Rollerlane Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 why are weapons in this game either borderline OP (Boltor P), garbage (Braton, Viper/Dual Vipers) or not even viable (sniper rifles, some shotguns) so can we please get some real balancing? inb4 "but my 8 forma potato'd tigris can out dps blah blah blah" weapons should be fairly balanced before forma and viable, which is not the case with a large amount weapons in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Boltor P doesn't need to be balanced, it just needs to be harder to get (aside from void farming) it should have higher mastery rank requirement. Some weapons need buffs while others need a drastic re-work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djuice_ Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Yup, there are only a few weapons that are useful for end game play... and others that are practically useless and used from mastery points.. I do hope that the new syndicate mods in U15s will make more of the useless weapons viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 DE is going to Tier the weapons, they've stated as much in the prior Devstreams. Of course, we know that the primes will most likely be Top Tier, so Boltor and the rest are gonna be very good. The rest of the Tiering is still yet to be clear. The hard thing is as well, is that we don't have a set end-game to build around, or enemies to fight against that can take this kind of damage. DE might introduce higher level enemies with the incoming 5th faction, a thing most likely guaranteed. For now some may feel that some weapons are overpowering, but when we have enemies that can handle Top Tier damage, they'll feel just right for the jobs. I wouldn't consider the Endless modes a good thing to build around because they're built to be Endless, thus the enemy heath and armor scales beyond anything else in the game. I'd consider when we have higher end content that isn't just health boosts and armor buffs to enemies a good time to see what's in the Top Tier, and what within the Top Tier needs to be buffed/reworked. Also, the added variable of modifications to the weapons also makes it hard to balance. The freedom of the mod system allows for a variety of builds that are viable and lethal in different ways, thus, we are able to create powerful weapons from those that would seem normal. We are the added variable that Scott has to work with, we aren't just a number, we're an entire person who can alter and change mods and magnify them. The Soma can keep pace with the Boltor P, the crit king can do some great damage. So can the Paris Prime, the Dread, and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photon95 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The only problem is mastery. Just tweak the ranks a bit and they can make as many op guns as they want for all I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otenko Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Yeah, weapons are unbalanced and yeah, new weapons that come out are definitely better than the ones that came out earlier in the game's lifespan. Part of it is due to changing content, part of it seems due to some power creep. I can understand weapons being a little better than they used to be, especially since getting a new unranked weapon wasn't even an upgrade (until it got to like rank 15). Which definitely feels a little disappointing. Then again, this was in the past and weapons are definitely more enjoyable to use upon acquisition. Although, there needs to be an implemented limit on things, because our power is totally spiraling out of control. I feel like the introduction of Forma really changed weapons and frames significantly. Innate polarities are suddenly less meaningful as you can just add one if you want. But it still means you have to put in work for that weapon to be good. I honestly feel like weapon imbalance in partly due to Forma in conjunction with the mod system. If they introduce a tiering system, I'd like to see there to be a polarity limit on some weapons based on that tiering system, to be honest. The weapons that are already at the top of the food chain (Brakk, Boltor Prime, Paris Prime, Dread, Latron Prime, Dakra, D. Nikana) all already have polarities, but for how good they are, I feel like they should really only get 1 extra polarity (although you can keep using Forma on it to change the polarities as you want). Weapons that aren't as good (especially those with no polarities, like the Vulkar, Tigris, or Machete) should probably get up to 4-5 polarities. After all, you don't see anyone complaining that a Vulkar is too strong with 5 Forma but those top tier weapons usually require fewer Forma to achieve desired builds and are already better from the outset. People complain that the game is too easy and that there's nothing to do, and yet hate it anytime there's a nerf inbound. DE should really be more steadfast with some changes instead of backpedaling due to knee-jerk fan reactions. Then, maybe after some time passes and the initial fervor dies down, people can take an informed viewpoint. Edited October 19, 2014 by Otenko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichouette Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I still can't understand why the akbronco prime is less powerful than a bronco prime.... it's supposed to be the same weapon but twice and still it's less powerful. Weapon's logic in this game is totally broken. Like the mitter that shoot bullet with a sawblade model or dagger like the sheev that are super slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Cartographer Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Weapons balance is only largely broken if you look at their capabilities past, at a guess, level 30 content (and really, only Grineer heavies start screwing over some weapons this early.) The Boltor Prime isn't OP per se, it just goes further than the Braton on the endless level scale, which isn't what this game is balanced around. The endless level scale is designed to soft cap a defense or survival run, in particular, until players can't kill their enemies or the player is dying too easily to enemy gunfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)PoeticProdigal Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) inb4 "but my 8 forma potato'd tigris can out dps blah blah blah" May I be so bold to add, "but I use my un-potatoed MK-1 Braton and ALWAYS get the most kills." Derp. +1 OP. You put a smile on my face with that all-too-true remark. In fact, I admire your bravado in initiating another "weapons balance" thread. They always just seem to end up becoming an epeen contest with some truly facepalm-worthy boasts. Sans screenshots, of course. Edited October 19, 2014 by (PS4)PoeticProdigal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijinks_the_turtle Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I really think shotguns in general needs a buff, it really stinks that other weapon types can fill shotgun roles far too well. Sure, the Phage is a really awesome weapon. But unlike the rifle counterparts, it has clear cut disadvantages. I also agree that the mods really stink for shotties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperByte Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Balance and consistency don't generate that much revenue so I think they are so low on the priority list that they might as well not exist. Maybe DEvs will actually commit to balance near the official release but by then they will have one hell of a job to do because they don't set standards now. Edited October 21, 2014 by WhisperByte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)PoeticProdigal Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I really think shotguns in general needs a buff, it really stinks that other weapon types can fill shotgun roles far too well. Sure, the Phage is a really awesome weapon. But unlike the rifle counterparts, it has clear cut disadvantages. I also agree that the mods really stink for shotties. I'm still trying to comprehend how the Phage, with its continuous beams, is considered a shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperByte Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm still trying to comprehend how the Phage, with its continuous beams, is considered a shotgun. They way I see it, it operates closer to a shotgun than a rifle. The beams are spread just like the pellets of regular shotguns. I think of it as a variable spread shotgun with a hardcapped falloff range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neocyberman Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yeah, I do think weapons are unbalanced. DE should work to balance a lot of the older weapons upward or redesign some to have more interesting firing mechanics to at least make them enjoyable to use or have capabilities that make them worth keeping around other than for mastery points. The plasma sword is an electric damage melee weapon that boasts it has and increased crit chance. It really doesnt in comparison to everything around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijinks_the_turtle Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I really like the Tigris, it's just that its current rendition is seriously holding it back. That reload is horrendous! It should be faster like Vectis or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Boltor P doesn't need to be balanced, it just needs to be harder to get (aside from void farming) it should have higher mastery rank requirement. Some weapons need buffs while others need a drastic re-work. No amount of effort justifies something so powerful If you had to spend 50,000 hours using a single warframe and gain a billion kills to turn that frame into a super powerful version of itself that trivilized the game it wouldnt be worth the effort put in If there were a mastery rank 15 set of weapons for each type that trumped every other weapon of its class in near every way it wouldnt be justified even with having to near cap out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 No amount of effort justifies something so powerful If you had to spend 50,000 hours using a single warframe and gain a billion kills to turn that frame into a super powerful version of itself that trivilized the game it wouldnt be worth the effort put in If there were a mastery rank 15 set of weapons for each type that trumped every other weapon of its class in near every way it wouldnt be justified even with having to near cap out Do what you want to the Boltor Prime, but you better don't nerf my Latron Wraith / Prime or Dread or Paris Prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Do what you want to the Boltor Prime, but you better don't nerf my Latron Wraith / Prime or Dread or Paris Prime. Latron and dread have their balance Boltor does not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaskorpion Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Boltor P doesn't need to be balanced, it just needs to be harder to get (aside from void farming) it should have higher mastery rank requirement. Some weapons need buffs while others need a drastic re-work. Right now about everyone has boltor prime so... its not balanced weapon but neither is about any other weapon. Warframe has unique weapons unlike games like bordellands (bordellands has unique weapons but you can see same guns with differend stats) Lato is cool gun, but pointless. I would love to use all guns if they were balanced. Tiers dont help weapons. Cool guns get useless and that is waisted potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorgal_Sina Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Warframe can have superior weaponry all they want, but constant powercreep drives me nuts. The fact that some guns are straight out better makes your current gun feel useless. What's the point of your cool sniper rifle when something is outright better? DE made so many unique weapons, but can't freaking balance. So much wasted potential, just because players like big numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Latron and dread have their balance Boltor does not On paper DPS they are almost the same. The only balance is the "skill" equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxorium Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Sniper rifles not viable? lolwut, I'd love to see a Boltor P user trying to snipe someone from 50m+. *Proceeds on headshot spree with Snipetron Vandal* Edited October 22, 2014 by Roxorium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0verkill Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Tiers dont help weapons. Cool guns get useless and that is waisted potential Tend to agree with this. There seem to be so many nicely designed weapons in this game that get dismissed as 'mastery fodder'. Not only is this a waste, but it tends to destroy any illusion of choice regarding weapon loadouts. It's boring if everyone ends up using the same weapons. Edited October 22, 2014 by 0verkill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSpite Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 There is nothing wrong with the current weapons. The main problem is, and will remain, the combat situations in which they can be used in. If you ported the "OP" guns of WF into Borderlands, the bad guys would laugh at you, while suddenly, Snipers would be useful, and my Glaive, that I use EVERYWHERE here, would just get me murdered. Non stop. Including the fact that I can already murder myself with it, so I don't need the additional help. Small rooms. Straight LOS. Mobs that run directly at you. Of course we can murder with impunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 On paper DPS they are almost the same. The only balance is the "skill" equation. Youre gonna need alot of skill to clear 15 enemies ina bunch with the latron or dread as fast as the B prime and as consistently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now