New Excalibur Changes - Developer Workshop Thread A Waste Of Time.

[MDRLOz]

Now I have just been reading update 15 and it is amazing.

 

Here are the Excalibur changes:

Excalibur Changes:

• Super Jump: Super Jump will now add invisibility to Excalibur while in air. Additionally, Super Jump will cause a small radial stun to all enemies around Excalibur when performed, similar to the way Ash’s Smoke Screen works.

• Radial Blind: No longer able to affect enemies in rooms separated by walls. To encourage and facilitate different gameplay styles (like stealth), enemies aware of Excalibur within a few seconds, or enemies that Excalibur can see, will also be affected.
• Radial Javelin:  All enemies within radius of this ability will now be hit with a javelin.  Instead of having this ability radiate out from Excalibur, javelins will now spawn directly around opponents. Javelins will optimize to find a point on each enemy that is safe to be hit, bypassing enemies that may be holding shields or otherwise in cover. There is also no longer a target maximum for this ultimate, meaning anyone in the radius will be an eligible target. Additionally, if the javelin does not kill the enemy, each target that survives will be put into stun for a brief period of time.

 

However I am shocked that the Excalibur changes have gone ahead exactly as outlined in this thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321607-excalibur-and-you-a-guide-to-upcoming-changes/

 

The thread is now locked so no more feedback is possible. There was a great amount of people in the thread asking for some changes to the Slash dash ability. 

 

Was it simply a mistake that this thread was allowing replies, and this thread was merely a statement rather that an open forum for people to voice their opinions. 

 

If that thread was looked at then you would see that the consensus was that slash dash needed some changes. A common suggestion was that slash dash could add/extend the melee combo multiplier. A simple change but would let veteran players get some endgame use from it without affecting its power or new player useage. 

 

Now I hope a new thread for feedback appears soon now the patch is live and everyone can try the changes and give new feedback. However I would hazard a strong guess that people will still hold the same opinions that they had in that thread. 

 

So what was the point of letting us flap our gums about our concerns when it was not considered before the release of the update? 

 

My apology if I sound frustrated but I am simply passionate about Excalibur and it makes me sad that it appears the communities feedback was ignored so easily. 

 

 

Edit: When the above thread was locked why was it not closed on a DE post saying something like.

• "Thank you for your feedback. We see your concerns. There will a new feedback thread once the abilities go live and we will look again at all feedback once that has run for a while."

At least then it would like it mattered. 

 

Edit 2: Also want to point out before anyone see it that yes Excalibur did get an interesting syndicate mod. 

• Excalibur: Radial Javelin: Furious Javelin: Each enemy hit will increase Excalibur’s melee damage by x for y seconds.

However this firstly is not on slash dash the ability everyone is asking for the changes and secondly is on an ability that was just buffed and had its utility added. So it gets a mod to push it further but slash dash must remain pointless? 

Edited October 24, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Sixty5]

I'd imagine that excalibur will be continued to be looked into. Changes may or may not be coming.

 

On the other hand, his new Augment mod will definitely give him a nice buff, it is one of the better ones after all.

[zerogear5]

nothing feels wrong with slash dash it isnt op and it has 2 good uses: clearing low level enemies and covering distance.

[RahuHordika]

It's usual of DE, whenever incoming significant changes are mentioned they are put in the game, simple as that. So far nothing anyone has said has made them change their minds for the implementation.

I don't know if it's to gather feedback for post-implementation or just to give us false hopes, but I seriously, seriously hope it's the former.

clearing low level enemies

Yeah.... no, an ability should be constant across all levels.

Edited October 24, 2014 by RahuStalker

[CTanGod]

I doubt they'll be doing anymore changes on Excalibur for 2 simple reasons:

 

1. He's meant to be a means for new players to get into the game (hence why the other starter frames haven't received changes and why their abilities are dated in comparisons to newer frames)

 

2. He was hard mode for new players (since they don't read anything these days) and super easy mode for advanced players (which shouldn't have been an issue considering other frames do relativly the same thing)

 

If anything they might release in the future a way for us to relive the old days of blind stuff and then procced to hack it to bits if they release Syndicate mods that remove line of sight from Radial blind (which I doubt because I believe DE has stopped caring about their poster boy seeing how he doesn't sell as good as Rhino or Nova hence why he isn't ON THE DAMN ARCHWING IMAGE ! ).

[MDRLOz]

I'd imagine that excalibur will be continued to be looked into. Changes may or may not be coming.

 

On the other hand, his new Augment mod will definitely give him a nice buff, it is one of the better ones after all.

Yeah I do hope further changes will be examined post patch. However there has been no mention of this. 

New augment is Ok but why not just put it on slash dash? 

 

nothing feels wrong with slash dash it isnt op and it has 2 good uses: clearing low level enemies and covering distance.

We really need an ability that has a main job of clearing low level enemies? Back in Damage 1.0 I would rather slash dash 4 times that radial javelin once as I know I will hit more targets. Now they have fixed radial javelin so why do I need a slash dash to clear "LOW" level enemies. I also have weapons for that. Covering distance? Dude, do you even copter? Seriously though that is a poor ability if that is all its for. 

[Sixty5]

I'd also like to play around with Excal a bit to see what the changes have actually done to him, it could be that they are enough to improve him.

 

Slash dash has always been a pretty solid power, and now with his melee form buffs, it should work better as a gap closer

[Buzkyl]

I doubt they'll be doing anymore changes on Excalibur for 2 simple reasons:

 

1. He's meant to be a means for new players to get into the game (hence why the other starter frames haven't received changes and why their abilities are dated in comparisons to newer frames)

 

2. He was hard mode for new players (since they don't read anything these days) and super easy mode for advanced players (which shouldn't have been an issue considering other frames do relativly the same thing)

 

If anything they might release in the future a way for us to relive the old days of blind stuff and then procced to hack it to bits if they release Syndicate mods that remove line of sight from Radial blind (which I doubt because I believe DE has stopped caring about their poster boy seeing how he doesn't sell as good as Rhino or Nova hence why he isn't ON THE DAMN ARCHWING IMAGE ! ).

 

 

1. Mag and Volt has received PLENTY of changes in the past and both were starter frames, infact i believe volt is a starter frame, and it's a dam solid frame.

 

2. Being  a starter frame in no reason to be lackluster, not an excuse

 

 

Also

 

[Vargras]

Because once changes are made, they're never, ever looked at and modified again.

 

That's definitely never happened before. Nope. Definitely not with Frost.

[Buzkyl]

Because once changes are made, they're never, ever looked at and modified again.

 

That's definitely never happened before. Nope. Definitely not with Frost.

 

 

Frost is not your best example as well....look at him now.

 

 

Rhino would be better as seeing him in closed beta and now he;s 2 different frames.

[RahuHordika]

it should work better as a gap closer

Thing is, with many movement option being given to us, the ability itself may as well become irrelevant if in the end if that ends up being it's sole purpose.

Besides out of all of it's clones Slash Dash it meant to be the more directly offensive one out of all the abilities, and while a raw increase in damage would not help it does need something helpful.

[CTanGod]

1. Mag and Volt has received PLENTY of changes in the past and both were starter frames, infact i believe volt is a starter frame, and it's a dam solid frame.

 

2. Being  a starter frame in no reason to be lackluster, not an excuse

 

 

 

 

1. Mag's changes have been for the worse imo new Pull does more wrong than good unless you are in rooms full of obstacles to have the pulled enemies ram into and Crush is useless as for Volt they mostly touched his Shield some for better some for worse.(last I checked)

 

2. Then explain to me why you don't see more people run around with the starter frames in high level ? They are solid and good but people just don't use them. Why ? Because they are lackluster, all they can do other frames can do better or easier and it's not being adressed in anyway.

 

I'll end my small rant here (mostly because I enjoyed playing Excalibur before the changes and now I can't feel but being turned into a spam 4 monkey) and sorry if I sound like a dumb person, it's just how it is. (I admit I may be wrong in some aspects but I'm personatly tired of seeing everybody and their mother run with Nova and Rhino and I'd defend any niche that allows me to avoid playing those 2 frames.)

[Buzkyl]

1. Mag's changes have been for the worse imo new Pull does more wrong than good unless you are in rooms full of obstacles to have the pulled enemies ram into and Crush is useless as for Volt they mostly touched his Shield some for better some for worse.(last I checked)

 

2. Then explain to me why you don't see more people run around with the starter frames in high level ? They are solid and good but people just don't use them. Why ? Because they are lackluster, all they can do other frames can do better or easier and it's not being adressed in anyway.

 

I'll end my small rant here (mostly because I enjoyed playing Excalibur before the changes and now I can't feel but being turned into a spam 4 monkey) and sorry if I sound like a dumb person, it's just how it is. (I admit I may be wrong in some aspects but I'm personatly tired of seeing everybody and their mother run with Nova and Rhino and I'd defend any niche that allows me to avoid playing those 2 frames.)

It's fine if you disagree on pull, that's your opinion and i can respect that.

 

How ever using popularity as a basis of arguing a point is fallacious,

 

why don't i see more Hydroid?

More Zephyr?

More banshee

 

The above are solid frames, people have thier preferences. if every frame did the same thing there would be no variety. Ash,  a frame you'd rarely see will now become  extremely popular now because he has team invisibility.

[Legault]

It's usual of DE, whenever incoming significant changes are mentioned they are put in the game, simple as that. So far nothing anyone has said has made them change their minds for the implementation.

I don't know if it's to gather feedback for post-implementation or just to give us false hopes, but I seriously, seriously hope it's the former.

Yeah.... no, an ability should be constant across all levels.

List one damage ability that is constant through all levels.

 

 

 

Please think before you whine.

[CTanGod]

It's fine if you disagree on pull, that's your opinion and i can respect that.

 

How ever using popularity as a basis of arguing a point is fallacious,

 

why don't i see more Hydroid?

More Zephyr?

More banshee

 

The above are solid frames, people have thier preferences. if every frame did the same thing there would be no variety. Ash,  a frame you'd rarely see will now become  extremely popular now because he has team invisibility.

I used popularity as a means to show their viability since usually the masses are what counts, the fact that few people use certain objects or items in both games and real life means that it's either ineffective or bad (the items in question). Either way It's my opinion and all I wanted to do was voice my concers and desires for promoting more varried play in the game thus making it better (atleast that's my opinion) and I respect everyones opinions aswell. Now let us end this argument on peacefull terms, shall we ?

[Latronico]

I feel you. So much hype to be allowed to discuss about Excalibur changes for what? Just put them into the game as they were decided by Devs? 

I don't know if I have to feel trolled or what else. 

[RahuHordika]

List one damage ability that is constant through all levels.

Please think before you whine.

Many have suggested to give it a forced percentage of bleed proc or to have it influenced by the player's current melee weapon. It's not direct damage but it's a form of scalability.

Think before you call whining.

Edited October 24, 2014 by RahuStalker

[Neocyberman]

List one damage ability that is constant through all levels.

 

 

 

Please think before you whine.

Shield polarize has built in scaling mechanic.

 

The point was not scaling, it is that slash dash is built up as a damaging ability and lacks utility related to damage that most 1 skills have. With ash or ember or volt the skills have strong proc or proc chance. In volt and embers case they both have a level of spread as well. Slash dash isnt worth using once you have control over your other movement abilities.

[Jin_Lightning]

Simple: Give Slash Dash Finisher damage. Basically armour ignore.

 

You're invincible while using Slash Dash to, a very useful little trait for a 1 skill.

 

-Jin

[S0ulre4per]

I doubt they'll be doing anymore changes on Excalibur for 2 simple reasons:

 

1. He's meant to be a means for new players to get into the game (hence why the other starter frames haven't received changes and why their abilities are dated in comparisons to newer frames)

 

2. He was hard mode for new players (since they don't read anything these days) and super easy mode for advanced players (which shouldn't have been an issue considering other frames do relativly the same thing)

 

If anything they might release in the future a way for us to relive the old days of blind stuff and then procced to hack it to bits if they release Syndicate mods that remove line of sight from Radial blind (which I doubt because I believe DE has stopped caring about their poster boy seeing how he doesn't sell as good as Rhino or Nova hence why he isn't ON THE DAMN ARCHWING IMAGE ! ).

 

First of all, this video say different

 

Second. how many times we have to prove that Excal is NOT a poster boy.

(radial blind for crowd control- check. slash dash for mobility - check. superjump 2.0 - check. radial javelin 2.0- check)

 

third. just cause he is a starter frame doesnt mean he is meant for starters....

dam he is litterally THE MOST BALANCED WARFRAME IN GAME.

 

Just cause he ''doesnt sell good doesnt mean a thing''

I use him and i wreck face with im in T4. i think that is all i have to say.

[Sealgaire]

Might sound ridiculous, but a change to make slash dash worth using past mid game was what I was looking forward to most from U15. I was hoping it would at least have been a syndicate mod.

The fact that so many skills don't scale and become useless so quickly is such a bizarre design flaw and is probably the thing that bugs me the most about this game.

[Mak_Gohae]

The excuse is that they had to worry about the update being done and that they he will get another pass-through when they are looking at frames again.

Quote me, this is what Scott or Steve will say on the next stream.

 

Scott seems to be the only person that does the balancing so he does his thing and moves to something else because it seems to be only him. 

Reb or Meg prob got rules on how to pass feedback, something like, "if you see one thing being talked about by a lot of people let me know."

When a couple of hundred posts have a couple of hundred different ideas they will get to that another time.

 

Im going to guess that if Radial Blind is really bad that will be the thing that people will focus on. That's when you get DE's attention, when you focus heavily on something.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Now I have just been reading update 15 and it is amazing.

 

Here are the Excalibur changes:

Excalibur Changes:

• Super Jump: Super Jump will now add invisibility to Excalibur while in air. Additionally, Super Jump will cause a small radial stun to all enemies around Excalibur when performed, similar to the way Ash’s Smoke Screen works.

• Radial Blind: No longer able to affect enemies in rooms separated by walls. To encourage and facilitate different gameplay styles (like stealth), enemies aware of Excalibur within a few seconds, or enemies that Excalibur can see, will also be affected.
• Radial Javelin:  All enemies within radius of this ability will now be hit with a javelin.  Instead of having this ability radiate out from Excalibur, javelins will now spawn directly around opponents. Javelins will optimize to find a point on each enemy that is safe to be hit, bypassing enemies that may be holding shields or otherwise in cover. There is also no longer a target maximum for this ultimate, meaning anyone in the radius will be an eligible target. Additionally, if the javelin does not kill the enemy, each target that survives will be put into stun for a brief period of time.

 

However I am shocked that the Excalibur changes have gone ahead exactly as outlined in this thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321607-excalibur-and-you-a-guide-to-upcoming-changes/

 

The thread is now locked so no more feedback is possible. There was a great amount of people in the thread asking for some changes to the Slash dash ability. 

 

Was it simply a mistake that this thread was allowing replies, and this thread was merely a statement rather that an open forum for people to voice their opinions. 

 

If that thread was looked at then you would see that the consensus was that slash dash needed some changes. A common suggestion was that slash dash could add/extend the melee combo multiplier. A simple change but would let veteran players get some endgame use from it without affecting its power or new player useage. 

 

Now I hope a new thread for feedback appears soon now the patch is live and everyone can try the changes and give new feedback. However I would hazard a strong guess that people will still hold the same opinions that they had in that thread. 

 

So what was the point of letting us flap our gums about our concerns when it was not considered before the release of the update? 

 

My apology if I sound frustrated but I am simply passionate about Excalibur and it makes me sad that it appears the communities feedback was ignored so easily. 

 

 

Edit: When the above thread was locked why was it not closed on a DE post saying something like.

• "Thank you for your feedback. We see your concerns. There will a new feedback thread once the abilities go live and we will look again at all feedback once that has run for a while."

At least then it would like it mattered. 

 

Edit 2: Also want to point out before anyone see it that yes Excalibur did get an interesting syndicate mod. 

• Excalibur: Radial Javelin: Furious Javelin: Each enemy hit will increase Excalibur’s melee damage by x for y seconds.

However this firstly is not on slash dash the ability everyone is asking for the changes and secondly is on an ability that was just buffed and had its utility added. So it gets a mod to push it further but slash dash must remain pointless?

You mean, a tiny fraction of warframe playerbase came to a consus...

[RahuHordika]

I just tried out Excalibur.

In my opinion you can barely feel the changes. Super Jump's change didn't really do much to it and while the targetting changes for Javelin are nice that's about the only thing that really feels different about it, also I still wish they had at least looked at Slash Dash.

It feels like the other starter frames got a much better treatment.

[tris1]

Slash dash got no buff which I'm upset about

Super jump: still a waste of energy

Radial blind: dk need to try more

Radial javelin: gd that it is unlimited enemy's however that stun does hardly anything it needs to be made longer or able to increase by duration