Why U15's Proposed Forma Replacement Is Disrespectful

[Clovis15]

LATER ADDED DISCLAIMER:

 

I love the Warframe staff, and find this game to be the most fairly made Free-to-Play game ever designed. I actually do enjoy playing the game, even if I hate the early releveling process. I don't care when weapons that I own - such as the Ignis or Ogris - get nerfed, or when better versions of those weapons come out (such as the Lex Prime). I didn't care when the Brakk - that I earned during the Gradivus Dilemma - became available to the public at large, or previously exclusive event mods either. I do care about having time spent placing polarities getting rolled back.

 

I won't - however - care when the grand resetting happens, except that this wasn't that.

 

If anything, this post was more aimed at those people whom think I deserve to lose my time - "because only entitled people believe they deserve to keep their time spent" - rather than me actually yelling at the devs themselves. Yes, I should have chosen a better name than the one that some people drove me to think of with their constant claims that I was being "entitled". Unfortunately, I am no longer able to fix that. Hindsight is 20/20, especially when you're calmer.

 

Humorously - if it wasn't for the part about the polarity reset - I'd probably have been dancing in the streets right now, as this is otherwise one of the greatest ideas that the game's Devs have ever had.

 

ORIGINAL POST BEGINS HERE:

 

In Response to PEOPLE'S COMMENTS to the most recent Livestream.

 

I know a bunch of people are claiming that we should be so glad that you're not just taking away the resources used to get that polarity entirely, and then suggesting you should really just punish us - by giving us no Formas back at all - for being minmaxers in the past. However, I am going to explain now why giving us those Formas back - and telling us to relevel the frame all over again in order to gain those vital polarities back (such as the added D's on my Vauban) - is going to be a catastrophe.

 

I know many people who either don't get what I'm saying either because they don't use Vaubans or Lokis - or have reached such a transcended level, and also probably only play sturdier frames, that they no longer understand what the game is like for others - but using Formas are the absolutely most wretched vile experience to be found within Warframe, and I often end up asking myself what I haven't quit playing the game yet each and every time I use one. I mean... what couldn't possibly be more fun than spending 6 full relevelling processes with a gun before you can actually do decent damage with it (Amprex), afterwards to have to immediately put it forever away in your locker and begin working on the next gun because you won't get more affinity otherwise?

 

And if the guns are bad, then the Warframes are worse. Loki and Vauban have the consistency of wet-tissue paper. Levelling them is an experience in true frustration, where random breezes passing through will often spell your demise. Now do that Forma process three whole times, and remember that the bulk of Warframe leveling comes from using your abilities. Except that your abilities will probably be some of the last cards to go on, as you're way too fragile to do anything but put those very expensive defense cards on first. Now - after much sanity, sweat, and platinum spent - you've finally got three Defense polarities on your Vauban, all placed on top of ability slots because the only move you actually liked enough to actually keep was Bastille. It was excruciating, it was agonizing, but it's finally done and the Warframe is finally resilient enough to be played in places such as T4 (because you're not collecting new shiny Prime gear otherwise).

 

I am willing to accept your new build rules that diminish someone's ability to minimax their build power - I'm even thinking about which of my nine non ability cards I plan to be cutting - but what I am not willing to accept is you stripping off those D polarities, and giving me the Forma back afterwards. This is an outrage, other people are getting to keep the polarities that they added, but I'm losing them because I forma'd the wrong slots. So while people might claim this is like Mod 2.0, it isn't like that at all because Mod 2.0 was an across the board rule change for all. This instead is a stripping of time from some players, whereas others get off scot free. These unpenalized people - whom have long been lobbying against single ability builds - have since come to the forums and begun begging that we should lose our spent time entirely, all because getting the changes they wanted to mod building wasn't enough unless they get a Conan style village burning afterwards.

 

If you reset all of my time and sanity spent so far, I really have no reason to stay anymore as you invalidated all of my work - work that was grossly unfun - and I have no motivation to do it again... especially since I now know you just rust roll it back again afterwards. While some people like me - whom have forma'd over many ability slots - might stay, they won't be buying formas anymore. Why should they? What's the point of playing through worthless gun syndrome - or worthless Warframe syndrome - for days, or sometimes even weeks, just to perfect a multi-polarity build that might be reset later... all while other people get to keep everything, just because a precedent of selective rollbacks has now been started. You're selectively destroying people's time here and now, and this means that you're also potentially willing to do it again. Thus no one in their right minds could ever trust a Forma enough to use them anymore, especially since they are the bane of fun in Warframe.

 

My friends and I don't buy guns, and we don't buy Warframes, we tend to grind for all of that. You know what we do buy? Formas, by the metric ton buttload. The people in my guild go through formas like they were candy. Many of us have damn near every weapon in our inventory with 5-6 polarities, and many of our Warframes have been polarized - usually on ability slots - as well. We collectively give you much money for these polarities, because void runs - as far as Forma gathering is concerned - can't cut it alone when you're trying to max out ever single weapon ever... and we even do this for many of the not so respected weapons (we're not just a Soma and Boltor Prime clan). But what's the point of doing this when at any moment you might roll back this blood and sweat in another move that targets only us, yet not others? Mod 2.0 was a universal change, this is a selective targeting of whose blood and sweat to steal.

 

I slotted three additional D polarities on my Vauban in order to fit expensive defense cards (some of which were 10 rank cards). Basic math immediately shows that I'll be able to fit far less than 8 of the 9 cards that I was using after you destroy those D-Polarities, and for this you're telling me it's okay because you gave me my Formas back. You're forcing me to go through the ungodly toil of relevelling my Vauban all over again - casting me back into endless tissue syndrome - and my only compensation for the time lost is that you're giving me back moves that I never used in aeons (Vortex simply wasn't my Style, my Guild forbade me to use Bounce ever again since the incident, and Tesla is a waste of time always). With Vauban as my main man, it's almost as if you've setting my entire account back to sometime last year in terms of my progress. I am not the only player staring down this threat, especially since some people have done this to far many more Warframes than I ever have.

 

In fact, the only reason I got stuck on Vauban - never touching anything else afterwards - is that this experience is so wretched that I could never bring myself to ever again Forma a Warframe by the time I had finished with Vauban. Formas are such a bad experience that they actually encourage people to experiment less in this game, because experimenting more just means experiencing the pain all over again - and then again, because things need additional polarities beyond just the first added one - and there is no fun in this. I love the game when the gear is worth using, but the process of getting there is so wretched that it often makes me ask why I'm doing bothering to do anything. I can barely stomach the process on guns - and I have forma'd far more guns than I care to remember - but I just can't do this again for Warframes, but that's exactly what you're ordering me to do.

 

Are not Formas your biggest cash cow? If the people playing either go - or stop buying them, out of fear regarding what you'll decide to roll back next - how much money will you lose? When the forma users leave, or stop buying them, you will no longer be earning money on them at rapid paces (in regards to weapons, I've sometimes used 2-3 per night). It is for this reason that I ask for you to respect the time - sanity - and sweat spent by those who used these Formas, and not simply give them their time rolled back with permission to immediately re-enter into the unholy grind that they already did for you once (usually against their wishes). I request the construction of a Legendary Forma - to be completely untradeable - that will enable me to put that polarity back on my Warframe, all without resetting to level 0 in the process. Do this to show us that our time - money - and effort spent on this game were not wasted, and that we may continue to buy endless Formas from you without fear of you stealing more time from us in the future.

 

Finally - for those of you claiming that I don't need a Legendary forma, just a 3 day affinity booster - I am so glad that your friends are will spend hours in wretched relevelling with you in places that aren't the void, as not everyone is willing to grind for what won't profit them. Whereas your friends would be to run with you in otherwise worthless places, mine would be playing the new archwing content and telling me that it's not their job to have no fun with they play Warframe. This is a perfectly fair response from them, because if you're not playing a game for fun then why are you bothering to play it at all? I don't know what mystical PUG luck some of you people have had, but I am practically ready to praise Jesus whenever I get a pug group to stay beyond round 10 (and after 5 itself is also shocking most of the time as well). Not everyone has the well oiled megalith guilds you people have, and for many of us - especially when we have jobs, and thus can only spend so long on this game in any straight chunk of time - the reveling process is not only cruel, but it's not even practical.

 

I am not asking for a Forma because I believe I am entitled to free polarities, only because I want the polarities that I already bled out my sanity for.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Clovis15

[xkillo32]

formas?

cash cow?

lol not even close

[Vargras]

I didn't care to read this, so I'm just gonna say this:

 

At least you're actually getting the formas back. Some devs wouldn't even do that.

[SgtFlex]

Sorry but ive seen too many of these threads now to even care.

Best case scenario: formas that dont reset ranks

More than likely scenario: forma refund plus a probable affinity booster

[Acos]

I'm sure they had nothing but malicious intentions by giving players the agency of all of their abilities. I'm sure they're just cackling as they give you forma. Ha ha ha, they would say, now you HAVE to spend time playing our game that... you don't apparently like since you just posted a giant wall of information on how you hate leveling up equipment.  

Maybe don't be such a hypocrite when you demand respect and I'd take this rambling post seriously. 

EDIT: Also I didn't think Vauban or Loki were difficult at all to level. Vauban has several options to completely shut down all incoming threats, and Loki has invisibility. It shouldn't take leaps and bounds to figure out how to make either of those frames extremely survivable. 

Edited October 20, 2014 by Acos

[Vunie]

TL DR 

[-Ozymandias-]

"I know many people who either don't get it because they don't use Vaubans or Lokis"

 

perma invisibility Lokis should never exist

 

And seriously, are ppl that lazy these days?

Edited October 20, 2014 by -HB-Angainor

[Thanatoasty]

I think the simple solution here is for the devs to give something to legendary cores, but with forma (they don't delevel your stuff when you use it)

[Zero.No.Hikari]

I'm just glad they're giving us 2 free slots. So instead of just six we have 8 with an aura slot. Now if only I actually wanted to use forma on a frame. Most the time I can fit a build without it. Weapons on the other hand start to be strong by the 1st one by the 3rd and 4th its overkill. That's coming from a person who 6 forma stuff like Tigris, Miter, DexFuris, Pyrana to name a few. The problem I see is people crying over the launchers not getting forma refund same with any balance passes that may happen afterwards.

[Aerothan]

"I know many people who either don't get it because they don't use Vaubans or Lokis"

 

perma invisibility Lokis should never exist

 

And seriously, are ppl that lazy these days?

Whoa now, I like my solo assassin xD

[BrotherJudas008]

You could always reorder your polarities, as far as I'm aware, and put the ones you value most in the middle (I'm assuming that it is going to be the two slots on one side, left or right, being removed), placing any blanks or less valued polarities where the ability polarities used to be.

 

That way you can at least mitigate some of the potential losses and time you'd need to spend with potential releveling.

Edited October 20, 2014 by BrotherJudas008

[Angius]

DE has every right to even wipe out all polarities of all of your frames and weapons, remove the potatoes and make your whole gear unranked without refunding you as much as one credit.

 

That's how it is, mate.

[Skynin]

Never bought Forma from the Marketplace. Like, literally, NEVER.
Still, i have too many of them. I can swim in those:

[[DE]Momaw]

Rhetorical flanking maneuver, go!

 

Star Trek Online just released their Delta Rising expansion, with a level cap raise to 60, and an all new starship tier, Tier 6, which are so superior to everything that came before that it makes Warframe's power creep look timid. Everybody who owned a Tier 5 ship can buy an upgrade to Tier 5 "upgraded", which are inferior to T6 and basically pointless.  People who owned a super-rare ship from the Lobi store or from a lockbox (statistically, given the drop rates involved, these ships cost about 200$) get a free upgrade! To... the pointless and insulting T5 upgrades. The most expensive and iconic ships in the entire game, even the time-limited ones that are virtually impossible to get now, are at a single stroke made second class citizens because PWE feels the need to sell their hideous new 30$ Tier 6 ships.

 

My point is: You talk about people losing perspective. DE loves us, and they do their best to do good things. If you think this treatment is insufferable, my suggestion is to go look at other MMOG developers that unapologetically beat the crap out of their customers, and then come back to Warframe and be thankful they are even trying to make this a graceful transition.

 

I think you also dramatically overstate the case about current leveling difficulty. Especially with Warframes where you have an aura slot to buy you a big chunk of defense right out of the gate. A quick round of Apollodorus with a decent weapon to rack up kills and you're good to go. But maybe that's just me.

[Inversus]

DE has every right to even wipe out all polarities of all of your frames and weapons, remove the potatoes and make your whole gear unranked without refunding you as much as one credit.

 

That's how it is, mate.

 

I have the right to be really annoying to everyone around me 24/7, doesn't mean I should be...

The 'but they're allowed to' argument is pretty weak

 

DE don't have to give us the forma back, and I'm glad they are, but it would be better if said forma would not re-rank your warframe since we put a lot of time and effort into ranking those formas up, plus many people buy affinity boosters to speed up that process

Edited October 20, 2014 by Inversus

[JohnProdman]

formas?

cash cow?

lol not even close

You clearly don't know much then. Formas are the single most platinum purchased item on the market.

 

On-topic: Cry more, entitled OP. You've been spamming (yes, spamming) the forums with these selfish posts for days now.

[Vargras]

I have the right to be really annoying to everyone around me 24/7, doesn't mean I should be...

The 'but they're allowed to' argument is pretty weak

They actually are allowed, though. You agreed that they could do whatever they want with the game and your account when you agreed to the Terms of Service. They could even delete your account without warning if they wanted and there'd be nothing you could do.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Vargras

[-Ozymandias-]

Whoa now, I like my solo assassin xD

For solo is fine, but im sick of the so called "pro lokis" with perma invis joining my game and claiming to be helping the team.

[KuroShiranui]

Why would you play it like that? Playing games like a chore when it was supposed to be a fun experience. Why make it a grind? Why not make it something out of a fun experience? You just polarize too much on a short amount of time that's why.

 

But meh, people would probably forget about it some time after U15 has launched. I'll just wait.

[Vorsches]

For solo is fine, but im sick of the so called "pro lokis" with perma invis joining my game and claiming to be helping the team.

Decoy master ability.

[R34LM]

For solo is fine, but im sick of the so called "pro lokis" with perma invis joining my game and claiming to be helping the team.

Agreed. I use perma invis for solo constantly, but I'd never use it for team play, unless I am with a group of friends or take out priority targets as a goal.

I have the right to be really annoying to everyone around me 24/7, doesn't mean I should be...

The 'but they're allowed to' argument is pretty weak

It may be weak, but it is true. "They're allowed to" is a poor choice of words; "they can" is suitable.

[Reidmaster]

You clearly don't know much then. Formas are the single most platinum purchased item on the market.

 

Really, why would you spend plat on such a common item that is really easy to farm? I mean I have received many forma from T1 captures and the like (that I will probably never use).

 

(Not saying that you are wrong, just wondering about the logic behind that...)

Edited October 20, 2014 by Reidmaster

[AXCrusnik]

I read about a quarter through this and stopped so I can say this: I love formaing my weapons and warframes. It is part of the reason I still play Warframe.

[(PSN)SeekerLoki]

They actually are allowed, though. You agreed that they could do whatever they want with the game and your account when you agreed to the Terms of Service. They could even delete your account without warning if they wanted and there'd be nothing you could do.

You are ignoring the consequences such an act would have.  Could they?  I suppose, but what would the end result be?  My guess would be a very quick death for Warframe.

[Zarbain]

Read to the point where you insulted rhino users for their existence then I just decided your intelligence wasn't enough for me to care for.