Grakata Buff

[Felandi]

I am just saying that those are some possible solutions (I like the recoil too), implementing any one of those would bring it more in line with the other weapons, and implementing two or three would make it an excellent gun. Past that it would just be ridiculously OP.

 

We are now the society for the preservation of the Grakata recoil!

[Vaskadar]

Giving it a 10 or 30% multishot increase, or giving it a 0.2 base critical chance with 2.0x crit multiplier would be good. It'd be that paradoxical weapon that has a strange damage pattern and DPS. Massive potential for stupidly high power. Perhaps bring its damage up to 10 or 11.

 

Since it uses up ammo extremely quickly, however, I'd suggest pairing it up with the Kraken (an aesthetically similar, but far more ammo-economic weapon).

Edited April 22, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Bitfly]

I have this gun maxed and fully modded, supercharged.

 

It's quite good and I like how it shoots (been waiting for this kind of weapon since I started on Warframe).

Obviously, no gun will perform to your standards if you keep comparing everything to Hek but that doesn't make this bad.

I'm not going to try defend this gun, just trying to tell people who want to give it a go that it's not a complete waste if you're into SMG types.

[YoRHa_8S]

We need another base ammo maximum for this weapon. Larger. That's for sure. It burns ammo twice as fast as Braton does with the same effect.

[Aciszen]

I have this gun maxed and fully modded, supercharged.

 

It's quite good and I like how it shoots (been waiting for this kind of weapon since I started on Warframe).

Obviously, no gun will perform to your standards if you keep comparing everything to Hek but that doesn't make this bad.

I'm not going to try defend this gun, just trying to tell people who want to give it a go that it's not a complete waste if you're into SMG types.

 

Unfortunately, we haven't even started comparing it to the Hek. We're comparing it to the MK1. The Grakata costs 40k vs MK1's free, it also takes 24 hours vs any other weapon's 12 (not that big of an issue, although what's it making us wait for).

 

It's only advantage which is fire rate is double edged due to ammo drops not being able to keep up.

 

You could buy ammo boxes, but who'd spend 40k plus gas money on a tricycle.

[Aciszen]

A lot of Grakata threads being started, so I will bump this to keep the suggestions coming here instead of being scattered.

[Nuntium]

A lot of Grakata threads being started, so I will bump this to keep the suggestions coming here instead of being scattered.

 

Probably going to be getting more here, the other big one got locked.

[Vaskadar]

This weapon is indicative of a flaw in the overall design of rifles and ammunition. It is also a good sign that the devs are taking into consideration that nerfing is always bad, so they make a weapon that starts off crappy and receives a buff instead of being ez-mode to begin with, so that they don't over-react and overnerf a weapon. Balancing is pretty difficult, but if a weapon's DPS is lower than other weapons of comparable cost and chews through ammo faster, then it's a problem.

 

It needs to be cranked up to 11-12 damage, given a V polarity slot, and have its crit chance increased for its DPS to surpass the BRATON, which costs 30,000 less credits, less resources, and time to acquire.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Vaskadar

[Bitfly]

This weapon is indicative of a flaw in the overall design of rifles and ammunition. It is also a good sign that the devs are taking into consideration that nerfing is always bad, so they make a weapon that starts off crappy and receives a buff instead of being ez-mode to begin with, so that they don't over-react and overnerf a weapon. Balancing is pretty difficult, but if a weapon's DPS is lower than other weapons of comparable cost and chews through ammo faster, then it's a problem.

 

It needs to be cranked up to 11-12 damage, given a V polarity slot, and have its crit chance increased for its DPS to surpass the BRATON, which costs 30,000 less credits, less resources, and time to acquire.

Tbh it doesn't need all that. The damage is fine, perhaps a polarity slot but definitely more crit rate.

Each weapon has its uses, and being a very ammo ineffecient weapon, you won't be taking this weapon if you generally

ONLY use your rifle for kills when you play. Though, if you use your pistol and melee weapon just as much you won't have ammo issues. 

In fact, you will find the gun very effective at what it does - taking down any target quickly (DPS is actually really high) and small groups.

[Vilesavant]

Some good ideas in here for certain. I do like some of the talk about making the weapon unique. I was wondering about something I think that just screams -Grineer-. How about the rounds are explosive tipped. So what this would do is make is so these explosive, frangible rounds are more effective against unarmored targets (such as infested/corpus since these are technically the 'enemy' of the Grineer). Now we could even go so far as to state that these rounds also have a "personal aoe" effect which would be effective against tightly packed enemies, but I'm not sure if thats too far or not. I think this gives the weapon its own unique feel (which some folks are requesting) and could make it a contender. Sometimes you need the right tool for the right job. I've already noticed this trend in some of the gear. Though mods can make a weapon do what you want some are passively better when used against a certain faction. Just a thought.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Vilesavant

[MoonicusMaximus]

Having a high crit rate with a polarity slot would be the only things that I would add to the weapon; the rate of fire justifies the damage, and to be honest the gun does great for its intended purpose of low TTK at the expense of massive ammo consumption. It's a fantastic weapon for short-term burst-damage DPS that does wonders against normal enemies, but it does not have the high long-term DPS of other weapons like the Gorgon. As it is now, I can kill maybe 6-8 Grineer per 60magazine utilizing burst fire, and while the Grakata is capable of shredding even heavy units in seconds (if you're aiming at the head), doing so expends a lot of ammunition.

 

Having a high crit rate, made more valid with crit chance and crit damage mods, would cement this weapon as a critical monster, the inherent nature of all those multiple, fast-firing rounds meaning more crits and more potential for higher damage when crits DO pop off. And although some, including myself, do not have a problem with ammo consumption through moderation and the use of other weapons, it would not hurt to look at how the ammo system for this gun works; replenishing 600+ ammo on 20bullet pickups is very tedious.

Edited April 23, 2013 by MoonicusMaximus

[Dredj]

Finally my Grakata is level 30, did an Alert with level 40 Grineer using 60% Serration and low levels of all the elemental damage and I was absolutely wrecking. I then wondered if Elemental mods would go off base weapon damage or if Serration would buff elemental damage, so I took off Serration and went with Split Chamber and filled the every last point maxing the 3 element mods and it still wrecked 40+ Grineer and Corpus. So I decided to max all my element mods to use all 30 points, so 90% Cryo, 90% Hellfire and 75% Stormbringer and then the Grakata went sucky, taking a full clip to take down a 40 Grineer, and I don't have the mods to go back to my initial setup.

 

Good gun, not my favourite, needs a specific mods to work. Can't run this gun like a Gorgon.

 

Does it need buffs? well all rifles need a quality of life buff imo, not just the Grakata. Specifically for the Grakata though, unless DE adds a new gimmick just for this gun like a built in Rifle Scavenger, then a V polarity slot would be great so it can slot 90% Split Chamber and mid level elemental damage, without Super-Charging it.

[VieuxPappy]

I was really exited with this new gun, I thought people complained before getting the grakata to a high enough lvl. So I supercharged mine thinking that it would stop from sucking.... well... I still regret it. I just hope they buff it in some way either giving it a niche or something else :/

Sad tenno here.

[MoonicusMaximus]

Finally my Grakata is level 30, did an Alert with level 40 Grineer using 60% Serration and low levels of all the elemental damage and I was absolutely wrecking. I then wondered if Elemental mods would go off base weapon damage or if Serration would buff elemental damage, so I took off Serration and went with Split Chamber and filled the every last point maxing the 3 element mods and it still wrecked 40+ Grineer and Corpus. So I decided to max all my element mods to use all 30 points, so 90% Cryo, 90% Hellfire and 75% Stormbringer and then the Grakata went sucky, taking a full clip to take down a 40 Grineer, and I don't have the mods to go back to my initial setup.

 

Good gun, not my favourite, needs a specific mods to work. Can't run this gun like a Gorgon.

 

Does it need buffs? well all rifles need a quality of life buff imo, not just the Grakata. Specifically for the Grakata though, unless DE adds a new gimmick just for this gun like a built in Rifle Scavenger, then a V polarity slot would be great so it can slot 90% Split Chamber and mid level elemental damage, without Super-Charging it.

 

To my knowledge, element damage builds off of your BASE weapon damage, which is INCREASED by serration. So ideally, you want to raise Serration to max, as all your elemental damage % will be added to that serration-increased number.

[Dasmir]

I was really exited with this new gun, I thought people complained before getting the grakata to a high enough lvl. So I supercharged mine thinking that it would stop from sucking.... well... I still regret it. I just hope they buff it in some way either giving it a niche or something else :/

Sad tenno here.

 

thats happen when you trust the whiteknights..

[VieuxPappy]

thats happen when you trust the whiteknights..

 Whiteknights?

[mmSNAKE]

To my knowledge, element damage builds off of your BASE weapon damage, which is INCREASED by serration. So ideally, you want to raise Serration to max, as all your elemental damage % will be added to that serration-increased number.

 

It's not sadly. Elemental damage take it off your base, just like Serration does.  Elemental damages just add a separate number tick, while Serration/Point Blank/Hornet Strike/Pressure Point add the number to the normal damage value.

Edited April 24, 2013 by mmSNAKE

[Dredj]

To my knowledge, element damage builds off of your BASE weapon damage, which is INCREASED by serration. So ideally, you want to raise Serration to max, as all your elemental damage % will be added to that serration-increased number.

Not according to my testing. My 60% Serration on top of 9 = 14 damage, in Caloris I was headshotting Grineer for 14 damage, so that's right. 90% of 9 is 8 damage, and my 90% Cryo mod was doing 8 damage in the same mission.

 

So my testing shows Serration is having no effect on the damage of Elemental mods, so suppose you just set up all 3 elements you have 9 damage base, 8(90%) damage Cryo, 8(90%) damage Fire and 7 Electric(75%) = 32 damage per 1 bullet added all up. You just can't do anything else unless Super-Charged because of running out of points, but suppose you now Split Chamber this, that's 64 damage per bullet = 3840 damage per clip and you can deplete a Grakata clip how fast?

 

A max Serration on this Grakata brings the damage up to 24 and takes up 12 points, so might as well use Gorgon if Serration is what you want to use. Grakata's base damage is to low even for Serration to soley buff it to great damage and Piercing Hit at max is only 60% so an Elemental mod will outperform it.

 

The Grakata is an elemental launcher, this is how you buff the performance of this weapon.

[Engelheim]

I think this weapon has much potential but the ammo max and damage are its shortcomings as others have stated. I'd love to see this weapon buffed.

[MoonicusMaximus]

I see, I was wrong then.

 

If this is the case, does crit damage build off of the serration-boosted white-damage number? Or merely the base?

[mmSNAKE]

I see, I was wrong then.

 

If this is the case, does crit damage build off of the serration-boosted white-damage number? Or merely the base?

 

 

I haven't tested this, however I am guessing it does. I've seen my gun yellow crit for different numbers without me adding crit damage mods. I can't be sure since I didn't test. But if I would take a guess I'd say yes.

 

Sadly not many guns are viable for a crit build.

[austinrelis]

After crafting my Grakata and some testing, I can't find a single advantage to this gun. I've talked to a few people on the council, and others agree aswell. People on the wikia also agree.

 

The damage is low, it's accuracy and as a result range is bad, clip size isn't any different from other rifles (ex. boltor, any braton, gorgon, average crit, average reload, and no polarities. The MK1 which is a pretty strong starting weapon is free, and beats this gun in practically every category.

 

The only supposed advantage is its fire rate. Which in my opinion, isn't even an advantage due to the weapon burning ammo faster.

 

This is why I propose a buff to the Grakata. I also think this is the opportunity to implement a new stealth weapon.

If a suppressor is given (maybe not actually add the model but just give the effect), this weapon will have its niche among the other rifles. It'll also justify the low base damage. It can also contest with the paris in that it has less power against single targets but better sustained damage against a group.

 

Also, who wouldn't like a suppressed smg?

 

 

And before some people come here saying "o slap some mods on and itll be good/l2p", that argument is horrible; please stop.

 

If a weapon doesn't have a single strength, any weapon (in this case all) will be better with those same mods.

 

 

[Edit] I made this new thread because I didn't want the suppressor suggestion to be lost in the other thread.

 

[Edit] If you would like this weapon buffed, but not suppressed feel free to post your ideas too. I like the play style of this weapon and I just want it to be more viable.

 

If you don't think it needs a buff, make a post why, but make sure you're prepared to flesh out your reasons.

 

TL;DR  Grakata bad, needs buff, outclassed completely.

Although I have an easy time killing with it, a buff would only make it easier.

[Jaon]

Not sure if anyones said this already, but suppressor wouldnt work. The moment you did damage to the enemy without killing them they would be alerted. 

[VieuxPappy]

Not sure if anyones said this already, but suppressor wouldnt work. The moment you did damage to the enemy without killing them they would be alerted. 

True, as soon as an enemy has been damaged but not killed, everybody knows you're here. The stealth system (or a redo of how the AI knows your position) needs a lot of work. At the moment, you can go stealth only with Paris IF and only IF you kill the enemies with a single arrow (which is impossible on a guneer or commander unless they are severly underlvled to you)

[Vaskadar]

Tbh it doesn't need all that. The damage is fine, perhaps a polarity slot but definitely more crit rate.

Each weapon has its uses, and being a very ammo ineffecient weapon, you won't be taking this weapon if you generally

ONLY use your rifle for kills when you play. Though, if you use your pistol and melee weapon just as much you won't have ammo issues. 

In fact, you will find the gun very effective at what it does - taking down any target quickly (DPS is actually really high) and small groups.

 

Calculated DPS is still lower than Braton, unfortunately. Grakata has 9(Damage)x20.0(Fire Rate) = 180. Braton's got 17(Damage)x11.3(Fire Rate) = 192.1

 

Needs a damage buff by 1 point to bring the DPS up to 200, justifying the low damage and high fire rate (And the high cost).

 

Granted, it drops targets pretty damn fast, but you have to be going for headshots and short bursts pretty much all of the time.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Vaskadar