Arcwing- It's A Poorly Added Flashey-Thing That Gives Nothing To The Base Game.

[Innocent_Flower]

So I was skeptical about archwing when it was first shown. I thought "this is something really flashy that will draw the masses in, but ultimately is a distraction from the main game." I kinda thought It'd be too soon to try and attract the masses. You do that when every aspect of gameplay is polished or at least decent, not before.  

 

So, I was  right. It's a poorly added flashey-thing that gives nothing to the base game.

 

-The binary nature. It's an archwing mission or a foot mission and there's no synergy between them. There's few arcwing missions and so you're not given many ways to level your stuff for the more difficult archwing missions. 

- Having to build your first archwing has something to do with how disconnected they are. Archwing just can't be mixed with normal gameplay because not everybody has an archwing. 

- Art went surreal. Grey space, bizarre grineer mining items on asteroids. The weird dimensions of everything encountered in the corpus trench-runs.  

- The enemies.  Bigger osprey named like ships. No chance of fighting arcwing enemies on foot, or vice versa. 

-The gameplay

-- Dodging doesn't do. Admittedly I'm used to sliding; But the barrel roll here has very little function. 

-- Long periods of moving forward in a straight line. 

-- Melee has become a clunky "dash and whack" thing. 

 

 

The big blow is that It's obvious that DE have put a fair bit of effort into coding/modeling and animating all this; Effort they could have spent making the main game better. There's tons of new enemies (and every faction needs those almost desperately) New weapon mechanics, A quest, new mods (we could've had the current ones balanced) There's one or two achwing tilesets... and that effort could have been used to improve/add too current tilesets.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[GregoryGalahad]

I think the idea is good.

But they should have waited at least 2 weeks before releasing this bug infested glitch-maimed crash-ridden stuff, because i cannot complete a single archwing mission BECAUSE the enemies ALWAYS get stuck in a freakin' asteroid.

 

[Orbister]

Well i kinda liked it up to now, it's fun, but yeah... some more "integration" would be welcome, up to now i consider it a very positive addition, the only thing that bothers me though, is that since the only thing we carry from the warframe to the archwing is health, energy and shields... then the choice of frame gets a bit limited imo.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Orbister

[Zagrax]

It needs to have tangible rewards that carry back to the base game, and don't tell me the laughable amount of fusion cores I get per run and all the crappy commons from interception are actually rewards. You don't even get resources.

[vaugahn]

It's a good start.

 

I'd like to see it integrated into invasion missions. That would be a really cool place for it. 

[Temperance000]

Hello again, Innocent_Flower.  I see you haven't changed.  I also see your concerns, and recognize most of them as valid.

 

So let me ask you one question:  How would you make it better?

 

It's very easy to bash something.  It's quite a bit harder to try to improve it.

[elele]

Wat? Archwing is a like a DLC to a retail game. It's a separate game mode on a different set of maps. In this sense, it's the best kind of DLC. At least they're not simply releasing more camos, character skins, "quick-access" kits (EA I'm looking at you) or maps (COD...) or p2w weapons.

[xethier]

the problem i have with it is the VAST disparity between corpus and grineer difficulty.

 

corpus, you can dodge the incoming fire fairly easily, and when hit, it does fairly minimal damage.

 

grineer, hit-scan swarm that even in mercury can slash through 1400 shields and 900 health in seconds if you aren't killing them fast enough. 

(which makes scanning them down for hints on mods incredibly frustrating)

 

overall, this new mode is something i like, but it definitely needs more work before i'll consider it polished.

 

the interception missions, particularly, seem problematic as the mobs seem to be able to block you from taking a node from over a kilometer away and their AI is either really good or really unfair, i haven't decided which.

[Kurrumitsumi]

 

-The binary nature. It's an archwing mission or a foot mission and there's no synergy between them. There's few arcwing missions and so you're not given many ways to level your stuff for the more difficult archwing missions. 

- Having to build your first archwing has something to do with how disconnected they are. Archwing just can't be mixed with normal gameplay because not everybody has an archwing. 

- Art went surreal. Grey space, bizarre grineer mining items on asteroids. The weird dimensions of everything encountered in the corpus trench-runs.  

- The enemies.  Bigger osprey named like ships. No chance of fighting arcwing enemies on foot, or vice versa. 

-The gameplay

-- Dodging doesn't do. Admittedly I'm used to sliding; But the barrel roll here has very little function. 

-- Long periods of moving forward in a straight line. 

-- Melee has become a clunky "dash and whack" thing. 

 

since i dont feel like explaining how i disagree with all of these points ill just leave it at i personally like the additions.

 

the only thing i can say your correct about is moving in a line for long periods, but even that is nothing.. i mean your in freaking open space! do you want the play space to be confined to the asteroid field and then put all of them closer together so you HAVE to move around them?

 

also i dont think of the barrel roll as a dodge, its just to get around stuff for me.

[trst]

I think the idea is good.

But they should have waited at least 2 weeks before releasing this bug infested glitch-maimed crash-ridden stuff, because i cannot complete a single archwing mission BECAUSE the enemies ALWAYS get stuck in a freakin' asteroid.

 

Welcome to Warframe, enjoy your stay.

 

If they delayed two more weeks then they wouldn't have found nearly as many bugs with internal testing than players found within the first couple hours it being released. The same can be said for ANY update for ANY game produced by a company of similar sizes. And even for larger ones, the players will always find far more than any internal test builds and beta environments the game has.

[Innocent_Flower]

Hello again, Innocent_Flower.  I see you haven't changed.  I also see your concerns, and recognize most of them as valid.

 

So let me ask you one question:  How would you make it better?

 

It's very easy to bash something.  It's quite a bit harder to try to improve it.

What I would have done, were I supreme commander of DE? 

 

 

- Wouldn't have made archwing so soon in development. Would have focused on basic gameplay mechanics first (interesting enemies, good scalling, ballance, interesting weapons, movement improvements). Failing that; 

 

- Everyone gets the most basic arcwing free. Though If I had an option I would've also added other items for tenno to use (perhaps those flying dargyn) 

 

- Archwing enemies would appear in standard gameplay when appropriate. Regular enemies would apear in archwing gameplay when appropriate. 

 

- arcwing (dargyn) sections are only parts of missions. Think "we need to board this ship, let's fight some enemies to get past it". or "We need to leave this ship and get to X for extraction" or "we need to move from asteroid A to Asteroid B" 

 

- Small ships in space. Fighters, troop transports, resource transports. 

 

- dodging is bigger. Vehicles are faster when traveling longer distances. 

 

- No corpus ship trench runs. 

 

- Mods are more common. 

 

 

Probably would be better. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Splatter_Puppet]

the problem i have with it is the VAST disparity between corpus and grineer difficulty.

That can be said about the base game as well. Grineer have always been far more of a nightmare to fight.

 

However, I agree that it is silly for me to be able to easily solo lvl 17-20 corpus with lvl 5 weapons and no mods, but lvl 5 Grineer on Mercury murder me.

[xethier]

That can be said about the base game as well. Grineer have always been far more of a nightmare to fight.

 

However, I agree that it is silly for me to be able to easily solo lvl 17-20 corpus with lvl 5 weapons and no mods, but lvl 5 Grineer on Mercury murder me.

 

absolutely true, however in the regular game mode you have cover.

there really isn't ANY cover on the tilesets in space with the grineer. 

[MXultra]

I knew archwing was nothing more than a mini game as soon as they revealed that archwings had their own abilities/weapons.

 

It is a huge waste of coding and asset creation, even more so than the Kubrow.

 

I am only pursuing the archwing to get Limbo and after that, I think I'll probably play it as much as I play Flappy Zephyr.

[CerebrateJoe]

I disagree.  I love arcwing and I'm really enjoying playing it.  I can't wait for more.  I think DE did a great job.  And all the room for development is room to grow arcwing, not a shortfall.

[turbinea]

there is not enough health and energy orbs, and if they are, the range at which you can pick one up is still small. Carrier, or sentinel would be great help here. I propose new mod - Duct Tape - allows you to attach your sentinel to archwing :)

Of course, amount of mods gained from mission is ridiculously small, not to mention it's mostly fast hands and crap like that.

General idea of Archwing is nice, it tries to break monotony of corridors and halls of regular missions. But it needs serious work.

[goggles2]

-why are there no resource drops?

-why are grinneer insanely powerful?

-no exp gain on the warframe you use

-enemies are tiny and very hard to see

-enemy pathfinding is very broken they often end up inside asteroids

-missions are very bland/level design sucks

-graphical glitches with sydanas and shadows

 

all in all feels very unfinished

[-CM-Zura]

how i see this is kinda criticism but howel

 

here is the thing they release U15 for us to find bugs if this got longer in progress they got more bug to kill 

+ soon or later they add more tile sets they are in pressure~ 

[DSpite]

Lets assume for one nanosecond that the OP is even remotely correct.

 

So what? The game mode needs looking at? It's been out what, a couple of days? Stating that "the whole thing adds nothing to the game" is NOT feedback, it's a statement that the entire AW addition is not found interesting by the OP. That's all that says, and is based on the incredibly bad assumption that

 

A) Nothing will get fixed or changed.

B) That somehow you are forced to play it.

 

How about nit-picking on a single AW issue at the time and not just yell "It's all bad! Abandon ship!".

[Innocent_Flower]

- I was kinda hoping that everything'd get fixed and changed. That's kinda why I wrote the thread. Still; Some stuff is unlikely to be fixed (surreal corpus "trench" sections, first arcwing likely won't be given to all for free even though it'd expand the options that archwing can offer.) 

- Putting tons of developer resources into a split off segment of the game doesn't seem like a great idea.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Draciusen]

"It's all bad! Abandon ship!".

 

Funny, because that's how the first Archwing mission starts out.

 

- I was kinda hoping that everything'd get fixed and changed. That's kinda why I wrote the thread. 

- Putting tons of developer resources into a split of segment of the game doesn't seem like a great idea. 

 

I hope you realize how absurd it is to expect DE to fix everything wrong with a complete, brand-new game-mode within a few short days. And on a weekend too, these people have lives. I still remember seeing hotfixes get pushed out at midnight on Friday for Lotus's sake; you need to lower your standards.

 

This is hardly a "split of segment of the game", that would be a new tileset, or new armor, or a new weapon. This is an entirely new game-mode in itself, that plays completely different from the standard game. It's refreshing, it's new, and it needs polishing and expansion. This is simply the first step in what can potentially be a fantastic addition to the game that can make it stand out and be really unique.

 

Quit acting so conservative, you're acting as if they're ignoring the rest of the game to develop this. They're not. I'd bet my left sock that DE has been constantly tackling the issues that plague the normal game for quite some time, but they haven't fully come up with an answer. The last few devstreams have shown that they're still developing on the whole idea of an endgame, the modding system, focus, all that stuff. They haven't come up with a solid plan on where they want to go with that, but they do know what they wanted to do with Archwing, so they pushed that ahead.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Draciusen

[Letter13]

Feedback, even negative, is valuable. 

 

It's clear that you're not satisfied with the latest content, but you need to say more than "I don't like it" if you want it to be made better.

 

The developers spent a lot of time and effort to create this content, so I think it's a bit mean to say that they could have done something more worthwhile instead. Instead I think you should suggest ideas or ways that you think that they could make the Archwing (and this update) live up to your expectations.

[DirkDeadeye]

Feedback, even negative, is valuable. 

 

It's clear that you're not satisfied with the latest content, but you need to say more than "I don't like it" if you want it to be made better.

 

The developers spent a lot of time and effort to create this content, so I think it's a bit mean to say that they could have done something more worthwhile instead. Instead I think you should suggest ideas or ways that you think that they could make the Archwing (and this update) live up to your expectations.

 

 

Wait, seriously? How many other threads exist in this sub-forum that have done the exact thing you're suggesting.. that at best were sort of brushed off publicly, relating to other patches.

 

It's like getting on twitter, and trying to have a conversation with Tom Hanks. You might as well go find your dog, and tell it what you'd like to see.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

-- Melee has become a clunky "dash and whack" thing. 

 

 

Bite your tongue, sir. The archwing melee is the most fun I've ever had in this game.

[taiiat]

It's a good start.

 

I'd like to see it integrated into invasion missions. That would be a really cool place for it. 

it is a good start. it's a new feature, and we can integrate it moreso from here. as it stands it doesn't do much for the game.

 

i might go as far to say i'd like Archwing refined and added to most parts of Warframe in general. break up Archwing and 'normal' Warframe with each other. Missions that are primarily one side, but mix things up here and there with the other one.

 

 

and ofcourse, since we have the capability from Archwing to cross open space, that means that we can have more 'open world' type things be a part of Warframe in the future. exploring areas, going between ships and stations completing Objectives and whatnot... (like Borderlands + Spacecraft perhaps).

we have more option for things like that, that is.

 

 

we can work it into the game, but it certainly is a fact that it doesn't feel like part of the game as it stands. it's isolated from the rest of the game.