Do Something About Serration And Hornet Strike.

[Tr1ples1xer]

I didn't expect one. 

 

 

Joking, Joking (?) 

 

But Really. I spend too much time looking at my mod menu. 

Nice edit, just in time before warning ;)

 

Dude just change game already, obviously this game is not for you.

[akira_him]

I don't think I need to give an intelligent reply to that. 

snip

My fun in this game is to crush enemies in pieces and shoots them into honeycomb

problem?

 

the making different serration thing

see heavy caliber, people will just use all of them

still have 4 slots for elemental mods or mods to compensate some drawbacks

[Innocent_Flower]

Doesn't the game need a level scalling overhaul anyway? Why's that an excuse to not rebalance mods? 

[izzatuw]

I don't understand how your argument is that you're killing most enemies at a planet also meant for noobs... I'm practically sure every weapon in your arsenal is capable of killing an enemy in less than 2 seconds with or without Serration...

[(PSN)jwernecke]

I vote that serration and hornet strike be given their own "aura, stance" slot. That way I have more room to customize my super overpowered weapons...

Oh and get off Mercury and you will likely encounter some enemies that are a bit tougher..

Edited October 23, 2014 by (PS4)jwernecke

[akira_him]

Doesn't the game need a level scalling overhaul anyway? Why's that an excuse to not rebalance mods? 

because the overhaul did not happened

 

So go ask the devs to change the enemy scaling first, then we will discuss about this

for now the answer is : NO

[R34LM]

EDIT:

Posts like these need to be punishable in the Feedback sections. No matter how many players agree or disagree with your opinion, this is hardly more than mindless spam in terms of how much it contributes to a rational discussion. You are doing nothing to improve the state of our game.

Let me explain then.

 

These mods are made "essential" because they are very good at what they are made to do. They raise ALL damage, including physical and elemental damage. When you have a warframe/weapon/mod that is good at what it does, it is going to become seemingly required because it is effective. Serration/Hornet Strike are not required, of course, but, again, people like them a lot.

 

From the OP: "They're overpowered..." They can be, it depends on the base damage of the weapon, but it doesn't do much to an Mk-1 Braton if you want to kill things very quickly before they rip you apart in an endless T4. "...and add nothing to customisation or the game." Total fallacy. They damn well do. I want to customize my weapon to do more overall damage instead of being more accurate or being able to shoot faster. Again, they only seem like they are required mods because "more overall base damage" is very appealing compaired to "reload speed" or "ammo max".

 

As stated many times before, there is nothing stopping you from just removing the mod from your loadout. Drag and drop. You don't need to ask the devs to change parts of the game based on a singular taste.

 

So........ No.

Edited October 23, 2014 by R34LM

[Eyeless]

So go ask the devs to change the enemy scaling first, then we will discuss about this

for now the answer is : NO

 

edited

the possible solution is simple, add a slot especially for base damage slot like aura mods

it is not necessary to remove the card or to change how it works right now

BTW splint chamber is not always required (like the mutalist quanta)

 

Don't you understand that a change like this would have to go hand in hand with enemy scaling? 

 

You all aren't even keeping an open mind or even bothering to think outside the box of what a change like this would bring. All you're doing is screaming "NO" "OHMYGOD STOP" "AHHH!" 's at everyone else here trying to suggest a better system to hear anything beyond what you agree with.

 

Taking Serration, Hornet Strike, and Spoiled Strike away would come along with tweaks/reworks of enemy scaling and weapon balance. DE wouldn't simply take the mods away and leave us to fend for ourselves. Common sense here...

 

@R34LM 

The mods are good because they outperform any other side-mod and make equipping them mandatory. There's hardly any flexibility in the way you mod your weapon because of these damage mods. No margin for creativity because being creative doesn't scale and the mods don't exist for it, and this didn't seem to be what DE had initially intended and it's been yet another issue that gets brought up monthly. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Hastur609

[R34LM]

@R34LM 

The mods are good because they outperform any other side-mod and make equipping them mandatory. There's hardly any flexibility in the way you mod your weapon because of these damage mods. No margin for creativity because being creative doesn't scale and the mods don't exist for it, and this didn't seem to be what DE had initially intended and it's been yet another issue that gets brought up monthly. 

I'm going to have to argue that these mods were never mandatory. People want more damage; bottom line. You don't have to put the mods on, but, like me, it is very hard not to. It is an illusion of being mandatory. But you're right: creativty doesn't scale, very well said. But, let's face it, you can only be so creative about damage. Creativity says how you do damage, not how much.

 

When you want to be creative about how much damage you do, you really can't. It is a numbers game of base damage, burst dps and full auto dps. When you are then asked how you do damage, that's where the creativity lies.

 

"I like stomping for point blank shotgun shots."

 

"I freeze the big guys and snipe their faces off."

 

"I'll shank them......discreetly."

 

There is creativity here, but not in how much damage you do. For that, it is math, and there isn't much creativity in that.

Edited October 23, 2014 by R34LM

[akira_him]

Don't you understand that a change like this would have to go hand in hand with enemy scaling? 

 

You all aren't even keeping an open mind or even bothering to think outside the box of what a change like this would bring. All you're doing is screaming "NO" "OHMYGOD STOP" "AHHH!" 's at everyone else here trying to suggest a better system to hear anything beyond what you agree with.

 

Taking Serration, Hornet Strike, and Spoiled Strike away would come along with tweaks/reworks of enemy scaling and weapon balance. DE wouldn't simply take the mods away and leave us to fend for ourselves. Common sense here...

 

@R34LM 

The mods are good because they outperform any other side-mod and make equipping them mandatory. There's hardly any flexibility in the way you mod your weapon because of these damage mods. No margin for creativity because being creative doesn't scale and the mods don't exist for it, and this didn't seem to be what DE had initially intended and it's been yet another issue that gets brought up monthly.

Tweak enemies FIRST

Then mods

all about the correct steps

[superbot34]

well unfortunately that's something you are just going to have to deal with. warframe is centered around mods, buffing old mods and removing damage mods does nothing but make the game exponentially harder. to compensate for this increase in difficulty you then need to dumb down the rest of the content. 

 

All you would be doing is moving down in parallel, you change nothing about how weapons function in the game in the end. 

[(PSN)jwernecke]

Sorry but what exactly does spoiled strike have to do with this? Its a nightmare mod...point strike would be the best logical choice in the melee section but its only a 5 slot card. Maybe after we have puncture mods, impact mods ect to go with our buzz kill mod then we can start driving to increasing specific damage instead of damage as a whole... Taking these mods out of the game will reduce customization far more than anything else. It will simply lead to everyone using "x" warframe with "y" weapon because for t4 it is the only combo that is effective. I don't want to play a game were the gun I want to play with because it looks cool is so crappy that I can't make it work. Serration and hornet strike are game levelers...all guns can become something great and it starts with the modding process which starts with increasing base damage...

[Paradoxbomb]

Seeing as Warframes abilities are being changed from mod cards to an integral part of your Warframes, I wonder if we can expect +Damage mods for guns to follow a similar suit and become something that levels up with the player themselves, be it through gaining Mastery Ranks, leveling up each individual weapon, or some other third means of measuring progression.

 

Either way I agree that as it is, the base damage mods are a bit redundant seeing as they're pretty much a requirement for progressing to higher levels, and could afford to be reinterpreted (it's just the specifics of how they reinterpret it that DE needs to be careful, although there have been plenty of brilliant suggestions in the past by other players).

Edited October 23, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[Lorthos_Mornin]

I feel the need to add my two cents as I really do not approve of "nerf X" threads.

 

To those who feel serration, hornet strike, etc. are not necessary:

You are free to remove them from your weapons and use other mods.  Those of us who like it will continue to use it.  It is clear that some us, myself included, like to go back to early missions and rofl stomp, and that others of us like every part of the map to be difficult.  Very well, to each their own, we have the tools at our disposal to make the game have the requisite difficulty so that we may each enjoy it in our own way. However, removing these mods would erode player choice and a part of the game that has been around a long time.  A part, I feel it is necessary to add, that many players have put a significant amount of time and effort into and the removal of which would leave a very sour taste in, at the very least, my mouth.  Yes, every time a change like this is implemented there has been compensation, but frankly, the compensation can not give us back the most valuable thing we spent, time.

 

Now, to address the stated motivation for this thread: increasing creativity in mod selection.  There are more mods being added to the game all the time, and the addition of syndicates in u15 is probably going to be the greatest increase of mods since melee 2.0.  There is a great amount of choice already and with the probable introduction of very weapon specific mods there will be more choice than ever.  Additionally, as has been stated, a high level serration etc. makes weapons that would otherwise not be viable against high level content viable.  Removing these mods MIGHT result in more mod diversity, but it is my opinion that it would decrease weapon diversity, which is significantly more visible, and has spawned more "nerf X" threads than I care to count.

 

TL;DR if you don't want to use serration, etc. fine, but don't try and force your choices on the rest of us.

[Tsukinoki]

@Paradoxbomb
My only issue with having the damage level up with the gun is that when you are formaing a gun a few times it would be a drag and slow down leveling and make it quite a bit more annoying.

As it is I can forma a gun and then slap in a max leveled serration at level 7(or 4 if its potatoed) and immediately jump to higher level content for faster leveling and more game modes.
If the damage had to level with the weapon I would have to spend a lot more time grinding out the levels before I could use it on higher level content.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[(XBOX)My Names Junior]

i dont agree with this. yes its more power and it helps you kill higher stated enemys but the fact is try killing them without it. its so hard to do a t3/t4 void without 3times the damage. its for the game and helps you get rare prime stuff in the long run.

[Paradoxbomb]

@Paradoxbomb

My only issue with having the damage level up with the gun is that when you are formaing a gun a few times it would be a drag and slow down leveling and make it quite a bit more annoying.

As it is I can forma a gun and then slap in a max leveled serration at level 7(or 4 if its potatoed) and immediately jump to higher level content for faster leveling and more game modes.

If the damage had to level with the weapon I would have to spend a lot more time grinding out the levels before I could use it on higher level content.

 

Agreed, which is why I don't think tying damage to individual weapons would be the optimal choice either (I'm simply stating that it is a possibility).

[DoomsDayDan]

Remove Serration/Hornet Strike or give everything an extra mod slot because those two mods are basically essential if you want to make things become dead at any kind of reasonable rate

[SIDESTRE4M]

... yeah, right and then we remove multishot and then elementals... and what standardincludes do we remove then?

[Pacheon]

RAAAAAGE! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ RAGE OR RIOT ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

 

Simply, no.

If you don't want to be that OP - don't rank those mods up till its 10th rank.

Almost no one is playing PvP related stuff. If this is just the matter about fading this thread and its content, just simply no.

 

We already got enough nerfs in this game. My lovely Synapse.

We don't need another nerf for the damage output on serration, hornet, heavy caliber, or whatever.

[Eyeless]

-sigh-

[(XBOX)BLK THORN]

NO.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+9999 OP

 

remove or drastically rework the core 'base dmg' mods (rework them into mods with tradeoffs if not remove them completely), compensate ppl with previously ranked mods

 

all weapons now gain +5% base dmg per rank 1-30, thus +150% dmg at rank 30, now all weapons (prim/2nd/melee) have 1 extra mod slot (not game breaking)

 

similar treatment to multishot (dont remove, but rework to have tradeoffs, not be 'mandatory/default')

 

in the long term, this would be SO MUCH BETTER for the game, the DEv team knows this, they just aren't standing up to the QQ community about it and they're afraid of the financial backlash, which is understandable, but they could deal with this in a smart transparent way with some good PR

 

mods like Heavy calibur and Spoiled strike are still fine, yes they add base dmg, but with a tradeoff, and elemental mods and the physical trait mods (impact/slash/punct) are also fine, as they encourage build variety [even though another good argument is that there should be flat dmg mods out there as well, to have even more build variety, vs percentage based mods]

 

the core base dmg mods (serration, hornet strike, point blank, pressure point) hurt build variety and are a bad design choice

 

the sooner DE rips the bandaid off and deals with the infection underneath the better, the longer they wait, the more of a pain it is going to be =/

Edited October 24, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Dasmir]

Nerf mandatory mods and others will take their place.

 

dealt with it.

[Innocent_Flower]

Nerf mandatory mods and others will take their place.

 

dealt with it.

That's the idea.