Controller Controls - What Are You Doing And Why Is It Necessary?

[Xikiri]

Update 15 has brought more to our table than just a few new toys and the to-be-expected bugs here and/or there that come with an extensive update. I find that to be great and all, and I know you're all working hard. But, here's the thing. Believe it or not, there are a few people on PC Warframe that prefer using a controller over the keyboard. We find it more ergonomic and convenient to have all our controls right there among other reasons for having this preference. What I want to know is, and not to sound rude, but what's going on? I've been using the controller for Warframe for as long as I can remember. While you have done a decent enough job giving us the ability to use the controller, I'm a little dumbfounded as to why the PS4 and XBOne players are able to use the controllers in their entirety -- both in and out of mission -- whereas the PC players who use them are given what are, well...they're seemingly half-baked mark-ups. 

 

For example, with each big update (usually at the halfway mark or the whole number), we have to rebind most actions to their preferred spaces. That, however, is only a small gripe. What isn't is the combining of two actions into one. I can't count on both my hands how many times the new Context Action/Reload combination has gotten both myself and my teammates in danger. When I press the reload button, I want to reload. Not activate Life Support at 95% or a Laser mechanism with a teammate standing in front of it. Not to mention the slight annoyance that when trying to reload I immediately stop sprinting (that's no big deal, though). Reference to this change will be included below.

 

Furthermore, we were promised that by U14's launch day that the ship's interface would be entirely navigable using just the controller. To my dismay, I found this to be incorrect. I'm unable to navigate my Foundry as I should, select my equipment without it auto-selecting for me as I quickly scroll down, interact with my Kubrow by any means, navigate any part of the UI without having to jump through hoops with a beach ball on my head... And trust me, I get it. I really do. Everyone there is working on many a thing and doing what they can to keep the fans and playerbase happy. But there are some things that have been working just fine and you tamper with those and seem to overlook the things you vocally told us months ago. (Forgive my lack of sourcing, as this was back in U13 (.8/.9) and am unable to find a specific moment in which this was said. Unless someone is willing to go through the trouble that I am not, you'd simply have to take my word for it in case you do not recall.)

 

Controller scheme aside, I've been very pleased with Update 15. I'm glad to see that you're doing your best to patch some holes here and there. I just hope that my post won't be buried. I'm really not asking for much. I can live without a fully navigable ship via controller. I just want to be able to reload and use the Context Action button separately again.

For reference:

https://i.imgur.com/clC0Zdr.jpg

Edited October 25, 2014 by OutrightMakoto

[Selpar]

You forgot to mention that the stay or extract prompt no longer accepts controller input. So every 5 waves of defense you have to reach for your mouse and click stay so everyone knows you plan to go 5 more, until you want to leave which also requires the mouse.

[Xikiri]

You forgot to mention that the stay or extract prompt no longer accepts controller input. So every 5 waves of defense you have to reach for your mouse and click stay so everyone knows you plan to go 5 more, until you want to leave which also requires the mouse.

True, but I expected this to be fixed with time anyhow. When U15 was first released, they accidentally broke controller ehm...controller controls for console hacking. That was fixed in the following hotfix. 

[Shreiko]

When I saw b was the melee quick melee and the action and reload had changed I was quite pissed. I just hope they give the option to seperate the two. I keep pushing b to cancel my dread charges and realise that hey I mapped the context button back to x and that is now also reload. This realisation comes after I have wasted an arrow in my quiver because I released the trigger thinking the shot was cancelled.

[Xikiri]

Self-bumping for awareness. Apologies in advance if this is a nuisance. 

[Onisa]

I just hope someone at DE decides to assign archwing abilities to a button. Preferably the button assigned to warframe abilities but anything is better that having to pull out the num pad to use an ability.

[Xikiri]

I just hope someone at DE decides to assign archwing abilities to a button. Preferably the button assigned to warframe abilities but anything is better that having to pull out the num pad to use an ability.

"...but anything is better that having to pull out the num pad to use an ability."

I honestly hope you're kidding. I've not yet been able to even play Archwing missions yet because of this Context-Reload issue. But are you seriously pretty much forced to use a different device just to play the game?

It's going to be at least two weeks before I can play Warframe again, isn't it?

 

Edit: Sorry for the oddly highlighted text. I have no idea how to fix that.

Edited October 27, 2014 by OutrightMakoto

[Selpar]

"...but anything is better that having to pull out the num pad to use an ability."

I honestly hope you're kidding. I've not yet been able to even play Archwing missions yet because of this Context-Reload issue. But are you seriously pretty much forced to use a different device just to play the game?

It's going to be at least two weeks before I can play Warframe again, isn't it?

 

Edit: Sorry for the oddly highlighted text. I have no idea how to fix that.

I mapped my abilities to the D-Pad on my controller and toggled the use ability on select to on, that works fine for me. I didn't like having to deal with a use ability button seemed like a waste of time.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Selpar

[Onisa]

"...but anything is better that having to pull out the num pad to use an ability."

I honestly hope you're kidding. I've not yet been able to even play Archwing missions yet because of this Context-Reload issue. But are you seriously pretty much forced to use a different device just to play the game?

It's going to be at least two weeks before I can play Warframe again, isn't it?

 

Edit: Sorry for the oddly highlighted text. I have no idea how to fix that.

I normally have the use of abilities tied to left bumper, and in archwing that button 'descends'.  I've just gone without abilities, 'cept between rounds when I can mash 4 for a little xp.

 

I mapped my abilities to the D-Pad on my controller and toggled the use ability on select to on, that works fine for me. I didn't like having to deal with a use ability button seemed like a waste of time.

So if I understand you, you have mapped your abilities to the 4 directionals and given up the trigger style execution? I would have to relocate item select to do that, and I'm not sure if I could give up restores for abilities.

[Selpar]

I normally have the use of abilities tied to left bumper, and in archwing that button 'descends'.  I've just gone without abilities, 'cept between rounds when I can mash 4 for a little xp.

 

So if I understand you, you have mapped your abilities to the 4 directionals and given up the trigger style execution? I would have to relocate item select to do that, and I'm not sure if I could give up restores for abilities.

I remapped item select to the select button it seems more intuitive that way.

[Hypernaut1]

Am i the only one not having a problem with the reload/action button? Even before the update, if i wasnt positioned just right- i was not able to activate anything, open containers or revive.

 

With this new change, i see no change in the sensitivity. I have never reloaded when i was correctly positioned and wanted to do an action. I am RARELY ever in a situation where i just happen to need to reload, but too close to a context action. I'm usually on the run when reloading anyway, not standing DIRECTLY in front of a container/down teammate/ lazers/ door switch/ hack

 

-of course, at first, i THOUGHT it would be inconvenient, but in practice it hasn't ever been an issue. Sometimes i feel people are making up all of these "i was trying to revive, but kept reloading" scenarios.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Hypernaut1

[Xikiri]

Am i the only one not having a problem with the reload/action button? Even before the update, if i wasnt positioned just right- i was not able to activate anything, open containers or revive.

 

With this new change, i see no change in the sensitivity. I have never reloaded when i was correctly positioned and wanted to do an action. I am RARELY ever in a situation where i just happen to need to reload, but too close to a context action. I'm usually on the run when reloading anyway, not standing DIRECTLY in front of a container/down teammate/ lazers/ door switch/ hack

 

-of course, at first, i THOUGHT it would be inconvenient, but in practice it hasn't ever been an issue. Sometimes i feel people are making up all of these "i was trying to revive, but kept reloading" scenarios.

Well I mean, I can understand the thought process of why they did it. I really do. But why FORCE that change? Why not, instead of changing it, give us an option to combine them ourselves. Y'know, like they did with Sprint/Roll. This is insanity and I will not be playing the game until I see something change with this.

[BroccoliSurprise]

All of the above, especially the reload/context-sensitive action on the same button.

 

But the reason for posting now is that I would like to voice my frustration about the return of the extremely slow hold-to-crouch that appeared back in the early days of Melee 2.0.

 

I am used be able to toggle or hold sprint, tap crouch, tap jump, and do a somersault. Now, if I press crouch for less than about half a second, I do a dodgeroll instead of a crouch. (Dodgeroll has its own button.)

 

edit:

 

An observation:

Before, when Reload had its own button, I bound it to Right Stick Press. I can still reload by pressing this button, even while it's gone from the key-bind menu.

 

The sluggish response when I press-to-crouch now feels like just like trying to unwind in front of the TV after a long days work, but the batteries on the remote are drained and you need to hold it at an awkward angle and really squeeze the channel switch-button to see what's on.

Edited October 29, 2014 by BroccoliSurprise

[Selpar]

Am i the only one not having a problem with the reload/action button? Even before the update, if i wasnt positioned just right- i was not able to activate anything, open containers or revive.

 

With this new change, i see no change in the sensitivity. I have never reloaded when i was correctly positioned and wanted to do an action. I am RARELY ever in a situation where i just happen to need to reload, but too close to a context action. I'm usually on the run when reloading anyway, not standing DIRECTLY in front of a container/down teammate/ lazers/ door switch/ hack

 

-of course, at first, i THOUGHT it would be inconvenient, but in practice it hasn't ever been an issue. Sometimes i feel people are making up all of these "i was trying to revive, but kept reloading" scenarios.

I killed 3 people trying to reload as I ran by the laser controls in T1 defense... some times it is pretty inconvenient.

[TheHourMan]

I absolutely HATE the new "Hold to crouch" being a roll if you tap it thing. It messes up my whole playstyle. DE, if any of you read this, please, please reply to this topic so we know we have been heard about this!

We already had a "Tap to roll" button with sprint/roll, there is no need to bind roll to "hold to crouch" especially since there is no other way to instantly crouch without toggling.

Edit: I dont want to sound angry at you either DE, I am just very fustrated with coptering on a controller being made so difficult. I do love you guys, but please fix this V_V

Edited November 2, 2014 by TheHourMan

[Blakrana]

Right, whilst I can't say whether this is going to be a suitable answer for a lot of folks, here's the Schema I'm using since the update allowed us to:

 

Jump/Ascend*: A

Toggle Crouch/Descend*: B

Sprint/Roll: Right Bumper

Action/Reload: X

Swap Weapon: Y (Hold for Melee)

 

Fire Weapon: Left Trigger

Aim/Alt-Fire/Block: Right Trigger

Quick Melee/Chanelling: Left Bumper

Power Menu: D-pad Up

Next Power: D-pad Right

Previous Power: D-pad Left

Item Wheel: D-pad Down

 

Waypoint: Select

'Swap shoulders': Left stick Press

 

Anything else lacks a current binding. I suppose I could make Right Stick Press be 'Enlarge Map' or something.

 

*The Ascend/Descend buttons took a bit of tinkering. Basically, they're the Archwing's native Jump/Crouch, but one does not jump in empty space. What I found was binding the commands to an already occupied button cleared the prior command, but then restoring the old, non-Archwing function kept both settings. In effect, it's the same sort of deal with establishing Melee mode key bindings; designate it, then restore the 'removed' clash. There may be need to check whether it needs rebinding in Archwing missions, however.

 

Concerning the whole 'coptering with a controller' set up, I haven't found any issues using the Toggle Crouch feature. All you do is tap it once you're running, do your spin, and simply tap the button again to rise up. Perhaps it's not how you'd like to do it but nevertheless, it's workable.

 

In regards to mission navigation: The X key relates to anything on the Left side of the screen, the Y button any command on the 'right'. On Invasion, then, siding with the Left hand side is X, Y is the Right hand, and this also holds true for Defence and Interception. X is the button necessary to begin a mission, whilst Y is to decline the vote/cancel the mission. A is only really used for situations like Infestation Outbreaks, but once you have 'Begin mission' and 'Cancel mission', you want X and Y respectively.

 

Past that, I'm pretty much in agreement with you all about making the Liset menus fully navigable by a controller.

Hope this helped something at least.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Blakrana

[theninthchevron]

n/a

Edited November 27, 2014 by DrLexus

[Blakrana]

That's fair enough and I hope things go well for you.

 

There is of course the simple truth that it's more likely assumed that PC players are using Keyboard+Mouse control schemes, and the majority of Controller support is focussed on helping the PS4 and Xbox One sectors. The only way that's going to get better is if people affected by the situation come together and either discuss ways to 'work around' some of the problems.

[TheHourMan]

I think the simplest solution would just be to [edit]allow players to[edit] combine bindings to one button. Yeah the players could mess their controls up, but at least it gives them a higher level of customization and they could just go through trial and error to see what works for their preferances. Anything that takes control of my character away from from me, even in a small amount, has always &!$$ed me off. That's why I love Armored core, there is absolutely no automated controls or aim assist or anything of that nature. I still get irritated by the archwing melee having auto targeting with no option to disable it, but that's off topic.

Edited November 2, 2014 by TheHourMan