I Feel Like The Supra Should Be "better" Than It Currently Is

[Nira]

Most, if not all weapons in Warframe have a main plus point (crits on Soma, status on Grakata, raw damage on Boltor, etc.) that outweighs their negative aspects. For weapons of a similar role within similar mastery requirement and/or means of acquisition (e.g. clan-tech) I think this is especially important for a vague semblance of balance. The Supra, however, seems to have very little in the way of redeeming factors. Let's take a look at the challenges we as Supra users face:

 

1) The infamous projectile flight speed

2) Spool-up time (negligible post-modding, but it's still there)

3) Reload time (4.2 seconds, cancellable but not by much)

4) Considerable recoil (on a laser weapon...?!)

5) Ammo efficiency (not such a biggie with proper management, but an issue nonetheless)

 

 

The damage output of the weapon, in my opinion, does not fit with the potential challenge it presents the user, as well as the build requirements (mastery rank 7, 7 fieldron, 1 forma). I have a few ideas that might make using the Supra a little more rewarding. Note that they are independent alternatives; I am not proposing all are implemented.

 

1) Increase the base damage.

The least subtle proposition, but more per-shot damage means the user will be rewarded more for leading targets, compensating for recoil, as well as simply obtaining and forma-ing the weapon in the first place!

 

2) Reduce recoil characteristics.

A laser weapon, even a tri-barrelled rapid-fire repeater, still works on concentrated light beams, so the hefty recoil is a little weird. I propose to reduce the amount of overall recoil from sustained fire, though would keep the spread/cone of fire the same, as it is not meant to be an accurate sharp-shooter.

 

3) Decrease reload time and/or increase magazine capacity.

Honestly I think this one could be implemented alongside 1 or 2 without going too much the other way. At the very least we could have reload animation cancellation as early as it is on things like the Soma, i.e. about halfway through.

 

 

One thing I do not think is irksome enough to change is the projectile flight speed. After spending a bunch of time and forma on my Supra I'm pretty much used to the flight time now, and have come to accept it as an idiosyncrasy of the weapon. 

 

If you're still with me, thanks for reading :D If not...

 

TLDR - the Supra, in my view, currently does not perform the way it should. It needs either higher base damage or less recoil to reward the user for the comparative challenge of learning to use it.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Dualice

[bejuizb]

It doesn't need more damage or lesser recoil. It needs something to make it unique. 

[Kthal]

The Supra is in need of some love...

 

One suggestion I saw a while back was to remove ammunition from it altogether, and have the Supra run on a unique overheating mechanic (Think Halo plasma weapons with unlimited ammo enabled).

[P0isoNblacK]

i love this rifle.. so sad it's so mid tier mostly..

[bejuizb]

i love this rifle.. so sad it's so mid tier mostly..

There's no tiers in Warframe. Any gun can be made to work just fine. 

[Nira]

It doesn't need more damage or lesser recoil. It needs something to make it unique. 

 

Is it not that already? There's certainly no mistaking it.

[ThePredicament]

It's a heavy plasma machinegun that's not top tier. It does what it needs to do and that's all it is, just like the Tiberon.

 

 

There's no tiers in Warframe. Any gun can be made to work just fine.

I disagree. Putting just as much work on two different weapons will result in varying degrees of progression but will still build towards one being better than the other. Factors such as base traits and damage are accountable for tiers.

 

With that said though, tiers in this game isn't useless, crap, decent, good, great, god it's more like beginner's, novice, high, top, god.

Edited October 22, 2014 by TheLocalHentai

[(PSN)TheAce37]

How about a warmup... with infinate ammo. But a 7 second overhest if you use it too much at once. Make it like a lazerrr gun should be

[Nira]

It's a heavy plasma machinegun that's not top tier. It does what it needs to do and that's all it is, just like the Tiberon.

 

But its construction costs and mastery requirements are in line with top tier weaponry. That's my point. For what you need to obtain the Supra, the results aren't generally worth it.

 

 

*EDIT* Now there's an idea...

 

One suggestion I saw a while back was to remove ammunition from it altogether, and have the Supra run on a unique overheating mechanic (Think Halo plasma weapons with unlimited ammo enabled).

 

 

I like it.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Dualice

[(PSN)LK-GriM]

Treat it like a heavy machine gun. Eliminate ammo, give it an over heat bar and if you over heat it you'll have to cool down.

[GinKenshin]

an overheat sounds really good and unique, +1 for that 

[taiiat]

Magnetically propelling Plasmatic Projectiles is to be expected to have some Kick. Newton's third law.

(alternatively, if we want to go with Hardlight as it's Projectiles, when you supercool Light to an almost standstill, you need to deal with it's Energy, which in an applied weaponized state - could theoretically have Kick, also could not, we just don't know because Hardlight isn't fully developed yet).

 

a Magazine of 150 and a Reload of 3.5 would solve those related issues.

 

honestly, i think something very important here, is the Crit and Status Stats. Crit Chance should be 5%, and Status Chance, minimum 10%, preferably 12/15%. why? it has relatively slow Ballistic Projectiles. this is fine, we capitalize to reward players for it. with above average Damage and a good Status Chance for the type of Weapon to make hitting with the Projectiles a rewarding experience.

 

and speaking of, Damage. it's not a main focal point, but adding a bit more couldn't hurt. wouldn't need a lot though, perhaps +5 at most.

 

 

the critical point though, is Supra being unique enough to justify it's existence. as it is now, it's a Machine Gun that shoots Ballistic projectiles. that's about it unfortunately.

 

my simplest change for Supra to make it unique, would be to have it fire from all 3 Barrels at the same time per shot. yeah, a 3 barreled repeater. it'll throw a HELL of a lot of shots downrange then. Damage would stay as is if this happens ofcourse, as the potential Damage would be very, very high.

the mediocre Accuracy at best of the Weapon will still keep it from being too good to be true though. you'll still lose a significant portion of your potential Damage at medium Range, but enough shots will hit to make it useful due to the 3x projectiles.

 

 

 

while a Heat based Weapon mechanic with no Ammunition is popular, it's unlikely to be implemented simply due to the fact that it has infinite Ammunition(think about trying to pitch that to someone who's job it is to create balanced Equipment in a game, he'd look at you like you're crazy). creativity is great, but not if the suggestions are never going to be implemented.

Edited October 22, 2014 by taiiat

[NanoDecerto]

Yeah I currently use it as a light show to accompany mirage and not much else. 

 

Treat it like a heavy machine gun. Eliminate ammo, give it an over heat bar and if you over heat it you'll have to cool down.

I don't think heavy machine guns work like that :P

But seriously, this mechanic would make the gun invaluable in certain situations, and I think that would be a bit too much for a buff.

[Seanjuju]

Good luck getting it buffed.

[MSD3000]

Warframe is at odds with many people's sense of progression in that it does indeed have a small but steady power creep in its weapon roster, as new weapons are released. BUT there is no reliable way to know what is more current, for new players. Mastery Rank was meant to fix that, but it's been pretty well ignored by DE, who should, in theory either be lowering weapons mastery rank to accompany it's percieved "tier", or continuing to require higher and higher mastery rank for newer weapons. Neither thing, they've been willing to do, and each for it's own fairly legitimate reason. (Lowering mastery rank pisses of older players who feel it cheapens the game somehow, having new weapons require continually higher MR requirements puts off new players who don't want to get to rank 15 to feel baddass)

 

That brings us back to the Soma. It's a very old weapon, one of the first clan-tech weapons available. It was great for the time, but other stuff has supplanted it in just about every way. It was meant to be "god tier" when it came out, and cost a bunch to make. The problem with fixing the Supra, is that DE would make almost no money for the effort. Everyone who is gonna get one, already has one, for the most part. It can't be bought through the Market, either. Fixing it now, when DE is so busy on so many other aspects just doesn't seem like a pragmatic use of time. Even if I agree with your feedback, I doubt it would ever happen, and maybe it's best to just leave it lie and move on to some of the more current and unique weapons like the Quanta.

[Netheroc]

It doesn't need more damage or lesser recoil. It needs something to make it unique. 

What i absolutely think it needs is either bottomless magazine, never ever reload, just feed directly from the ammo pool and spray away all 630 bullets, or Overheat function, if you fire too long at once, you are forced to manually cool it down, resulting in either being forced to put it on your back and use sidearm/melee, or do a rather long animation to cool it down.

[Melos-mevim]

supra isn't the only weapon that needs a bit of a buff, embolsit needs some love too, anything that has a high mastery lock, and/or a high cost really, they either need a buff or they need a reduction in requirements

[Netheroc]

The problem with fixing the Supra, is that DE would make almost no money for the effort. Everyone who is gonna get one, already has one, for the most part. It can't be bought through the Market, either. Fixing it now, when DE is so busy on so many other aspects just doesn't seem like a pragmatic use of time. Even if I agree with your feedback, I doubt it would ever happen, and maybe it's best to just leave it lie and move on to some of the more current and unique weapons like the Quanta.

And you really support that idea of completely ignoring the old weapons and rather focus on the newly released weapons? Are you out of your mind? The other weapons still exist, and have all reason to be useable. Latron got buffed in update 12, and it existed since the very beginning. I know they did it for the prime weapon, but even the prime weapon was released 4 updates earlier than it got buffed, update 8. Its about fkin time they bring some balance to their weapons.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Some older weapons could use another look, mastery ranks shouldn't even be a consideration.  Let's be frank here, it's a bad gating mechanic that DE either no longer really cares about or they are poor judges regarding a weapon's appropriate rank.  Doesn't take a whole lot thought to realize the problem with relying on mastery rank is that it only works if there's constant power creep in the game, and honestly, aside from the odd super weapon (Soma, Boltor Prime, Brakk, etc) there seems to be an intended average to the amount of raw power DE wants to put in a Tenno's hands with each new reinforcement.

 

The Lato and MKI Braton were brought up to good standing.  No, they're not the best,  but they can easily get through Pluto, and that's as good as any weapon really needs to get.  Some weapons dome seem to lack a place however.  The Gorgon and the Supra just come off as awkward and inaccurate bullet hoses with no real bullet points over other similar weapons (like the Braton and especially the Soma, and yes, pun intended.)  Some weapons feel a little out of place due to proxy of others.  Like... who would main a Tetra over the Hind?  Same damage, ammo is just handled differently, and with the way the Hind works, bursting is easy.  The Hind and Burston are closer side grades.  Technically in the same vein, the Boltor and Tetra would be comparable, but both are generally outclassed already by the Karak, unless you REALLY want that innate punch-through the Boltor offers.  

 

While MOST weapons are capable of taking a player through the game - endless void missions being not a point to balance around - some weapons are struggling to find their niche.  I mean, the MKI Braton might be among the weaker assault rifles, but it's also freakishly accurate for an assault rifle, and that counts for something still.  The Braton itself is a jack of all trades, it can be modded in any way to do well, but it never does great.  But then I look at guns like the Gorgon, which just seems to be a shotgun that spits out pellets one at a time, and weapons like the Boltor and Tetra, which have their own feel, but that feel isn't justified when compared to other weapons that are statistically similar, but are just more... hrm... reliable (ei, ray traced rounds.)

[AM-Bunny]

I was thinking about the new weapon exclusive mods that syndicates will be offering... Perrin Sequence will almost surely give one(s) that modify Corpus weaponry. And of those, I can't think of more deserving candidates than Supra and Flux Rifle.

 

Both are iconic weapons used by enemies, had their time in the limelight, but have been heavily overshadowed by other weapons. Making a unique mod for a weapon that's already good (like Quanta) doesn't make as much sense as making a mod for one that deserves it (like Flux Rifle).

 

So, just based on my intuition, those two weapons have the highest chance of getting a unique mod.

[Nira]

taiiat, thanks for the corrections on the recoil mechanics - my physics knowledge is rather limited. The magazine size/reload you suggested sounds perfectly reasonable, and whilst I'd considered the crit/status tweaks I wasn't sure it would fit with the Supra's aesthetic. It comes across to me as a straight-up damage dealer, without relying on crits or status.

 

I share the sentiment a number of you are expressing, that a number of the older weapons could do with looking over. Whilst I'm sure DE's collective mind is fixed on other things right now they have shown in the past they are willing to re-work older material (the sniper/Flux tweak not too long ago). I guess all we can do as a community is keep makin' noise about the things we'd like to see, frequent enough to be noticed, but sparse enough to not be considered spamming/whining.

[(PSN)LK-GriM]

Yeah I currently use it as a light show to accompany mirage and not much else. 

 

I don't think heavy machine guns work like that :P

But seriously, this mechanic would make the gun invaluable in certain situations, and I think that would be a bit too much for a buff.

Think back over a few wars. Ya they used to actually. A mechanic a lot of "future" based games was a bar that gradually filled the heavier you were on the trigger. Max it out and pshhhhhhhh....cooldown.

Lmg's used to over heat, and still did even when water cooled came out. Ever fired a real life gun, or cleaned one after putting a few hundred rounds through one? Watch FPSrussia's ak-47 bacon and eggs video on YouTube. He literally makes bacon and eggs on a smouldering hot barrel.

[kirbyfan23]

Think back over a few wars. Ya they used to actually. A mechanic a lot of "future" based games was a bar that gradually filled the heavier you were on the trigger. Max it out and pshhhhhhhh....cooldown.

Lmg's used to over heat, and still did even when water cooled came out. Ever fired a real life gun, or cleaned one after putting a few hundred rounds through one? Watch FPSrussia's ak-47 bacon and eggs video on YouTube. He literally makes bacon and eggs on a smouldering hot barrel.

I'm pretty sure that they meant the "unlimited ammo" aspect. Even the heaviest of machine guns need a belt to run through, and no belt is unlimited.

[(PSN)LK-GriM]

I'm pretty sure that they meant the "unlimited ammo" aspect. Even the heaviest of machine guns need a belt to run through, and no belt is unlimited.

Belt fed with a box=thousands of rounds. But back on topic I'm cool and agree with unlimited as long as there is a cool down mechanic to balance it out.

[EvilKam]

There's no tiers in Warframe. Any gun can be made to work just fine. 

 

There are Tiers in Warframe.  I have 5 forma on my MK1 Braton because the accuracy of 40.0 was unbeatable in assault rifles until the godweapon called Boltor Prime arrived with it's record-breaking 50 accuracy.

My MK1 could be buffed slightly with one more forma, but it's not really worth it.  The gun just runs out of killing power at the level 25-ish range.  I can bring it into a T2 mission, as long as it's a nice easy exterminate with no extra enemy spawns.  I won't bring it ever to T3 or T4 because it simply doesn't have the power.

 

The Lato and MKI Braton were brought up to good standing.  No, they're not the best,  but they can easily get through Pluto, and that's as good as any weapon really needs to get.

 

See my above paragraph for the proof that you are wrong.  You don't bring a MK1 to Pluto unless you're in it "for the lolz".  I wouldn't even bring my Karak to Pluto.  No, I couldn't carve my way to Pluto until I had the (at the time) all-powerful Soma.

 

Okay, maybe you have like, "the ability to play games".  I've been gaming since the Atari 2600, and my skills have consistently failed to improve meaningfully.  Some of us aren't the uber-gamer that you are.  I can't get better with practice, well, I can a LITTLE bit, but I'm realistically at my peak, and have been for 30 years.  Big, Powerful, Overkill weapons are how an "average person" can manage to grind through high level content.

 

Back on topic:

The Supra needs a boost so badly it hurts.  It vastly outstrips the Soma in terms of build investment, the research is expensive for a Ghost Clan (and I should know, because I paid for every single piece of it, which required the Prova), and when you're done, you have a gun that requires an astonishing pile of resources to make a gun that performs vastly less able than the Hitscan competitor named Soma, and the projectile godweapon named Boltor Prime.  7 Fieldron AND a Forma? 

 

Painfully slow windup combined with painfully slow reload and ruthlessly inaccurate fire accuracy make it a "pray and spray" weapon that means you need to get in close range with your rifle, and can be outperformed by the Boar Prime shotgun.  (Admittedly, Boar Prime is a Prime weapon, so I believe it really should be very awesome, so that's a bad example.)  I would rather take a well-modded Sobek into battle than the Supra.

 

This gun is supposed to be the corpus "heavy support" weapon, but good luck hitting a moving target with it's astonishingly slow projectiles.  By the time the Corpus make it to enemies, the other guys carrying less crappy weapons will have already killed the targets, probably.  Oh, and the Kunai knives move FASTER.  The Corpus have developed energy weapons that fire with a muzzle velocity LESS THAN A THROWING KNIFE.

 

It's like the Corpus version of the Gorgon, which is an absolutely terrible gun.  For it's cost, the Supra should be the "Corpus' Smack-down Answer" to the Gorgon.  It is not.