Grineer Are Overbuffed

[Tr1ples1xer]

DE keeps removing FUN every F'in update !!

 

They might even cure my WF addiction, keep at it DE so I can play something else.

[K_Shiro]

... enemy AI should be increased or changed to be more competent regardless of DEs stance on the subject

 

You are spot on. I mean sure, we fight against hordes of enemies (which makes it meaningless to even start on the idea of having stealth only missions - which could be cool but this game is just not a Thief/SplinterCell/Dishonored etc.) but enemies being so utterly dumb isn't just a minor detail since we interact with them all the time, in huge numbers, we just can't "notsee" (yea, "that's a word now") how far they are from any that can simulate anything living. Sure, they don't need to be able to strategically devise and rework their defenses on the moment we do something particular but at least something that resemble logical reaction... dunno, my collague just got beheaded by something. Sure it was a bow, so it was silent but his lifeless body still lies before me. A little bit of reaction maybe? Or alerts switched off - sure, everything must be alright, the 4 dozen soldiers that died in the last 32 seconds don't matter. Or that I am being shot at, maybe I should think about sitting on the right side of the cover... etc.

 

Apart from things above, that really don't matter all that much thanks to the pretty simplistic battle/difficulty-system (more health, more damage means you can reach a point where your game is about wether or not the player is able to murder everyone in the room within half a second or dies just as fast - because that's how such games work, practically impossible to set the perfect balance if difficulty relates to plain and simple changes in base stats like health and damage - pretty long side-comment in a bracket...), things that actually greatly endanger immersion like perfect enemy accuracy on certain occasion, complete ignorance to self safety (I can understand cloned grineer soldiers or robotics rushing at you after you disarm them, but at least corpus shouldn't act like that - they are the intellectual/merchant enemy after all) or the shortcuts on making an enemy difficult to kill by simply making them immune to practically everything instead of actually thinking up a decent way to give a challenge to the players. I'm not talking about overly complicated AI, only about base things. As things stand now, the enemy is completely unaware of the situation, can start searching for new cover even if they are perfectly fine or stay in cover when you are already behind the same cover, scraping their backs.

 

I'm opposed to simply pouring enemies at the player in a chaotic mess but even if we accept that, the not so old features where AI ends up controlling some of our allies, such problems certainly spring up and leave behind a rather sour taste.

Very good (or bad) example is the Guardian Eximus Specters we can obtain from Suda (syndicate). Their cost isn't truly nice considering how slow you accumulate rep - if you are using up one of these specters every mission, most likely you will have troubled keeping them stocked. Not to mention you won't be able to progress towards your next title.

Even if only that was the case I could swallow it - only using them when necessary is fine, they can be considered our aces up our sleeves or whatnot. But man are they stupid. I can't even say if they are normally able to survive because they don't stick around me or act like shield drones do.

- They sometimes find a console: during Ceres, Kiste (MD), it attached itself to the consol we were protecting at that time and we couldn't get it to follow us any way, even when we left to protect the other 2 consoles. Something eventually offed it I guess.

- I, as a client, even experienced the privilage of having an invisible Guardian Eximus "with me", since it wasn't rendered for me. I got the green effect and was protected while in the vicinity, I also saw the grid-like effect of the guardian eximus pop up sometimes but no blue lines of light showing that my shields are protected or anything. Enemies were shooting at thin air for me.

- During an interception mission (Mars, Augustus) I summoned 2 drones. First one rushed off somewhere right away, never saw it after - so I summoned another. That rushed at enemies... eventually got killed I guess. Since it has no weapons. Ouch. Nice AI. I summoned it, shouldn't it stay with me, at least remotely close?

 

Ah well...

[Ska-boo]

These flaws of the AI you described are the immediate reason of that dump difficulty scaling, where "harder" means "more health, more damage, more stuns". The AI is simply to primitive to deliver challenge by any "fair" ways; even if you give creeps some interesting abilities and features, they will still be too dumb to utilize them. And so everything they can do is to descend to "press to kill" crap.

 

But the question is, what is the reason of AI being this bad: inability to make a proper one due to lack of time or inadequacy of the current resource base or simple disinclination to even bother with it. That is important, because if AI starts truly be not just "A", but also "I' this game can become much and much better and interesting, and if it stays like this, then all the development will be reduced to adding new decoration to that bullet-sponge filling wankerie. Tenno and bullet sponges in space, Tenno and bullet sponges underwater, Tenno and bulletsponges in Void dimension, etc, etc. Not something I would like to see happening with a game that has potential of Warframe.

[unknow99]

Pleaaase D.E., apply your accuracy algorithm in parallel with the enemy level!!! Beginners are dying like flies right now...

 

(enemies still run in circle but that's another problem)

Edited October 29, 2014 by unknow99

[Duch99pl]

Just put on Corrosive projection, and have a radiation/corrosion weapon like Detron, Nukor or Tysis, or just pick good puncture weapon like paris or opticor, with right elemtal combo(s).

Drahk master are easy to kill if youre fast or have good hard hitting weapon like Dread.

I take them out first when I see them, but as I am playing wth Loki(p) I use to spam with radial disarm, which makes them as easy to kill, as standard grineer.

as to the  commander, scorpion and such, I got used to them.

Aimbot of these grineer is sometimes annoying.

But status of grineer is just annoying as HELL.

I remember getting hit by one guy ( trooper ) with his shotgun and actually getting 2 bleed effects, every took 50hp off of me, which at the time with Loki(p) with just 375 hp was just deadly, when it happened I felt like I lost to cheap mechanic.

Another time I had 3 bleeds at once.........if not Oberon and trinity I would die...

[avenger5]

The Corpus definitely feel like a more fun, balanced faction to fight against. And I think the biggest reason for this is the fact that they do not have hitscan weapons, allowing you to proactively take cover, strafe, roll away, etc. I had a lot of fun soloing Cerberus for 8 rounds. There were some close calls, but it was fast paced and engaging. Since that was fun, I decided to solo Draco. Same loadout (minus elemental combos of course).

 

I got shredded before completing even one round. Several times. A few times I was pinned down so badly that the Grineer actually won by getting to 100%. Grineer hitscan inherently forces you to play more re-actively in comparison to Corpus/Infested/Void. And now they have absurd accuracy. If When I got hit by a Ballista, it was game over. Even if the shot didn't kill me, I died anyway to Lancers/Elites since my shields/health were brought dangerously low. Grineer should lose accuracy if they fire while walking/running (like CSGO), and should have a significantly reduced chance of hitting a moving target.

 

If I really wanted to solo Draco, I could god-mode it by using my self-sufficient E-Siphon Ash Smokebomb build. But, I was able to do very well on Cerberus without using a god-mode combination, so why should I have to use one for Draco? If the accuracy coding won't be changed, then perhaps it is time to overhaul Grineer weaponry so they no longer are hitscan.

 

P.S. Now that the Drahk Master weapon glitches appear to be fixed, I think they are a fine addition.

[LtZefar]

The reason I like fighting Corpus more now is because they don't have instant hit bleed projectiles. That will kill you rather quickly on higher level. Grineer have always been ridiculous in this matter imo.

 

They bleed seems to scale and that just causes problems when the moment they proc it you will just die. With 10 other soldiers shooting at the same time and being able to bleed you as well this will just be laughable.

Add in heat seeking Missiles that hurt like hell and knock you over. Just not fun to fight against. The rocket firing people are also built like a tank so they take far far more bullets to die.

 

Now I haven't had much trouble with the Dog trainers even if they have taken my gun. I haven't lost it forever and because I've leveled most guns to max I now got nothing else to level up except melee.

 

Corpus doesn't need any buffs right now as they are balanced and fun to play against. You can avoid most of their shots and the projectiles that knock you over are easy to dodge. You get punished for getting hit by one though. The stompers also need to get close enough before they can use it.

 

So they are fine and don't need changing. Infested are in no need of buffs either. They can instant kill you if you fall off the map and respawn. They will just hit with 300+ points of damage per swing or more.

[MichaelSD]

Yes, I dislike the current situation too. Until now, we had some big dudes, who have special abilities. They were memorable and one changed tactics when they appeared. Now half of the Greener have special abilities, which neither makes them special, just annoying. We are thrown so many "special abilities" at us, that at the end of the day, I usually die by them, not simply being shot. I do not like this direction, but this is me.

[K_Shiro]

Yes, I dislike the current situation too. Until now, we had some big dudes, who have special abilities. They were memorable and one changed tactics when they appeared. Now half of the Greener have special abilities, which neither makes them special, just annoying. We are thrown so many "special abilities" at us, that at the end of the day, I usually die by them, not simply being shot. I do not like this direction, but this is me.

 

Feels like a moba. I mean it's not that mobas are bad, but this game is not one and honestly, only the "everyone has dangerous abilities that can impair you to oblivion" property is present - not even a pretense of the strategy of those games. Hell, I personally don't like mobas since it feels like an exam - do you remember what those characters can do, how their abilities are used, what's best againt them etc. I personally hate it when you have to counter ability with ability... not even that, when your role is fully determined as loser or winner just by meeting the right or wrong character. Similar to WoW competitive multiplayer, your character has distinct advantages against certain classes, while you are at a disadvantage against others - differences that decide your fate unless your oppnonent is a complete nutjob. Hope Warframe won't go that way - though certain enemies already have abilities that even with this braindead AI make them pure annoyance. If they even had the pretense of intelligence somewhere hidden in their heads, they would singlehandedly annihilate any and all tenno in seconds.

 

Long story short, DE tries to counterbalance the 0 intellect of AI with sure-kill properties more and more. Honestly, it wouldn't be so bad - if you think about it, losing a weapon is still better than getting one-shotted and in reality that's how a fire-fight goes. You get hit, you die. But in a game where the whole getup is done so everything is a bulletsponge, you can't introduce features that can one-hit kill you since then they won't fit a game where it's practically impossible to evade these attack by skill alone as you will get hit by the idiotically rushing suicidal enemies eventually.

[dashashou]

the amount of CC , and proc that the grineer has is troubling , and has been for a long time . 

 

corpus are fairly regarded as the weakest  faction mainly  due to there light armor and lack of CC and  proc . , they have one unit that knocks down  , and it's a lot easier / more fun to fight against 

[Barhandar]

the amount of CC , and proc that the grineer has is troubling , and has been for a long time . 

 

corpus are fairly regarded as the weakest  faction mainly  due to there light armor and lack of CC and  proc . , they have one unit that knocks down  , and it's a lot easier / more fun to fight against 

Please don't bring Corpus into the discussion. This is about Grineer, and you all saying that Corpus are weaker can and will provoke DE to make Corpus just as frustratingly hard and pseudo-difficult to fight as Grineer.

[Deios-Ken]

That's what I find a little too frustrating for grineer: 

 

- Their incredible aiming capabilities, although through (continuous) movement  you can avoid the obstacle.

 

- The commander's teleport is stronger and more absurd that Loki's Teleport, since it can be performed without line of sight.
And so it was that the logic of Radial Blind nerf went to f@ck...

 

-The Drahk handlers disarm would not be so bad (I like great challenges) if recovery of the weapon was not bugged (after being disarmed I recovered my weapon but I could use anymore).

Conclusion: Devs should leave their problems at home rather than unload their frustrations on the poor nerds like us!
-_-

Edited October 30, 2014 by Deios-Ken

[CaptainohCaptain]

Any targets previously aquired are lost.

• AI's "planning time" (for leading the target) is increased by 25-75% (meaning they take longer to be able to fire), this randomly changes for every single occasion they start it.
• Every second the debuff is active and also When a planning phase is completed, AI has 25% chance to lose track of it's target, in which case it randomly chooses target again (it can be the same target so this happens even if only one target is present). AI has 10% chance to aquire one of their allies as target.
• Lowers accuracy to 50%.
• Lowers movement speed by 25%.

You are terrible at making up enemies. It should be like

1)Enemy got vision "cooldown" of 3800+ 50*lvl ms. After this, it going "aware" state, checks out last location where they lost "sights", grenade included. This state lasts twice as long. During it, it's got 25m detection radius for unsilenced shots, dismemberment and 10m for detecting non-air movements. Detection resets cooldown. Then it returns to usual "suspicion" with hugging wall and pinning to place

2)Detection time is 0.4s from "suspicion" state, 1s flat from "steady" halved if damage is taken.

3)After detection, enemy shouts, rendering everyone in vicinity to "aware" state.

4)Target priority works on aggro points. Formula for it is: base + min (20;4*seconds of visual contact)  + min(40;(Max HP/current HP)*10) + min (40;5x ticks of damage), where base is 10 for Tenno, 30 for VIP and 0 for kubrow and -10 for sentinel.

5)Accuracy is 65% without Ancient/Eximus/Commander/Tech in vicinity and 80% with.

6)Base movement for roller is 1.15x, size 0,7x, non-infested melee speed is 1.10x, infested melee is 1x, everyone else 0.95x

[Barhandar]

Okay, so from my latest experience with Drahk Masters they now have ample telegraphing of their attack (drahk themselves plus VERY tell-tale crouching when they throw the boomerang). This, however, leaves the problem of utterly horrendous Disarm mechanic untouched.

 

Suggested solution: Make it work like Loki's Radial Disarm. Boomerang hits, your Warframe looks around confused at disappearance of weapons (NO STUN ONLY ANIMATE HEAD), and is forced into melee-only mode for the explicitly shown duration of the effect.

[LascarCapable]

I kinda agree here. Grineer is just a faction that seems too strong. Commanders are just the perfect exemple, bringing a deadly and unavoidable stun at times due to switch teleport. Unfair and frustrating. Grineer's guns are hitscan, and bleed procs are vey, very common also.

 

I would also touch a word or two about seekers, who seems to have gained a insane amount of firepower recently. Just went back frome a face to face with one on a solo run on Kiste, Ceres. And the guy dished a 1500 dps burst of Kraken in my face... Or at least it seemed to. I need some testing here. I can't belive such a powerful blow for a grineer of that level.

 

I haven't got a lot of issues with Drahk masters, but I haven't encountered them in high level games. I just noticed that their weapons seemed to bypass Electric Shield. Surprising the first time.

[K_Shiro]

You are terrible at making up enemies. It should be like

1)Enemy got vision "cooldown" of 3800+ 50*lvl ms. After this, it going "aware" state, checks out last location where they lost "sights", grenade included. This state lasts twice as long. During it, it's got 25m detection radius for unsilenced shots, dismemberment and 10m for detecting non-air movements. Detection resets cooldown. Then it returns to usual "suspicion" with hugging wall and pinning to place

2)Detection time is 0.4s from "suspicion" state, 1s flat from "steady" halved if damage is taken.

3)After detection, enemy shouts, rendering everyone in vicinity to "aware" state.

4)Target priority works on aggro points. Formula for it is: base + min (20;4*seconds of visual contact)  + min(40;(Max HP/current HP)*10) + min (40;5x ticks of damage), where base is 10 for Tenno, 30 for VIP and 0 for kubrow and -10 for sentinel.

5)Accuracy is 65% without Ancient/Eximus/Commander/Tech in vicinity and 80% with.

6)Base movement for roller is 1.15x, size 0,7x, non-infested melee speed is 1.10x, infested melee is 1x, everyone else 0.95x

 

You must be trolling or joking, I can't tell. I'm not even talking about you labelling my skills borderline insulting me since your 1 to 4 and 6 has nothing to do with what I was talking about, especially not the part you quoted. I'm not talking about detection or stealth. At all. I'm talking about accuracy as mentioned multiple times.

Point 5 is touching on accuracy but not on the mechanic itself so actually you are not writing down anything that goes against my concept.

 

No worries, though, I don't care enough, I'm not agnry, agitated or anything - just wanted to point these out for the sake of... well, just because I don't have anything better to do I guess.