I LOVE seeing a whole room of enemies ragdoll and flying around as if I'm remaking Duck Hunt for the NES in Warframe.

Now, if I get denied one of those slots I am forced to remove my speed/survivability which means I am forced to hide in a small corner spamming 1 hoping something doesn't kill me.

Now do you see what I mean by not having fun? Less is just that...less. It's not more.

 

I do see that, and I already saw it. But not everyone plays like that. Not everyone is so specialized, because they have more fun using more than one of the abilities. And in fact, I'm willing to bet that the majority of people don't only use and build for one ability. This change actually supports the more generalized style of play. And since I'm pretty sure most of the playerbase does not build for and use only one ability, I'm also pretty sure it is best for the game and the playerbase on a whole if this change is made.

 

But as I've said, and feel like I should say again, I am not necessarily against keeping all four slots. In fact I'd love it if that happened. But for us that play with all abilities, we are functionally gaining two slots. So from that perspective this isn't a loss. I've always seen your point of view since the objections started being raised. You're the one that said you didn't understand, so I'm trying to explain it.

[SquirmyBurrito]

1) Didn't say anyone was forced to min/max. I just stated that there is a distinct lack of choice as it is min/max, or don't. There is very little in between.

 

2) No it wont force anyone to give them up, but it sets things in motion to be fixed and changed. There is less build diversity when the meta is the meta and outclasses everything by miles.

 

3) Speed Nova is a good example of something obviously unintended. If DE intended hyper-specilisation then they wouldn't be hurting those builds with such a change, they would find another way or give us 4 slots.

 

4) There is specialization (blind rage, sonar banshee for insistence) and then there is the hyper-specilization of one ability builds. I'm not shaming these builds, except in instances similar to speed nova which is borderline trolling. Many of these issue haven't been managed.

 

5) this will hopefully set things in motion to fix the issue of "useless" powers.

 

The game is known to still be in development and that any changes DE makes are heading towards the end goal. The fact this is an issue highlights a lot of problems. Obviously DE did not intend for a huge portion of powers they worked hard to add to the game to be ignored. Some players may not use one or two, but removing everything to run a negative spammy build means its pretty obvious something is broken if that is "the meta".

 

Look at it as the glass is half full rather then empty. If this were to lead to power imbalances being addressed, one ability builds would be redundant. It could lead to more engaging game play and actual diversity. As it is now its just case of min/max or don't. Which is a lack of diversity if anything. No matter how you look at it, the fact so many abilities are flat ignored is a problem.

 

Ultimately, if this paves the road for improvements in ability mechanics and breaths new life into old frames with lackluster skill sets, then all it will be is a new way to play and hopefully an improvement. The issue is players are so attached to their builds even the slightest change is seen as a big issue. If you adapt and experiment with the changes and embrace future improvements this type of stuff will be a none issue.

 

Sure DE is known to make mistakes, but in this instance the only thing I'm worried they might goof is augmentations. If they make ability mutators mods, rather then something attached to the ability itself, then It will hurt everyone, especially one ability builds.

If anything, that is what we should be concerned about.

 

1. I completely disagree. With mods having multiple ranks and various mods cancelling each other, there is plenty of room for experimentation.

 

2. Not really. All this does it make players even less likely to equip support/utility mods. I also fail to see how this will change the meta.

 

3. The fact that DE didn't go in and stop speed nova from existing kinda lends credit to the assumption that DE has no issue with it. From what was said in the livestream it sounds like they're trying to help prevent players from feeling like they have to choose between an ability and another mod. I don't remember them saying anything that sounds like they're against specialization.

 

4. You're attempting to create a difference where none exists. Sonar Banshee is no different than Speed Nova. Both are very specific builds with specific goals. Speed Nova can also be incredibly useful for speeding up farming and is far from the only ability capable of being used for trolling.

 

5. I fail to see how it does. As far as I can tell it is only slightly related due to it being a change that affects abilities. 

 

Again, this change has very little to do with this and it isn't going to change the meta. Giving us access to all of our abilities isn't going to stop players from specializing and ignoring their unwanted abilities.

 

I am completely confused as to why you feel the need to discuss ability improvements in a thread where it is completely irrelevant. 

 

That is a discussion for a completely different thread.

[SoulEchelon]

In an effort to try and stop this madness, I created this poll to see what everyone thinks about this. In a world of already starving mod slots we all know a lot of us use builds centered around one ability, (like M Prime, Radial Blind, Radial Disarm, Vortex, and many more). But because of that, the reduction to 8 mod slots from 10 means we are forced to REMOVE one of our mods from those builds, which heavily gimps our play style, and maybe this poll might make DE reconsider that change.

 

http://strawpoll.me/2813912

^ Vote there and let's make a change.

 

Your poll is incredibly skewed against the change.

 

Instead of explaining exactly what's going on with the update, you simply posed the question "Do you want 10 mod slots or 8 mod slots?" and of course everyone who hasn't read up on what the changes truly are, are going to pick the former.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Your poll is incredibly skewed against the change.

 

Instead of explaining exactly what's going on with the update, you simply posed the question "Do you want 10 mod slots or 8 mod slots?" and of course everyone who hasn't read up on what the changes truly are, are going to pick the former.

 

That's exactly what the change boils down to. The removal of ability mods isn't something that has to be tied to the removal of two slots. The question is literally just about whether or not you agree with DE also removing two slots. I'm actually pretty sure most people who are against keeping all the slots are under the impression that the removal of ability mods is something that HAS to be tied to DE cutting out two slots. If not for that, there is very little reason to agree with that portion of the change.