Major Game Breaking Flaw For Those Who Chose Veil/meridian As A Syndicate.

[RiouHotaru]

I know it's a lot of work concepting, modeling, animating and balancing... But Syndicates should REALLY have their own original Death Squads.

 

And not a single Syndicate has a heavy unit to offer as a Specter? Now if I could have a legion of roller specters out at 1-time...well then all would be right with the world...kidding. 

 

Original Syndicate Death Squads FTW.

 

To be fair, the Shield Osprey is ridiculously tanky because it's a Guardian Excimus.  The Corrupted Lancer has grenades that are like shooting a Penta, and the Roller has incredible staying power.

[RawGritz]

To be fair, the Shield Osprey is ridiculously tanky because it's a Guardian Excimus.  The Corrupted Lancer has grenades that are like shooting a Penta, and the Roller has incredible staying power.

Oh I know. They are formidable, albeit largely familiar. We see so many of the same units in this game. It's work, sure, but I would love to see original Syndicate Death Squads.

[Sasquatchias]

You will know :)

Question, but are the current Syndicate Death Squads placeholders? 

 

I don't want to sound rude, but it feels like a couple of them were mostly afterthoughts, and I feel lore-wise don't particularly fit (Red Veil using Chargers for instance.) 

[011100110110000101101101]

While you here Steve, something I thought would be nice to see, would be leaders or other characters for factions be our handlers on Faction specific missions. We'd still have Lotus for everything else but I feel it'd add more flavor to the factions and being kinda refreshing like when Darvo would be our handler.

 

Unless that already happens, haven't done any of the faction alerts yet, just hit rank 1 with Meridian.

It doesn't already happen, I've played a bunch of them and they say a single sentence to you at the beginning of the mission and you never hear from them again.

 

They really should be your handler in these missions.

[Janzer]

The most exciting part of the Syndicates is having Death Squads come after me. My daggers and Volt look forward to this greatly :)

[Mcl_Blue]

Since now we're talking about what we want to see from Syndicates in the future, I think it would be really nice if there was a Codex entry or something (anything, really) elaborating on why each Syndicate is allied/opposed to the others.

 

It's easy to see why Cephalon Suda doesn't like the Red Veil, as their motives seem to be very radically opposed right from the get go. Why does Cephalon Suda hate New Loka, though? No clue, I don't see how their motives clash at all, or how they would even be any threat to one another.

 

Having this kind of clarification would add some spice to the lore, and their conflicts themselves, and would also probably make picking your Syndicates a more entertaining endeavor.

[ThePresident777]

Here is another wrinkle.  The reputation penalties could be based on rank so that the higher you rank in a syndicate the larger your penalty with enemy, opposition, or nuisance syndicates.  The status (enemy, opposition, nuisance) could be the base state that could morph into higher states of conflict as your rank grows so that at max rank you could have 3 enemy syndicates instead of one enemy, one opposition, and one nuisance.

 

Sounds interesting on paper but I have to ask, what for?  To make it more difficult to grind all the syndicates?  Meh.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Sebastianx]

You didn't understand anything, this is not about OCD this is about some players farming 3 factions for x amount of time and some others who didnt see this BIG flaw having to farm for A LOT more hours than the others just because they didn't see this, it is a BIG design flaw, because like this steel meridian and the red veil are a lot less desirable.

Exactly. Doing Veil makes you lose points with Suda and Arbiters while doing Meridian makes you lose points with Loka and Perrin...so pretty much just losing points with every other faction. While playing either Suda/Arbiters you don't lose anything with Meridian and playing Loka/Perrin you don't lose anything with Veil.

[OniDax]

BTW "Major Game Breaking" is an extreme way of saying this! - I sense some Red Veil leanings in that phrasing :) Although Suda would praise your command of graph theory...

 

As for the extra cosmetics and events around this - hell yes - if you guys are digging where this is going we'll continue to flesh it out and make it deeper and more interesting! Thanks for the patience and enthusiasm!

 

Arbiter-archwing? Arbiter-frame? Arbiter-skin-for-frame? Arbiter-color-set? Love the syndicates. Would love some color sets and special armor for them. Keep up the good work.

Edited October 28, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Raythemartyr]

not sure if any of this has been mentioned yet, but I think the ones who are (also) getting the bad end of this are not (only) Red Veil/Steel Meridian; it is the Arbiters of Hexis and the Perrin Sequence, here's why.

The ideal way of farming these would be to have the most allies and the least enemies (assuming you just cared about min-maxing or w/e), to which there are two potential possibilities in the current system:

 

Red Veil and New Loka, or Steel Meridian and Sephalon Suda. If you follow the allegiances you should notice that with either of these routes you will end up having 3 allies, 2 enemies, and 1 neutral faction; however, neither Perrin Sequence or Arbiters of Hexis can manage this, since they are fighting each other instead of their ally's enemy (like all the rest are). No matter who you choose as a second faction for either of these Syndicates, you will end up having 3 allies and 3 enemies.

And this is only farming 2 different Syndicates, you could have 4 allies and 2 enemies if you started with maxing only Red Veil and then Maxed Steel Meridian and Cephalon Suda together, since they cancel each other out your standing with the Red Veil wouldn't change.

 

 

as a side note, what if DE was planning on adding more Syndicates later? this table could be somewhat incomplete so to speak, or it could get even more complicated in the future. just a thought.

[Arlayn]

Man why does that smiley have me worried all of a sudden!

 

But that's good, because I keep waiting for the Death Squads to show up and try to trounce me and never saw anything, so I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be looking for.

 

Also (and I'm sorry for asking so many questions but since you're here I want to pick your brain!) on the fact that rank ups cost potatoes, does that mean potatoes are something we'll see more of?  Alerts/invasions/void trader(?) possibly?

If its Steve related your worries are just around the corner...

[--MZez--]

The higher the sigil how more points? Can someone comfirm?

[011100110110000101101101]

The higher the sigil how more points? Can someone comfirm?

Nope.

 

No extra points.

 

I'm pretty sure that has been proven false.

Edited October 28, 2014 by 011100110110000101101101

[Othergrunty]

Lastly, don't bash Spectra. Sure it's not OP, but all of these mods were geared towards the unloved weapons of Warframe. Spectra got a buff when Quanta came out and it's pretty good these days. I've got 4 forma on it, and I'm looking forward to getting my Perrin Sequence mod for it.

 

Good point about the Spectra. I was not aware that it got a buff recently.

 

Still i think it could need something better than 20 more range.

[unknow99]

BTW "Major Game Breaking" is an extreme way of saying this! - I sense some Red Veil leanings in that phrasing :) Although Suda would praise your command of graph theory...

 

As for the extra cosmetics and events around this - hell yes - if you guys are digging where this is going we'll continue to flesh it out and make it deeper and more interesting! Thanks for the patience and enthusiasm!

Wow, Steve himself has probably answered to one of my suggestions...

 

 

Thanks you aswell, can't wait to see how it'll evolve in the near future! (while I'm waiting for Stealth 2.0 & Swimming)

[Sitchrea]

You will know :)

 

Will Archwings ever be implemented with the Invasion system?

[Yezzik]

Just level Cephalon until the Arbiters are done, and then level Meridian until the Veil are done.

[The1OfDarkness]

The only thing i hate about the syndicates is that I love Veil and Hexis, so i have to choose even though their veiws look like they could easily go hand in hand.

Edited October 29, 2014 by The1OfDarkness

[UnluckiestSquid]

The only thing i hate about the syndicates is that I love Veil and Hexis, so i have to choose even though their veiws look like they could easily go hand in hand.

 

Maybe we'll see why.  That'd be pretty cool.  

 

Syndicates are putting Tenno at each other's throats, and that is a great thing.  Any time players love the identification, flavor, and idea of their chosen syndicates more than their friends you know a faction system has succeeded in making players feel unique and special in their decisions.  Every time someone says Heil the Veil here on the forums or in game it makes me feel good, feel a deeper sense of comradeship than I felt before syndicates were introduced.    

 

Thanks DE.  Can't wait to see what's next.

[ValhaHazred]

It's easy to see why Cephalon Suda doesn't like the Red Veil, as their motives seem to be very radically opposed right from the get go. Why does Cephalon Suda hate New Loka, though? No clue, I don't see how their motives clash at all, or how they would even be any threat to one another.

 

I'm guessing it's the New Loka's worship of the human form. It comes across as a mix between back-to-earth Neo-Luddite-ism + Humanity F*** Yeah! I can see an AI being totally not on board with that.

 

Granted, I absolutely agree that should be expanded on in the Codex.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ValhaHazred

[Cyberspace100]

My head just exploded.. i cant think that hard

[Loswaith]

Since now we're talking about what we want to see from Syndicates in the future, I think it would be really nice if there was a Codex entry or something (anything, really) elaborating on why each Syndicate is allied/opposed to the others.

 

It's easy to see why Cephalon Suda doesn't like the Red Veil, as their motives seem to be very radically opposed right from the get go. Why does Cephalon Suda hate New Loka, though? No clue, I don't see how their motives clash at all, or how they would even be any threat to one another.

 

Having this kind of clarification would add some spice to the lore, and their conflicts themselves, and would also probably make picking your Syndicates a more entertaining endeavor.

My concern is more Steel Meridian being allied with Red Veil, given Red Veil are willing to slaughter those innocents (any means to further the cause) the Steel meridian are trying to protect.  Though that said it doesnt make the Red Veil good prospects for anyone to ally with for that matter.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Loswaith

[TheInfiniteDoom]

Look, all I'm gonna say about this is that I'm fine with the system as-is. I have the Sigils for Steel Meridian and Arbiters of Hexis. By playing the system as it currently stands, I can gain standing with both Arbiters of Hexis and Cephalon Suda at the same time, losing standing in Red Veil at a 1:1 ratio to my Arbiters of Hexis gain. In spite of that, I can still gain Red Veil XP at half the rate of all my Steel Meridian XP, without losing any XP from Arbiters of Hexis because there is no negative relationship between Steel Meridian and Arbiters of Hexis. This allows me to level up with Steel Meridian, Red Veil and Arbiters of Hexis at the same time (all my favorites), while simultaneously gaining standing with Cephalon Suda as a bonus. Progress is slow, especially in Red Veil, but once Arbiters of Hexis (and maybe Cephalon Suda) hit their maximum, I can grind out Steel Meridian XP until Red Veil maxes out as well. It's exactly this kind of "spinning plates" faction balancing that I want out of this system.
If we were to get some kind of finely balanced system that really closed off doors to the various factions as you rose in others, I'd be pretty upset. If pushed, I'd probably go with Steel Meridian/Red Veil just to have standing in 2/3 of my favorite factions, but I don't want that choice forced upon me. In so many words:

I want to be the one who balances my faction standings such that I am esteemed in the factions I like, and disliked by the factions I care little about. I do not want to lock myself into a path that will shut me out of Arbiters of Hexis, or that will tie factions together so closely that I cannot pick and choose my allegiances. What if I find Arbiters of Hexis and Red Veil equally appealing, but have no interest in any others? Why should I be shackled to Steel Meridian (if, hypothetically I disliked that faction), or Cephalon Suda?

Even from a lore standpoint, the "neutral" relations make sense. Red Veil's intro says "The Old Ways speak of a cleansing fire...", surely some aspect of the "Old Ways" is tied into old Terran or Human prophecies. I doubt they have any feelings either way toward New Loka, considering that neither faction really benefits nor suffers from the other. If anything, their goals align pretty well. They both want to be free of corruption, by two different methods. They aren't exactly allies, but their goals are roughly comparable. On the other hand, what could Cephalon Suda possibly have in common with Steel Meridian? I'm sure some kind of skirmish might happen every now and then, when Cephalon Suda has some sort of macguffin it wants that just so happens to reside near the colonies Steel Meridian protects. Otherwise, I'm not sure there's any real reason that those factions would even be aware of the existence of the other, let alone come into conflict or agree to help one another. In that same fashion, there's really no reason that Steel Meridian would acknowledge Arbiters of Hexis. The Arbiters seek to turn Tenno away from combat (to some extent), which should suit Steel Meridian just fine. Steel Meridian is obsessed with its own colonies, there's no reason for them to go starting trouble with Tenno, or the people trying to create something more out of the Tenno beyond murder machines for hire. Everybody does their own thing, and the world keeps on spinning. Finally, we reach the Perrin Sequence/Red Veil. It seems that again, neither faction has directly conflicting goals or agendas. These people, while Corpus, seek peace and an end to the corruption of the Corpus faction as a whole. That's a net win for Red Veil, since that eliminates corruption in the system without them having to do any work, and as a peaceful faction they pose no threat. Red Veil appears to be made up of baseline humans, protected by the Grineer of Steel Meridian against the Grineer at large. That doesn't make them friendly with Perrin Sequence (or the Corpus as a whole), but there isn't animosity either.

So TL;DR: These "neutral" connections between factions are necessary as part of the system, allowing us the flexibility to make up our own allegiances (to some extent). They also make sense in a lore context, since the "gaps" between factions exist when factions have little in common or otherwise have no real reason to ally with or oppose one another.

[Yezzik]

How far can you go down in rep? I have an idea for finishing the Syndicate system off after I get everything I want, since rep gain/loss is 1:1.

Get everyone except Loka and Perrin to max, then raise those two up at the same rate. How much would your rep with the other four tank if you tried to balance all six out?

Could be a net positive at the end.

[steak]

Since now we're talking about what we want to see from Syndicates in the future, I think it would be really nice if there was a Codex entry or something (anything, really) elaborating on why each Syndicate is allied/opposed to the others.

 

It's easy to see why Cephalon Suda doesn't like the Red Veil, as their motives seem to be very radically opposed right from the get go. Why does Cephalon Suda hate New Loka, though? No clue, I don't see how their motives clash at all, or how they would even be any threat to one another.

 

Having this kind of clarification would add some spice to the lore, and their conflicts themselves, and would also probably make picking your Syndicates a more entertaining endeavor.

New Loka are anthropocentric and defenders of a pure humanity and Suda is an AI? Kinda clash pretty hard right there.

 

But I would love to see these little conflicts expanded in some ways - in lore and maybe events.