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A Redundant Rant Concerning U15 And The Deconstruction Of Yet Another Coop Game I Used To Like In General.


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This is just a rant, not a list of suggestions. It is not meant to be read by anyone who doesn't like reading for the sake of reading itself.


I'm frustrated. Angry as well, very angry. For no reason, basically, except that Warframe is turning to S#&$ and I used to spend a lot of time and effort on getting accomodated to it, holding hopes that one day I might experience the coop fun I had when playing its early form with a friend.


Don't expect content from this post, I just want to vent. Because I'm a sad, stupid and frustrated person.




When Warframe "appeared" on my radar, I didn't know what to think of it. The trailer was wishy-washy and it didn't look appealing to me. It was advertised as free to play coop, so we decided to give it a try, lacking coop games till this day and the four-player shoot'em-up sounded really cool.


It was hard getting into the convoluted concepts and the clunky UI. It was very buggy at the time and the early game wasn't facilitated by means other games would implement such as a tutorial or anything remotely resembling one.


But we had genuine fun after a while of figuring out how it works since I teamed up with a friend, we skyped and went shoulder by shoulder from room to room, shooting up enemies and keeping each other's backs clear. It was an early version so hopes were high that it might develop further and all those annoying bugs and quirks would get eliminated over time.


Months and years later, none of the coop stuff is left. The game has been replaced with a load of fanservice junk that obviously the majority of players including some of my friends highly desire such as flying in space and petting doges. Between U13 and U14, I started to lose a lot of interest in playing the game. Most of my time was spent grinding for stuff I would eventually discard anyway and there was no "late" game, the gunplay was weak, the frequent bugs and matchmaking issues, migration problems, inconsistencies, graphics trouble and generally unfriendly staff made me look for alternatives a lot.


I've started playing other F2P and P2P games more, logging in daily for a reward that was less and less desirable, playing a couple of missions. Then I started omitting the missions and just getting the daily reward. Then I stopped caring about the daily reward. Lately, before U15, I've tried to come back, go slow, find a bit of gameplay that interests me. I've bought some T1E keys and started going solo with guns that were cool in theory such as the Buzlok, despite all its flaws which I am certain are never going to get eradicated, making it yet another rank-and-sell. But it was reminiscent of The Fifth Element as the bad guy sells a similar gun to some mercenaries there, giving a breathtaking preview of the gun, making viewers think: I wanna have that.

Just because I don't like ranting about something without ever providing constructive feedback:


Buzlok is:

- A short- to mid-range spam gun. Projectiles make hitting enemies harder, lack of zoom for dumbfire.

- Its homing beacon is used for attracting bullets to one target to enable a different type of high-accuracy attack.


Current problems:

- Beacon costs 10 rounds per shot, at least one beacon per enemy, meaning it is a waste of ammo and is therefore never used except for joking around or on enemies that sponge bullets.

- Therefore: Either Buzlok is too strong, so the beacon is pointless as it costs more than dumbfire. Or Buzlok is too weak which just creates huge ammo consumption for little effect. It just takes a lot of time to kill a single enemy and is therefore hard to use in Warframe.

- Beacon is offset from target location. Rounds home into the beacon, often missing the target and striking into the beacon antenna protruding from the enemy's head instead of the head itself. So no damage.

- There is no forced dumbfire. Once a beacon has been placed, shots cannot be fire normally without the beacon getting reset by firing it at an enemy and killing that enemy or waiting for a very long time.

- Beacon counts as attack, spoiling stealth. I think it was noted somewhere that this shouldn't be the case.

- Shots have a fast turning speed, giving the player only a bit of control over the path a round takes.


> Make beacon free or 1-round cost.

> Make sure beacon is not noticed by enemies.

> Beacon offset = 0 so shots hit where the beacon hits.

> Give rounds more inertia in their initial firing direction to give players more control over the path of the projectile. Meaning slightly less turning speed to emphasize player control and roughly aiming into the enemy direction for best accuracy. Even better: Increase turning speed with distance travelled.

> Reset beacon on right-click (zoom) if beacon has been spawned 1 second or longer ago. This allows players to enable dumbfire again and shoot straight to where the crosshair is pointing.


The approach of playing a couple of missions with interesting gear worked, I kinda did enjoy it. I started playing with other players again and that was okay, had some nice chats, friendly gameplay, everyone was working together. It was alright.


Then U15 was coming, everyone was hyping it, I didn't expect a thing, I even expected changes to have negative impact.


But this negative? This is ridiculous. I did an alert with my all-time favourite frame Excalibur, teaming up with a bunch of proper kids to go for Ceres Defense and what I found was just garbage.


- Enemies were stuck in spawns in every wave, ran in circles, got stuck in weird places.

- Abilities seemed totally bugged. Blind didn't blind. Javelin did blind. Jump made invisible. I later learned that this was intentional.

- The artifact got stuck in place when the cart moved and we just had a session of laughing at the bugs.


Blah blah blah. After finishing the mission, I decided to do the rest of the daily S#&$ I'd normally do such as emptying my extractors only to find that the new Archwing missions counted for completion, therefore blocking extractor placement.


I'm not exactly angry, I figure, just in complete disbelief. The design choices on the frame skills lately have been poor overall with Oberon's buff being the pinnacle of lazy coding. Instead of designing proper skill sets on par with the original ones and contributing to proper gameplay, you people just add effects you have already coded. Oberon ult too weak? Give it knockdown. Still too weak? Give it blind. In fact, add blind everywhere. Add slash to this. Add invisible to that. And now to see how Excalibur has been "redesigned" that way in U15, that's just shameful. That's something we did when modding games back when I was a kid. Making a minigun that shoots rockets at ten times the speed, ultracool. Changing props, numbers, going into configs and changing index numbers so there would be quirky effects. Lol, a grenade launcher that shoots chickens. Rofl. Such random. But we were kids and didn't actually know how to program anything. We just changed externalized values for experimentating, not for professionally balancing skillsets of characters in our commercialized game.


Numbers seem arbitrary. Nobody considers balance because it is not a selling point. More mod builds means more complexity means more confused kids. Therefore, let's reduce choices and make things easy and also very dull. Add 90% damage or a fraction of 30%? Hm, tough choice. Maybe write a guide about how to figure out which number is higher using a calculator or asking a 9-year old who is good at maths. I'm getting cynical. Especially if I see how the community is being looked down upon in livestreams if they point out how silly the current modding system is. That's just @(*()$ rude. It's not "bullS#&$" if someone suggests dissolving the mod tiers for more mod combinations. Nobody ever uses raw status mods because they are inferior and not only in a subjective way. They are not even pareto-optimal. There is no "skill" involved in picking the higher number. I can go for 15% status or 60% status, which do I take? There is no choice, there are no downsides to picking Serration on almost every gun. Hornet Strike triples the damage of my pistol. Don't you have a way of statistically finding out which mods are used the most and which are used the least? If literally nobody ever uses a certain mod, then maybe it's time to look into why that's the case. And it's certainly not because players are stupid.


The doge crap is just moneygrabbing. Kubrows are an addition I don't mind but the lousy detailing of the entire concept just makes them low-quality. Instead of letting me somehow form a shallow bond with my "pet", I get to spam arbitrary interactions to restore damage on an otherwise dysfunctional companion. Broken pathfinding, very bad hit rate and absolutely unintuitive targeting AI make Kubrows look like handicapped roid tamagotchis in battle. After a long time, the most crucial design flaws got patched such as immediate bleedout, lack of minimap and HUD notification and the inability to free a slot but without knowing more about what's going on behind the scenes, it appears like there are forces at work I don't understand. Like someone wants to make a "Sell Kubrow" feature but his 3-year old daughter is screaming and shouting, wanting the Kubrow to stay forever, so he's reluctant.


This is consistent throughout the development process as witnessed from the outside. As if half the team is against positive change based on some unrelated notions. And this is reflected within the community.

• If a gun is three times as powerful as another, it is considered a good gun because it is powerful. Therefore it is popular because good guns get used more. Therefore, it should never be nerfed because it is used a lot.

• The other gun is weaker than that gun so it is a bad gun. Bad guns are not being used by anyone and a player using one is a bad player. Buffing that gun to the level of all other guns is met with resistance as it would diminish the extreme advantage of the community's favourite guns which are of course the overpowered ones.

This is a vicious cycle that is based on poor thought and I expect this to be similar within the staff. Instead of striving for game balance which allows higher versatility, some alibi arguments are thrown as to why that would be bad. For example, the Brakk should be absolutely overpowered because it takes time to farm it. Or the Aklato should be weaker than the Lato because otherwise the terrorists would win.


There have been positive tweaks I've noticed. But they're often either just very reluctant or over-the-top. Attica has gone from one of the worst guns in the game to one of the most powerful pounders. Mk1-Braton and Lato have received a long-needed buff but they're still too weak and Aklato is now officially the #1 most pointless gun in the game, still retaining the old gun values. You're notorious for overbuffing stuff or nerfing it to scrap but as long as there IS something going on, it's highly welcome.


Looking at the Excalibur changes without having seen the other frames it gets apparent that there are lazy attempts at balancing stuff back and forth but not via means of redesign, thought, complete re-organisation and well-made adjustments, but by just putting S#&$ in place and seeing if that works. The dog is sick? Feed it vitamins. Still sick? Feed it more vitamins. Oh, it's dead. Try feeding it salad or some S#&$.


I'm getting increasingly cynical about this as it has bothered me for a long time. The most frustrating part of it all is the zombie-like repeating of phrases such as: "If you don't like it, don't play it."

The problem is that I like it. The core game. The idea behind it all. I like being a space ninja turtle mercenary robot something. Shooting up people on space stations, doing backflips off of walls for no reason other than swag. It just takes increasing effort to actually find a proper game these days as there is a mainstream ideology running the market, led by Activision and the likes, which dictates that games need to appeal to the broadest audience possible. So even if a game is good at one point, it will get worked down to please the market, turning me into a nomad, scavenging games for parts of their content and moving on to the next source of entertainment once the game has been deconstructed entirely.


And you have got such a good game at your disposal. You could do anything with it. You could make it shine. But you seem ambivalent about this. On the one hand, the landscapes are beautiful. Some designs are outstanding. Some atmospherical elements are very well made. You have those sceneries in some sectors that made me stop and stare when I first experienced the new tiles. I was marvelling at some Corpus carrier drone transporting random boxes in the background, looking around, thinking about what this place that I now use as a fighting ground used to be. Some areas have a brillant use of colour and depth. There are enemy and frame design choices that I wouldn't have done better even if given the means.

And then you emphasize speedplay and rushing through those maps without paying attention to the paintings you've drawn, grinding for silly loot.


A prominent example of good design is Excalibur as the generic protagonist / cover hero. I have grown so much to that frame while most players are simply unable to use it effectively, having to do with it being a really bad starter choice for average players. It has taken me a lot of playtime to figure out why I do love Excal and why I don't like Ash despite me initially assuming I'd be a total Ash fanboy.


The reason is that Excalibur is the archetypical ninja whereas Ash is a teleporter. There is almost nothing really "ninja" about this game. Stealth is horrible due to most game design choices being focused on reducing stealth and adding horde mode. Parkour... well. Nothing to add. Takedowns are flawed. Zerg mind AI. Blah blah. It's all been said before. But Excalibur embodies a lot of what a game ninja would be like. The Slash Dash is a standard attack motion from ninja movies and anime and it gives him great mobility. Kung Fu movies of the fantasy kind often feature monks jumping from branch to branch with inhuman jump height based on the rumors of ninjas being able to fly due to their extreme agility and climbing speed - and Super Jump is an attempt at capturing that. Ninjas are said to use blinding powder to render their foes incapable of striking back - this is Radial Blind. And it shows in the playstyle. Excalibur cannot tank. He is very squishy and doesn't have mass extinction nuke skills (except now Javelin has become one for low-level exodus). Instead, players have to play carefully, cowardly, attacking from vantage points, separating crowds with dashes and finishing off the stragglers.


And similar features are found in some other frames. Some enemy designs are great. There is a huge foundation for a proper game featuring space ninjas. It is within reach, it is so close, that might be why it has attracted so many players in the first place. But it is ultimately disappointing to reach a dead end, knowing the entire thing was a hoax. Warframe keeps moving on, featuring all-new sides of gameplay such as space combat now which will inevitably attract thousands of players looking for space combat and a fresh version of Gundam and it will be fun and they will get suckered in up to a certain point at which the game just does not hold anything new to discover and it gets apparent that everything that is there is just facade and not satisfying per se.


Some of the best games I've ever played have been buggy as F*** and the bugs never got fixed. And that's a damn shame.


Ehh... yeah, just sad and frustrated. There are obvious fixes at hand but the game doesn't get fixed because fixes don't contribute to profit. I still imagine there might be a bunch of developers within the crew who actually have a vision of the game and would love to see it become better than that but who ultimately cannot. At least that's what I like to think. That someone cares. There are a bunch of players who do but who are unable to articulate their concerns or get to the root of what bothers them but also a good lot of 'em who can and I've seen constructive criticism all around the board.


And some suggestions even make it through to the actual game, so that means there is something happening. But it gets smothered by the huge glaring issues that never even get a mention.


We made that suggestion to add random loot containers and then, poof, they were part of the Gate Crasher event. Nice.

We made the suggestion to nerf Nova and then Nova actually got a very good nerf on her ultimate which is really something that needs to be commended. That was a proper redesign and you did very well on that. I was impressed.

We made the suggestion to nerf Trinity and the change was crap, making her a heal / mana spam monster. To buff Oberon and it's just putting emphasis on ult spam. To buff Excalibur and now he's invisible during jumps which is just absolutely aesthetically appalling. Looks like the animation is missing.


I just don't know whether you people don't know what you're doing wrong, you do not want to know or you do and just don't care. And that's what frustrates me.

Like turning the Kickbot into a spambot that is ineffective at actually filtering spam. Seems like someone is trying somehow to do something but is ultimately going the wrong way.


Or interface. Ah, whatever.


I just needed to vent and I did. I feel better now.


Peace be with all. I should just donate my plat and trade goods to noob charity and give up for good. Team Fortress 2 is a lot of fun.


P.S.: Censoring words can destroy language, written and oral.

I can use low-key words without employing caps and it will make my text look readable. I will appear calm.

I can use #!x@() words without @#;$³§!ing caps and it will !#\% my &$§ look %§$!able. I will appear loud.

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1) Mods like hornet strike and serration are required because enemies do the same.

2) Kubrows are designed as another time dump for vets with nothing to do.

3) "Balance" is not a thing in RPGs. Weapons are supposed to one-up each other throughout the game.

4) Stealth does suck, but it was only created as a selling point. Stealth cannot be done in co-op of more than two people. DE's main focus is zerg rush enemies anyways.

5) I hate to say it to you, but "if you don't like it, don't play it." Companies have the priviledge of your time and money. If they no longer satisfy you, move on. That's the great thing about competition. That's all I can really say in this. U15 is new, but it is your choice at ALL times.

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I agree. 


I don't feel like doing this anymore. Hoping for better design decisions with time. Theres still a full day on my archwings, syndicates arent sufficient endgame, my clan needs another full day for the opticor to be done.


Theres nothing for me here not now.

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I think it comes down to DE's quantity over quality approach. They believe tons of content is more important than a smooth experience. They use us as their customers and their guinea pigs, making us test their content before it's actually ready. It stresses them out because they get flooded with fix demands and it pisses us off because everything is shoddy and broken upon release.


It's...sad, really. I don't agree with all of what you said, but I can sympathize with the feelings you have.

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This is the best rant I have ever read, and let no one say otherwise.


You just put everything wrong with Warframe's development into a single, organized, nothing-held-back post, and I admire the courage, determination, and care behind its creation.


Anyone who says TL;DR should be publicly humiliated for their blatant disrespect.

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I completely agree. 


This is one of the first walls of text on this forum that I took the time to fully read and comprehend. I respect you for creating something that points out ALL of the issues I, and many others,  currently have with Warframe.

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I'm crying. I spent an hour looking at U15 feedback and I'm appaled by the absolute dishonor this update has brought on the once shining beacon of innovation and coolness that was warframe. I cannot pinpoint when it was that the game turned from the one I dumped five hundred hours and a hundred bucks in, to the one I am on the brink of calling for its euthanasy. But it happened. And I am in tears that such potential was wasted. Wasted by a team I believed in, but just... Just didn't do what they could. And now I do not play. I wait for the day the bugs are fixed, the features are fleshed out and the core gameplay improved. But instead the bugs pile on, the features are abandonned and receive but lip service, and the core gameplay is more and more flawed.

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Let's be sad, stupid, and frustrated together.


I still maintain that the best thing DE has done to this game in recent memory was what they did to the bows. They followed some good suggestions on the forums and added some nifty bonuses like innate punch through. Bravo. That, and when they reverted the change made to Sonar not being able to be recast before its duration expired (which was apparently a bug).


Like an Orokin Derelict, Warframe is an incoherent tangle of vines and debris that keeps growing in on itself with each update. I respect DE as a producing company but I can't say I share that same enthusiasm for their development skills. They've shown they're very passionate about WF on their devstreams, and I don't want to downplay that. Yet as long as WF is "Help Digital Extremes learn how to make a co-op RPG!", it's going to feel like the game itself is insecure and is running blindly forward toward a future it doesn't know. Interestingly enough, this is probably what the game development process feels like... for the six months or so, maybe. It's just that the playerbase gets to experience that primordial soup interlaced with various microtransactions slowing down the process far greater than it would have if the dev team just hammered out the project for a year. 


I've barely played WF in the past couple weeks due to being busy and because of host-client issues. My record for joining missions that were black screens in a row in the past two weeks is... five. Yeah. Each time I joined a mission, some issue forced me to alt + F4 because I simply couldn't play the damn game. When all I want to do is kick back late at night with some music and not have to think for an hour while I grind a weapon or kill meatbags, this is the most frustrating thing possible. I suppose I've reached the twilight where I spend more time complaining on the forums than I do playing the actual game, which is a personal problem but it's still a bit of a shame that it's come to this.


In the meantime, I'm re-playing some old RPGs and playing Killing Floor and some other games with friends (I wish I could play Natural Selection 2 and Tribes: Ascend, but my potato of a computer just won't handle running either above 20 fps). The grind is just as tedious in KF, and the AI still has funny exploitable pathing issues, but I at least come away feeling like I accomplished something after each play session. It's a very well-designed game for how simple it is, despite it still feeling like a mod. I look forward to seeing what TWE does with KF2.

Edited by Noble_Cactus
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I actually read all of that. Must say I agree with you.


Not sure if that's DE's whole plan here or if that's just the way things ended up. I'll just chalk it up to success can be blinding. I feel for you though this is something I've experienced myself with other MMO's, and it sucks every time. Let's hope some Devs read this may be an eye opener. lol or they'll feel completely disrespected but we/

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I'm in the same boat -- played for a day of U15 stuff and it's just the same incoherent mess as it was a year ago, a half-year ago, few months ago.

DE just adds more superficial stuff, again and again, while the core of the game haven't been updated in a while.

And since the game is actually growing, there is no incentive for DE to change their ways.


Also, funny DE's habit -- when in doubt, use more RNG. (hence Syndicate grind and much more.)

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I am a little apathetic to the whole thing, but that might be because I got in for not too long ago.

Granted, I was pissed when they released the kubrows and put ridiculous demands on it when it would just run and die. Frankly, that is why I went back to my carrier. I don't know when I will play and I don't want to play daddy with a kubrow. I play this game to feel powerful and generally bad@$$ and the kubrows completely destroy that, I really tried liking them, but once they just sat there and died I just couldn't take it anymore. Not to forget how pissed some of the spokespeople of DE were when people asked for a way to remove their kubrows, apparently they felt that having it slowly perish and die over a few weeks was more ethical to that piece of programming than to just kill it. Frankly, if someone told me "hey, either I give you this poison that will slowly kill you in two weeks or I can just give you this other thing that will kill you right now.", I think everyone would go for the latter. Then just remember the pain before they finally gave us SOME coloring capability on our kubrows? I mean seriously, they compared them to real life dogs and called it unethical because you wouldn't spray your dogs in real life.


Now I am a bit off track tho, but that's just because it annoyed me so much because it didn't make sense.

Then we had the huge RNG with the kubrows where you wouldn't even get the one you wanted. I mean, imagine going to the store and asking for milk and they kept giving you cheese, butter, toilet paper etc.. Especially as there's still RNG even if you pay for it.


Frankly tho, I think in general the game is really nice, but I wouldn't mind a bigger focus on actually getting their stuff together. I really don't mind if U16 adds only a single warframe or such if it fixes a lot of the bugs and changes what we already have for the better.


On a positive note, the changes to interception and defense is nice.


I think, to go back to what I started with, that the game might be more friendly to those who joined in past update 10-12 than for those who joined earlier. We who joined later are used to this type of style and we've stayed because we like it or at least can deal with it.

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agree with some things and I would add some things. I;ve played this for a good while and have put money into it. I do think  that somethings are put out too soon exp. this last  patch. I and my friends have had multiple problems, enough to cause frustrations and not wanting to play. Things like doing a new main quest and even though you pick up something and it shows in your inventory, when you get back to your ship its not there, After doing the archwing quest and moving on to do the new warframe quest, the game was not registering that I had done the archwing quest. So it wont let me continue. Mentioning the archwing quest theres a point where my player disappears and right half the screen goes black and I die because I cant see whats happening. Please God get rid of that capture and keep the bases option, First quest with the wings to get parts for new warframe is one. Each time I go in to try to do that quest we are one or two people down. There is no way in heck one can do it. Those quests are hard enough in a normal map not you put it out into space allowing bad guys to attack you at a full 360 around you. Because of your clipping problem I'm seeing them shoot through things to hit me. Other problem is getting stuck on structures or in them. Char has half her body in something rest outside of it and cant move other than to turn. I think you guys need to slow down and think stuff out more and fix things a bit more before release.

      What brang many of us to this game was that space ninja being in a ninja armor suit type mythos. I liked ash in the beginning, stealth play, going through a ship and either killing every bad guy without raising an alarm or going through and just killing the prime target without others seeing you or raising an alarm. That was challenging, that set you appart game wise.Ash wasnt perfect I seem to remember his top move he would first through smoke then attack everything  with in a small distance. That was he didnt seem like he was teleporting but moving in and out of the smoke taking down bad guys. You never did fix or finish Ash though.Loki has a better and longer invisibility, Loki can kill and stay inv where ash doesnt and his invisibility is short time wise. I dont play ash much now I am hoping you will fix or finish him if you make him prime. Other small thing is dumbing down of bow I use to use. Perfect weapon for stealth shoot a well placed arrow and bad guy dies but when the bow doesnt kill bad guys with one shot no matter how placed anymore, stealth is gone for choice.

       The game now seems to be straying from its origins. Now its race to the end and what did this last patch do it brought in a aura card to run faster. Why dont you just create just two small rooms so these idiots can race to the end of the second room and be done. What you should come up with a HArd Core mode. These maps are large with sections of twisted passages easy to get lost, you as game designer dont post where players need to go on map, they have to figure ot out on their own. There will be traps create either a warframe that has a trap detection skill or it can be a card.same with taking down the traps you need a skill to do it. Traps will do everything from hurt  to kill you, to teleport you back to begining to teleport you to a room with a very nasty creature in it. And speaking for myself and my friends in hard core you need a full party of various talents including healers and everyone has to work as a team to make it. Heck if you want to make it just melee weapons only all the better. The wings and all this part of the game your adding doesnt mean much to me . If I want to fly something i will play star citizen or one of the ww2 flying games. You should have continued with the ships we now have and just let us fly them, customize them. Playing three matches I can say I don't want anything to do with wing quests.

          Last small thing I and my friends have to say about the new warframe is whoever designed it should be taken out to wood pile. We like the space ninja theme, we like how most are sort of in that vein, tell me how a guy in a top hat and 60;s bell bottom looking pants fit that? Or a clown girl? Personally I'd let the clown girl in but not the top hat guy.This kind of shows all of us how far you are straying.

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1) Mods like hornet strike and serration are required because enemies do the same.

2) Kubrows are designed as another time dump for vets with nothing to do.

3) "Balance" is not a thing in RPGs. Weapons are supposed to one-up each other throughout the game.

4) Stealth does suck, but it was only created as a selling point. Stealth cannot be done in co-op of more than two people. DE's main focus is zerg rush enemies anyways.

5) I hate to say it to you, but "if you don't like it, don't play it." Companies have the priviledge of your time and money. If they no longer satisfy you, move on. That's the great thing about competition. That's all I can really say in this. U15 is new, but it is your choice at ALL times.

Wow... I feel really sorry for you. its sad for me that your favorite game got turned into something you hate. as for saying you are stupid don't.


no one who is stupid could bring there point across as well as you did. as well as that all your complaints are valid reason's, I totally understand how Excalibur can feel ruined broken and wrong for you.


and what you said can be a huge problem even if you do it right. an example is "Guild wars 2" I tried to like that game but the way they updated it just felt pointless. every single time a new event was added it was always some new threat because you are hero's and hero's need threats to be what they are.


only every time a new event popped up in my emails I would always think "why bother? its not like the world is doomed if I don't join. there's like a 100 other players to fix the problem if I join or not."


that and the updates would come to fast for me to do them. they would come every month and be gone in a month too. one time I joined at the end of the event and it felt like I just had came in the room to watch my favorite TV show only to find out this was the last episode of the season and I had just missed all the rest.


in fact if I wasn't playing warframe as much as I do I would feel overwhelmed at the sheer amount of stuff being added, good in my opinion or not.


and lastly I want to say thank you. your post has inspired me to never ever do what you just talked about. If I ever end up making the game ive dreamed about I will make sure that I take my time and never rush anything.


also if something is ever confusing or really hard to fix I will sit back think about the problem and test the heck out of it before putting it in the game.


Lastly I wish I could have given you a cookie at the time you wrote this. it sounded like you really could have used one.

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I just want to point out.


The Ceres thing is a bug.

It has happened back then quite a number of times.

This is definitely not the first time.


Extractor not deploying?

When the new UI released more nodes on the planets, it was the exact same issue.

We had to redo the nodes, only realized the node cannot be completed.

Then DE had to patch it in.

They did the same just earlier.


So yeah they are bugs that keep rearing their ugly head yo.



As for Excal.


Radial Blind works.

But you have to use Super Jump or Slash dash (sometimes both) to set it up.

You can't just use over extended and "fire and forget".

You need to be able to see them to blind them that means in their face and guns.

SD thankfully kept it's hallmark Invulnerability phase as you zip across.


RJ stun works as intended.

Edited by fatpig84
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I agree, and thanks for doing it in a well worded respectful post.


I personaly have that love/hate thing going on with warframe much like yourself.  I want to just leave the game but have those points that I really do enjoy playing it as well.


Warframe has so much potential but I feel DE cant see the potentially beautiful trees for the forest.


For me I can see that the art and sound teams actually are improving (even if I dont always agree with their chioces) and trying to achieve more within the game. 

Unfortunatly I cant see the the same thing for the programming and UI teams (no offence meant to those teams mind you).  Few things feel like they are more inventive or improve over what we have from that side to the development, they feel more like rehashes of what already exists, or just simplified conversions of what is there.  Kind of like they are playing it safe rather than trying new ways to improve and develop further.


A lot of what gets released also seems rushed and not even alpha tested and I think taking time to test more before release (even if it means stuff will take another week to come out) would go a long way to add to the polish of the game as a whole (becuse lets face it, most updates are vastly better a week after it's release and a bunch of hotfixes have gone into it. while for a good chunk of players they arent interested in being the testers so much as playing the game).

Edited by Loswaith
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Let's be sad, stupid, and frustrated together.

Same here. OP's post is an eloquent, surprisingly thoughtful perspective that I wish I could have come up with before I left. While I don't completely agree with some of the specific examples used, the general feeling - the overwhelming disappointment with perceived progress and frustration at the opacity of DE's response - is definitely something I - and others, apparently - have in common. I admire you for your dedication to the game which led you to write possibly the single most informative piece of feedback from a point of view growing more and more widespread by the day.


Sorry to hear you feel this way, and while I don't offer any answers, I'd like to add my voice to the concerns raised in this thread.

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DE seems to have decided having a "wide" game--one with lots of shallow content, is better than having a deep game. That's what's killing all of us on this thread. There are so many things Warframe has that scream potential when they're released, but are never given the depth necessary to make them special.


Look at Invasions. Players here on the Forums have been suggesting multiple battles, minibosses, a raid as the last completion, and many other things to improve them since they were first implemented. Yet it's still "complete 5 missions for 35000 credits."


Look at Nightmare Missions. So much potential, yet all we get is "run a mission without shields for a chance at a mod."


Look at the Void. That new Limbo frame seems to be calling to the Void, begging it to do strange things with players and enemies moving throughout dimensions, with crazy impossible geometry and challenging traps. We also could use more enemy variety and bosses. But we just get "play Survival in a white room, to get a key for another one of these missions as a reward."


Look at Quests. I said "story!" DE said "normal missions with some dialogue".


Look at Dark Sectors. For a little while, PvP seemed like it would bring something different. Yet the system is still nearly as flawed and shallow as it was at implementation.


Look at many of the frames: Excalibur, Nekros, Ember. So much potential for these concepts, but ultimately not special at anything.


Look at the mods: all they do is increase stats. Very few make a meaningful difference to the game.


Look at the base combat itself: Enemies come in two varieties: low health and low damage, and moderate health and high damage. Few change combat in a meaningful way, or make players approach them differently. Stealth is a good joke, as is not using any of a select 10 or so weapons in each category.


But DE is, slowly, adding depth. The Infested are better enemies than they were before, and the Drahk sounds promising. Melee is coming together finally. Bosses are more fun now.


The question is will they ever prioritize that depth, and build their game around that rather than width. If not, all the game will become is a collection of half-baked ideas.

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The question is will they ever prioritize that depth, and build their game around that rather than width. If not, all the game will become is a collection of half-baked ideas.

I believe it's too late for that. It's kind of hard to restructure the foundation of a skyscraper built in a desert.

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I agree wholeheartedly.


The worst thing about is that giving feedback is virtually useless, as a good portion of the player base was drawn in by the haphazard addition of ultimately shallow gimmick content, and they don't see an issue with the game. Public opinion rules, and public opinion is dominated by the type of "gamer" who believes Black Ops II is a masterpiece of game design, the ending to Mass Effect 3 was the best decision ever made for the franchise, and that the Sims 4 was a vast improvement over number 3.


Time to find something else to play, then.

Edited by Sylaenius
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I think it comes down to DE's quantity over quality approach. They believe tons of content is more important than a smooth experience. They use us as their customers and their guinea pigs, making us test their content before it's actually ready. It stresses them out because they get flooded with fix demands and it &!$$es us off because everything is shoddy and broken upon release.


It's...sad, really. I don't agree with all of what you said, but I can sympathize with the feelings you have.

I dont think it can be called that anymore.


Its more like, produce something new, get hype train going, cash in.

Rinse and repeat.

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I read all that, and you're absolutely right about everything, and that comes from a veteran. I keep seeing this endless cycle and the ultimate dilemma that DE develops for quantity, and not quality because it sells better.


This should be stickied to the page and have the developers them self forced to read this.


I am not even convinced if DE reads anything on the forums, as there are soooo many genius ideas that would fix every single thing that are wrong with Warframe but never gets implemented. 


Some examples:


* The forums had been discussing an Oberon rework for a very long time and we got a very lazy job as you described.


* Limbo is a very broken frame, he already needs a rework but I am certain that that will never happen. 


* DE Rushing new content sooo bad that they forget to even test their content. Broken weapons, broken gameplay, Warframes, mods and weapons that are so bad just after being released that no one plays them. 


I could go on forever but OP said sufficient. I feel like this game will crash and burn soon if there are no changes.

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I believe it's too late for that. It's kind of hard to restructure the foundation of a skyscraper built in a desert.


I don't think that's what the game is. I'd say it's more like DE decided to build the biggest city ever, but all their buildings are just foundations. Every time they sit down and start to seriously think about finishing one, they think of all the other, different buildings they could start and forget about it.

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