Aciszen Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) After crafting my Grakata and some testing, I can't find a single advantage to this gun. I've talked to a few people on the council, and others agree aswell. People on the wikia also agree. The damage is low, it's accuracy and as a result range is bad, clip size isn't any different from other rifles (ex. boltor, any braton, gorgon, average crit, average reload, and no polarities. The MK1 which is a pretty strong starting weapon is free, and beats this gun in practically every category. The only supposed advantage is its fire rate. Which in my opinion, isn't even an advantage due to the weapon burning ammo faster. This is why I propose a buff to the Grakata. I also think this is the opportunity to implement a new stealth weapon. If a suppressor is given (maybe not actually add the model but just give the effect), this weapon will have its niche among the other rifles. It'll also justify the low base damage. It can also contest with the paris in that it has less power against single targets but better sustained damage against a group. Also, who wouldn't like a suppressed smg? And before some people come here saying "o slap some mods on and itll be good/l2p", that argument is horrible; please stop. If a weapon doesn't have a single strength, any weapon (in this case all) will be better with those same mods. [Edit] I made this new thread because I didn't want the suppressor suggestion to be lost in the other thread. [Edit] If you would like this weapon buffed, but not suppressed feel free to post your ideas too. I like the play style of this weapon and I just want it to be more viable. If you don't think it needs a buff, make a post why, but make sure you're prepared to flesh out your reasons. TL;DR Grakata bad, needs buff, outclassed completely. Edited April 21, 2013 by Aciszen
hakma1 Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 I agree, I hate this gun and regret wasting time building it. It's like a useless version of the braton made by the grineer. Plus i wouldn't mind having an end game secondary or even primary because i'm getting bored of the Hek.
MrGrae Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 To be honest I quite like it, mainly for the aesthetic, the feel and look of the gun is cool, I like shooting it and I like the crazy recoil, gives it a more organic feel. Though I do agree, the pathetic base damage, large spread and recoil all together make it somewhat ineffective, this is a problem and I agree it should be buffed. As for the "Throw some mods on" argument, it's still valid since mods are pretty much the centerpoint of the weapon and warframe system, so you can't really discount that. But I agree that it shouldn't be the ONLY argument for a weapon or frame.
LordofTibera Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Agreed. I personally dont subscribe to the "deals less dmg, hits more often" versus "deals more dmg, hits less often" balance. I have always felt that like TF2 the weapons should each be good at doing somehing sognificant. For example, in TF2 the weapon called the Liberty Launcher does the same dmg as the base rocket launcher, but the trade off kd that it loses 25% clip to have the projectile fire faster. It promotes subjective choice! Idk if this makes sense to ppl but i always look for this in games.
Aciszen Posted April 21, 2013 Author Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) To be honest I quite like it, mainly for the aesthetic, the feel and look of the gun is cool, I like shooting it and I like the crazy recoil, gives it a more organic feel. Though I do agree, the pathetic base damage, large spread and recoil all together make it somewhat ineffective, this is a problem and I agree it should be buffed. As for the "Throw some mods on" argument, it's still valid since mods are pretty much the centerpoint of the weapon and warframe system, so you can't really discount that. But I agree that it shouldn't be the ONLY argument for a weapon or frame. I agree with you in that it's a fun weapon to use, and that's also why I love the Boar even though my Hek outclasses it. I just want it to have a niche. As for the mods, yeah they in a way define how effective you are, but they are what they are. They buff the gun or warframes innate properties, but the Grakata's properties are pretty lackluster. :P Edited April 21, 2013 by Aciszen
MrGrae Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 I just want it to have a niche. I agree there. Exactly how to improve it, I dunno, I'm not a dev, I have no idea what may or may not screw the balance, so I'll leave it up to DE to decide.
tsubasakuroi Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Got this thing to Rank 30. Glad I don't have to use it anymore because I was very underwhelmed by it. I'm not really keen on making the Grakata suppressed though. I'd rather just see it have an absurdly high crit rate if it were to be buffed...
Reavenstriek Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 just not that if OUR Grakata gets buffed so does the Grineers. Just a point to remember
Hezekiah Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 The Gernier can't even modulate their voiceboxes, what makes you think they can fine tune a weapon. Personally I like this gun, adds a level of difficulty that was missing with my Gorgon or Hek. Sure it is outclassed, but it's new and pretty.
Sherbniz Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Well, this now being the standard Grineer sidearm, maybe it should come with a perk that is explainable in this context. Why would the Grineer issue silenced weapon to their safety personell? I would rather like to see the reason this gun is being used by most of the Grineer forces... what technical hi-jinks makes this their sidearm of choice? Suggestions: ●Recoil Reduces/Accuracy increases while firing. Much like the Gorgon accelerates it's fire rate, special Grineer stabilizers would increase the accuracy of this gun as it's being fired. This would allow for many highly accurate shots at the expense of spread shots during the wind-up time. -OR- ●It regenerates Ammunition. The tradeoff for being as bullet-hungry as it is, could be a slight ammo regeneration factor. -OR- ●?% Chance to not use Ammunition on a few shots. Another tradeoff for the bullet-hose design. -OR- ●Comes with native Puncture. A good ammount of native puncture could help deal with large crowds. -OR- ●Slightly Homing Shots This explains why lancers can shoot so damn well! -ETC-
LordofTibera Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 just not that if OUR Grakata gets buffed so does the Grineers. Just a point to remember I feel this is invalid because the devs can give a powered-down version to the enemy because they know there will be swarms of them.
Kadishia Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 People should do research before crafting/buying the gun. I noticed the fire rate and the terrible fire power. It like a SMG.
LordofTibera Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Got this thing to Rank 30. Glad I don't have to use it anymore because I was very underwhelmed by it. I'm not really keen on making the Grakata suppressed though. I'd rather just see it have an absurdly high crit rate if it were to be buffed... Wow. This thing just came out and you maxed it? What's your secret lol? I've had my Hek for months and it still is at 24. Given, I'm not playing this all the time, but often enough...
Vaskadar Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 I'd like it to have an absurd critical chance and absurd base critical damage, along with a 'V' polarity slot. That'd compensate for its utter per-shot weakness, much as the fast-attack Zoren did at one point.
Bitfly Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Stealth ability wouldn't suit this weapon very well. What could make a great difference on this gun is adding some base crit rate/damage
Aciszen Posted April 21, 2013 Author Posted April 21, 2013 People should do research before crafting/buying the gun. I noticed the fire rate and the terrible fire power. It like a SMG. It just came out, we gotta research it somehow. I did check the wikia, but that doesn't tell me crit chance or multipliers. Buying it and testing was the best way since in game stats can be deceptive.
Aciszen Posted April 21, 2013 Author Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) Maybe suppressed isn't the most popular way to go for it, but I'm glad that we can agree on this weapon needing a buff. Also, I like the high crit chance/multiplier and the higher accuracy, the more you shoot suggestions Edited April 21, 2013 by Aciszen
LunarWind Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 I love the Grakata in everything except performance. The look, the feel, the sound, and especially the recoil. When you fire this thing full-auto it feels like you're sitting between two trains going full speed inches from your screen, and they're loaded to bear with massage chairs and jumping beans. The performance, however, needs something. What if the bullets had damage drop off over range? Is that even possible? I love the spray-happy nature of the weapon, and I even appreciate the need for low damage per shot to achieve this feeling. OH! I got it! An innate +100% (or more) to ammo carried! We have innate armor pierce, why not have other innate effects? I'd love to see this thing get a crazy amount of back-up ammo, or x10 ammo from drops. Right now I like the clip-size and fire-rate, and feel like the base damage needs to be low to preserve the 'feel' or 'flavor' of the Grakata. Also, bonus points, giving it insane +%maximum ammo carried wouldn't make the Grineer version any more powerful. I definitely see the ammo being the best area of this weapon to tweak. Let us change the reload rates and damage with mods, but right now it just burns through ammo WAY too fast to be useful "out of the box" with no mods. I also like the idea of ammo regeneration, or allowing the Grakata to use ANY AND ALL ammo pick-ups, rather than just Rifle. However, those may be harder to code/implement than a simple +maximum ammo carried passive.
iexbrood Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) I would like innate multishot or something of the sort which would make it hail in the direction you're firing in. (something something bullets split apart into more bullets) Edited April 21, 2013 by iexbrood
mmSNAKE Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Please don't mention TF2 weapons. There are two ways they work when compared to stock: 1) they are a gimmick and they suck 2) they are a complete upgrade. Example of the latter: Ubersaw (hell almost every medic weapon not counting his secondaries), Direct hit (yes it is an upgrade, a skilled player will laugh and air shot you all day long), reserve shooter, degreaser, axtinguisher, flare gun, Atomizer, cleaver, enforcer, dead ringer( >_<), ambassador, widowmaker (operation infinite ammo) it goes on and on. When you get into serious competitive play it pretty much all gets banned outside of few items. Players end up playing stock.
LordofTibera Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Please don't mention TF2 weapons. There are two ways they work when compared to stock: 1) they are a gimmick and they suck 2) they are a complete upgrade. Example of the latter: Ubersaw (hell almost every medic weapon not counting his secondaries), Direct hit (yes it is an upgrade, a skilled player will laugh and air shot you all day long), reserve shooter, degreaser, axtinguisher, flare gun, Atomizer, cleaver, enforcer, dead ringer( >_<), ambassador, widowmaker (operation infinite ammo) it goes on and on. When you get into serious competitive play it pretty much all gets banned outside of few items. Players end up playing stock. I don't want to get too into this, but I'm kind of offended by this...the TF2 weapons are never a straight upgrade. The point of the weapons is to offer the player a choice instead of showing them that the Grakata fires fast but is completely outclassed by everything else. I'm also not talking about serious competitive play here. I'm talking about the layman--the average gamer who's playing Warframe. Sure, there are optimal ways to sort of minmax your loadout, but you gotta remember: this game appeals to more than that.
LunarWind Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 This isn't TF2, or 1, or TF anything. Back on topic, preserve the feel of the gun with it's high-volume low-damage shots and world shaking recoil. Innate multi-shot could be nice. Innate +ammo maximum would be nice. Ammo regeneration? If possible, could also work. We need it to be a more consistently useful primary weapon without needing mods. Currently, un-modded, it takes a bit too much to kill each enemy and runs out of ammo insanely fast.
LordofTibera Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 This isn't TF2, or 1, or TF anything. Back on topic, preserve the feel of the gun with it's high-volume low-damage shots and world shaking recoil. Innate multi-shot could be nice. Innate +ammo maximum would be nice. Ammo regeneration? If possible, could also work. We need it to be a more consistently useful primary weapon without needing mods. Currently, un-modded, it takes a bit too much to kill each enemy and runs out of ammo insanely fast. You're missing my point! I was just saying that LIKE TF2 I feel that warframe should adopt a similar policy with regards to making weapons unique instead of just trading speed for damage and calling it balance.
mmSNAKE Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 They may not seem as a straight upgrade on paper, but when you count player abilities... Widowmaker: as long as you hit, you never have to reload, or never will run out of ammo. That sounds like an upgrade to me. Direct Hit: they reduce your splash radius...so they can guarantee you get a direct hit. The speed of the rocket is so fast that I have to try to miss. I play Tribes a lot and projectile prediction is second nature to me. Using this gun is hilarious. Ubersaw: lol, is there any other medic melee that gets used over this? The benefit is just too good. Axtinguisher: crits on demand? Flare gun: ditto Reserve shooter: scout jumps you mini crit. I mean it goes on and on. I have a rather...large amount of time on TF2. When you really get down to it, to get a proper balance you have to go with stock gear mostly. Also when you talk about min maxing your load out, that does not fall into "average" play. I do agree on the Grakata, it's quite bad.
LunarWind Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) You're missing my point! I was just saying that LIKE TF2 I feel that warframe should adopt a similar policy with regards to making weapons unique instead of just trading speed for damage and calling it balance. TF2 Talk Guys, still isn't TF2, still isn't a topic about ALL weapons and their designs. This is about Grakata balancing and improvement suggestions. Thank you. Do you have feedback about our ideas? Innate multi-shot or innate +ammo carry? Anything of your own to add? Edited April 21, 2013 by LunarWind
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