For The People Who Use No Abilities

[HighBladez23]

Who the crud uses no abilities...?  Do you even Warframe?

LOLS^^

[Suthurn]

i find it hard to believe a person would not even use a single ability for utility purposes.

 

i suppose if you never did anything hard you could get away with it since a heavily upgraded weapon is enough to handle damage needs, but at some point a person would need utility to survive. i guess if you just expect everyone else to carry those abilities for you and never do anything hard solo... but yeah, thats kind of being a leech really. 

[Oriviagene]

yay 2 more slots :)

[SquirmyBurrito]

i find it hard to believe a person would not even use a single ability for utility purposes.

 

i suppose if you never did anything hard you could get away with it since a heavily upgraded weapon is enough to handle damage needs, but at some point a person would need utility to survive. i guess if you just expect everyone else to carry those abilities for you and never do anything hard solo... but yeah, thats kind of being a leech really. 

 

I can clear 90% of this games content (and 100% of the content on the regular star chart) without having to use any of my abilities. If content gets hard, I just whip out my Boltor Prime and blow through it. I routinely find myself doing top damage, getting top kills, and taking the least amount of damage, all while having the most revives. The first and only content I have ever found myself having to use an ability on was the shifting sands event and that was purely because I wanted to get all the points on my first run and my teammate wasn't helping. So I spent the entire mission alternating between spamming radial disarm for the brief stun, and then killing them with my brakk. Had I been willing to count that as a loss and come back more prepared, I wouldn't have had to use my abilities. 

 

I feel as though I should also point out that I can do all that regardless of whether or not I'm solo'ing or in a PUG. No, it isn't because I'm super amazing. It is because 90% of this game's content isn't difficult. And that which is difficult only gets difficult if you wait around for a while (long defense and survivals). 

 

You need your abilities about as much as you need a boltor prime to clear the 'star chart'. Meaning you don't need them. Having them is nice I guess, but hardly a requirement. And for the way I like to play, having to deal with them is a bother. I'd rather focus on my gun and 'sword' play rather than monitoring countdowns and energy expenditure. 

 

This was answered under the assumption that the frame you're using without abilities is a Loki. If you were to use a Valkyr or Rhino Prime it would be a piece of cake.

[Temfist]

I disagree. I am of the opinion that the frame's appearance is the biggest part of its identity. Take away its powers and an Saryn is still a Saryn. Giving Rhino Loki's abilities doesn't suddenly turn Rhino into Loki. In my 1k+ playtime I've seen numerous examples of players only using one ability (no idea if their build had more than one slotted for obvious reasons). I almost exclusively play PUGs. There is no available data to indicate which group if the biggest nor is there anyway of knowing (currently) how big each group is. During my time on the forums I have seen massive threads devoted to claiming one frame or another only had one useful ability. Those threads will often have arguments between two groups who hold polar opposite opinions. I know because I often engage in them.

If you have no evidence to back your guess I will continue to ignore it.

 

if your talking about silhouette and character design defining a character then yes, but what diversifies gameplay is the warframe's powers. That doesn't go as far to say that warframe's powers make them so fundamentally different that they in no way resemble each other, but it does give each warframe specific strengths and weaknesses, giving incentive to have more then one in your arsenal.

 

If you totally strip them of all their powers, they are no different then reskins of the same playable character, clones offering nothing new to the game other then an aesthetic breath of fresh air. I prefer them playing differently, but I also wish there was even more stuff on warframes (static buffs and alternate ways they interact with things) to further diversify the frames. If only their powers interacted with the environment more, then it'd provide a distinct difference in game feel imo. Some of the frames have utility moves, but they are usually just mobility based jumps. I'd prefer them to alter parts of the tileset, like if Ember accelerant could restore shields debuffed by a cold environment for a time, or if Frost could freeze a body of water or barricade doors and other objects using "Freeze", Vaubans "Vortex" could also pull explosives and other level hazards in and Tesla could gain a "shoot to detonate" feature as well, or Volt could shock the water, etc etc.

 

there really needs to be more of that. Mirage's ability "Sleight of Hand" is cool, but it's also really hard to control/predict because it applies to set items in an AoE and only provides a small effect for the most part.

[Hypernaut1]

I can clear 90% of this games content (and 100% of the content on the regular star chart) without having to use any of my abilities. If content gets hard, I just whip out my Boltor Prime and blow through it. I routinely find myself doing top damage, getting top kills, and taking the least amount of damage, all while having the most revives. The first and only content I have ever found myself having to use an ability on was the shifting sands event and that was purely because I wanted to get all the points on my first run and my teammate wasn't helping. So I spent the entire mission alternating between spamming radial disarm for the brief stun, and then killing them with my brakk. Had I been willing to count that as a loss and come back more prepared, I wouldn't have had to use my abilities. 

 

I feel as though I should also point out that I can do all that regardless of whether or not I'm solo'ing or in a PUG. No, it isn't because I'm super amazing. It is because 90% of this game's content isn't difficult. And that which is difficult only gets difficult if you wait around for a while (long defense and survivals). 

 

You need your abilities about as much as you need a boltor prime to clear the 'star chart'. Meaning you don't need them. Having them is nice I guess, but hardly a requirement. And for the way I like to play, having to deal with them is a bother. I'd rather focus on my gun and 'sword' play rather than monitoring countdowns and energy expenditure. 

 

This was answered under the assumption that the frame you're using without abilities is a Loki. If you were to use a Valkyr or Rhino Prime it would be a piece of cake.

yay for you. you are great at this game. Im sure you'll be just as good after the change,

[RespectTheInternet]

It seems like a Lot of people are curious about Majority vs Minority to justify greater - lesser good arguments.

 

Just saying, you could look at the first page of this thread and see who has more upvotes. Or if you wanted to be Really specific about it, go to the Developer Workshop.

[Nlim]

You shouldn't use it because that argument is just you creating a slippery slope in order to attempt to make my request seem more outlandish than it is. You claim it creates a balance issue but I see no proof to substantiate that claim. I have already considered and discussed the potential increase in power ten can create. Most people agree that it is an increase in power, whether or not said increase is enough to justify the unnecessary negative that the alternate creates is debatable. 

[...]

Oh dear, almost this entire post...

It is debatable therefor I am right? This is just an opinion so why not go why my opinion? The case isn´t clear cut so I´ll just put my version out their like it has more validity?

I know that this way of describing it won´t help the discussion but almost evry argument boils down to of hiding behind slight ambeguity therefor making your argument valid.

Take your point about optimum for example, the claim of versatility vs power is absurd. For the majority of cases a super Jump/psychic bolts/Null star is not worth a mod slot. You can only make this statement to begin with because you can´t directly compare abilities and mods but it is akin to saying a champion in a moba game can never be underpowerd as long as their isn´t an other champion with the exact same abilities. Just because things can´t be compared directly doesn´t mean that their won´t be builds which operate superior for most situations (this holds also true in PvE games).

Same goes with the frame identity thing. Just because you can disagree doesn´t mean it holds true in general - please try to explain how a loki with a rhino skill set would be still considerd the trickster/stealth frame or a saryn with embers skills the poison frame...

 

Your last paragraph is something different but you are not really challenging my claim. You say I am wrong than repeat the same thing I was criticising you in the first place for. You don´t want to use abilities therefor the change has no positives - you EXACTLY state this for your Valkyr. You don´t want to play that way therefor their are no positives or you don´t want to use the abilities because your build was geared toward a specific one. I still do not see your point here - you do not want to adept therefor the change is bad.

And than you concluded this entire thing by calling two mod slots only a marginal increase in power... This is having your cake and eating it too. First you keep on complaing how losing two slots is such a big issue for you but in the same instance turn around and want to claim that two slots more are not a big deal. Sure your build which is geared toward NOT using abilities won´t get much increase in power but this won´t mean anyone else won´t abuse this new potential to its fullest espescially considering how we will get new ability specifc mods.

And I don´t even know where you are going with the utility/support slot suggestions, I have a feeling this is simply a category of mods you would like to run but have a hard time justifying since they get outperformed by other mods for most purposes - well welcome to the world of people who want to use all abilities, maybe DE will find a way to please you as well but I doubt a seperate mod category would be it - this sounds quite clunky and depending on what kind of mods fall into this category you could run straight back into power creep issues.

And since you missed it: Yes, we do not know if 10 mod slots would cause major issues but DE made the call and they have the data and experience to back it up. We have at best flimsy conjecture, so I would trust them on it unless proven otherwise.

[gaurdianaq]

I can clear 90% of this games content (and 100% of the content on the regular star chart) without having to use any of my abilities. If content gets hard, I just whip out my Boltor Prime and blow through it. I routinely find myself doing top damage, getting top kills, and taking the least amount of damage, all while having the most revives. The first and only content I have ever found myself having to use an ability on was the shifting sands event and that was purely because I wanted to get all the points on my first run and my teammate wasn't helping. So I spent the entire mission alternating between spamming radial disarm for the brief stun, and then killing them with my brakk. Had I been willing to count that as a loss and come back more prepared, I wouldn't have had to use my abilities. 

 

I feel as though I should also point out that I can do all that regardless of whether or not I'm solo'ing or in a PUG. No, it isn't because I'm super amazing. It is because 90% of this game's content isn't difficult. And that which is difficult only gets difficult if you wait around for a while (long defense and survivals). 

 

You need your abilities about as much as you need a boltor prime to clear the 'star chart'. Meaning you don't need them. Having them is nice I guess, but hardly a requirement. And for the way I like to play, having to deal with them is a bother. I'd rather focus on my gun and 'sword' play rather than monitoring countdowns and energy expenditure. 

 

This was answered under the assumption that the frame you're using without abilities is a Loki. If you were to use a Valkyr or Rhino Prime it would be a piece of cake.

What about defense missions, I'd imagine those would be kind of difficult without abilities, mainly some kind of crowd control or defensive abilities to help protect the pod. Especially when playing solo.

[ARavenousPanda]

honest;y you are all forgetting one HUGE important fact here, ABILITIES NO LONGER DROP. Woo!

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I like how people thought forum upvotes tell the entire community's take on this. Just saying.

 

edit: Don't get me wrong here. I am for using at least some abilities, very against using no abilities. Upvotes don't matter though, for the comments were just funny imo

Edited October 21, 2014 by GaiaNyix

[Alphafox]

I like how people thought forum upvotes tell the entire community's take on this. Just saying.

Well, that's how statistics work. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Alphafox

[Chub_N_Tuck]

Well, that's how statistics work. 

We don't have the 'statistics' on how much of the entire player base is on forums discussing on this specific thread. No?

 

too small of a sample imo

Edited October 21, 2014 by GaiaNyix

[ranks21]

this is gonna be a shtty change and we the players who actually play the game knows it.  we didn't want to use those abilities in the first place  and found better alternatives for the slots.

 

 you may be a world class chef  but what you cook I may not like or eat why force the issue.

 

 you barely can keep up in this game  with any frame or gun when the enemy level is past 45 or if you start a survival/defense/ excavation on a ice tileset and the starting levels of enemies is 35-40. those two slots surely  are handy in those levels to make a frame viable. so go ahead speak your mind on the forums and play on those low level maps for 5-15 mins and say the game is easy, we all know you haven't faced any real high level eximus leaders with your all skills attatched past the 30 mins mark.

 

 for those of us who likes to play and push the frames to their boundaries, this upcoming nerfing will be a serious factor in if we should play  or find something else that's worth our time and effort/ investment.

[vaugahn]

this is gonna be a shtty change and we the players who actually play the game knows it.  we didn't want to use those abilities in the first place  and found better alternatives for the slots.

 

made me lol

 

Don't pretend like you're speaking for everyone. It's cool if you want to quit because they took away your cheese build, but that's your opinion. Presuming to speak for a group almost never goes as planned.

[gaurdianaq]

this is gonna be a shtty change and we the players who actually play the game knows it.  we didn't want to use those abilities in the first place  and found better alternatives for the slots.

 

 you may be a world class chef  but what you cook I may not like or eat why force the issue.

 

 you barely can keep up in this game  with any frame or gun when the enemy level is past 45 or if you start a survival/defense/ excavation on a ice tileset and the starting levels of enemies is 35-40. those two slots surely  are handy in those levels to make a frame viable. so go ahead speak your mind on the forums and play on those low level maps for 5-15 mins and say the game is easy, we all know you haven't faced any real high level eximus leaders with your all skills attatched past the 30 mins mark.

 

 for those of us who likes to play and push the frames to their boundaries, this upcoming nerfing will be a serious factor in if we should play  or find something else that's worth our time and effort/ investment.

I don't know what frames you're using, but you make it sound like abilities become useless after a certain point, while that's true for some abilities, there are plenty abilities that are good no matter what level you are. Sure you're not going to be murdering anyone at lvl 40 with rhino stomp, but the CC it gives is always worth it. Utility never stops being useful, those 2 extra mods you have will only push your warframe so far before abilities start becoming useful.

[VampirePirate]

Well, for me, I decided to remove all of my ability cards to make room for durability- therefore removing your whole point on "being overwhelmed and complaining". And as I previously stated, I don't like Frost's abilities, so I altered him to fit my playstyle- a bullet sponge.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why you make your points as if your opinion is better than mine? I mean, sure- I'm in the minority, but what's to say my voice is not as loud as yours?

 

This thread was supposed to be for the people who enjoyed playing with their favourite 'frame without the mods they don't enjoy, and how the upcoming change would effect them negatively.

 

I'm sorry for rustling your jimmies, but please don't try to change how people are.

This actually made me chuckle a bit.  Thanks.  But no, I'm not trying to change anyone.  Everyone has a point of view, including me.  If that's hard to understand then... oh well.  I guess you will learn one day.  My point is that I enjoy warframes without some of their abilities, but it is wiser to have something available for when you actually need to use them.  This new change to the slots will allow that.  The only side effect is that you lose two slots.  All i'm saying is try it out first and then complain if it still is not satisfactory.  I'm not against how you use your warframe, and I am not trying to change you.  So no, you did not "rustle my jimmies".

 

It actually sounds like I rustled yours.  I'm just expressing a point is all.

Edited October 21, 2014 by VampirePirate

[VampirePirate]

It's not absurd. It's a choice. That you choose to deny the viability of these builds, and instead ridicule them, only speaks ill about you because you're only expressing your derision towards our own choice. I have made my own one-ability-only builds and I know just how viable they are.

 

And no, I am not "one of those people", because I have played through almost the entire game Solo, and only then I started playing in teams, successfully; I know how to carry my own weight with any frame, I know how to carry an entire cell if need be, and I never complain if I get downed because it's my own mistake. Not a single time have I assumed that it's the responsibility of anyone to revive me, because through most of my time playing this game, dead meant dead. And this is one of the reasons why I make single-ability builds, to make space for survivability mods in case the going gets tough.

 

As for the OP, he has already spoken for himself.

 

And there is no reason at all why we shouldn't discuss the upcoming changes. We are intelligent enough to know how they will affect us in the form that was shown in the Livestream, and it's only beneficial for everyone to have an open argument about it. When the update hits, we will see how the changes come, how they affect us, and if need be we will complain again.

Okay, well that's more of a valid point that I can respect.  I'm glad you are not "one of those people".  At least you don't take opposing opinions personally, unlike the OP.  I have even made single ability builds.  However, you are speaking of a one-ability build.  I was talking about builds that have no abilities at all, like what the title of this thread implies.  "For those who use no abilities".  That was the absurdity I spoke of.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

this is gonna be a shtty change and we the players who actually play the game knows it.  we didn't want to use those abilities in the first place  and found better alternatives for the slots.

 

 you may be a world class chef  but what you cook I may not like or eat why force the issue.

 

 you barely can keep up in this game  with any frame or gun when the enemy level is past 45 or if you start a survival/defense/ excavation on a ice tileset and the starting levels of enemies is 35-40. those two slots surely  are handy in those levels to make a frame viable. so go ahead speak your mind on the forums and play on those low level maps for 5-15 mins and say the game is easy, we all know you haven't faced any real high level eximus leaders with your all skills attatched past the 30 mins mark.

 

 for those of us who likes to play and push the frames to their boundaries, this upcoming nerfing will be a serious factor in if we should play  or find something else that's worth our time and effort/ investment.

Whoa.. the elitist mindset is unreal here.

 

I couldn't handle reading your arrogance. For those who actually play the game it WILL be a shtty cahnge?

 

Hold it there friend, the change did not actually ship yet and you're assessing the change already to the extreme. Calm it down.

 

It will be an awesome change for new players who don't know how mod works at first, and also for veteran players. Just like how the previous system worked, players have to adjust to it. Whether it is gonna be good or bad change for individuals, you decide AFTER the change is done.

 

It's not end of the world after this change is done. If it's THAT shtty as you think it will be, there WILL be player feedbacks to change it. This is how the game's been growing, if you didn't realize yet.

[VampirePirate]

Edit: This is a reply to SquirlyBurrito.  The quote thing got messed up somehow.  (Sorry if I misspelled the name)

 

 

1) There is nothing absurd about not using abilities nor does your perceived absurdity invalidate the arguments given.

 

That's just a conflict of opinion.  I'm stating my opinion and you are stating yours.

 

2) We can play however we like within the constraints we have been given, and zero abilities was one way that I often chose to play.

 

Okay.  Yes.  Never said you could not play however you like.  I expressed an opinion and gave some valid points.

 

3) What need is there for CC in most of the game when I can wipe out that crowd with a spray from my boltor prime? And not every frame even has CC so that argument doesn't even make any sense.

 

I never said all waframes have CC.  I used that as an example, and that was plain to see if you actually read my post.  Some people in this community would cut you down for even making such a reference to Boltor Prime, but I'm not.  I use it myself sometimes.  What "doesn't make sense" in this argument, is you implying things I never said.

 

4) You're arguing based on a premise that you're assuming to be correct.

 

So are you.  So what?  Opinions.  Everyone has them and everyone thinks his or her opinion is the correct one.

 

5) Where was proof provided that shows that OP or any of us are the people who are going down and complaining abut not getting revived?

 

I never said that.  No need for proof of that.  I'm sure the OP can speak for himself.

 

6) News flash, my ability-less Valkyr is usually the one doing all the reviving.

 

Yes, she is able to do that.  I'm not surprised.  My Valkyr is the same way, always reviving people -- especially the people I mentioned in my example of no-ability warframes.  So what?

 

7) The removal of ability mods isn't what people are complaining about here. It is the removal of slots that leads to many of our builds no longer being possible.

 

I know that, and if you actually read my posts, you would see that the removal of mod slots is what I spoke of.  That was when I replied to the OP, not you.

 

8) No, if we wait until it is already done the chances of it getting changed plummet drastically. Eventually people just give up because we all know how slow DE can be to address concerns of the community. It is our best hope to get DE to trash the removal of slots now, before it goes live.

 

The truth is, it is already applied to the game.  Changes are already made.  You may have a chance to change DE's mind about these changes, you may succeed, but I strongly doubt it.  At least not at this point.  Maybe after everyone tries it out first, when there is more reason to complain about it.  I was under the impression the DE strongly wants to put this in the game, at least to see how it works out.  Ultimately, it is their decision on what to do with the game because it is their franchise, not yours.  I may not even like the changes myself, but I can't say unless I play the game with the changes first.  You all have a right to discuss this and complain as you wish, but I also have a right to express some points too.

 

9) There is nothing absurd about not using abilities nor does your perceived absurdity invalidate the arguments given.

 

The title of this thread states: For The People Who Use No Abilities

 

I spoke with that in mind to a couple of people that said they are using one-ability builds.  They were not talking about "using no abilities".  I spoke against using no abilities at all, but it seems this thread is more about using only one ability and the removal of two slots.  So I am now in question of why there are even arguments in the first place.  Sorry if I misunderstood what this thread was actually about, because the title and the diagram the OP provided is quite misleading.

Edited October 21, 2014 by VampirePirate

[ranks21]

 well let me break it down for you, lets use Vauban in this case in the new suggested setup. youre down to your last bullets in a hoarde of level 60 enemies and you have enough energy to cast a vortex to save you, but in your haste and the lack of that one slot where in your older 1-2 abilities setup you had a reflex guard  equilibrium or any other helpful mods. you press the wrong button and out came bounce. the same ability you found useless in those situations now is forced upon you and you've lost the defensive ability in the process. how usefull is it then when you've used up the last bullets and wasted the remaining energy on an ability that is useless in the current situation?

[vaugahn]

 well let me break it down for you, lets use Vauban in this case in the new suggested setup. youre down to your last bullets in a hoarde of level 60 enemies and you have enough energy to cast a vortex to save you, but in your haste and the lack of that one slot where in your older 1-2 abilities setup you had a reflex guard  equilibrium or any other helpful mods. you press the wrong button and out came bounce. the same ability you found useless in those situations now is forced upon you and you've lost the defensive ability in the process. how usefull is it then when you've used up the last bullets and wasted the remaining energy on an ability that is useless in the current situation?

 

Wait, that's your justification? I need lots of slots in case I press the wrong button?

 

Okay, let's look at this situation logically. You're playing Vauban, in a horde of high level enemies (why are you in the horde?). You have no bullets left in your gun. You want to cast a vortex, but you cast bounce on accident. 

 

Do you need more mods to save you? Well, not really. The most sensible thing to do would be to run away, and not try and tank a horde of enemies with RG. You could also cast Bastille, as you have that equipped now as well. Or you could use your melee or secondary, which I assume you brought with you on this high level run. Or you could just be careful when you press 4 and not press 2 on accident, that works too.

 

As "a player who actually plays the game", surely you should know that. Just making up imaginary situations to try and justify yourself isn't usually a very solid position. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by vaugahn

[Cat_Jam]

 

Let us cry in this thread, for our builds with no abilities are to be thrown out of the window.

 

Post your 'frame and it's purpose with a RIP.

 

RIP Frost P, you will forever be loved as my one and only bullet sponge :'(

 

Elaborate, please.

[Alphafox]

Let's agree that we disagree.

The change will be made anyways.

[SilverBones]

Let's agree that we disagree.

The change will be made anyways.

 

^ This is about as true as it's going to get. Discussion is healthy. Pushing, shoving and insulting others for having a differing opinion is not. At this point, balances and changes will be made after the fact - it is too late in the game to back out such a drastic change, I am certain.