Buggy Release

[SolomonGunn]

Heya'll

 

Actually. regardless any issue the game is awesome, I came back after a year or so not playing due work and such, and it's amazing how the game has improved or evolved... Even games that are on "Alpha" state are yet bugged and glitchy, but haven't seen a game like this online, very unique.

 

And despite everything I see hotfixes all the time, which means the dev team is working on the problems, which you can't really say the same about most online games that is, much less on free to play ones.

 

Sure DE might be embarrassed, as any other developer having issues with their delivered product, and there is no shame on it, because they clearly are working on making a fun and solid game for us, so kudos for that.

 

The best thing we players can do is chill out, enjoy the game and report bugs while on it. Support the games that makes you happy.

 

Peace.

[Wolfglaive]

They would've released bug-free U15 tomorrow or on Tuesday, but some idiots wanted it on Friday, so DE released it with tons of bugs and they were forced to pull an all-nighter to fix some of the most annoying bugs ASAP. This is their fault - by their I mean the idiots who wanted U15 ASAP.

No, it's not because people wanted it now. We've waited longer for this update than most others, and I don't think many would have minded waiting a week or two more. Here's the deal, DE wouldn't have been able to release a totally bug-free U15. It's not feasible. There are hundreds of thousands of us playing the game actively, with somewhere in the millions of accounts that have been made. What does that mean? Let's say they have twenty people actively testing for bugs, for a week. Great. Now every time a bug is found, ten of those twenty have to stop to go fix the bug. Now, let's say that one hundred thousand people download the update immediately upon release and play for an hour.  They've already surpassed the week of man hours from the twenty people, and now all twenty of them are free to work on fixing bugs.

[-skimmer-]

Im honestly surprised how much work they can do in a short while. A single mega update dedicated to polishing would still be appreciated.

[FrackingBiscuit]

Funny how DE's "Volunteers" are also their source of income.

 

And yes, I know what crowdsourcing is. I don't see that word here. I see BETA, and that beta label is an excuse.

 

So you're a vetted authority figure on what games are and are not in beta?  Can you give us the objective reasons to why Warframe is not in beta and therefore should not have bugs in update?

 

Or are you just upset that your vidya isn't working?

[Xriborg]

And I really don't want that.  If you look at the game, it has so much more undiscovered potential.

By keeping it in beta, it allows DE to make so many changes, and to have a lot more freedom. 

This game is constantly evolving, and I LIKE that.

If you don't, then too bad.  I disagree.

 

I'm ok with that. What I want is polish. I want DE to take that extra month and test their crap thoroughly instead of dumping it on us. Something that you can be proud to call yourself a fan of.

 

I try and get people to play this game, and it's HARD. It's really hard to explain away why they got stuck, why they failed their mastery rank and have to wait a day, why the quest got stuck and they don't know how to progress.

 

"Oh...it's in beta."

"Oh ok. When is it being released?"

"I don't know."

"What do they have left to do to release it?"

"I don't know..."

 

It sucks how I feel like I'm conning people when this comes up.

 

 

And what is your excuse? You play the game, yes?

 

Do you ENJOY the game? If not then why do you keep playing it?

 

I DO enjoy it and I know I am not alone.

 

What's my excuse for WHAT? I play this game because underneath the mismanagement is something worth arguing about and something worth saving. I get frustrated when I see the same mistakes being made over and over again. The mistake is quantity over quality. Pushing things out before they're ready.

[The_Hanged_Man]

It may not look like it but its still beta. Complain about buggy updates after they do a mega "polish everything" update and go for release.

It's really hard to take seriously something that has a cash shop for real money, with special early-access packages on top of that referencing old parts of the game, and still call it a 'beta'. It's a really poor excuse. MMOs are hard to design, and I think a lot of players get that. But the amount of bugs(and not just bugs, but game-breaking bugs like falling through the world/glitching out and having to restart) that follow every release(And sometimes still persist through updates) show a total lack of internal QA, or a deliberate ignoring of QA. Open Beta is for players to test yes, but in game design there should(and in most games are) an internal playtesting run to make sure the most glaring bugs are fixed before players get their hands on it. I shouldn't be able to fly in archwing inside a zeplen's model and completely glitch out the camera simply by flying into it.

[RahuHordika]

They would've released bug-free U15 tomorrow or on Tuesday, but some idiots wanted it on Friday, so DE released it with tons of bugs and they were forced to pull an all-nighter to fix some of the most annoying bugs ASAP. This is their fault - by their I mean the idiots who wanted U15 ASAP.

You know, the naivety of posts like these amuse me.

I wonder how many people are aware that no matter how much DE delayed the content, in a major update, bugs are ALWAYS going to be a thing.

And it isn't even exclusive to DE, this is a thing common for online games.

[Xriborg]

So you're a vetted authority figure on what games are and are not in beta?  Can you give us the objective reasons to why Warframe is not in beta and therefore should not have bugs in update?

 

Or are you just upset that your vidya isn't working?

 

Lol. Well I am a little upset that my game isn't working. That's why I'm complaining about it. That's why this thread exists.

 

 

The reasons why Warframe should not be considered beta.

 

-No plans for eventual emergence from beta to full release.

-One time events taking place in beta. Why would you exclude content to those who wait for a full release?

-Exclusive items for purchase during beta. (Prime accessories) Same reasoning as above.

-Full price market. No way to test some items/functionality without paying for it.

 

But no. There isn't a good answer to either question. But I offer this...

 

I can reverse this question, why shouldn't this game be considered full release? Aside from bugs and the label DE gives it, what is this game missing that objectively defines this game as a beta? Why would you tack on expansion like features to a beta?

 

Beta has become a dirty grey area. And it's one that companies are taking advantage of. There's no difference in development strategy between a game like this, and other free to play games that release new content regularly.

 

However, DE's releases are really REALLY buggy. I know there are bugs only we are going to catch. But there's a difference between having some bugs and being totally broken, having the community do ALL heavy lifting when it comes to bug reports. At what point do they stop testing entirely, and just give us whatever they code up without even launching it for functionality? This is a slippery slope, and DE is slipping further and further down it with each release.

[zavienh5]

Why do you think this forum is called PC beta bugs?

idk y, i just never look at the word beta, since like I only play this free to play and another and never knew free to play betas can last this long.  Cuz games like CoD only has like 3 month beta.  And so after Warframe is outta beta, whats it gonna be like...?

[TheErebus.]

 

-No plans for eventual emergence from beta to full release.

-One time events taking place in beta. Why would you exclude content to those who wait for a full release?

-Exclusive items for purchase during beta. (Prime accessories) Same reasoning as above.

-Full price market. No way to test some items/functionality without paying for it.

 

But no. There isn't a good answer to either question. But I offer this...

 

I can reverse this question, why shouldn't this game be considered full release? Aside from bugs and the label DE gives it, what is this game missing that objectively defines this game as a beta? Why would you tack on expansion like features to a beta?

 

Beta has become a dirty grey area. And it's one that companies are taking advantage of. There's no difference in development strategy between a game like this, and other free to play games that release new content regularly.

 

However, DE's releases are really REALLY buggy. I know there are bugs only we are going to catch. But there's a difference between having some bugs and being totally broken, having the community do ALL heavy lifting when it comes to bug reports. At what point do they stop testing entirely, and just give us whatever they code up without even launching it for functionality? This is a slippery slope, and DE is slipping further and further down it with each release.

The game is un-finished and I remember the devs saying that the full release is projected some time next year. 

They are also bringing back the exclusive content. The mods that were in Cicero Crisis is being brought in via bosses like Corrupted Vor.

Oh yeah, because SUPPORTING THE GAME WHEN IT NEEDED MONEY TO LIFT ITSELF IS A SIGN IT ISN'T A BETA.

Oh ok. So erm...where can they get their money from then?

 

Because if it is to be considered a finished game, it would be a lousy one that has core gameplay constantly changed. A full release game doesn't do that. They will have everything set in stone, but with things like melee 2.0, mods 2.0 and abilities 2.0, it constantly changes everything in the game, and none of them have been set in stone with DE saying "Ok, that is it. Everything we've done is now the way we think will be best. No more major changes to the core mechanics".

[Xriborg]

idk y, i just never look at the word beta, since like I only play this free to play and another and never knew free to play betas can last this long.  Cuz games like CoD only has like 3 month beta.  And so after Warframe is outta beta, whats it gonna be like...?

 

Funny. This brought up an interesting point.

 

The beta label is really hard to find. Don't see it in the Steam page. Launcher. Front page of the site. When you're signing up.

 

Why? DE only wants you to think it's a beta when you're complaining about bugs, not when you're gearing up to try out the game.

[TheErebus.]

Funny. This brought up an interesting point.

 

The beta label is really hard to find. Don't see it in the Steam page. Launcher. Front page of the site. When you're signing up.

 

Why? DE only wants you to think it's a beta when you're complaining about bugs, not when you're gearing up to try out the game.

So I reckon you don't remember the first thing you see when you open up the launcher hm?

The beta online agreement?

No?

ok.

[CHunterX]

geeze, what do you expect? they cant exactly fix every bug on launch, and they clearly fix them as soon as possible.

They could start by fixing existing bugs rather than just adding more and more bugged content.

[Xriborg]

The game is un-finished and I remember the devs saying that the full release is projected some time next year. 

 

Can you figure out where this was said? I want to see it. Not trying to be rude or disbelieving, this would actually change my stance on some things.

 

 

They are also bringing back the exclusive content. The mods that were in Cicero Crisis is being brought in via bosses like Corrupted Vor.

 

That's not content. Those are rewards. Are they going to redo all of the exclusive events?

 

 

Oh ok. So erm...where can they get their money from then?

 

 

Investors apparently... You know, like they just did. Not every game needs their customers buying it before it's done. 99% of games never did. This type of monetization model is pretty new.

 

 

Because if it is to be considered a finished game, it would be a lousy one that has core gameplay constantly changed. A full release game doesn't do that. They will have everything set in stone, but with things like melee 2.0, mods 2.0 and abilities 2.0, it constantly changes everything in the game, and none of them have been set in stone with DE saying "Ok, that is it. Everything we've done is now the way we think will be best. No more major changes to the core mechanics".

 

Look at WoW. That game is almost fundamentally unrecognizable from it's original release. They changed core mechanics quite a bit, and they had actual betas that ended before customers got their hands on the game.

[Xriborg]

So I reckon you don't remember the first thing you see when you open up the launcher hm?

The beta online agreement?

No?

ok.

 

Nope. I honestly didn't remember that.

 

You remember the contents of every EULA you read? No? Why is that? Maybe because it's legal coverage that companies don't necessarily want you to acknowledge consciously. Kinda like the fast talking guy at the end of medication commercials.

[TheErebus.]

Can you figure out where this was said? I want to see it. Not trying to be rude or disbelieving, this would actually change my stance on some things.

 

 

 

That's not content. Those are rewards. Are they going to redo all of the exclusive events?

 

 

 

Investors apparently... You know, like they just did. Not every game needs their customers buying it before it's done. 99% of games never did. This type of monetization model is pretty new.

 

 

 

Look at WoW. That game is almost fundamentally unrecognizable from it's original release. They changed core mechanics quite a bit, and they had actual betas that ended before customers got their hands on the game.

I'm not sure when. I believe DESteve said it during a devstream. I'll look through when I get the chance.

 

Content = Rewards of in-game items you can get. I don't see a difference.

 

The only way they get money from Warframe is from us. The majority of it comes from those who purchase plat.

 

I've never played WoW, so I cannot counter this without having to do some background research on it

Nope. I honestly didn't remember that.

 

You remember the contents of every EULA you read? No? Why is that? Maybe because it's legal coverage that companies don't necessarily want you to acknowledge consciously. Kinda like the fast talking guy at the end of medication commercials.

 

It says it twice in bold in the very beginning.

[Xriborg]

 

Content = Rewards of in-game items you can get. I don't see a difference.

 

 

The game content is the event, not the reward. The event contains a reward at the end. The fact that you don't see a difference between the content and the reward is telling of the nature of grind in this game, but that's a different argument.

 

-screenshot-

 

It says it twice in bold in the very beginning.

 

 

And then you never see it again. Looks pretty EULA to me. I didn't say it never exists. I'm saying it's hard to find, meaning it's likely not going to register in one's consciousness when they start playing.

[TheErebus.]

The game content is the event, not the reward. The event contains a reward at the end. The fact that you don't see a difference between the content and the reward is telling of the nature of grind in this game, but that's a different argument.

 

 

 

And then you never see it again. Looks pretty EULA to me. I didn't say it never exists. I'm saying it's hard to find, meaning it's likely not going to register in one's consciousness when they start playing.

I don't grind for items in the game. Well, not as extensively as some others.

 

It is the EULA, but it is still evidence that the game is still in beta and they do in fact state that it is.

Honestly, I go with what the Devs believe in. If they think the game that they are developing isn't finished yet, then it isn't finished. I also have faith and trust in DE that they will release the game soon ( and not the "soon" joke that is said to release dates, I genuinely mean that they release it some time in like a few more months or so") because I can understand where people are getting at to say that it is finished.

The game looks amazing, it plays very well and it is very enjoyable. 

 

I'm far too tired right now (it's 11:16 PM where I am), so I'm just gonna take my leave.

 

 

[bear38122]

DE should not have released this on a Friday unless they wanted to work the weekend.  This game is jacked up with flight and mods a galaxy away and why not surv or def for Archwing?  Jesus  In the last hour on ext I have had to restart the game 3 times and it has crashed twice.   Can't even play it  DAMN

Edited October 26, 2014 by yrrej

[Xriborg]

I don't grind for items in the game. Well, not as extensively as some others.

 

It is the EULA, but it is still evidence that the game is still in beta and they do in fact state that it is.

Honestly, I go with what the Devs believe in. If they think the game that they are developing isn't finished yet, then it isn't finished. I also have faith and trust in DE that they will release the game soon ( and not the "soon" joke that is said to release dates, I genuinely mean that they release it some time in like a few more months or so") because I can understand where people are getting at to say that it is finished.

The game looks amazing, it plays very well and it is very enjoyable. 

 

I'm far too tired right now (it's 11:16 PM where I am), so I'm just gonna take my leave.

 

 

Look, I don't hate the game. I don't hate the devs. I hate some of their decisions, and some of the shortcuts they've decided to take. We're all here because we love this game, and we haven't given up on it.

 

I guess time will tell whether they ever release it or not. My gut says no, because the beta label benefits them in every way, but I could be wrong.

 

Go get some rest. I'll look for evidence of a release date myself.

[Kalenath]

Well, since you BELIEVE the EULA is wrong... (A BINDING LEGAL CONTRACTUAL DOCUMENT in case you don't know...)

 

Feel FREE to contact DE and ORDER them to change it. (Since you are right and everyone else is wrong, they HAVE to listen to you, right?)

 

 

Let me know how that works out for you.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Kalenath

[FrozenDreams619]

Well after reading all three pages of this post i would to know how many people here had issue with fps and crashes on the first mission of archwind . I would like to know because put your self in the place of people who had like 60 to 70 fps befor u 15 and know they need to wait like 4 minutes to load a game in the middle of the game they freez have low fps and can't enjoy the game correctly and when they go and lok on the forum hopping to see a DE members saying that they are working on this issue then maybe or opinion of the game would change i played like to games in beta but it's first i see a game that needs more than 4 hotfixes after they do a big update i just don't finded normal so i realy want here at that precise moment who has still issue with the new update like drops fps crashes freezing and is not complaining about it who i would like to know

[Xriborg]

Well, since you BELIEVE the EULA is wrong... (A BINDING LEGAL CONTRACTUAL DOCUMENT in case you don't know...)

 

Feel FREE to contact DE and ORDER them to change it. (Since you are right and everyone else is wrong, they HAVE to listen to you, right?)

 

 

Let me know how that works out for you.

 

Well, since you apparently can't comprehend what you read, I nor anyone else here said the EULA was wrong.

[DeaththeK1d]

ILL BE HAPPY IF THERE WASENT CRASHING SO MUCH OTHER BUGS I CAN DEAL WITH

[Gryphticon]

I agree with OP. Warframe is in a infinite cycle of bugs and problems. If Warframe lives long enough to see it out of beta then the world would be a utopia aka. Warframe will never be out of beta at this rate.