Arcwing- It's A Poorly Added Flashey-Thing That Gives Nothing To The Base Game.

[Liminal]

Just checked reddit: frame energy pool is carried over.

But still, a Vanguard Rhino with maxed Flow is pretty much the best frame for Archwing.

Edited October 28, 2014 by The_Doc

[AmaziaTheAmazing]

Hey Flower guess what...

 

I can be Ash and also survive in the Archwing. So I don't gotta resort to using Rhinoob to get the job done.

It's not that I CAN'T survive in a non-tanky frame, but why bother? This is what Frost and Rhino excel at (but I'll have to try the really agile frames too if their speed does carry over.)

[DivisionByZero]

Zephyr is the best Archwing frame. 450 health + shields. Anyone who brings Loki or Mirage to an Archwing mission deserves to be tossed out of groups.

[RoninJed]

Hey Flower guess what...

 

I can be Ash and also survive in the Archwing. So I don't gotta resort to using Rhinoob to get the job done.

I love how everyone says if you use rhino you are a noob and then go on to say they love their invincible valkyr lol. I'm not saying this describes you but rather pointing out that nobody calls people who use valkyr noobs. I know Rhino is one of the easier frames to get but he has been nerfed since he first came out so I don't think he should be called a noob frame anymore.

[TheErebus.]

I love how everyone says if you use rhino you are a noob and then go on to say they love their invincible valkyr lol. I'm not saying this describes you but rather pointing out that nobody calls people who use valkyr noobs. I know Rhino is one of the easier frames to get but he has been nerfed since he first came out so I don't think he should be called a noob frame anymore.

I'm really just saying it for comedic purposes, I truly believe every frame is equal to one another and can be used for anything. 

[BrazilianJoe]

My proposition is to overload the ability buttons.

 

Press button = Archwing ability

Hold button = Warframe ability

 

This way we can mashup both skill sets and would have a reason to use the squisier frames. 

 

BUT the Archwings should also have their own durability, which would simply be added to the Warframe's. 

[Bongever]

I dont know what youre talking about. I use Volt/ Zephyr to Archwing and I happen to do just fine. And HOW do you propose poor Booben will land any skills in the void of space, exactly?

 

As nice of an idea it is. A lot of skills would have to be reworked or changed entirely just to be of use in AW.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Bongever

[Liminal]

I dont know what youre talking about. I use Volt/ Zephyr to Archwing and I happen to do just fine.

It's not about doing fine, it's about imbalance. Right now half the frames offer no advantage whatsoever, and the rest are still inferior to Vanguard Rhino.

 

Number-wise, it's like being offered two swords: one that deals 750 damage and one that deals 1200. Maybe you like how the 750 one looks, but it's objectively worse than the other one.

 

On the ground frames are somewhat equally viable because of their powers, but in space their powers are irrelevant and what matters the most is durability.

[Riot_Inducer]

definitely agree, caster frames rely on their abilities, take those away and they're strictly inferior to tankier frames.

 

It is not *as* bad as some make it seem though, base movement speed are still taken into account so Loki can zip between interception nodes notably faster than Frost. Does still mean that Rhino Prime is more or less the statistically best archwing frame though.   

[Innocent_Flower]

My proposition is to overload the ability buttons.

 

Press button = Archwing ability

Hold button = Warframe ability

 

This way we can mashup both skill sets and would have a reason to use the squisier frames. 

 

BUT the Archwings should also have their own durability, which would simply be added to the Warframe's. 

That's a pretty solid suggestion actually, so long as some abilities are modified for space use. ( I kinda needed a way to justify Vaub having three abilities anyways. Electric mines, vortex and a bastille (possibly a bastille that causes enemies to loose control rather than float immobile) 

 

 

Edit: You could alternatively swap ability sets with R

Edited October 28, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[holdenagincourt]

Just make all health/shields an Archwing thing with its own mods. No Warframe stats carry over--that way it's just a cosmetic choice really.

 

On that note, the enemy damage on early planets really needs to be reduced. It's hard to even do the first mission of The Limbo Theorem because the enemies are in the upper-20s and outdamage/outtank a Warframe even in very small groups. On Mars.

[Rexlars]

Just make all health/shields an Archwing thing with its own mods. No Warframe stats carry over--that way it's just a cosmetic choice really.

 

On that note, the enemy damage on early planets really needs to be reduced. It's hard to even do the first mission of The Limbo Theorem because the enemies are in the upper-20s and outdamage/outtank a Warframe even in very small groups. On Mars.

 

I'm pretty sure they intend for you to do the easier ones, rank up, & get mods 1st. 

[Tenderdm]

As of now I think the qucikest fix is making archwing speed and/or agility inverse porption with frame health+shield.

Perosnally I think having archwing hp completely unrelated to warframe hp pretty much break the idea of having a warframe operate it, it also eltimate different play style and frame charcter, which would be rather boring.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Tenderdm

[Riot_Inducer]

I'm pretty sure they intend for you to do the easier ones, rank up, & get mods 1st. 

There's still a pretty massive gulf in difficulty between planets. You've got Mercury, Venus and Earth at lvls 5-10 then Jupiter at 10-15 then everything else at 25+

[DSpite]

OK, now, I'm sure a rift in space will appear and swallow the universe because I agree with a post from Innocent_Flowers, but we do technically need something to differentiate frames more while in the AW.

 

I disagree with active abilities, like he suggests, but something passive that has at the very least to do with a class of frame, like "Stealth", "Caster", "Tank", in the sense that it amplifies the higher innate traits would be nice. If we got higher Energy bonuses for the casters, they would be the ones using more powers, melees for the tanks etc. Right now, any player that just has a small number of frames and say, all casters because he enjoys playing that, will be at a penalty compared to other choices.

 

Might not be a massive one, but it's still annoying, if you say have a Loki, a Nova and a Vauban, and not say a maxed Valkyr. All the frames that have cool abilities, do not translate well, if at all, over to AW, unless I'm missing something.

Edited October 28, 2014 by DSpite

[Ratisfaction]

zephyr master race 1110 shields 1110 health

[Innocent_Flower]

OK, now, I'm sure a rift in space will appear and swallow the universe because I agree with a post from Innocent_Flowers, but we do technically need something to differentiate frames more while in the AW.

 

I disagree with active abilities, like he suggests, but something passive that has at the very least to do with a class of frame, like "Stealth", "Caster", "Tank", in the sense that it amplifies the higher innate traits would be nice. If we got higher Energy bonuses for the casters, they would be the ones using more powers, melees for the tanks etc. Right now, any player that just has a small number of frames and say, all casters because he enjoys playing that, will be at a penalty compared to other choices.

 

Might not be a massive one, but it's still annoying, if you say have a Loki, a Nova and a Vauban, and not say a maxed Valkyr. All the frames that have cool abilities, do not translate well, if at all, over to AW, unless I'm missing something.

 

Tank/caster/stealth bonuses would be interesting (I'd assume it'd be Durability bonus, power bonus and speed bonus)... But I think I'd rather have different Archwings for that, Or different mod builds. You're right; Caster frames with cool abilities are often the weakest. I'm interested in why you'd disagree with active abilities. It'd be a lot of work, and some of them would need to be changed for archwing, but I think it'd add a lot to active archwing gameplay. 

 

 

zephyr master race 1110 shields 1110 health

I think not; No armour. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Innocent_Flower]

Ok, The only good way to get XP for archwing is interception. Them exterminates and sabotages just don't cut it. 

 

Now, I'm told the Uranus Interception is the way to get the second archwing's parts. 

I can't do that mission. It's too hard. My teammates can't handle it either. 

 

Other than in the quests; The only archwing interception mission is a low level thing on earth. (also; It's a *@##$ to find the neccessary mods. ) 

[Kthal]

The Uranus Interception is balanced perfectly given the mods that are available for Archwing so far...

 

..That is, it would be if six key mods were not completely unobtainable (check codex), and another half dozen were anything other than rare drops from single enemies...

Edited October 29, 2014 by Kthal

[ensignvidiot]

I like this idea. Perhaps limit Archwings to only 3 abilities, where the first ability comes from the Warframe?

 

Or maybe just have each warframe have a passive as you have stated in the OP.

 

Something to make each one attractive to their favorite players. but not to gamebreaking to make one warframe everyone's goto. Like Rhino and Saryn currently

[unmog]

gotta love that 6% power range mod too, courtesy of energy amplifier. :/

[MrCranky_BR]

Everything about Archwing feels alpha right now. It looks cool alright. But maps are empty. No loot, no doors to open, ways to blast, turrets to destroy, alarms, nothing... the Corpus trench run is a borefest. Sabotage gives zero rewards, corpus enemies with ridiculously low drop rates, absolutely broken Interception mission - invisible, non-existant enemies capping objectives constantly in the Uranus mission. Some of the Archwing mods are just a joke, like the one unmog mentioned. The fact that the Warframe's base stats are more relevant than they should be - seriously, how many people are running Rhinos in Archwing mode? How many people are running Lokis? Exactly...

 

Well... at least, let's recognize they are hard at work fixing the bugs. Let us hope they will have the time and energy to polish Archwing soon.

[Renegade343]

I think not; No armour. 

Shields just soak up the fire to run away, maybe? 

 

I mean, there is that regenerating health. 

[DSpite]

Tank/caster/stealth bonuses would be interesting (I'd assume it'd be Durability bonus, power bonus and speed bonus)... But I think I'd rather have different Archwings for that, Or different mod builds. You're right; Caster frames with cool abilities are often the weakest. I'm interested in why you'd disagree with active abilities. It'd be a lot of work, and some of them would need to be changed for archwing, but I think it'd add a lot to active archwing gameplay. 

 

 

I think not; No armour. 

 

I'm not actively against active abilities, I just don't think DE will be able to balance them, and not because DE is incapable of it, I'm worried about the players finding an unintended min-max and then we will all back here saying nerf this and nerf that, kind of like the one ability builds used to be.

 

Archwing is very simple at the moment. I'd rather it stayed that way, and then later get more tricks once we have played the hell out of it.

Edited October 29, 2014 by DSpite

[taiiat]

mmm. Warframe stats affecting Archwing is probably a really bad idea because that means that certain Warframes are the 'just use this' for them. because they're better. without question.

 

so we're better off having Archwing stats come soley from the Archwing, to allow people to use any Warframe they want, whatever they think looks cool, and not need to be concerned with knowing that if they use... Loki, they're at a massive statistical disadvantage compared to some other Warframes. instead, they can use whatever Warframe they like just because they like it.

 

 

nothing else is really practical. 'immersion' or 'logic' or any other justifications go out the window here, because players are being statistically 'punished' for their Cosmetic choices. or inversely statistically 'rewarded' for them. when it should be neither. if two players have the same Archwing Mods, then whether they use Rhino, Frost, Nova, Loki, Mirage, Saryn, Mag, Zephyr, or any other Warframe - it shouldn't affect them statistically.

 

 

I can be Ash and also survive in the Archwing. So I don't gotta resort to using Rhinoob to get the job done.

i hope you realize the point is not that you need to use certain Warframes, but that you have a complete advantage for doing so.

 

and that's a problem.

Edited October 29, 2014 by taiiat