Ability Slot Removal, Yay Or Nay? (Poll Inside, Vote So De Can See What The Majority Thinks)

[taiiat]

i found a flaw in your poll.

 

you're asking the forums. asking 1% of the community (this 1% includes that vocal minority that is against balance and everything else, and only for having as much 'muh stats' as possible).

 

so this poll is useless.

maybe if the announcement thread had a poll in it, which would hopefully mean people would understand what's happening before voting, instead of voting blindly - and that announcement thread was a forced read for anyone that logs in to Warframe, AND was plastered in the Launcher, AND was plastered in the update logs and Steam News feed.... and some other places - then maybe, just maybe.... you'll get 10% of your players to vote on it.

 

 

tl;dr - this is skewed and therefore not an actual representation of the truth.

[Blazer-X]

Personal opinion: I really like DE's change as is, because I don't run around in any build using less than 3 abilities (and therefore will only benefit from this). Mainly due to conservation of Forma in addition to finding some niche use with each ability.

 

That said, I did vote for no removal of slots because I don't mind universal power creep. A lot of my frames could really use some survival increases, something they are sorely missing due to all the ability augment slots. In addition, if we have ability-specific modifiers coming out, it would be a good idea to have more slots in advance for them.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Would really like if we had just 9 + 1 Aura so that builds that were catered around 1 ability would not be affected and we would just be gaining more abilities.

[SquirmyBurrito]

asking 1% of the community (this 1% includes that vocal minority that is against balance and everything else and only for having as much 'muh stats' as possible)

 

1. Where are you getting the exact 1% figure from? Cite a source.

 

2. How do you know who is and who isn't the minority in this issue? Cite a source.

 

3. Do not attempt to devalue our feedback by slandering us. Being against this change doesn't make us against balance or 'everything else'.

 

4. There is nothing wrong with choosing to forsake abilities for stats.

 

5. Come back when you have an actual argument.

[taiiat]

-snip-

all Forums are a vocal minority of an entire community.

and among that small percentage (5% tops), is another vocal minority, but that isn't really directly related to this topic.

 

who is and isn't the minority? we're all the minority. if you want to make a poll, atleast show it to most of the community, not the relatively close knit forum.

 

feel free to needlessly take everything as a personal attack, that's what we do on the Internet, right. well, no. i did not specify who might be in that vocal minority of the vocal minority. just that it exists.

 

 

i don't have an argument because i'm not arguing. as arguing is pointless. these are truths, nothing more and nothing less.

when Volt_Cruelerz made a poll for who thought what frame was balanced, OP, or whatever - we had like, less than 2000 vote submissions in total.

because the forums are only a small fraction of all the players.

[Retrikaethan]

i'd like to keep 10 mod slots because i just want those other 3-4 slots to stuff more stuff into. realistically, 8 slots would be quite fair. though this does not solve the issue of many mods being considered useless. see pretty much every resistance, stamina, or otherwise unique kind of mod like heavy impact, maglev, and/or provoked. it would still be nice to get a separate place for mods like these because while they're not considered as good as power mods (or this seems to be the consensus from what i've seen) they can be extremely useful if they don't have to take the same space as the "best" mods. i sure as hell would use sprint if i didn't have to sacrifice that last power/defensive mod for it.

[Kurrumitsumi]

Sadly yes, I don't see why people would want them removed, guess people just don't want to have fun in this game and want to take everything way too serious...and I can't see why they'd get butthurt over how I want to play certain frames, It's my choice, if you don't like it, just go play the way you want.

 

i dont see why people got to be so butt hurt over me not wanting ability mods, its like they dont want to have fun and are taking this way too seriously.. i cant believe they dont want to just let me play my frames the way i want with all  of my abilitys, its my choice and if you dont like it just get over it

[SquirmyBurrito]

all Forums are a vocal minority of an entire community.

and among that small percentage (5% tops), is another vocal minority, but that isn't really directly related to this topic.

 

who is and isn't the minority? we're all the minority. if you want to make a poll, atleast show it to most of the community, not the relatively close knit forum.

 

feel free to needlessly take everything as a personal attack, that's what we do on the Internet, right. well, no. i did not specify who might be in that vocal minority of the vocal minority. just that it exists.

 

 

i don't have an argument because i'm not arguing. as arguing is pointless. these are truths, nothing more and nothing less.

when Volt_Cruelerz made a poll for who thought what frame was balanced, OP, or whatever - we had like, less than 2000 vote submissions in total.

because the forums are only a small fraction of all the players.

 

The people on the forums are indeed in the minority. But you can not use that to then claim that people you disagree with are the vocal minority or that in-game, these people do or do not represent the actual majority.

 

You can only do so much with a poll. And from what I've been told and read, my game devs generally assume that the forums represents an ultra concentrated version of the kinds of demographics you'd see among the people in-game of the regions represented in the forums.

 

Very little of what you stated in that previous post were substantiated claims.

[Jinryusai]

in the end, what matters is the influence of the vocal minority...

[MechaKnight]

when Volt_Cruelerz made a poll for who thought what frame was balanced, OP, or whatever - we had like, less than 2000 vote submissions in total.

because the forums are only a small fraction of all the players.

Out of this minority, an even smaller amount of people would actually care enough to vote on these polls. We know DE does what they will, they've had months of observations recorded and decided on it before they announced it to us. Most forum frequenters are lurkers who are concerned about the state of the game, but understand for the majority of situations, our participation on the forums will not change DE policy.

 

Really, we're just here to make small talk with each other, and make creative suggestions. However, there's still merit to this--a social community and a fountain of ideas gives the developers more insight.

Edited October 19, 2014 by MechaKnight

[LukeAura]

Shouldn't it technically be 9 if we're being fair to the 1 ability builds? Which would look ugly in the UI.  
10s just a straight up buff, although I suppose at that point one would need to actually find a frame build that is broken due to the extra one/two mods, or just preference. And with players more generally sounds better so I think this level of balancing is best left to DE than a community poll. 


If any one cares, 
8 fits with the current point limit, a fully formad loadout, using the top most expensive mods will cost 58.5 out of 60. 
10 would fit in to the current point limit with a matching aura of at least 7 points, but this means not every 10 mod build is possible, no matter how much effort is put in to it, while every 8 mod build is.
9 would work with every neutral aura build, but a very few auras that have only a 5 point bonus would fail it, although this can be formad as well. So I'm going to vote 8. 

Edited October 19, 2014 by LukeAura

[Kurrumitsumi]

-snip-

 I think this level of balancing is best left to DE than a community poll. 

 

all my this^

[StinkyPygmy]

One thing I'm glad you mentioned is the HEINOUS assumptions that players make about DE's intentions regarding game design.  Everyone seems to know what DE did or didn't have in mind when creating something, how it was supposed to work, but "Great Zeus' Gallbladder, Rebecca!! They are using forma on ability slots!! Who'da thunk it?"   Pfft.

 

Basically, all I see is a bunch of people assuming that the entire system is broken or exploited by min/maxers, and only they, the chosen few, know how this game is supposed to work.  Hell, not even DE knows that supposedly.

Probably because DE has actually stated their intentions regarding the matter and their actions speak louder then words. 

The fact is its sink or swim. But the attachment to the now rather then considering the future seems to be the MO.

 There is so much focus on the little picture rather then the reasons as to why this actually hurts some people. I'll stop there because repeating my whole "symptom of a larger issue" point is clearly not going to put things into a little bit of perspective.

 

The idea that one can only have fun in a specific scenario they have grown used to is rather bizarre. 

People can still run one ability builds which is fine, but like someone else said, you're kidding yourself if a majority of players would use the extra slots for utility if we were given 4 more. It will just be more slots for maglev etc to not be put in.

 

I feel for players that are effectively losing slots, but regardless of what DE does there will always be players that feel like they are being kicked in the face. Either because change is scary and people hate adapting or simply because DE knows that pleasing everyone would lead to chaos. 

 

*abandons thread*

Edited October 19, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[CY13ERPUNK]

I was really just hoping they'd make the two mod slots into utility mod slots for all those mods that are never used because there's a better defensive or offensive mod to use instead but that kinda hope is unrealistic for this game.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[SquirmyBurrito]

10s just a straight up buff, although I suppose at that point one would need to actually find a frame build that is broken due to the extra one/two mods, or just preference.  

 

I have still not been provided with a  build that buffs a frames abilities to a point that is more powerful than currently possible and that doesn't sacrifice abilities (narrowminded on loki and still trying to use radial disarm).

 

Probably because DE has actually stated their intentions regarding the matter and their actions speak louder then words. 

The fact is its sink or swim. But the attachment to the now rather then considering the future seems to be the MO.

The idea that one can only have fun in a specific scenario they have grown used to is rather bizarre. 

People can still run one ability builds which is fine, but like someone else said, you're kidding yourself if a majority of players would use the extra slots for utility if we were given 4 more. It will just be more slots for maglev etc to not be put in.

 

Four extra slots doesn't increase the relative power of 3-4 ability users by enough to be worth mentioning. As if they go for corrupted mods they end up either nerfing two or more of their abilities, or they gimp the corrupted mods by pairing the ones that cancel each other other thus ending with barely any additional power. It isn't like people aren't already planning on using those extra mods to try and up their power. Giving them two extra isn't going to change anything in the grand scheme of things and it will stop players like me from having to decide which two utility mods I am going to have to cut out of my build (thus moving me closer to using a generic cookie cutter build).

[LukeAura]

I have still not been provided with a  build that buffs a frames abilities to a point that is more powerful than currently possible and that doesn't sacrifice abilities (narrowminded on loki and still trying to use radial disarm).

Valkyr build running a combination of Steel Fibre+Vitality and 7 ability affecting mods.

Buffed version adds Redirection+Vigor to improve paralysis without harming any of her abilities. She isn't reliant on those shields any ways and it gives her more of them on top so it isn't sacrificing anything. 

 

[Crewell]

I like the change. I've always played with all four powers on every frame. I've never seen people sub more than one or two powers for other mods. Of course it probably happens, but it's probably an extremely small percentage of the player base that does it.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Crewell

[taiiat]

it will stop players like me from having to decide which two utility mods I am going to have to cut out of my build (thus moving me closer to using a generic cookie cutter build).

you(or someone) could say that until you have all Mods in the game simultaneously equipped.

 

Digital Extremes need only decide what number of Slots they consider balanced with the currrent Mods.

[MechaKnight]

Digital Extremes need only decide what number of Slots they consider balanced with the currrent Mods.

They said 8 mod slots for the upcoming rework. It seems they have already decided. Unless they adjust their declaration, it's all in print.

Edited October 20, 2014 by MechaKnight

[SquirmyBurrito]

Valkyr build running a combination of Steel Fibre+Vitality and 7 ability affecting mods.

Buffed version adds Redirection+Vigor to improve paralysis without harming any of her abilities. She isn't reliant on those shields any ways and it gives her more of them on top so it isn't sacrificing anything. 

 

 

Your starting build doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to fit 7 ability affecting mods+two more into 6 available slots (four abilities+6 extra slots). You'd have to scrap several of those to make it fit.

 

Your buffed version doesn't make all that much sense either because (assuming we keep all ten slots) the build still has to sacrifice one of your proposed mods to fit the additional two (unless I am completely messing up my math right now).

 

If your original example was supposed to be a one ability set up that suddenly gets even more powerful you not only missed what it was that I was asking, you also still ended up messing up the math.

 

Now, a four ability build for this valkyr would be four abilities + 6 more mods. The buffed version of this mod would (out of your selection) allow you to bring all those ability affecting mods:

 

1. Intensify

2. Constitution

3. Continuity

4. Streamline

5. Stretch

6. Flow  <---This would probably not be in the original build

7. Natural Talent <---And neither would this

-------------------------

8. Vitality

9. Steel Fiber

10. Redirection

11. Vigor

 

Which would lead to a basic level of power that can't compete with a specialist + being able to bring a health/armor/shield mod or two depending upon what you choose to sacrifice. The sum total of your suggested mods leave the player with a well-rounded, but generally weak frame (ability wise) that isn't squishy. Other desirable mods would compete for space.

 

I would be fine if DE gave us two utility only slots in the place of the two all-purpose slots that they removed as it would still allow my ability-less builds to exist without giving four ability users any larger an increase in power than DE was already planning. Seriously, adding abilities on-top of this (http://goo.gl/hdVv3b) build doesn't make it overpowered or even remotely more powerful than already possible as far as gameplay goes.

 

you(or someone) could say that until you have all Mods in the game simultaneously equipped.

 

Digital Extremes need only decide what number of Slots they consider balanced with the currrent Mods.

 

No, as I'm not arguing for more slots than what we currently have. I am purely asking that my no-ability builds not have any slots cut out of them.

[LukeAura]

Your starting build doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to fit 7 ability affecting mods+two more into 6 available slots (four abilities+6 extra slots). You'd have to scrap several of those to make it fit.

I assumed we were talking about 1 or 2 ability builds, not 4. Then just about any frame should be able do it. Except for ones that have absolutely no purpose running certain stats like a Loki running power strength. 

 

Edited October 20, 2014 by LukeAura

[SquirmyBurrito]

I assumed we were talking about 1 or 2 ability builds, not 4. Then just about any frame should be able do it. Except for ones that have absolutely no purpose running certain stats like a Loki running power strength. 

 

 

I just explained why that isn't true.

[VDeorsum]

I was really just hoping they'd make the two mod slots into utility mod slots for all those mods that are never used because there's a better defensive or offensive mod to use instead but that kinda hope is unrealistic for this game.

^THIS

[Deios-Ken]

Stop YOUR madness. This change is extremely good, except for the few, boring, professional players with 1a-build-ity.

YOU (pro-players) lose 1 slot, WE (noobs, bad players, casual gamers, normal players, good players, competitive players) gain 2 slots.

[VDeorsum]

 

Stop YOUR madness. This change is extremely good, except for the few, boring, professional players with 1a-build-ity.

YOU (pro-players) lose 1 slot, WE (noobs, bad players, casual gamers, normal players, good players, competitive players) gain 2 slots.

 

and why not keep all 10 slots? more option and finally the possibility to use the utility mod without sacrifice some important mods