Saryn Revamp

[ConviX]

So I would like to dedicate this post to try and figure out why this warframe is so underused. The main reason is well, she sucks. The only useful skill is her ultimate and the other 3 are either copies of other frames abilities or just bad in general. I propose that in this post we give ideas on how to make this warframe on tier with the other warframes because right now, I almost never see a saryn in any games.

[BunnieBox]

I usually see Saryn in server a lot, it's true she is low tier.

But, Because of Design and Looking,

Some people play game for fun, they don't look how this frame suck.

They look how it cool and the design was perfect.

Simple Word : Breast.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Hacker.Nova

[Kinperor]

So I would like to dedicate this post to try and figure out why this warframe is so underused. The main reason is well, she sucks. The only useful skill is her ultimate and the other 3 are either copies of other frames abilities or just bad in general. I propose that in this post we give ideas on how to make this warframe on tier with the other warframes because right now, I almost never see a saryn in any games.

 

Well, I think the only way I could have disagreed more with you is if you called even her ult useless. 

 

Hence my suggestion that we change nothing on her, except her 3 (maybe). 

[izzatuw]

Aren't most frames one trick ponies though?

Anyway, I think she's fine as of now, we need an Excal revamp and Nekros revamp (thankfully Excal revamp is coming).

[JimmyThreeNut]

Saryn sucks? Wat.

Miasma is an excellent nuke skill with an added stun.

Molt deals a good bit of damage (explodes at the end) and diverts enemy fire like a decoy. You can also spam it to make it explode rapidly, which does more damage than Miasma but eats energy.

Venom is excellent for tagging groups of enemies with viral status, making them significantly easier to deal with.

 

Contagion  applies a % damage boost to your melee weapon, for melee builds, this can be a very nice skill to have (with maxed power Str, it adds +171.75% toxin damage).

 

The only skill of hers that I would consider very similar to another frame's is Molt, and It's actually better than decoy, as there is no casting time and a toxic explosion of doom (at the cost of an extra 25 base energy).

 

If anything, I would suggest making contagion a group buff, possibly a toggle-skill.

Edited October 22, 2014 by JimmyThreeNut

[Guest]

What exactly do you want from Saryn? To be viable in T4 missions? As far as we know, she was designed to be low/mid-tier.

I agree that her 1st and 3rd skills need revamp , but don't touch Molt. Molt is great as it is now.

My suggestion would be to adjust Contagion, so it can be applicable on primaries/secondaries. No idea what to do with Venom to be honest. It is good in mid game as it can burn HP fast.

[(PSN)LK-GriM]

So I would like to dedicate this post to try and figure out why this warframe is so underused. The main reason is well, she sucks. The only useful skill is her ultimate and the other 3 are either copies of other frames abilities or just bad in general. I propose that in this post we give ideas on how to make this warframe on tier with the other warframes because right now, I almost never see a saryn in any games.

Saryn next to Frost is my favorite frame. I use her more than Frost currently. She's a blast IMO. Its fun as heck melting enemies and tricking them to attack the molt. I don't think she needs a revamp, maybe just some more love. Her base color pattern sucks and that's the only thing I think needs addressed. She's very pale and boring for a toxin based frame.

[(PSN)Mhj-sab]

OH OH other than her 3 please change the name from her 3 to her 1 and vice versa, that's the biggest issue I see with her `-`...

On a serious note: her 1 is OK, molt is good, ulti is good... the only "meh" is the 3.

´-´ Actually her 1 is the reason I like her the most, I love spreading dem spores and watching everybody getting viral procs XD it's priceless. Then I just melt them `-`

Edited October 22, 2014 by (PS4)Mhj-sab

[Clurichaun]

The problem with Sayrn is that Miasma works best with as little duration as possible which negativly affects her other 3 abilities. She's a good frame with decent survivability. Her abilities could do with a tweaking rather than a full rework.

[Archwizard]

Far as I can tell, Saryn was intended to be a melee frame, or at best mid-range. She has above-average defense like a melee would need, relatively low range on her direct-damage abilities, and an ability that makes her melee attacks deal more elemental damage. Her major issue is that, since Damage 2.0, the Poison/Toxic element in itself isn’t all that effective, since it doesn’t ignore all forms of defense anymore – thus making Contagion less effective as a damage skill, and reducing her appeal in melee. To make matters worse, it costs 75 energy for a buff that only affects Saryn herself, and only with melee attacks; if she doesn't have a melee weapon equipped, then it becomes completely useless. Speed and Warcry completely blow it out of the water, since they grant a substantial boost to the whole party (and, between Speed's lower cost and Warcry's debuff, are more cost effective to boot!). It's been repeatedly called a useless and forgettable ability, so perhaps it's time for Saryn to... shed her skin, so to speak.

Archetype: Mid-Range Debuffer.

Suggested changes:

- Venom spores are more responsive to area-effect attacks, each melee attack will also pop at least one spore, and any unpopped spores on a slain enemy will automatically detonate (without spreading the effect) against nearby foes.

- Molt transfers all buffs, debuffs and statuses from the casting Saryn to the decoy upon summoning. When the Molt fades or is destroyed, explosion damage is increased by total damage it received.

- Contagion replaced with “Allure”: Grants damage mitigation to the caster, with a small Gas damage aura surrounding Saryn capable of popping Venom spores.

- Miasma's status chance per tick is increased. Power Duration adds additional ticks with stagger; reducing Power Duration no longer increases damage dealt.

Yes, Allure is both a perfume pun (THOSE HEELS and fungal growths THOUGH) and a revival of Overheat. Scott has already said Overheat was not right in Ember’s hands, and I’m inclined to agree – it’s not fit for someone intended to spam Fireball from half a room away, but it’s perfect for someone with Saryn's values of range and defense. Plus, it opens the door to let Saryn use every Toxin-based element (she’s already got three!). With the change to Molt, the player can now transfer the mitigation to the Molt to make it last longer (plus Gas damage for those melee enemies), culminating in one final explosion of poison damage (or two, since Molt does more damage if it lasts the whole duration - benefiting from mitigation). Alternately, players can Leeroy Jenkins with Allure up for maximum Venom effectiveness, bringing Saryn back to her glory days of a hundred DoT ticks a second. Meanwhile, Miasma has armor-reducing DoT to take advantage of the way Corrosive procs stack (THAT’s how you do an anti-armor skill, NOT Terrify), skyrocketing Saryn’s damage utility against all factions.

[V0LK]

What? Venom is good? Are you guys trolling or are you that delusional?

 

It's completely broken! Versus low lvl enemies it's faster and more effective to just shoot them and vs high lvl enemies it doesn't work because damage is an absolute joke.

[(PSN)Mhj-sab]

 

What? Venom is good? Are you guys trolling or are you that delusional?

 

It's completely broken! Versus low lvl enemies it's faster and more effective to just shoot them and vs high lvl enemies it doesn't work because damage is an absolute joke.

 

Hence why I say Venom is "OK" it's good when it procs Viral though,and it has a decent chance of proc'ing it. That doesn't mean the skill is GOOD, Saryn still needs a bit of love.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Saryn is the best nuker on the solar system, any enemy below lv 50 she absolutely destroys, make of that as you will. Done some Miasma reserch, because ppl seem to think less duration equals more damage , Miasma with no duration mods is 4  + 1 ticks of 375 damage = 1875 damage  and Miasma with max fleeting expertise is 1 + 1 ticks of 938 damage = 1876 damage , so as you can see unless you wanna deal that damage quicker no one is forcing you to use minus duration mods on saryn, its optional, so therefore your screwing her other abilities by choice, the only exception is fleeting expertise rank 4 which does yeild more damage , but far from a game changer and i doubt any of yous even use a fleeting expertise rank 4 on saryn so its irrelevant.

Edited October 22, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[SanguineXIII]

Saryn is the best nuker on the solar system, any enemy below lv 50 she absolutely destroys, make of that as you will.

No?

 

Seriously, miasma, even when built solely for max damage stops killing/dealing any significant damage to enemies at about level 45. All her other abilities are equally useless against anything 45+. Maybe venom's viral procs, but since that is reliant on duration mods and people -not- popping the spores to proc reliably, builds for her end up being max survivability and miasma damage/spammability for stunlocking.

 

And considering 45+ is the only content that actually matters in the game, going by the demand for Prime Gear being what it is, Her, and several other frames' abilities really need to be given a tweaking pass to -all- have utility in situations where their damage no longer matters.

 

My ideas for tweaks, take them as you will:

 

Venom: Get rid of the "popping" mechanic, have the ability totally automated once cast, it has a chance to proc viral and spread every time viral procs or when the tagged enemy dies. (Change name to contagion.)

 

Molt: The thing needs more health still, if it lasts less than 4 seconds there's no reason to be using it over miasma which stuns more effectively than this distracts enemy fire.

 

Contagion: Needs to be changed into a team buff, also should apply to ranged weapons but at half the effect of the melee buff. Probably needs to have the buff toned down slightly to compensate. (Change name to venom.)

 

Miasma: Biggest changes here, should be turned into a toggled damage over time with moderate chance to proc corrosive and stuns upon proccing. No more weird opposite scaling to the other powers. Total freedom of movement while toggled on, akin to ember's world on fire.

Edited October 22, 2014 by SanguineXIII

[Ryokuzaki]

........ SUCKS?

 

Try 6-Formas on her and then tell me about DA DAMAGES.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

No?

 

Seriously, miasma, even when built solely for max damage stops killing/dealing any significant damage to enemies at about level 45. All her other abilities are equally useless against anything 45+. Maybe venom's viral procs, but since that is reliant on duration mods and people -not- popping the spores to proc reliably, builds for her end up being max survivability and miasma damage/spammability for stunlocking.

 

And considering 45+ is the only content that actually matters in the game, going by the demand for Prime Gear being what it is, Her, and several other frames' abilities really need to be given a tweaking pass to -all- have utility in situations where their damage no longer matters.

 

My ideas for tweaks, take them as you will:

 

Venom: Get rid of the "popping" mechanic, have the ability totally automated once cast, it has a chance to proc viral and spread every time viral procs or when the tagged enemy dies. (Change name to contagion.)

 

Molt: The thing needs more health still, if it lasts less than 4 seconds there's no reason to be using it over miasma which stuns more effectively than this distracts enemy fire.

 

Contagion: Needs to be changed into a team buff, also should apply to ranged weapons but at half the effect of the melee buff. Probably needs to have the buff toned down slightly to compensate. (Change name to venom.)

 

Miasma: Biggest changes here, should be turned into a toggled damage over time with moderate chance to proc corrosive and stuns upon proccing. No more weird opposite scaling to the other powers.

DE dont balance warframes beyond where saryn eventually falls flat on her face.

[EchoesOfRain]

I posted a couple of ideas in some other thread

 

Venom: Make it a Torid bullet, but much more potent. Enemies that walk through the gas are inflicted with [unpoppable] spores. If viral procs, a spore bursts and procs viral to surrounding enemies

 

Contagion: A poisonous gas seeps from Saryn's body, leaving gas trails as she moves about. Gas hurts enemies standing in it and leaves a slight DoT.

 

 

The goal here was to keep her DoT style, while making it easier for her to seem like a warframe that spreads the disease and poison while still being viable. Enemies die too fast for Venom to spread or damage much, and even then the damage isn't too great

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I think Venom should work similarly, just have larger spores that are better targeted by melee. And it would be named Contagion. Also, I think every enemy it spreads to should work the same as the first enemy. That way, it can potentially benefit long-term: weapons probably deal damage faster to the first enemy, but by the time it spreads it could cause huge numbers of enemies to have a Viral proc.

 

Molt is fine.

 

I would change Contagion by making it give melee weapons completely ignore armor for damage, dealing Gas or Poison procs 50-100% of the time in addition to whatever else the weapon would've proc'd. I would also allow it to add 50% of primary/secondary weapon damage as poison damage (and not allow that to combine with base damage types).

 

EDIT: I actually like EchoesOfRain's Contagion idea from above better:

 

 

Contagion: A poisonous gas seeps from Saryn's body, leaving gas trails as she moves about. Gas hurts enemies standing in it and leaves a slight DoT.

 

Edited October 23, 2014 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[ThePresident777]

Miasma's radius is terrible.  It's a measly 15 meters.  Miasma used to have a standard radius and it should have been left alone.  But, Saryn got nerfed for no good reason while better Warframes were created, or other warframes were improved.  What is the purpose of claiming nerf for balance only to improve other Warframes beyond the point of the nerfed Warframe or create better ones?

[RoboDoge]

Saryn needs some buff to Miasma and Contagion only.

 

 

Miasma need either more range or some crowdcontrol effect. And Contagion needs to buff either every user weapon, or whole team melee weapons.

[MechaKnight]

Well if you're talking about Saryn problems and reworks, my thread (about 300 replies) has plenty of info and suggestions.

 

The upcoming ability mod card rework will be a big boost to her gameplay as well as many other warframes. But there's still some problems in abilities.

 

Venom in general doesn't spread so easily depending on player weapons used. Even DE employees can have ban runs with Venom--here's a

where one of them failed 100% of their attempts to spread Venom. Regardless of the weapon used, such a rate of failure can be seen as wasteful. The thread also has some videos showing how low the status chance per second for Venom's viral status is. Many weapons can do better at this, but the top priority for a rework of this ability is the difficulty of spreading spores.

 

This problem can be fixed with the upcoming ability rework by creating synergy within abilities. Perhaps by giving Venom synergy with Molt, Contagion, and perhaps Miasma, the difficulty of spreading spores will be reduced for the appropriate energy cost of using multiple abilities to achieve this effect.

 

Molt is much better since the status removal feature has been added. The best improvement if it could have would be the ability to help Venom. However it does have problems with short distance and line of sight. Perhaps changing the elemental status on it to gas would help.

 

Contagion is not great, It's very unattractive given how boring it is, and the rather mundane use it has. It's just toxic damage applied to your melee weapon. You'd need to use at least Intensify in your build to make the damage worthwhile compared to normal toxin damage mods. Meanwhile Volt's Speed does a tremendous amount more for melee and general utility than Contagion for the same cost.

 

Miasma is a mixed bag. The calculations are speculated to be faulty. Modding Saryn correctly makes this ability considerably worse that it's supposed to be. Going the opposite direction is better, but feels like a major nerf to the viability of the rest of her kit. The ability rework could by effect phase out the use of such a build since you'd rather have 3 viable abilities + weak crowd control as opposed to only one ability. Really, Miasma could be reworked to have an advantage people would mod for to solve this problem.

 

If you want to know more, you can read my thread I mentioned above. In total, she can be better, but the solutions seem to be a heap of small tweaks. If implemented right, players won't feel a difference other than the abilities becoming better.

Edited October 23, 2014 by MechaKnight

[MechaKnight]

Saryn is the best nuker on the solar system, any enemy below lv 50 she absolutely destroys, make of that as you will. Done some Miasma reserch, because ppl seem to think less duration equals more damage , Miasma with no duration mods is 4  + 1 ticks of 375 damage = 1875 damage  and Miasma with max fleeting expertise is 1 + 1 ticks of 938 damage = 1876 damage , so as you can see unless you wanna deal that damage quicker no one is forcing you to use minus duration mods on saryn, its optional, so therefore your screwing her other abilities by choice, the only exception is fleeting expertise rank 4 which does yeild more damage , but far from a game changer and i doubt any of yous even use a fleeting expertise rank 4 on saryn so its irrelevant.

 

Your "research" is false. Check the thread in the previous post.

 

The total damage done does fluctuate by a few hundred damage depending on the duration. This is not considering power strength mods, simply duration.

Edited October 24, 2014 by MechaKnight