This Should Be Statistically Impossible

[Archistopheles]

Today seems like the end of the U15 honeymoon, so here we go again!

Meeting DE half way:

1. I would be willing to go 8 waves if it meant a guaranteed T4 key.

2. Keep the drop rate like it is now, but give me a chance at a T4 key every 2 rounds.

I've already pretty much given up on you being fair in the void, if you clamp down on key aquisition too, I won't be a happy player.

[Barhandar]

2. Keep the drop rate like it is now, but give me a chance at a T4 key every 2 rounds.

I've already pretty much given up on you being fair in the void, if you clamp down on key aquisition too, I won't be a happy player.

Disregarding the first option because it only increases the grind.

 

Why not do a complex solution? Step 1: remove all bronze mods from Interception rewards. Step 2: add keys, at lower chance, to rotation B.

So this way you're getting more keys, BOTH because all stupid useless mods are gone out of weighting pool, AND because you have two chances at a key per one full rotation (4 rounds).

[Monolake]

Sounds like you play for reward only, not fun.

 

Btw excavations are far better for farming keys now, faster too.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Monolake

[Koler93]

Guys its no longer RNG, lets call it CNG (constant number generator), today with my friend we tried to drop some t4 keys almost all rewards looks like this:


I know that game can have some bugs, but those magic t4 keys dropped usually every 4 waves on interception. 

Why DE try to put to everything this ridicolous RNG algorithm, i know that something can be more rare and valuable but this RNG wall is just indestructible.

Example:

You want Nyx prime systems

you check the wiki, Nyx prime systems  T4 cap

ok time to farm some keys -> after 4h of doing intercepion you finnaly get t4 Cap

then you go to void comlete objective and at reward screen you get [akbronco prime link/bronco prime receiver]
after 20 t4 cap you finally give up to the "RNG god".

This is how drop in this game works. Sry guys but after i wasted over 40 T1 cap for hikou prime pouch and finally ending with nothing I realized that nothing related to void/RNG is not worth any effort, because 90 % of time you hope for some something to drop and get slapped in the face at reward screen almost every time. Loot system is really important  part of the game, you get excited when you drop something good, but here its looks like:
Oh gold mod in void!!
you pick up it and there are two options:
rare core 5 // power throw
(before U15 it would be chaos nyx but now instead of it we get power throw)

This game became so dull because of that.
There is a reason why people stay longer on surv/ def/ interception they expect something to drop, but when you are ending 1h T4 surv and the 1h reward is credits and you hoped for loki prime helmet, you can imagine how could we fell. The game is just not rewarding in any way because of this  RNG.



Someone should take care of this, its nothing more than disregarding us players.

[SgtFlex]

Sounds like you play for reward only, not fun.

 

Btw excavations are far better for farming keys now, faster too.

To a certain extend, the player should be rewarded based on his efforts toward something. These interceptions in some cases are quite the contrary: they seem to drop T4's extremely randomly on the lower-end missions. However, on places that are Lvl 20+ are much more guaranteeing of a T4 key. Farming T4 sabotages and such are difficult though due to the fact that I've heard they only drop on lower end misisons

 

Regarding the second statement, I believe T4's are exclusive to interceptions.

 

 

IMO, the key drops should be guaranteed on the D rotation, and I'll be a happy camper, or simply make it so every T4 is in the higher level loot tables and have the same chance to drop.

[Barhandar]

IMO, the key drops should be guaranteed on the D rotation, and I'll be a happy camper, or simply make it so every T4 is in the higher level loot tables and have the same chance to drop.

Rotations are AABC, not ABCD.

And adding keys to rotation B with lower chance would work wonders.

[Archistopheles]

Sounds like you play for reward only, not fun.

Btw excavations are far better for farming keys now, faster too.

Excavation missions don't drop T4.

Fighting level 60+ on ~Saturn~ is not fun.

Stacking rewards are *worse* than non-stacking. You can't argue that they aren't.

[Barhandar]

Excavation missions don't drop T4.

Stacking rewards are *worse* than non-stacking. You can't argue that they aren't.

Sometimes you need other tiers.

 

I can easily argue that stacking rewards can be better than non-stacking. That is, if you don't make them worse by, ahem, "balancing". Nobody whatsoever would complain if Defense and Interception stayed "1-2-3-3-(3)" with stacking rewards, but DE just had to switch them to AABC (and not update the drop list on forums correctly - it still lists Void Defense as having waved rewards when they're in fact AABC).

Edited November 5, 2014 by Barhandar

[Archistopheles]

I can easily argue that stacking rewards can be better than non-stacking.

I've been in full agreement with you from the beginning, my friend.

[Zagrax]

DE: Lets give them stacking rewards, because they've been asking for that for a while! But lets put every crap common everyone is sick of seeing in the drop table.

[Inez]

I get lots of T4 keys on Viver. As does everyone who was farming this for rep.

 

As to "but I was fighting level 60+ Grineer!" you've been playing Warframe long enough to know that there is ZERO advantage in going to higher levels. Do 4 waves and restart if you think level 60+ Grineer are so difficult.

 

My bigger problem is when the game plain doesn't award you the key that shows up on screen. T4 Sabotage key shows up, everyone extracts, no key in my inventory or in Mission Summary screen. I would recommend not farming for T4 keys right now.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

Make stacking interception rewards, but make it pointless reward-wise to go past wave 4. lolwut.  Since interception is good for Rep farming I'm getting a lot of keys anyway but still, that seems rather silly to me.

[fatpig84]

I am getting a lot of T4 keys in Viver and Cerberus.

And these are low level enough to be farmed.

[angrykenji]

 

 

 

 

 

i believe this is a big part of all the grind threads out there. these rewards are so bad. 

[Djangofett]

I agree, I never seen someone or me, get a T4 key after U15 on interceptions.

[Keltik0ne]

Maybe it's a bug.

 

DE adds new and interesting bugs to keep us entertained all the time.

[Ritchel]

introducing the 3 layers of pain.

the pain it takes to get a t4 key (you need to spend 15mins~60mins for this)
the pain it takes for the chance to get that specific t4 key (if you missed that key you need, you need to spend lots of time again)

the pain it takes to not get what you want from that t4 key (max rage. go back to hunting keys again.)
its not about enjoying the game anymore. its about grindwalls and battling with luck.lel

 

[Hybridon]

I personally always knew it would be borked.

 

The biggest problem on survival rewards (AABC) was that on rotation C you have so much stuff crammed in, that you have to hold on for 20 minutes, and pray for the rare stuff to drop, if it doesnt, then go on another 20 minutes, where at 30-35 the difficulty usually ramps up to an extent that certain frames arent good enough to go there.

Result:

Frames arent balanced, cause naturally some frames past a certain point in the game lose all effectiveness.

DE stays silent on the issue stream after stream, I made a whole topic on it, DE staff told me they would talk to Sheldon on the next Stream, and then again he made fun of it using terrible examples of stuff he added in a good way, like Gemini Cross, etc.
 

Even though Warframe is growing, the amount of heavy grinding drives away so much potential, and DE cant see it as they hide behind certain numbers that do not show the whole picture.

[Lorthos_Mornin]

I really wanted that key so I went 12 rounds on Stephano, Uranus.  I gave up at 12, it just wasn't worth my time.  I'd really like a statement on what happened because they used to be almost a guarantee at round 3, then it was changed to round 4 and now it looks like there's no chance at all.  I might get on later to try again but the OP is right.  If something has been stated to have a guaranteed or very high chance to drop something when certain conditions are met and then when those conditions are met at least twice in the op's case and four times in mine and nothing drops something is wrong.

[Janzer]

As to "but I was fighting level 60+ Grineer!" you've been playing Warframe long enough to know that there is ZERO advantage in going to higher levels. Do 4 waves and restart if you think level 60+ Grineer are so difficult.

 

Well with that statement right there, I now have to back the OP.

 

With my caveman brain even I can understand the basics to the frustration experienced. And even if he/she has been around long enough to know certain things, that doesn't mean we still can't express our discontent and want for change.

 

So to put the original idea of the OP simply:

 

"Doing things that are more difficult, should reward higher reward. When it doesn't, people get pissed."

 

I totally agree with that, to an extent. To an extent because I also agree that the reward for me would be in the act itself. So, I'm split on this topic in that I see room for improvement that would harm no one, in that we could remove the lower tier mods, the higher the waves get, which would offer a better chance at getting a higher tier item/mod/key.

[7.T.]

   +1 for the P.S. about Ammo Drum alone.

[Macdermott]

I get lots of T4 keys on Viver. As does everyone who was farming this for rep.

 

As to "but I was fighting level 60+ Grineer!" you've been playing Warframe long enough to know that there is ZERO advantage in going to higher levels. Do 4 waves and restart if you think level 60+ Grineer are so difficult.

 

My bigger problem is when the game plain doesn't award you the key that shows up on screen. T4 Sabotage key shows up, everyone extracts, no key in my inventory or in Mission Summary screen. I would recommend not farming for T4 keys right now.

Is this a repeatable issue? Did it happen more than once? Do you have any screenshots?

 

I ask because I've had a vague feeling that I'd been missing stuff as well but I'm not one to search for something specific...I just run missions for a while and go back later to see what all I've accumulated...and sometimes I go "Where did that XYZ go that I saw drop??!!"

 

The only way to get this resolved is to document it and submit a bug report.  Currently, I don't care enough.  At some point, I'm sure I will, but by then I'll probably just give up.  Warframe is in it's twilight for me.  I'm hoping the sun rises again, but I can see about 2 or 3 more months MAX of interest in this game for me.  Just too much of the same old same old...this thread being a classic example and part of the reason why I don't bother paynig attention to my mission rewards.

[-Wispy-]

It's interesting to me because, as I understand it, the grind/reward system is supposed keep players hooked. It's why that one mmorpg has stuck around for so long. With Warframe the drop tables are, it seems, often "broken/bugged" and honestly, I feel like the rewards from the grind are the same old rewards dressed up in new clothes. Then we get shiny new things to distract us until we realize that it's just more to grind. I play Warframe for fun. I play for those moments of pure BA-ness, and the satisfaction of struggling through a tough mission with your friends and coming out on top. I've got a clan with a few friends, and we have a good time. That said, the grind/reward system that's supposed to hook players is what's driving me away. Especially since, as cases like those in this thread point out, the system has a habit of not putting out well in relation to the effort we put in. I'm still hopeful, which is why I'm here, but Warframe has become a sort of chore that's impossible to finish, and I'm a little tired of it.