A Redundant Rant Concerning U15 And The Deconstruction Of Yet Another Coop Game I Used To Like In General.

[vaugahn]

Well i have not run he launcher since i joined in U5 but srs in beta? In 2 major consoles releases,fully developed market   and in beta? Well then they can do whatever they want since it is still in "beta" . They can even make everything pink and say it is "beta"

 

Well, the game is hardly complete yet. I'd say it's even more of an alpha, with the state it's in now. 

 

Most AAA games are in development for 3+ years, we're around half that right now. 

[Garuger]

i also looked at this but if you look at the rewards what they did, well atleast to me, was they looked at weapons and skills people dont really use and used those for the mutator mods as a means of getting people interested again in using them. cuz i mean why use a hek or sobek if there is boar prime in the game, why use skana if there is the nikana etc. but by making these the weapons that benefit from the syndicates it might get people to use them more, i guess that was the ideology they went with.

There is absolutly no reason to use Skana or Jaw sword even with those mods you can use a spoiled strike which has again 100% damage to ALL weapons with reduction to speed . The only thing that these mod do is just excist and take space nothing more nothing less . For example you can get a drakon nikana , dakra prime etc and some of the best dps weapons in game which skana cant even reach 1 in the million . They have no usage especially those mods or the sobek mod . Some are very good such as Hek / Mirage and some others (cant remeber them all ) but those are not even in the same league as the others

[Garuger]

Well, the game is hardly complete yet. I'd say it's even more of an alpha, with the state it's in now. 

 

Most AAA games are in development for 3+ years, we're around half that right now. 

F2p beta are not AAA games and they usually take around 1~2 years in beta to be released (see smite) . However Warframe has been in 2 major consoles that is why i consider it a bit fennicky that huge expansion on a "beta" game

Edited October 29, 2014 by Garuger

[Shifted]

I noticed the constructive feedback buried in there.

Did you notice the part about useless weapons?

Because that's what I agree with. Buff that old gear.

 

Or the part about enemies getting stuck?

Grineer Shipyards Defense map gets enemies (and kubrows) running into walls every wave.

[Garuger]

Did you notice the part about useless weapons?

Because that's what I agree with. Buff that old gear.

 

Oh you mean Supra? Which is burried in dust? or gorgon / embolist / daggers / alert weapons and many others that despertly need buff but the only way they counter that is having new stuff covering the old stuff? If yes you made an ally to your cause

Edited October 29, 2014 by Garuger

[vegtro]

I hope they trash water levels.  Water levels are never ever fun in any game (Might as well be a no gravity mode).  At this point, they are just adding bullet points to the game.  

 

I rather have them work on existing maps that has verticality.  You have all these acrobatic move sets, yet it's just for moving within a horizontal plane.

Edited October 29, 2014 by vegtro

[MichaelSD]

I really supported DE at the beginning, but as time went by, the my enthusiasm began to vain. The reason that many of their problems are home made. As I wrote elsewhere, the hot topic section, with it's votes for example are good indication what people want. Now, when 2/3 of the people vote something else than "great, we love it" it is time to rethink it. With U15 (and some older stuff) DE just implemented things that were in this category. So, my understanding towards is limited at the moment (which reflects my refusal to buy the full Prime package :) ).

[Stormfrenzy]

I don't agree with a single element in the OP's post except that to spend your time in a computer game you have to have fun. To that I would like to add that the moment (and I mean the moment) you start logging in simply for a daily reward, you should uninstall the game and not play for at least a couple of months. It's one of the sure signs that you're not having fun.

 

Sometimes a player might feel that they should stick with a game they have already played a lot, sort of feeling that they would somehow have wasted their time if they don't keep it up. This is false, time spent on playing computer games is immediately wasted but if you have fun then that doesn't matter. When you stop having fun, the time spent matters though, so don't waste your time. Do something fun!

 

If you in three or twelve months time start thinking about Warframe again, give it another whirl. There will still be lots of players here and you might enjoy the game in the shape it's in then.

 

Either way, go have fun. In Warframe, or anywhere else you might find it :)

[ThePresident777]

The Original Post is emblematic of a certain mind set, and it's loaded with key phrases indicating it.  Warframe, is not strictly anybody's game (It is DE's product.   Bare with me.)  It's a game for a lot of different people, as such, you can't expect everything to appeal to you.  And, it's not strictly a game either.  It is a store.  No one would consider it reasonable to walk into a toy store and tell the manager to get rid of all the Barbie dolls and stock only G.I. Joe dolls.  No good store manager would take such a request seriously.  It's just as applicable to any game.  Not everything in the game is for you.   If you don't like Kubrows, by all means tell DE why.  Even more importantly, tell them what you would like instead of Kubrows.  But, don't expect them to get rid of Kubrows for you or your group.  No one is forcing you to get a Kubrow.  You can safely ignore them, and any other content in the game that you don't like.

 

I just hope DE learns to stop breaking one group's toys to appease another group.  DE's been doing so for at least the past year with the sham that is "balance" and it needs to stop.  "Guys, I heard you want to nerf.  Do you want to nerf?  OK, let's nerf!  For balance!  Weee......", is not a design at all.  It's lack of design. 

 

I will not be looking forward to any more DE products if they're the equivalent of a broken romper room with brats trying to set each others toys on fire.  Everything I enjoy in Warframe is always in danger of being eradicated and I don't appreciate that experience.  I don't care if the majority of the game is not for me.  But, don't brake the part that is mine, otherwise, I can't be a good customer.

Edited October 30, 2014 by ThePresident777

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I can appreciate a healthy rant, but I do not appreciate profanity and attempts to bypass the word filter. Please, keep the language appropriate. 

Even though the OP called it a "redundant rant" I noticed the constructive feedback buried in there. Example:

 

I don't think you were addressing me, but I will try to give more constructive feedback related to my last post. As a warning, it is a wall of text.

 

I would love it if DE said with every update, that along with their additions they plan on updating two of the following systems that have been added over the past year or so (or for me roughly around the PS4 launch):

 

 

Invasions: I think I outlined some other ideas, but ones all over the forums that I love are having multi-staged invasions for higher rewards. In one of these invasions, players might find themselves doing a wave defense on the ground while protecting a ship or another object our temporary allies might need, then going to space and exterminating a ship of enemies, going to another and capturing an enemy facilitator who can tell Lotus what the enemy attack plans are, taking to Archwings (there should be a base Archwing IMO so DE can develop mixed missions without locking players out) to destroy a major enemy ship, and then finally battling a boss on the final mission, who's death will cause the enemy to withdraw the troops under him/her. Or players could do other versions with different orders, but overall I think it would make them feel more like a story and less like a grind. I'd also add that the rewards should be boosted in amount so that it's always 3 research items, 100,000 credits (at least), or maybe on occasion even a weapon that's currently in alerts.

 

Nightmare Mode: I envision a mode where players can complete nightmares for set rewards at certain stages, without RNG in the reward or the mission parameters. Low level nodes would offer maybe Vigor for completing a low level mission with the Timer modifier active, or Hammer Shot for completing a high level mission with the Enemy Damage Boost-No Shields mode. I also think there should be other challenges, such as a "no detection" one where enemy detection=death, Lighting Enemies one where enemies have their movements increased, Eximi one where all enemies are some kind of Eximus, and others that change gameplay in some way. There would also be more Nightmare mods.

 

The Void: I understand the aesthetic choice of relatively simple rooms, as it fits well. But to go with that, I would love it if (if possible) physically impossible geometry was included, as well as multi-objective missions. For example, there could be a room with a defining characteristic. When the player walks forward into the next, there would be another room that turns. After that another, but finally the last room leads back to the first--even though the player went through another one to get into the loop. Perhaps as he first went into one of the rooms Lotus would add an objective, such as "search for a key in a resource cache" and once it is found the player could progress. That might be taxing on the level system though.

 

A more manageable one to me would be having different doors that lead into a room--but they lead to different sides of the Rift, meaning players have to go through both to kill all enemies. This could be expanded as certain items might only appear in one side of the Rift, including rare items and Mods.

 

Also, please add more enemies to the Void across all factions. Some I'd most want are Corrupted Chargers or Leapers, Scorpions, Napalms, and Snipers.

 

Quests: This might have been somewhat unfair to add to my list, as they are somewhat new, but I want more quests like the very first one: adding story to the game. I would love it if many of the planets were reworked to be first unlocked during a quest. That way story could be added for new players. This could be easily done by reworking old events. Example: At the end of Mars we find out that the Corpus, angry that we have infringed into their space, have begun aggressively militarizing and attacking Grineer ships that have been reported to have Tenno on board. In response, the Grineer, feeling threatened, have declared war, and we have been tasked to help them. As we continue we learn that Alad V has been using the attacks to come up with an excuse to capture Warframes and blend them into Zanuka. This would be a rework of Gravidus that would help players understand the enemies and more about their motives. Going into Jupiter now players understand Alad V, have a rough idea of what his Zanuka ideas are, and understand that he's been capturing Tenno.

 

PVP: A more dedicated PVP with different maps (that could be recycled from the PVE maps) and different game modes could help draw that competitive shooter crowd. Alternatively, if that really wasn't the intention of PVP then maybe it should still be reworked, but only after some of the other things I've listed are dealt with.

 

Certain Frames: Sometimes I wonder if you at DE are seeing what we the players are in regards to these frames. Super Jump, for example, was a bad escape skill as Radial Blind is better, is a hard CC instead of a short escape, barely costs more, and doesn't last long enough to be a worthwhile escape. Super Jump is a good positioner, and that's why I'd suggest that we can hold down the jump button to lead to a higher jump (maybe a max of 5 meters high). In Super Jump's place, I would have some kind of super melee ability that causes unlimited stamina, allows blocked bullets to do 250%+ damage, speeds up his counter meter, and increases Excalibur's overall mobility.

 

Damage 2.0/Mods 2.0: I would like the entire concept of scaling to be reconsidered, and along with it damage mods. In my opinion, many of the mods created could be interesting to use, but ultimately damage is king so they aren't. My guess is at least 60% of MR6+ players use builds of Serration, Split Chamber, and at least two elementals on every single Rifle build. And my guess is the other four slots are split between five or six more DPS upgrades to fire rate, punch-through, more elementals, corrupted/Nightmare damage mods, and Critical chance/damage. There have been a few suggestions: splitting the mods between damage and utility ones (so certain slots forced you to chose the other kind) won't be a real solution, as players would use the other mods more, but still have them trivialized in importance by the damage ones. I think combining certain utility mods would be nice, but I don't think players would let them take precedent over damage ones even then. I don't think just scaling back the damage mods is enough either, as players will still put as many as possible on weapons. Instead, some damage mods, namely elementals and multishot mods, would also need to be redesigned so they don't cause damage increases. I would make elementals convert a percentage of the base damage to the damage of that element, and make multishot increase proc/critical chances, but not cause a base damage increase (so it would split a bullet in half instead of adding an extra one. Although maybe for shotguns this wouldn't be the case.)

 

Enemy level would be changed so that, instead of being based on damage, levels decrease the time enemies spend telegraphing their attacks.

 

Enemy Design: I think most of the new enemy designs since Update 14 have been positive additions. However, I would love it if Butchers, Flameblades, Prodmen, and Powerfists had quick lounge attacks that might be balanced by being canceled by melee damage, and having a higher chance of being stopped by an Impact proc. In addition, Butchers would be replaced around level 20 with upgraded Guardsmen (and a Corpus version) that have all the Butcher's powers and additional bullet blocking abilities. I would redesign snipers as well, as higher damage enemies that attack from further away, but have a red tracer and need several seconds of being able to track the player, without their aim being broken, before they'll pull the trigger. That will make them long-distance high priority targets, that are ineffective on their own but, if a player gets distracted, become deadly.

 

I would also like to add that, after playing the Hyena Facility alert, I've been in love with the idea of more difficult missions having multiple "Superheavies"-- enemies that are almost minibosses and require more teamwork to take down. These would not be as easily killed with powers, have more invulnerable/heavily reduced damage parts and weak points, and generally require more teamwork to take down. Things like mini Lech Krill's (with larger weak points) and Sprag and K'Ventra (the sabotage bosses)-like enemies are other examples besides the Hyenas that are like ones already in the game. I'm not asking for these bosses again, but instead for systems like these.

 

Bonus! Animations: This might not count as helpful, but please do something with Aure7's posts!

 

In conclusion (finally) I understand that DE wants to keep creating new content. But thus far, old content hasn't been addressed enough. So in addition to all the new things DE adds every update/half update, I believe myself and other less new players, as well as some who had stopped playing the game, would be gratified if you went back and completely overhauled some old content that has lots of promise that has yet to be realized. I'm not saying my suggestions are the only way to fix these things; all over the Forums there are others with just as much merit. But I do ask that DE really works to improve these things, and prioritizes one or two of them each update.

[Exodess]

Let me tell why why cash infusion isn't all that matters; destiny as an example. Activision has showed the world, multiple times, that you can't turn a billion dollar franchise over night. It is simple, how much money, different studios and PR budget you might have, if the core development team does not get nearly enough time for procedural creation of core content, the result always seems to turn out lackluster. That is also an issue most commom with all yearly franchises. Time shpuld be the least of constraints if it is your wish to fully realise your project. That much is clear.

 

That is quite true.

[Evanescent]

Um You have my total respect for your words. I can see where  you're coming from, but I can't fully agree with you.

 

For myself, all I can say is that I'm on a train-ride, watching the new scenery that is ever moulding and changing itself into something new.

Warframe, for the past 1 and a half year, has been a very dear thing to me, and strangely I never got tired of it, or too frustrated at the stuff that happened.

Warframe is growing. And I like to see where the Devs will take it, with their vision of the game.

 

Excalibur has been my main since I started, and the way you described him makes him seem cool, but I could feel him slowly become a one-trick pony. It hurt me to see radial blind zombies pressing 2 and left click. It hurt.

Now, you have to play him tactical. Sure you can play like you did before, but you also have the choice of doing it different. Now he is on par with the other frames. He is powerful. And that made me feel so good.

 

Archwing. I'm bemused over the negativity. Warframe is set so far in the future....people refuse to respect the fact that the developer's concept of 'space ninja' can be different from their own. I see this often" Warframe is ot ninja'. It is. Ninja is not wearing black rags and waving katanas while invisible. Ninja is what you want you want it to be. Ninja is about the spirit. Hiding in plain sight. striking fast, striking hard. How one does it is entirely up to them.

 

To make warframes all ninja-let's stop for a moment, all look at all the frames. Look at all the variety. Now make them all 'NInja'.How would that make warframe unique? The Devs have a vision. Let them realise it. What we want them to do is what forced them not to make Dark sector like they wanted it  in the first place. That's right. Telling them what to do. It's like telling your favourite author what to write.  You don't get the kick ot of it anymore. And I can tell you, nowhere else have I seen the respect and privilege this community gets from the devs. The warmth, the friendliness, the involvement-that's what brought me to warframe.

 

Many things are still in the bud. more development is coming. Syndicates give me a reason to use my leveled up weapons  without worrying about wasted xp. They are my long term goals-I'll get it done while I enjoy the game. It's not something that one grinds and poof! it's done in one day.

 

Warframe is unique. Warframe is growing. And I for one, will sit back, and enjoy where it takes me, sticking to the very end. 

[Jinkaza]

I don't think you were addressing me, but I will try to give more constructive feedback related to my last post. As a warning, it is a wall of text.

 

I would love it if DE said with every update, that along with their additions they plan on updating two of the following systems that have been added over the past year or so (or for me roughly around the PS4 launch):

 

 

Invasions: I think I outlined some other ideas, but ones all over the forums that I love are having multi-staged invasions for higher rewards. In one of these invasions, players might find themselves doing a wave defense on the ground while protecting a ship or another object our temporary allies might need, then going to space and exterminating a ship of enemies, going to another and capturing an enemy facilitator who can tell Lotus what the enemy attack plans are, taking to Archwings (there should be a base Archwing IMO so DE can develop mixed missions without locking players out) to destroy a major enemy ship, and then finally battling a boss on the final mission, who's death will cause the enemy to withdraw the troops under him/her. Or players could do other versions with different orders, but overall I think it would make them feel more like a story and less like a grind. I'd also add that the rewards should be boosted in amount so that it's always 3 research items, 100,000 credits (at least), or maybe on occasion even a weapon that's currently in alerts.

 

Nightmare Mode: I envision a mode where players can complete nightmares for set rewards at certain stages, without RNG in the reward or the mission parameters. Low level nodes would offer maybe Vigor for completing a low level mission with the Timer modifier active, or Hammer Shot for completing a high level mission with the Enemy Damage Boost-No Shields mode. I also think there should be other challenges, such as a "no detection" one where enemy detection=death, Lighting Enemies one where enemies have their movements increased, Eximi one where all enemies are some kind of Eximus, and others that change gameplay in some way. There would also be more Nightmare mods.

 

The Void: I understand the aesthetic choice of relatively simple rooms, as it fits well. But to go with that, I would love it if (if possible) physically impossible geometry was included, as well as multi-objective missions. For example, there could be a room with a defining characteristic. When the player walks forward into the next, there would be another room that turns. After that another, but finally the last room leads back to the first--even though the player went through another one to get into the loop. Perhaps as he first went into one of the rooms Lotus would add an objective, such as "search for a key in a resource cache" and once it is found the player could progress. That might be taxing on the level system though.

 

A more manageable one to me would be having different doors that lead into a room--but they lead to different sides of the Rift, meaning players have to go through both to kill all enemies. This could be expanded as certain items might only appear in one side of the Rift, including rare items and Mods.

 

Also, please add more enemies to the Void across all factions. Some I'd most want are Corrupted Chargers or Leapers, Scorpions, Napalms, and Snipers.

 

Quests: This might have been somewhat unfair to add to my list, as they are somewhat new, but I want more quests like the very first one: adding story to the game. I would love it if many of the planets were reworked to be first unlocked during a quest. That way story could be added for new players. This could be easily done by reworking old events. Example: At the end of Mars we find out that the Corpus, angry that we have infringed into their space, have begun aggressively militarizing and attacking Grineer ships that have been reported to have Tenno on board. In response, the Grineer, feeling threatened, have declared war, and we have been tasked to help them. As we continue we learn that Alad V has been using the attacks to come up with an excuse to capture Warframes and blend them into Zanuka. This would be a rework of Gravidus that would help players understand the enemies and more about their motives. Going into Jupiter now players understand Alad V, have a rough idea of what his Zanuka ideas are, and understand that he's been capturing Tenno.

 

PVP: A more dedicated PVP with different maps (that could be recycled from the PVE maps) and different game modes could help draw that competitive shooter crowd. Alternatively, if that really wasn't the intention of PVP then maybe it should still be reworked, but only after some of the other things I've listed are dealt with.

 

Certain Frames: Sometimes I wonder if you at DE are seeing what we the players are in regards to these frames. Super Jump, for example, was a bad escape skill as Radial Blind is better, is a hard CC instead of a short escape, barely costs more, and doesn't last long enough to be a worthwhile escape. Super Jump is a good positioner, and that's why I'd suggest that we can hold down the jump button to lead to a higher jump (maybe a max of 5 meters high). In Super Jump's place, I would have some kind of super melee ability that causes unlimited stamina, allows blocked bullets to do 250%+ damage, speeds up his counter meter, and increases Excalibur's overall mobility.

 

Damage 2.0/Mods 2.0: I would like the entire concept of scaling to be reconsidered, and along with it damage mods. In my opinion, many of the mods created could be interesting to use, but ultimately damage is king so they aren't. My guess is at least 60% of MR6+ players use builds of Serration, Split Chamber, and at least two elementals on every single Rifle build. And my guess is the other four slots are split between five or six more DPS upgrades to fire rate, punch-through, more elementals, corrupted/Nightmare damage mods, and Critical chance/damage. There have been a few suggestions: splitting the mods between damage and utility ones (so certain slots forced you to chose the other kind) won't be a real solution, as players would use the other mods more, but still have them trivialized in importance by the damage ones. I think combining certain utility mods would be nice, but I don't think players would let them take precedent over damage ones even then. I don't think just scaling back the damage mods is enough either, as players will still put as many as possible on weapons. Instead, some damage mods, namely elementals and multishot mods, would also need to be redesigned so they don't cause damage increases. I would make elementals convert a percentage of the base damage to the damage of that element, and make multishot increase proc/critical chances, but not cause a base damage increase (so it would split a bullet in half instead of adding an extra one. Although maybe for shotguns this wouldn't be the case.)

 

Enemy level would be changed so that, instead of being based on damage, levels decrease the time enemies spend telegraphing their attacks.

 

Enemy Design: I think most of the new enemy designs since Update 14 have been positive additions. However, I would love it if Butchers, Flameblades, Prodmen, and Powerfists had quick lounge attacks that might be balanced by being canceled by melee damage, and having a higher chance of being stopped by an Impact proc. In addition, Butchers would be replaced around level 20 with upgraded Guardsmen (and a Corpus version) that have all the Butcher's powers and additional bullet blocking abilities. I would redesign snipers as well, as higher damage enemies that attack from further away, but have a red tracer and need several seconds of being able to track the player, without their aim being broken, before they'll pull the trigger. That will make them long-distance high priority targets, that are ineffective on their own but, if a player gets distracted, become deadly.

 

I would also like to add that, after playing the Hyena Facility alert, I've been in love with the idea of more difficult missions having multiple "Superheavies"-- enemies that are almost minibosses and require more teamwork to take down. These would not be as easily killed with powers, have more invulnerable/heavily reduced damage parts and weak points, and generally require more teamwork to take down. Things like mini Lech Krill's (with larger weak points) and Sprag and K'Ventra (the sabotage bosses)-like enemies are other examples besides the Hyenas that are like ones already in the game. I'm not asking for these bosses again, but instead for systems like these.

 

Bonus! Animations: This might not count as helpful, but please do something with Aure7's posts!

 

In conclusion (finally) I understand that DE wants to keep creating new content. But thus far, old content hasn't been addressed enough. So in addition to all the new things DE adds every update/half update, I believe myself and other less new players, as well as some who had stopped playing the game, would be gratified if you went back and completely overhauled some old content that has lots of promise that has yet to be realized. I'm not saying my suggestions are the only way to fix these things; all over the Forums there are others with just as much merit. But I do ask that DE really works to improve these things, and prioritizes one or two of them each update.

Shameful plug here. I have been making an enemy concept compedium over the last few weeks, and would love your feedback on it.

 

As a vet like you, I can empthize with your frustation. I see the potential, and almost feel it in my bones that this will be the game that many have longed for. Thank you for both the original post and this follow-up one.

[Cathair]

Frankly, I clicked on this expecting histrionics, probably harping on the flaws of some obscure facet of gameplay that never even occurred to me.

 

Color me pleasantly surprised to find content that's actually insightful, mostly well-reasoned, and while there is some truth to the disclaimer, relatively civil.

 

Most of the points you make are a breakdown of my own biggest frustrations with this game, from the wildly disparate weapon balance and mod system half-full of objectively useless chaff, to the attitudes and seeming internal schizophrenia of the dev team. I don't know how much good it will do, but thanks for saying what we're all thinking.

[Arunasoul]

I believe it's too late for that. It's kind of hard to restructure the foundation of a skyscraper built in a desert.

 

I believe the foundation of that skyscraper has undergone several large restructurings in the past. Upgrades 1.0 became mods 1.0, then Warframe abilities were torn out of the mod window where they basically wasted space, and added into a the leveling system of the warframe itself.

 

Stamina 1.0 I actually liked better than stamina 2.0 because I could actually slot more things to my caster frames to feel more caster-like, but I understand the change. Honestly, Stamina 1.0 may as well have not even had a stamina bar, something quite a few would probably say was far more enjoyable since ninjas could 'ninja their way around properly' instead of the 2.0 system which restricts ninja movement to the point of feeling like clunky Grineer marines holding cool guns or swords that can occasionally decide to be ninja on some warframes with really low stamina totals. My suggestion would be to outright remove sprinting stamina costs, retain wall running costs and guarding costs, which would enable us to 'ninja within reason' without losing our stamina bar before performing 'ninja-like actions', but that's mostly because 2.0 was still just an 'annoyance' bar instead of an interesting game mechanic that brought depth "AND BALANCE TO THE FORCE" or something equally cool.

 

Also, while I'm not exactly holding my breath on this one because I've found that there's a massive hype train that's probably gotten tensions too high for this already, the 'Focus System' is coming. From what I can tell, that's a significant part of their character customization system that should essentially institute a class system into the game allowing much greater depth. 'Tank' focus Nova obviously wouldn't be the regular choice over 'DPS' focus, but you know what, it might make Nova able to take three shots to the sheet of paper armor she wears without dying, and for that I would probably use it. Personally, I'm hoping there's a 'caster' spec that enables passive energy regen strong enough to maybe cast a power every five, maybe ten seconds so that I can actually try playing a 'wizard' in this game, something I've been hinting at wanting for a VERY long time. Limbo was something that stoked some hopes, because passive regen on Riftwalk is wicked, though I feel like the frame is less of a wizard and more of a thief, assassin, or rogue mixed up with magic, basically a magician like we have who knows how many of here in RL. Regardless of what way 'Focuses' go, there's still a good chance they'll be a good boon to the game's capacity for customization depth at a minimum.

 

Anyway, long story short I think this topic was a tad too soon, and while I sympathize with the original poster, I do think DE is attempting to do something rare here, by creating a masterpiece they've long dreamed of. Archwings are an interesting addition to the game, I look forward to seeing why they deviated from the core gameplay this game was founded around to bring them in. I understand there's a part of the community who's worried and upset that DE essentially added a scaled down Mobile Suit battle to warframe which was supposed to be about space ninjas, not the RX-78 VS Char's Red Zaku 2, however this has potential as an EXPANSION to existing systems. They added a mastery lock out of 2 to the Archwing's deployment so people have to play what Warframe should be before strapping themselves in to literally fly with dual rockets strapped to their arse, so I can only think of that as a sign that they don't intend to run 2 entirely seperate styles of games under the same name, but rather a single game aimed at giving both ground and space combat EVENTUALLY. The nodes we have as archwing only zones might remain that way, I actually expect that they will, since you've got to learn to pilot it somewhere, however I think the end goal of the Archwing is similar to the last mission in it's quest line, do a ground mission then evac via Archwing to an extraction zone.

 

P.S. While it was cool to see Ordis trying to be one of the cool kids bringing us the Archwing and dropping it on us, having to fly nearly 1000 meters or so through space while shooting hostiles for him to extract us seems fairly stupid when flying upward 10 inches to the point he literally dropped the Archwing on us from would have clearly allowed him to reach us on his next pass through the zone. If someone could add some kind of plot-like reason for that, that would be great. Not expecting much though, considering Vor's Prize was the last time I really actually saw something I could call a story instead of a game event, the story team is probably still locked within the Void Quarters, prancing with the naked fairies of inspiration, muse, and prose. Using Corpus sentry guns to shoot DE employees attempting to get updates from them in the buttocks with lasers set to singed butt cheek humiliation, meaning that no sane member of the staff approaches the Void Quarters anymore, for strange smoke and smells coming from one's singed buttocks would likely be embarrassing for rational beings to handle.

[PixalatedVortex]

Some of this is true except one part that was completely false was "unfriendly staff" DE is one of the nicest companies I have ever seen

[Arunasoul]

i also looked at this but if you look at the rewards what they did, well atleast to me, was they looked at weapons and skills people dont really use and used those for the mutator mods as a means of getting people interested again in using them. cuz i mean why use a hek or sobek if there is boar prime in the game, why use skana if there is the nikana etc. but by making these the weapons that benefit from the syndicates it might get people to use them more, i guess that was the ideology they went with.

 

Wait, wait wait.... that weapons and skills people don't really use part....

 

Did anyone else see the Hek and Vauban Tesla grenade? >.>

 

In all honesty though, I did notice the same pattern, however I don't know if it's really a valid concept to give super specific mods to garbage in an attempt to make them used again, it just sounds like they might hit mediocre or average at best in most cases with the mod. The only one I really recognize as 'ground breaking' is the Furis mod which grants lifesteal on a pistol. I mean really, life steal on a gun? Like, I could go down to one health and get my health back up with shooting instead of closing in on a massive group of 50000000000000000000000000000000000000 enemies now? I have to say that one was a great move, though I still think 'life strike' should be added to more weapon categories. The rest of the mods are like 'status chance 20%' on weapons that don't exactly have 60% base status to make a mere 20% actually important in comparison to the cream of the crop +100% base damage boosters.

 

Honestly, it feels like I shouldn't even bother with most of the non-raw dmg boosters because their on garbage weapons in the first place. I mean really, 20 range on the spectra? The damage of the gun is the biggest limiting factor due to ammo economy of continuous fire weapons, not the fact it's a laser knife, so making it a laser sword doesn't really change much now does it? That's one example of many mods that likely aren't going to make a 'ground breaking' change in a weapon that was already bottom of the barrel. The Hek on the other hand was god-tier before the supreme hammer of all things nerf gave the wet noodle treatment to lady boomstick, then subsequently released the launcher weapons which completely eclipsed all prior weapon types for a VERY, VERY long time before the supreme hammer found it's way to the launcher's patron saint too.

 

Now, in all honestly, their ARE good ones in that batch of very odd and strangely alluring weapon mods, mostly the Furis mod though. All hail the life steal. Still, the 'status duration' mod on the Acrid? Ooooh how that could 'sting' (Insert over used reference along the lines of 'yeahhhhhh!'), considering the Acrid was once the god of all things ouch, I mean, before being COMPLETELY upstaged by massive burst weapons that flattened entire rooms as the Acrid gave someone the tip of the needle. Grinlock 200% crit chance I don't remember being OVERLY amazing, because when I see that kinda number on a mod, I immediately think I should be approaching if not firmly inside red crit territory with my headshot flag claiming land in the name of noob slaying, but DANG was that an overestimation when I ran the numbers. I think it was still like 67% crit chance even after applying 200% boost with other crit mods. I still applaud the idea of a 200% crit chance booster, but it should have been for something that actually had a solid crit chance in the first place, like a 20 or 25% range kind of weapon. 60% 'Dead Eye' makes no sense to me, considering it's the name of a mod, not an effect, but hey, probably a typo meaning zoom which also means that a super long range sniping weapon may have just been born (not much in demand, but hey, Limbo can make his own killing ground anywhere he wants while phasing himself out of harms way to aim at it so it's not like it's totally wrong for everyone). I think it was the Embolist which had a massive magazine enhancement mod, to which I myself am not personally stoked because a melee range pistol screams 'WHY' at the top of it's extensive lung capacity, but it's got to be nice on the gun, if not really ground breaking for it since a range boost would have likely been far more useful, still a good move to think about 200% magazine caps though. 

 

I still think that, in summary, 99% of the weapon mods released would have been close to a million times more useful as either 'unlocked' (meaning able to be slotted on anything) or at least on weapons 1 step down from the top range of weapons in the game if DE was trying to boost the number of actually used available weapon models. Mostly because bottom of the barrel really only shifted weapons one step above them to the bottom of the barrel now that mods exist for bottom of the barrel, with the exception of a few old favorites that were unused due to the appearance of so many amazing guns after them (Hek and Acrid were community favorites for a bit, trust me, I have a master's symbol for a reason, I've been here a long time. Dude, I didn't say that made me smart, only patient and supportive of what Warframe could be yet continues to either stray from, miss the mark, or hit it for ten seconds before hotfix X.X.1 hits. I've seen this game hit a whole new level of awesome then self nerf because it fears it's own awesome more times than I can count, and I can count really high!)

 

Now then, off to start a topic on what Faction Mods could be, not that it's likely to happen but hey, worth a shot. I know they've at least read the forums because a few ideas I had back in 2013 are basically starting to happen now in 2014.

 

P.S. I'm not taking credit for what DE has brought to the community, however similarity is obvious in U15 to a previous topic I started with a massive wall of text. Primarily the difference appears to be that specific game modes and types i suggested are unused, but the core system appears implemented with the faction system. Either way, DE brought a unique twist to it I did not suggest, so I state again I'm not taking credit. It's clearly their own work, regardless of what percentage was born from ideas I gave them FREELY, as was the purpose of the ideas section, to improve the game. For those curious types who are going to hunt through my profile's topics for the answer, the topic title includes 'Tenno', the rest is yours to find.

[CBAROG]

Nice read, OP. I agree completely.

[aavvdkdk]

I've been very worried about the future of Warframe, ever since the new UI came I've realised that the most fun Warframe ever has been was when i started playing. Going through the system with basic weapons and my starter frame (Mag), whose powers were actually difficult to use back then(except Crush). It made the frame fun and exciting. It didn't matter that every map was the same, that the only enemies were grineer and corpus troops. Everything since then has just thinned the soup for me. Getting more weapons was awesome, when the weapons were actually not just mastery. I really hoped that the ninja-updates warframe needed back then came, but they didn't (Stealth is still being talked about, just one example).

I find myself in (somewhat) the same shoes as OP, and it's really sad. Warframe could've been great, but they went in a different direction. I'm not bashing DE, the whole team is working so hard making this game. It just feels like DE went a totally different direction than what I( and apparently many others) had expected/wished for. If given the choice between Warframe at open beta launch (which is where i joined) and the Warframe now, there'd be no contest at all, and that feels weird. 

[SmilingReaper]

DE seems to have decided having a "wide" game--one with lots of shallow content, is better than having a deep game. That's what's killing all of us on this thread. There are so many things Warframe has that scream potential when they're released, but are never given the depth necessary to make them special.

 

Look at Invasions. Players here on the Forums have been suggesting multiple battles, minibosses, a raid as the last completion, and many other things to improve them since they were first implemented. Yet it's still "complete 5 missions for 35000 credits."

 

Look at Nightmare Missions. So much potential, yet all we get is "run a mission without shields for a chance at a mod."

 

Look at the Void. That new Limbo frame seems to be calling to the Void, begging it to do strange things with players and enemies moving throughout dimensions, with crazy impossible geometry and challenging traps. We also could use more enemy variety and bosses. But we just get "play Survival in a white room, to get a key for another one of these missions as a reward."

 

Look at Quests. I said "story!" DE said "normal missions with some dialogue".

 

Look at Dark Sectors. For a little while, PvP seemed like it would bring something different. Yet the system is still nearly as flawed and shallow as it was at implementation.

 

Look at many of the frames: Excalibur, Nekros, Ember. So much potential for these concepts, but ultimately not special at anything.

 

Look at the mods: all they do is increase stats. Very few make a meaningful difference to the game.

 

Look at the base combat itself: Enemies come in two varieties: low health and low damage, and moderate health and high damage. Few change combat in a meaningful way, or make players approach them differently. Stealth is a good joke, as is not using any of a select 10 or so weapons in each category.

 

But DE is, slowly, adding depth. The Infested are better enemies than they were before, and the Drahk sounds promising. Melee is coming together finally. Bosses are more fun now.

 

The question is will they ever prioritize that depth, and build their game around that rather than width. If not, all the game will become is a collection of half-baked ideas.

 

 

I've been playing since update 7. I remember my first time stepping in with my friend who recommended this to me. We did the first few missions on mercury, killed the red vor, then did a corpus mission. When we did our first infested mission, I looked to the ground to see gross wiggly things and I yelled "OOOOH GOOOD WHAT IS THAT?!". I was scared. And my friend and I would challenge ourselves to do stealth runs and not set off an alarm because, back then, you couldn't turn it off. It was that charm that I spent so much time and money into.

 

Now, as you have said, it has been made to massive horde mode. Enemy spawns are absolutely ridiculous and there are missions that feed off of that. The most popular missions are now Survival, Defense and Interception, plus Excavation. Why? Allows for horde mode. Ironically, not all frames can handle so many enemies in one room. Unless you are a particular frame with a particular moveset (Loki Invis, Ash Bladestorm, Nova MP) you will not survive. It's disgusting. And it is burrowing into the mindset of others. This is one reason why people have given so much negative feedback on Limbo. Why? He handles well in rooms of 8 or so enemies, but not in horde mode 20 to a small hallway.

 

Compared to the charm that I saw back in U7, I now just go in the mission, run around killing stuff as fast as I can before I get torn apart, then get on the ship and do it again, hoping I get closer to making something that makes the process go by faster. My friend doesn't even play the game anymore, no matter how many times I tell him to check it out. He's just done.

 

This game has just been spead too thin for its own good. I will say, Archwing is a welcoming new addition, but it is the same thing still: go here, kill a swarm of enemies...only now IN SPACE. The game needs depth. Start by giving us a reason NOT to kil everyone in the room. Boom, game changed.

 

The main problem is what you have stated: the devs don't know what the future is for this game. More importantly, they are not seeing what will be the FINISHED product, where production ends.

 

I love this game to death. But it needs less new and more girth.

 

 

I don't think that's what the game is. I'd say it's more like DE decided to build the biggest city ever, but all their buildings are just foundations. Every time they sit down and start to seriously think about finishing one, they think of all the other, different buildings they could start and forget about it.

 

 

This. They make foundations all over the place, and when we point to an unfinished building that was advertised as a shining spire of glass and steel, they shower us in blueprints for the next building to be erected, an even taller skyscraper of gold and marble. But they did this one time too many. The void. The derelicts. The dojos. The dark sectors. The kubrows. The melee. The syndicates. The archwing. All started, none anywhere near finished. The void is still a mess of cluttered drop tables with a few gimmicks and placeholder ennemies. The derelicts were optimised but otherwise stayed the same. The dojos got a trickle of cosmetics and teleporters, but still has nothing to do in it. Melee 2.0 barely improved anything. The fancy stances are useless and chanelling is just charge attacks costing energy. The syndicates are a ridiculous grind for subpar mods and cosmetics. The archwing... Well it's archwing. Wyrmius would be more entertaining.

 

 

This is a perfect description of the problem.

 

D-E is improving on this, but progress is painfully slow for those of us who've been here a year or more. Bear in mind the quest system just came out a few months ago with Update 14. Updated Rescue missions (arguably a genius implementation of Stealth, at least at the final part) were also a recent addition. The Sling Stone mission, among other time-limited events, had an interesting gimmick that was never built upon. The last mission of The Archwing quest is unparalleled genius in my opinion. Confrontations with bosses like those between the player and Alad V in his assassination mission feels personal. More random Assassins like the Harvestor and Gustraag Three make for an interesting distraction during missions. These are all hints that D-E is edging towards depth. They know how to build a scene, they simply fail to build up to or follow-up on them. There's little sense of continuity and narrative.

 

I really hope they elaborate and add story quests to the Syndicates, that player lobbies will lead to NPC "town"-like locales where players can go and interact with the world beyond blowing things up, and, as was discussed in a recent Devstream, invasions where players defend colonists to hold onto neutral or allied territory and get to see an actual urban environment. Now if Steve would just reconsider adding little kid NPCs clinging to stuffed bears for us to rescue! :D

 

D-E needs to realize that Warframe is currently too "dungeon" heavy, and that the world needs to come to the player every once and a while instead of the player taking all the initiative. The Archwing's last mission was a step in that direction, because it had narrative, surprise (for the characters), rising action and a climax. Unfortunately, it lacked a proper resolution, with Tenno councils and NPCs discussing this most recent development as the player looks on and considers their next move. Instead, it was sort of a "oh well, that's over with" moment.

 

And seriously, we need random mid-boss rooms to pop up in missions (Mega Man X style) to break up monotony. Having all these mission types and barring rare exception keeping them on relatively static objectives is wasted potential because the player is never engaged or surprised. Everything is a fetch quest.

 

This recent stock deal has me worried about D-E's future priorities, but I hope they will maintain the course and start building up the world they've so carefully seeded.

 

After carefully reading through this entire thing, I have to say besides OP these are the most insightful posts I've seen, that seem to carry most players in-depth concerns about the game, the reason of much unhappiness, unrest, or just overall anxiety that keeps popping up thread after thread after thread.

 

I think overall DE is making a good job and frankly I really like the staff and how communicative they are with the community and around the forum, you can tell these people are actually making the game, that they are not just some guy in a suit reaping benefits that's never even been working on the project personally. This is the work of these people, given life by its community, it's players who despite their (sometimes very poor) choice of words, you can tell they love this game.

 

Most of said community has been around for quite a while, a lot of die-hard players that have been around since Update 7 like myself, and some newer. But I fear not as many as there could be... And I think the reason for that is not "lack of new content", I mean there's always something new eventually, either a new weapon, or an event, or something.

 

I think the reasons for much of the disappointement over time is written in the posts above, the core mechanics of the game, the core of it, remains the same while shiny new things (mind you, some new things are really cool but it just feels lackluster after a while, and I don't think it's because such a thing as "bluh bluh so bad Devs" or "bluh bluh so bad players" either) are added to the game to keep people entertained. I mean this is obviously a concern, having new things to play with or new things to do, imagine if you didn't get anything new for a while you'd feel like a child abandoned by a parental figure.

 

But then again... Some of the people I've introduced to the game didn't like it or could not get the handle of it because of the tutorial not being newbie friendly enough. I've watched playthroughs of people in youtube being really excited about the game, only to end up finishing the tutorial and having no idea that things could be bought of for free by purchasing a blueprint instead of having to spend platinum. That sounds like something that should have been explained more carefully in the tutorial.

 

This is just for saying one of the things that comes to mind right now.

 

The game has a thousand very, very cool concepts and things that could be expanded upon and made great and entertaining, but it kind of feels they're added, left makeshift (or minimal indispensate to be running), and then they move on to make something new and repeat, instead of going back to further expand on past stuff, like some of these posts detailed. Don't misunderstand me, the new things when introduced are good and fresh, alas after a while it always leaves you hanging like "Oh this is kinda a bit lacking now, could be made better here or there, but oh man think of how great this will be when they expand upon this, this could be fenomenal" but that usually rarely happens in the midst of yet more and new content, and it kind of repeats that process.

 

Great ideas, great concepts, some very capable people working on those things but they're not quite done with those things and they're already working on something new. There are very good and exciting ideas among them. But it feels sometimes like if they had to get out something new ASAP.

 

I think new content done quickly, with the basics covered, and being out and implemented will keep the players happy for a week or two (even though they complain about bugs and such) but when they get whatever prize behind the new content was well, they're done. Unless they have to help a friend get it.

 

 

One content that has been expanded upon, and been done through and through will keep them entertained for as long as they keep playing the game, because it'd be fun and interesting. It doesn't have to be brand new, never ever seen before, to meet those requirements or achievements so to say. 

 

To quote "WiiConquered"

 

 

 

Look at Invasions. Players here on the Forums have been suggesting multiple battles, minibosses, a raid as the last completion, and many other things to improve them since they were first implemented. Yet it's still "complete 5 missions for 35000 credits."

 

This for example, Invasion missions with multiple battles, minibosses, a raid as a competition, maybe even some dark-sector like conflict between different player factions. That would be insanely fun, and invasion missions would be hot stuff immediately and forever, synonymous of fun wherever it may be found. Of course, it'd have to be "rewarding" but it doesn't have to be that much when the fun you're getting out of it pays for itself. Invasion missions already have their rewards, just gotta find something proper to make players not feel like they're losing their time over it when compared to the usual gameplay, which is, let's face it, farming for something. So just add some farming component on it that it's not the main purpose of it, but rather some complement to it. Something cool, even if you already farmed everything there was to farm in the game to feel you're gaining something from it.

 

And as the game gets fleshed out more like this, I guess farming becomes secondary and the whole "farm, rank, sell" becomes secondary, a complement to the actual fun gameplay that is stuff like that, that you look forward to it and that's why you'd like to have another weapon or rise your rank.

 

I'm terribly sorry if I've offended someone in the making of this post, inadvertedly or because of my choice of words. Or made it unintelligible. The things I've said are said from an outside point of view, it reflects strongly how I, and from what I've read an overwhelming many others feel about things.

What I said, or tried to, it's not mean to be taken like a "you're doing a bad job, bluh bluh" kind of thing, but merely as feedback. I very much think DE is dedicated, and if anything, capable and communicative while at it. I don't think they're afraid of saying "We might have been going wrong about this" or "We did poorly with something, let's make up for it" as it has happened in the past, and I think that's one of the things that make DE stand out over the rest as devs.

 

Changes like Damage 2.0 have been amazing, compared to how things were back then.

 

I hope at least, someone from DE gets to see this.

Thanks for reading, if you got all the way to here.

Edited October 30, 2014 by SmilingReaper

[CephalonShy]

Can i have your stuff?

[Kaian-a-coel]

I can appreciate a healthy rant, but I do not appreciate profanity and attempts to bypass the word filter. Please, keep the language appropriate. 

Even though the OP called it a "redundant rant" I noticed the constructive feedback buried in there. Example:

Sure. Because the feedback about this particular gun is definitively the most important part of this topic, and not the pages of complaints about the shallowness of the game as a whole and the abandonment of half-built features.

[Temmron]

The point I'm trying to make is that DE should listen to the veteran players. The massive amount of game experience present among the top players of this game is a huge resource that any developer would love to have. Please, DE, use us. The Design Council is a good start, but I feel like there could be something like a Review Council, or even Bug-Hunting Council. There's got to be a better name, but it's late, and I can't think of one. The requirements would be a minimum MR and number of hours in the game as a start. The point of such a group would be to review how the game has progressed and come together to suggest the biggest issues that need addressing. To an extent, this is what the forums are for, however, the forums are only regulated and reviewed in that they are kept "clean" from language and such. We need a way to make sure DE hears the major suggestions of the experienced players in this game. Maybe something like Community Hot Topics, but more regulated perhaps. Anyway, it's late, and I feel like I'm rambling now. Have a good night everyone.

I support this fully

While I dont want to admit that the last update was just a money-grabbing action, I really have to say DE has overdone it with the pay/time walls and the grind problem of syndicates this time (Dont get me wrong I LOVE the syndicates) and  archwing needs many adjustments because hes just frustrating to play with the low drop chance and only 2 mission types. I can understand the mission deficit though and can wait for more variety.

This resembles more an asian mmorpg grind game that you get tired of very fast, if you dont have a reliable end-game availible which DE has not at the moment.

The forums are very crowded with so many new players joining the game

It seems to me that the many important topics and ideas that NEED a look at are drowned in rather unexperienced comments from newer players ( No critisicm their comments can be usefull too)

Please open up this veteran and experienced comments section that you can post threads and ideas on for us to evaluate BEFORE release to HELP you.

We want this game to be awesome too. I mean you can still do what you think is the right way for the product afterwards anyway, but sometimes it is just hard for developers to place themselves in the roles of players and think in different mind sets.

 

What we need is more parcour, more enemies with interesting mechanics, more bosses with interesting mechanics, more tilesets, better mission mechanics that require teamwork (like splitting up or doing things in a certain order or helping trapped players by killing specific enemies/finding a special key/pressing a specific button, stealth segments were stealth is actually NEEDED) and more bugfixing

We dont need more weapons or Warframes, or archwings or kubrows

hell I would be fine with my mk1-braton if it were the only weapon in game. I actually like that weapon but ultimately its useless

The problem is atm people only run the missions for the rewards and dont care for anything else. of course there should be rewards but it should add to the game and not take away from it

Edited October 30, 2014 by Seyenas

[TheFapman69]

While I agree a lot of things still need work and there are times where I question if DE is fully paying attention to some feedback about common issues, that's not exactly going to keep me from enjoying the game as a whole for what it does have to offer that is fun. Besides, this is STILL IN BETA and for some reason has been for 2 years if you count the closed beta. 

[Zuijin]

I like WF and I believe DE's crew is one of the best team out there for many reasons.

But I agree with the OP: many of the recent changes to warframe appeared to me as a dumbing down of mechanics or good ideas but poorly realized (trinity and excalibur tweaks for instance). What I think WF need is not new content but a serious rework of what we have (I draw the line with archwings: I hardly find them needed in a game with space ninja. They are new and shiny, but I feel them empty of purpose).

How to properly address power creep? Buffing low tier weapons could be a way out of this: is it normal that the braton prime (biggest slash damage for a rifle) need 6 forma to be competitive?

But ofc, buffing can't be the only answer: I believe giving choices or a proper rework to some mechanic would be nice.

For instance: in one of the last devstreams Mr Mcgregor (Scott[DE]) talked about some ideas about >100% proc status, giving stronger effect (example, a >100% radiation could cause a mind controlling buff for 10 seconds).

That would put many weapons with low stats in a new light (tysis and serro among the others).

But after that devstream, no news were heard anymore about it and I think that's a waste, because only mechanics like that one would solve some of the power creep problem: they would offer a different choice, parallel to raw DPS.

 

Or simply polishing the native code of warframe would be a major achievement: 2 years in beta and we still have matchmaking bugs? Strict Nat? Connection hiccups that widespread?

Excavations tilesets are wonderful (I LOVE europa) and I'm sure music's department are a bunch of hardworkers: really, thank you for it.

But we still have oppressive RNG to confront with: a level 0 vitality should NOT be a reward for 10 waves of interception on pluto. Or uncommon fusion cores in t3 void towers (especially MD, Ext, Cap).

There should be some more certainty about the reward we get, additional objectives to complete as a team to get better rewards (kill all enemies in melee for instance.)

Also, I hardly find grind (for reputation or resources) end game content.

And so on.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Zuijin