Major Game Breaking Flaw For Those Who Chose Veil/meridian As A Syndicate.

[Blazer-X]

Advice, take rank 1 with RV also as you will get access to their dailies. And when you do them, 50 % reputation will go to SM.

Thanks, but I am nowhere close to Rank anything at the moment. Even SM is still 50% for Rank 1 (RV even more behind). This is just an overall plan I mapped out from the beginning (well, as soon we had a basic understanding of the system). My goal for RV is to completely skip the Warframe mods that I can get in other factions, so that even with half Reputation gain, I can get everything before having to switch out of it for good. Once I start Arbiter/Suda, RV is pretty much gonna hit really low on the negative.

[fatpig84]

Oh well SM I still love you. 3>

They remind me of the GDI after all.

[Sebastianx]

Oh well SM I still love you. 3>

They remind me of the GDI after all.

GDI? from C&C Tiberium? Hmmm...Red Veil remind me of NOD for some reason, something's fishy lol.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Sebastianx

[TankHunter678]

GDI? from C&C Tiberium? Hmmm...Red Veil remind me of NOD for some reason, something's fishy lol.

Red Veil practically is NOD, only without the charismatic Kane to lead them.

 

And without the freakin terrible end to C&C4.

[RoboDoge]

Red Veil practically is NOD, only without the charismatic Kane to lead them.

 

And without the freakin terrible end to C&C4.

Yeah, now that you mention NOD i see resemblance. Tho, they are much much more angrier than NOD.

[ThunderZsolt]

well, this looks like it is a serious oversight...

 

good post with the suggested solutions too, upvoted!

[Lacey_K]

This isn't an oversight, so much as it is a really hard subgraph problem. If you're interested in looking this up, this graph is a cubic graph with 6 vertices, and the problem is "Can I draw this graph in such a way that there exist 3 subgraphs of 2 vertices that do not contain every vertex in the graph?" 

 

My intuition says no, but I'm not a graph guy. If you want to put some real work into this, your keywords to look up are "cubic graph" (or 3-regular graph) and subgraphs. 

 

tl;dr - DE didn't screw up. It's a property of the graphs like this. Math is neat!

[DrBorris]

Yup, I noticed this too. Thus I joined Arbiters/Suda/Steel. I do agree that a change is needed, I would probably go with removing the opposing. Nice post by the way.

[Agua]

I REALLY hope they fix this. If you're with red veil/steel meridian you can only max them both, and no other faction. With any other 4 factions, you can max 4 factions instead.

 

Adding a 2 more factions can easily solve the issue, but I will analize other posibilities and post here later.

[Rettalick]

Or you know...you could stop trying to exploit a FLAW and only have two factions like your supposed to.

[ThunderZsolt]

This isn't an oversight, so much as it is a really hard subgraph problem. If you're interested in looking this up, this graph is a cubic graph with 6 vertices, and the problem is "Can I draw this graph in such a way that there exist 3 subgraphs of 2 vertices that do not contain every vertex in the graph?" 

 

My intuition says no, but I'm not a graph guy. If you want to put some real work into this, your keywords to look up are "cubic graph" (or 3-regular graph) and subgraphs. 

 

tl;dr - DE didn't screw up. It's a property of the graphs like this. Math is neat!

 

well, DE should have used another graph, which favors each syndicate equally - i did call it an oversight, and i still think it is. OP suggested other solutions, which don't include such graphs

 

 

p.s.: i've learned about graphs at the university, but in hungarian, so i can't express myself well in english on this topic. also i didn't particularly liked it

[[DE]Steve]

Excellent insight! The current symmetries (which fail with 6 nodes) were definitely a last minute 'screw this make the diagonals symmetrical' and it was clear on paper this wasn't balanced but 'out it went'. When the other fires die down there will be some changes, will do my best to respect your investment!

[Sebastianx]

Excellent insight! The current symmetries (which fail with 6 nodes) were definitely a last minute 'screw this make the diagonals symmetrical' and it was clear on paper this wasn't balanced but 'out it went'. When the other fires die down there will be some changes, will do my best to respect your investment!

Yay, I am now a happy Red Veil supporter knowing that this will get fixed, many thanks.

[Imaru]

Excellent insight! The current symmetries (which fail with 6 nodes) were definitely a last minute 'screw this make the diagonals symmetrical' and it was clear on paper this wasn't balanced but 'out it went'. When the other fires die down there will be some changes, will do my best to respect your investment!

That's great to hear. I look forward to more info on the topic!

[TheErebus.]

Excellent insight! The current symmetries (which fail with 6 nodes) were definitely a last minute 'screw this make the diagonals symmetrical' and it was clear on paper this wasn't balanced but 'out it went'. When the other fires die down there will be some changes, will do my best to respect your investment!

That would explain it.

[OverlordMcGeek]

and now off to exploit...

[ra9una]

Yeah, I see it, though I kind of hope it isn't fixed.....as horrible as it is to say.  I guess it's because I'm not really involved and this system benefits me. Just goes to show how selfish people can be (e.i. Me.) Luckily, I'm not in charge.

[Letter13]

Moved to Bugs.

[Nervara]

Excellent points sir.

[LukeAura]

I don't see the problem. Well, I do, but I don't see why it's a significant problem. 
What makes running Meridian/Veil so desirable that not being able to run a third alliance with them is damning? 
If you run Veil/Meridian before their respective neutral syndicates you'll be able to get the weapon mods for their ally no problem. 

 

Edited October 28, 2014 by LukeAura

[Othergrunty]

Excellent insight! The current symmetries (which fail with 6 nodes) were definitely a last minute 'screw this make the diagonals symmetrical' and it was clear on paper this wasn't balanced but 'out it went'. When the other fires die down there will be some changes, will do my best to respect your investment!

 

Well good to hear.

 

However. Sorry to ask this. But was the selection of weapons which the Syndicates support with their mods also a last minute thing?

 

Because some of these are a bit strange.

 

Steel Meridian makes perfect sense given their backround, but at the opposite end of the Syndicates we have Perrin Sequence who despite being a Corpus offshot faction (and hating the Grineer apperently) support Grineer based weapons with 2/3rd of their mods (the Acrid is based on Grineer concept art and the trigger assembly can be seen in the Grineer weapon research lab). Meanwhile the only Corpus weapon they support is the Spectra which lets be honest nobody would use even with an increased range.

 

There are other odd choices too. Arbiters of Hexis also have a Grineer weapon mod, despite being apperently tied closely to the Tenno.

 

New Loka also has a Grineer weapon they support, despite their entire ideology being directed towards loathing anythings like a genetical damaged clone race.

 

What was the thought process behind this selection of weapons and their respective faction?

 

Will you revisit this too once the fires died down?

 

I mean you guys were bothered by the Snipetron using kinetic bullets, because it didn't fit the Corpus, hence removing it and replacing it with the Lanka.

So shouldn't this condractions of the factions theme bother you guys too?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Othergrunty

[Llyssa]

...but you can get 4 at once with this set up, quite easily, including with SM.

 

EDIT: The trick is to work on two non-allied factions at once.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Llyssa

[Azure.M]

This isn't an oversight, so much as it is a really hard subgraph problem. If you're interested in looking this up, this graph is a cubic graph with 6 vertices, and the problem is "Can I draw this graph in such a way that there exist 3 subgraphs of 2 vertices that do not contain every vertex in the graph?" 

 

My intuition says no, but I'm not a graph guy. If you want to put some real work into this, your keywords to look up are "cubic graph" (or 3-regular graph) and subgraphs. 

 

tl;dr - DE didn't screw up. It's a property of the graphs like this. Math is neat!

 

Every ally pair has a total of 4 enemies. It's not hard to have those as the other four factions instead of having stuff like Suda+Hexis hating Veil twice.

 

 

Unless I'm missing something?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Azure.M

[RiouHotaru]

Does it matter that you can get three of the Syndicates to like you?

 

I'm confused by what the problem exactly is because the issue isn't clearly explained, even in layman's terms.

 

Is the problem that Steel Meridian and Red Veil don't have issues with the other two syndicates on their respective halves?

 

Because honestly, even in terms of ideology, there's no reason Steel Meridian should have any issues with Suda or Arbiters.  The Red Veil is sort of an anomaly because their philosophy dictates they should hate everyone because supposedly everyone is corrupt.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

And what if I haven't initiate in a Syndicate and I have negative points in both that Syndicate and its ally? I'm stuck in that position and seems like there's no way around to change Syndicate now.

This system pretty much screws you if you don't initiate to all Syndicates before starting to gain points....