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Removed Slots For Prime Warframes On U15


[DE]Azambuja
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The points are illogical because people are illogical. People will demand that you switch to a prime frame even if the frame your using doesn't have a prime form. Just like in so many other games when trying to get a party for a dungeon most the time they want you to have gear from that dungeon or a better one already.

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You are saying that when U15 hits, if this change went through, everyone would stop using the frames I listed. Everyone else can see why this is an insane way of thinking.

You also just told me to not think rationally, didn't think this topic was tumblr feminism.

Out of all the mods of all the forums I've been on, you are the most hilarious.

 

 If the change was made Primes would instantly be the superior frames in the game. There would be no contest. Using Frames outside of Primes would weaken you in the eyes of the meta. You'd have less build potential all around. Over time the Meta would work it's magic and the irrational standards I brought up would surface.

 

 Also, I didn't tell you to think irrationally. If anything I acknowledged that I find the entire meta situation, along with the tendency for the community to insist players all play to certain gear standards for certain content, is irrational. It's about what people insist upon. What they want. They'll always  to ask or demand you have the best gear and play the best you could because that makes things easier on the squad. It's common in games. Don't try to dodge my point by clinging to the fact that I mentioned rationality.

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The points are illogical because people are illogical. People will demand that you switch to a prime frame even if the frame your using doesn't have a prime form. Just like in so many other games when trying to get a party for a dungeon most the time they want you to have gear from that dungeon or a better one already.

A few frames without prime frames currently are too good to pass up in certain game modes.

Even though it's toxic, in the case of Nekros, no other frame can reroll loot.

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No. Prime Warframes should be just a aesthetical update, as it was in the first times. It sucks to be forced to use a Prime Warframe because it's better then the regular one.

Its like getting a potato in alot of ways. Anyone can get one if they work for it through trades and farming and they make any frame more powerful than a frame without one. So I am for getting this for primes in U15
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 If the change was made Primes would instantly be the superior frames in the game. There would be no contest. Using Frames outside of Primes would weaken you in the eyes of the meta. You'd have less build potential all around. Over time the Meta would work it's magic and the irrational standards I brought up would surface.

 

 Also, I didn't tell you to think irrationally. If anything I acknowledged that I find the entire meta situation, along with the tendency for the community to insist players all play to certain gear standards for certain content, is irrational. It's about what people insist upon. What they want. They'll always  to ask or demand you have the best gear and play the best you could because that makes things easier on the squad. It's common in games. Don't try to dodge my point by clinging to the fact that I mentioned rationality.

List a precise example where the listed frames would be declined over Mag Prime, Frost Prime, Nyx Prime, Ember Prime, or Rhino Prime in a 4 man squad.

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List a precise example where the listed frames would be declined over Mag Prime, Frost Prime, Nyx Prime, Ember Prime, or Rhino Prime in a 4 man squad.

 

 -Mag

 -Frost

 -Nyx

 -Ember

 -Rhino

 

 It's that simple. You don't get to be picky about who or what gets shafted. Any frame being rendered obsolete is a problem.

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 -Mag

 -Frost

 -Nyx

 -Ember

 -Rhino

 

 It's that simple. You don't get to be picky about who or what gets shafted. Any frame being rendered obsolete is a problem.

They are the same frames with the same powers. If you can't answer the question then just say so.

And once again, weapons are being rendered obsolete each time a prime variant is released.

If you're against weapons being rendered obsolete as well, then this is an entirely different argument for another thread regarding Primes as a whole.

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Terrible idea.

 

You completely forgot about Warframes without Prime versions and Excalibur Prime (an exclusive Warframe). Also, the game is filled with elitism as it is and you haven't considered any of the repercussions.

 

A few examples of what I mean:

A) People using Normal Warframes are viewed negatively/considered bad. This directly affects the recruiting process for Void missions.

B) Non-Primed Warframes (Ex. Mirage, Volt, Trinity, etc) are valued less for high level missions.

C) Prime Warframes using 0-1 abilities gain 2-1 slots. This worsens the state of the game balance.

 

The added "Power" is unneeded. The added differentiation between Prime and Normal Warframes is unneeded. The fairness of such an idea with regards to the different Warframes is completely out of whack. There's absolutely no way I would consider this a good idea.

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They are the same frames with the same powers. If you can't answer the question then just say so.

And once again, weapons are being rendered obsolete each time a prime variant is released.

If you're against weapons being rendered obsolete as well, then this is an entirely different argument for another thread regarding Primes as a whole.

2 more slots give you more mod balancing. You can have more range or duration on Loki, or any other frame, with less energy cost. I find that pretty much power creep.

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If the change was made Primes would instantly be the superior frames in the game. There would be no contest. Using Frames outside of Primes would weaken you in the eyes of the meta. You'd have less build potential all around. Over time the Meta would work it's magic and the irrational standards I brought up would surface.

 

 Also, I didn't tell you to think irrationally. If anything I acknowledged that I find the entire meta situation, along with the tendency for the community to insist players all play to certain gear standards for certain content, is irrational. It's about what people insist upon. What they want. They'll always  to ask or demand you have the best gear and play the best you could because that makes things easier on the squad. It's common in games. Don't try to dodge my point by clinging to the fact that I mentioned rationality.

Ah but potatoed frames are instantly more powerful to their non potatoed counterparts are they not? The same logic could be applied to this and would work because of 1 reason.

These days its almost expected to have a potatoed, less so than like a year or two ago when they were less abundant. The same will be for the primes eventually, so what im saying is at first people will ask specifically for primes FOR AWHILE. But eventually everyone wont care as long as you hold your weight as prime or not.

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2 more slots give you more mod balancing. You can have more range or duration on Loki, or any other frame, with less energy cost. I find that pretty much power creep.

You would be right about it being power creep, a problem that lies in more aspects of the game than just here, however that doesn't mean squads will turn into only 4 Lokis running around. If this change went through, there would still be Vauban's being accepted just fine in ODD missions, Novas in T4 survivals and defenses, and Nekros for his problematic desecrate.

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They are the same frames with the same powers. If you can't answer the question then just say so.

And once again, weapons are being rendered obsolete each time a prime variant is released.

If you're against weapons being rendered obsolete as well, then this is an entirely different argument for another thread regarding Primes as a whole.

And here we go, straight to relying on dodging having to defend your argument by pretending mine is weak. Do you actually contribute? No. Because you don't have an argument that stands up very well on it's own.

Of course I'm against weapons being obsolete. Please take a moment to review my posts in this thread, you'll notice I reference the DPScannon meta in a negative light. Balance in general in Warframe is poor right now for a variety of reasons. That is exactly why this thread's OP is a poor idea. It worsens and already poor trend further. You can't fix a cracked window with a blow from a baseball bat.

So now that we've passed your strawman, I'll hold your hand and lead you through the reason what you just said is a load of crap.

Yes, they're the same Frames. But now they have two less mod slots. Their builds are, in comparison, far less open. They have to be pickier with mods. Ultimately they are inferior frames now. No one in their right mind would take the normal version of a Frame into difficult content if the Prime, with it's superior potential, could be brought instead. Primes have extra space to be even more survivable or even more damaging. Slots matter. They're game changing.

Any single frame being completely useless is an issue. More so than a weapon, as Warframes represent the part of the game that represents the character we play. A weapon is just a single weapon in the arsenal. It is smaller in scope and importance and much easier to obtain or replace.

You don't get to just move the goalposts and say "but Nekros and Mirage and these other few would probably be fine" and that closes the whole case. It doesn't. They're a small chunk of Frames and content in comparison to the risk of Primes completely eclipsing the originals as the game grows and more primes exist. So what if you listed the handful that'd still be useful? Just as many, if not more, suffer for the change. That alone makes it an unacceptable shift in the already heavily tilted balance.

 

 

Ah but potatoed frames are instantly more powerful to their non potatoed counterparts are they not? The same logic could be applied to this and would work because of 1 reason.

These days its almost expected to have a potatoed, less so than like a year or two ago when they were less abundant. The same will be for the primes eventually, so what im saying is at first people will ask specifically for primes FOR AWHILE. But eventually everyone wont care as long as you hold your weight as prime or not.

This argument is extremely poor. The effect of using a Potato on a Warframe is still slave to your number of slots. There is still a cap on your potential and all Frames share a single cap.

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And here we go, straight to relying on dodging having to defend your argument by pretending mine is weak. Do you actually contribute? No. Because you don't have an argument that stands up very well on it's own.

Of course I'm against weapons being obsolete. Please take a moment to review my posts in this thread, you'll notice I reference the DPScannon meta in a negative light. Balance in general in Warframe is poor right now for a variety of reasons. That is exactly why this thread's OP is a poor idea. It worsens and already poor trend further. You can't fix a cracked window with a blow from a baseball bat.

So now that we've passed your strawman, I'll hold your hand and lead you through the reason what you just said is a load of crap.

Yes, they're the same Frames. But now they have two less mod slots. Their builds are, in comparison, far less open. They have to be pickier with mods. Ultimately they are inferior frames now. No one in their right mind would take the normal version of a Frame into difficult content if the Prime, which it's superior potential, could be brought instead. Primes have extra space to be even more survivable or even more damaging. Slots matter. They're game changing.

Any single frame being completely useless is an issue. More so than a weapon, as Warframes represent the part of the game that represents the character we play. A weapon is just a single weapon in the arsenal. It is smaller in scope and importance and much easier to obtain or replace.

You don't get to just move the goalposts and say "but Nekros and Mirage and these other few would probably be fine" and that closes the whole case. It doesn't. They're a small chunk of Frames and content in comparison to the risk of Primes completely eclipsing the originals as the game grows and more primes exist. So what if you listed the handful that'd still be useful? Just as many, if not more, suffer for the change. That alone makes it an unacceptable shift in the already heavily tilted balance.

 

 

This argument is extremely poor. The effect of using a Potato on a Warframe is still slave to your number of slots. There is still a cap on your potential and all Frames share a single cap.

 

You're speaking as if no one can obtain a Prime Frame. All you are saying is Prime Frames being better is bad because it's bad.

Balance in Warframe is definitely in disarray at the moment, if it wasn't though you would still be against OP's idea however, which I could care less about, my personal stance is just for Primes to be better in some noticeable way from their originals. Balancing such as using the originals to make primes can be discussed when or if whatever buff happens.

Even though you want there to be a strawman so you can use a fancy phrase, there isn't one going on here. Sorry. Primes eclipsing their originals is just fine, that's why they're harder to obtain.

If you'd like to discuss Prime weapons and frames only being different aesthetically then I'll be glad to post in your thread.

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 All that I said up there and you melt it down to something I didn't say. I hate to break it to you, but that is exactly what a strawman argument is all about.

Maybe one day you will be able to see answers as something other than strawmen.

Good job quoting one sentence though.

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Well, personally, I hate the idea of thrm taking away mod slots... Can someone point me to the source?

And second: Too big of a advantage

 

 Pretty sure they talked about it on the last stream, man. If you haven't caught that you can go check it out on their PlayWarframe youtube channel.

Maybe one day you will be able to see answers as something other than strawmen.

Good job quoting one sentence though.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

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You're speaking as if no one can obtain a Prime Frame. All you are saying is Prime Frames being better is bad because it's bad.

Balance in Warframe is definitely in disarray at the moment, if it wasn't though you would still be against OP's idea however, which I could care less about, my personal stance is just for Primes to be better in some noticeable way from their originals. Balancing such as using the originals to make primes can be discussed when or if whatever buff happens.

Even though you want there to be a strawman so you can use a fancy phrase, there isn't one going on here. Sorry. Primes eclipsing their originals is just fine, that's why they're harder to obtain.

If you'd like to discuss Prime weapons and frames only being different aesthetically then I'll be glad to post in your thread.

I agree with you man, but he aint gonna take you seriously if you keep trying to cleverly insult him. Just a thought to get through to him
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Maybe one day you will be able to see answers as something other than strawmen.

Good job quoting one sentence though.

I don't know why you're so obsessed with headbutting the same guy. lol

 

Read my first post here. I wrote it after reading the OP only and I still stand by it. Edit: Post #84

Edited by MaverickZero
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I agree with you man, but he aint gonna take you seriously if you keep trying to cleverly insult him. Just a thought to get through to him

This mod in particular has a history of speaking like he is above others, the responses are justified.

 

I don't know why you're so obsessed with headbutting the same guy. lol

 

Read my first post here. I wrote it after reading the OP only and I still stand by it.

If you reply to me, I will reply in kind.

 

 Pretty sure they talked about it on the last stream, man. If you haven't caught that you can go check it out on their PlayWarframe youtube channel.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

Seems more like what you're doing here.

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You're speaking as if no one can obtain a Prime Frame. All you are saying is Prime Frames being better is bad because it's bad.

The problem is that void recruitment will become "Prime frame or the boot". Sure you could still get a prime frame even if you do not have one, but no one would let you into their void runs because you do not have a prime frame.

 

Either you have a prime frame before the change is implemented while people will still accept you for their void runs or you are SoL and made to go somewhere else cause you will be a liability on the team with your fewer mod slots.

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