Are We Still In Beta?

[Latronico]

Techically we're still in Alpha... but yes, let's call it Beta. 

[Alphafox]

Pfff Warframe out of beta?

*Stares at Firefall 4 years of beta*

Noooooope.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Alphafox

[Latronico]

Pfff Warframe out of beta?

*Stares at Firefall 4 years of beta*

Noooooope.

 

It's just a good thing. A Beta can change, there are more 'big updates' then a finished game so... I like it. 

[Alphafox]

It's just a good thing. A Beta can change, there are more 'big updates' then a finished game so... I like it. 

Maybe if the time is well invested,but Firefall screwed up immensely in many points and I feel like Warframe is taking the same direction. The state of the game doesn't determine if you are getting big updates or not,and by the way a online game is never finished if in your head it's finished then it already failed.

[TheErebus.]

Maybe if the time is well invested,but Firefall screwed up immensely in many points and I feel like Warframe is taking the same direction. The state of the game doesn't determine if you are getting big updates or not,and by the way a online game is never finished if in your head it's finished then it already failed.

I'm quite positive that WF will not stay in a beta for such a long time, more like next year then it'll be fully released.

[_Raiklar_]

I do believe that although the DEV's are very cryptic about most things concerning Warframe that when it reaches a state of full release that there will be some sort of an official anouncement.

[vaugahn]

I do believe that although the DEV's are very cryptic about most things concerning Warframe that when it reaches a state of full release that there will be some sort of an official anouncement.

 

What are they cryptic about? As far as developers go, they're one of the better ones when it comes to transparency.

[Davoodoo]

1.  Still isn't a good reason as to why it isn't a beta. It is a free to play model which requires an optional form of payment. 

2. BullS#&$. They are constantly reading feedback and taking it into account whenever S#&$ hits the fan.

3. That is the stupidest reason for a game not being in beta. 

4. They are doing both. They are constantly fixing the old bugs and at the same time adding in new content to keep everyone busy.

5. 2563 POSTS AND YOU SAY THIS. WOW.

6. In case you haven't noticed: The rewards from these events are slowly being placed into the game via quests and through new bosses.

1. Charging for complete game, sure fine, but they claim its not finished game.

2. Who asked for archwings?? did we have any say on how melee 2.0 should look like?? hell no, heres your content guys, deal with it, maybe a year later we will make 2.0 of it, early access at least says what feature will they release next, how much of the game is complete, asks for players opinions and offers game at discounted price for buying it in unfished state.

3. Every exploit, flawed game mechanic or even change to initial design decision stays without wipes, meaning that ppl acquired gear/lvl/money whatever at different rate than intended and nothing is done about it.

4. I wont even mention how much new content is produced compared to fixes, they do both, while they should do only fixes, actual beta should be a)feature complete, b)be done in orderly fashion so you can release full product asap and justify being paid for it, if they are not feature complete, theres always early access which offers benefits for ppl testing.

5.Last time de actually asked us what we think was poll about mission types, even design council got "guys we need new enemy types post your ideas", sure you can post your opinion on forums, 1000 threads complaining about kubrow costs, ignored, 1000 threads complaining about melee 2.0 being poorly implemented, ignored, 10000 threads about void drops, ignored, Sure de will look, take ideas they like, change them, release and maybe take feedback into account if they feel like it. Not to mention that ppl on forums are minority when they should ask for opinion of whole playerbase.

6.Which exclusive rewards are being thrown back?? vandals?? nope, wraiths?? nope, frost prime was advertised as exclusive but im actually pretty happy it never was exclusive, brakk and detron were never advertised as exclusive, sheev probably will also make its way as drop from something in future, quests will provide ability to replay events but devs still avoid answering if they will yield rewards.

[_Raiklar_]

They tend to be cryptic about when things come out an as to the actual progress on things as well as this whole partnership thing cause not everyone understands the legal terms and wording of what they did release about it and when asked to explain it all they do is to refer you to it.

[TheErebus.]

1. Charging for complete game, sure fine, but they claim its not finished game.

2. Who asked for archwings?? did we have any say on how melee 2.0 should look like?? hell no, heres your content guys, deal with it, maybe a year later we will make 2.0 of it, early access at least says what feature will they release next, how much of the game is complete, asks for players opinions and offers game at discounted price for buying it in unfished state.

3. Every exploit, flawed game mechanic or even change to initial design decision stays without wipes, meaning that ppl acquired gear/lvl/money whatever at different rate than intended and nothing is done about it.

4. I wont even mention how much new content is produced compared to fixes, they do both, while they should do only fixes, actual beta should be a)feature complete, b)be done in orderly fashion so you can release full product asap and justify being paid for it, if they are not feature complete, theres always early access which offers benefits for ppl testing.

5.Last time de actually asked us what we think was poll about mission types, even design council got "guys we need new enemy types post your ideas", sure you can post your opinion on forums, 1000 threads complaining about kubrow costs, ignored, 1000 threads complaining about melee 2.0 being poorly implemented, ignored, 10000 threads about void drops, ignored, Sure de will look, take ideas they like, change them, release and maybe take feedback into account if they feel like it. Not to mention that ppl on forums are minority when they should ask for opinion of whole playerbase.

6.Which exclusive rewards are being thrown back?? vandals?? nope, wraiths?? nope, frost prime was advertised as exclusive but im actually pretty happy it never was exclusive, brakk and detron were never advertised as exclusive, sheev probably will also make its way as drop from something in future, quests will provide ability to replay events but devs still avoid answering if they will yield rewards.

1. No no nonoonnoonnono NOOOOOO. It isn't a finished game, they need the money in order to support it or would you rather pay monthly for a beta?

 

2. See here's the problem with your logic: WE DON'T DECIDE WHAT GETS PUT IN OR NOT. That is up to the developers. We simply can share our opinion on what it is and disagree with it. You think you're so special that DE has to take into account of every player and just immediately say "Ok F*** it, they don't want it."

No and many players wanted space combat.

 

3. Wipes do not signify whether a game is beta or not. Besides, if they decide to do a mandatory wipe on players progress, they would receive massive amounts of hate from them from doing this. This is why they had an optional reset in the past.

 

4. If they do just fixes, I guarantee you that a large portion of the fanbase will just leave the game because of how bored they get with it. They need content in order to keep their attention and to keep them busy.

 

5. Oh my god, the amount of sheer ignorance in this one is just too much to handle. You have the idea that DE ONLY look at threads that support them. You are wrong. SOOOOO wrong. They always look at GOOD constructive threads and I'm sorry, but have you ever looked at the community hot topics? The massive polls they put up on recent changes. The excalibur incident was immediately removed once they saw the huge backlash about it on the forums. 

 

You clearly haven't even taken a look at what the Devs do here. This much is certain.

 

6. So tell me again what does Corrupted Vor drop again? I seem to recall it being mods that were only obtainable in the past and then at a certain point they were no longer obtainable. 

[vaugahn]

They tend to be cryptic about when things come out an as to the actual progress on things as well as this whole partnership thing cause not everyone understands the legal terms and wording of what they did release about it and when asked to explain it all they do is to refer you to it.

 

It's pretty easy to understand. Basically all it says is that it's happening, and some details about the money involved. There's even a glossary at the end.

 

I think the fact that they're providing actual documents and not just their interpretation of the documents is a good sign of transparency.

[Zyion]

Technically, yes the game is in beta. But it feels more like a soft launch then a beta. In a beta, you want people to test as many things as possible to fix any issues when the game is finally released. Any decent beta would avoid charging people for in-game items because the players are doing you a favor by testing your product. But DE has been kinda skirting the edge of that as almost everything but cosmetic items can be obtained without paying money.

 

Although the one thing that should stop in the forums is the "it's in beta" excuse. Once someone ponies up some money for an in-game item, they have the right to question any design decision that DE makes with their purchase.

[vaugahn]

Technically, yes the game is in beta. But it feels more like a soft launch then a beta. In a beta, you want people to test as many things as possible to fix any issues when the game is finally released. Any decent beta would avoid charging people for in-game items because the players are doing you a favor by testing your product. But DE has been kinda skirting the edge of that as almost everything but cosmetic items can be obtained without paying money.

 

Although the one thing that should stop in the forums is the "it's in beta" excuse. Once someone ponies up some money for an in-game item, they have the right to question any design decision that DE makes with their purchase.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/178881-warframe-frequently-asked-questions/

[Zyion]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/178881-warframe-frequently-asked-questions/

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here...

[vaugahn]

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here...

 

Those should answer your questions as to the whole "money and beta" relationship.

[Kalenath]

<snip>

 

You clearly haven't even taken a look at what the Devs do here. This much is certain.

 

<snip>

 

 

Dude...

 

All of that requires a functional brain.

 

Which as all know is NOT a prerequisite for posting on an internet forum.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kalenath

[Zyion]

Those should answer your questions as to the whole "money and beta" relationship.

 

...

 

I never really had any questions about the "money and beta" relationships. I was merely stating an opinion about how betas should work. Legally speaking the game is in beta and any purchases should be done with that in mind. But to me, the game is in a soft launch state rather then a full on beta state.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Zyion

[dashashou]

[vaugahn]

 

I never really had any questions about th "money and beta" relationships. I was merely stating an opinion about how betas should work. Legally speaking the game is in beta and any purchases should be done with that in mind. But to me, the game is in a soft launch state rather then a full on beta state.

 

The "questions" thing was just a mannerism, I know you didn't have any questions.

 

Warframe (and many other games like it) have started to redefine the boundaries of beta and soft launch and continuous delivery. Personally I think it's a good thing, as it allows smaller studios to punch above their weight by using their playerbase as QA, though that's subjective. The term "beta" in the gaming world has come to mean a game being in an unfinished state, as opposed to the software definition of beta. If were going by software definitions, this game is still in alpha.

 

Again, whether this all is a good thing or not is subjective. But this game is most definitely in beta, at least in the modern sense of the word.

[Davoodoo]

1. No no nonoonnoonnono NOOOOOO. It isn't a finished game, they need the money in order to support it or would you rather pay monthly for a beta?

 

2. See here's the problem with your logic: WE DON'T DECIDE WHAT GETS PUT IN OR NOT. That is up to the developers. We simply can share our opinion on what it is and disagree with it. You think you're so special that DE has to take into account of every player and just immediately say "Ok F*** it, they don't want it."

No and many players wanted space combat.

 

3. Wipes do not signify whether a game is beta or not. Besides, if they decide to do a mandatory wipe on players progress, they would receive massive amounts of hate from them from doing this. This is why they had an optional reset in the past.

 

4. If they do just fixes, I guarantee you that a large portion of the fanbase will just leave the game because of how bored they get with it. They need content in order to keep their attention and to keep them busy.

 

5. Oh my god, the amount of sheer ignorance in this one is just too much to handle. You have the idea that DE ONLY look at threads that support them. You are wrong. SOOOOO wrong. They always look at GOOD constructive threads and I'm sorry, but have you ever looked at the community hot topics? The massive polls they put up on recent changes. The excalibur incident was immediately removed once they saw the huge backlash about it on the forums. 

 

You clearly haven't even taken a look at what the Devs do here. This much is certain.

 

6. So tell me again what does Corrupted Vor drop again? I seem to recall it being mods that were only obtainable in the past and then at a certain point they were no longer obtainable. 

1. I would rather skip all content updates, do a closed beta which fixes most of stuff and provides minimal content to say that game is worthy of full release with founder program to finance it(maybe cash shop if founder isnt enough, which was first tested by closed beta group) then do short open beta to test if servers can handle more ppl then push the game out. After that point you can charge ppl whatever you want. But thats me.

2. We had exactly 0 impact on melee 2.0, dmg 2.0, drops 2.0 and even oldest one, mods 2.0 which to this point still got its problems despite being in game and complained about for nearly 1 and half year. De simply got 1 idea from complains put it in, changed few things and pushed it out, not once they even considered rerolling changes if they werent up to quality standard and not once they took priority in fixing it. 

3.Themselves they do not, but outright saying that there will be no wipes signify that you dont treat beta as testing period but rather excuse for state of your product.

4.Thats why beta should be done as fast as possible, theyve given 2 years for players to complete their game, if they didnt focus on completing their game then they never will for that same reason.

5.Im not saying support them, they look for ideas for new content or improvements to old one(mixed elements for dmg 2.0, stances for melee 2.0), they dont care if we dont like content or wish it to be improved unless there is literally no one saying that its acceptable, this happened only once btw, with kubrows color plat lottery, only once de was forced to change their decision.

6.I dont remember mods being ever called exclusive, there was only 1 exclusive mod so far, primed chamber, still not available in game.

[Innocent_Flower]

The game plays like an alpha, gets marketed as a beta and is updated like a full finished game. 

[TheErebus.]

1. I would rather skip all content updates, do a closed beta which fixes most of stuff and provides minimal content to say that game is worthy of full release with founder program to finance it(maybe cash shop if founder isnt enough, which was first tested by closed beta group) then do short open beta to test if servers can handle more ppl then push the game out. After that point you can charge ppl whatever you want. But thats me.

2. We had exactly 0 impact on melee 2.0, dmg 2.0, drops 2.0 and even oldest one, mods 2.0 which to this point still got its problems despite being in game and complained about for nearly 1 and half year. De simply got 1 idea from complains put it in, changed few things and pushed it out, not once they even considered rerolling changes if they werent up to quality standard and not once they took priority in fixing it. 

3.Themselves they do not, but outright saying that there will be no wipes signify that you dont treat beta as testing period but rather excuse for state of your product.

4.Thats why beta should be done as fast as possible, theyve given 2 years for players to complete their game, if they didnt focus on completing their game then they never will for that same reason.

5.Im not saying support them, they look for ideas for new content or improvements to old one(mixed elements for dmg 2.0, stances for melee 2.0), they dont care if we dont like content or wish it to be improved unless there is literally no one saying that its acceptable, this happened only once btw, with kubrows color plat lottery, only once de was forced to change their decision.

6.I dont remember mods being ever called exclusive, there was only 1 exclusive mod so far, primed chamber, still not available in game.

2. Zero impact. So I suppose the thousands of players wanting the melee system to be more refined before Melee 2.0 is gonna be ignored then. They are fixing problems being faced with the multiple things you've listed.

Melee 2.0 is getting directional air combat. Which is a fix to the lack of melee combat against flying enemies.

3. The english there is so broken I can't even read it. But read this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/28-open-beta-agreement-read-me/

Section 5.

4. The beta is here in order to allow them to make drastic changes to the game. Without it, it would seem odd for such a "finished game" to have a huge overhaul to it.

5. I believe I heard themselves say that they weren't happy with it either, which is why they removed it. You see? THEY DO LISTEN TO US WHEN THINGS AREN'T RIGHT. LIKE IT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.

 

Or how about the precious changes with Excalibur? They hated his LoS for radial blind, and so they got rid of it and are currently re-working it.

 

People voiced out that Ash is not useful enough, and so they altered his ultimate so that it is faster, and made him much more effective in the battlefield. 

 

 

 

6. The mods that could only be obtained during the Cicero Crisis event were made obtainable with the inclusion of Corrupted Vor. So there, your point has been effectively destroyed.

[Kalenath]

The game plays like an alpha, gets marketed as a beta and is updated like a full finished game. 

 

And since it confuses people, they get angry and want it to be THEIR WAY. NOW.

 

All I can say to them is this:

 

Good luck with getting DE to do what you want when you want it. Last I checked THEY (Digital Extremes) own the game.

[Onisa]

Aren't we supposed to be testing the game if it's in beta? It's kinda hard to do so without total transparency on how things are supposed to work. First with Stalker, then with Harvester, G3, and Kubrow Imprints. I won't even go into drop tables past this quick mention. You'd think after the first time they giddily hinted at something that was perfectly clear to them (since they made it) that they would understand being vague only leads to frustrations for the test/player base.

 

I get that definitions shift and all, but if they keep shifting you end up with things like a barking house pet being labeled a 'cat'.

[Kalenath]

Aren't we supposed to be testing the game if it's in beta? It's kinda hard to do so without total transparency on how things are supposed to work. First with Stalker, then with Harvester, G3, and Kubrow Imprints. I won't even go into drop tables past this quick mention. You'd think after the first time they giddily hinted at something that was perfectly clear to them (since they made it) that they would understand being vague only leads to frustrations for the test/player base.

 

I get that definitions shift and all, but if they keep shifting you end up with things like a barking house pet being labeled a 'cat'.

 

Perfect transparency isn't going to happen in a world where humans are greedy. It just isn't. Would be nice, but not going to happen.

 

THEY tell us A LOT more than MOST F2P devs. Indeed, more than ANY other devs I have ever dealt with. F2P or not.

 

The thing is, DE is not a large game company. They are not Blizzard or EA. (Or Ubisoft *BARF*) They decided to make a game in away that had never been made to work before. Funded by the players, with input from the players.

 

This whole IDEA had been tried, but had never succeeded for a well made, fully formed game concept before. One of the problems that I know of from my OWN -VERY limited- experience in working on a video game is that things change internally, sometimes on an hour by hour basis.

 

Do they have TIME to keep everyone in the loop on EVERY SINGLE change being made to the system? ESPECIALLY when up to half or 3/4 of those changes will NEVER make it to the game proper?

 

And if they did? Someone would take it and copy it, making 20 crappy clones of the game to flood the market and they would go out of business.

 

The old labels don't apply, but DE can call it whatever they want. It is their game.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kalenath