Major Game Breaking Flaw For Those Who Chose Veil/meridian As A Syndicate.

[-ER-CrazyMan]

Man why does that smiley have me worried all of a sudden!

 

But that's good, because I keep waiting for the Death Squads to show up and try to trounce me and never saw anything, so I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be looking for.

 

Also (and I'm sorry for asking so many questions but since you're here I want to pick your brain!) on the fact that rank ups cost potatoes, does that mean potatoes are something we'll see more of?  Alerts/invasions/void trader(?) possibly?

No, that means we'll have to buy more with plat.

If we want to advance in a syndicate, we'll have to pay.

[Mcl_Blue]

My concern is more Steel Meridian being allied with Red Veil, given Red Veil are willing to slaughter those innocents (any means to further the cause) the Steel meridian are trying to protect.  Though that said it doesnt make the Red Veil good prospects for anyone to ally with for that matter.

This has me intrigued too, that one was just an example.

 

New Loka are anthropocentric and defenders of a pure humanity and Suda is an AI? Kinda clash pretty hard right there.

Not unless they go all like "AIs begone!", 'cause Suda's stated goal is that of just observing and learning.

[[DE]Steve]

My concern is more Steel Meridian being allied with Red Veil, given Red Veil are willing to slaughter those innocents (any means to further the cause) the Steel meridian are trying to protect.  Though that said it doesnt make the Red Veil good prospects for anyone to ally with for that matter.

 

In my mind, The Veil do not slaughter innocents at all - the Veil are anti-establishment pure and simple and Meridian are against the establishment at all. Veil are just more chaotic - they want revenge and retribution and hate the 'system' itself. Meridian is about justice and protection, they hate what the system does.

[Llyssa]

In my mind, The Veil do not slaughter innocents at all - the Veil are anti-establishment pure and simple and Meridian are against the establishment at all. Veil are just more chaotic - they want revenge and retribution and hate the 'system' itself. Meridian is about justice and protection, they hate what the system does.

Thoughts on this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/335084-syndicate-alliance-logic/

[Guest]

In my mind, The Veil do not slaughter innocents at all - the Veil are anti-establishment pure and simple and Meridian are against the establishment at all. Veil are just more chaotic - they want revenge and retribution and hate the 'system' itself. Meridian is about justice and protection, they hate what the system does.

 

Well, to be fair the in-game message of "no cost too great, no blood too precious" is easy to misinterpret in the way Loswaith mentioned, a kind of "nobody will stand in our path". Nice to hear a dev's persepctive!

[Liacu]

Not unless they go all like "AIs begone!", 'cause Suda's stated goal is that of just observing and learning.

 

Maybe it's because New Loka might hold tradition in very high regard which an AI would see as inefficient and foolish. Though to be frank, New Loka should be enemies with Arbiters of Hexis since the Tenno aren't "pure" humans and Cephalon Suda despises violence which is pretty much the Red Veil as a whole. Though I hope the devs don't switch them, I like using Arbiter sigils and I want to stay in good standing with New Loka!

Edited October 29, 2014 by Liacu

[Othergrunty]

In my mind, The Veil do not slaughter innocents at all - the Veil are anti-establishment pure and simple and Meridian are against the establishment at all. Veil are just more chaotic - they want revenge and retribution and hate the 'system' itself. Meridian is about justice and protection, they hate what the system does.

 

Establishment? System? Are you refering to the two major and multiple minor factions? Because that doesn't sound so much like a system or establishment, which would be a singular government/social body, but more like a origin system wide status quo.

 

They remind me more to Bane's ideology from Dark Knight Rises. Let everything burn down and rebuild from scratch.

 

However causing chaos and revolution would pretty much increase the body count even further than what Grineer and Corpus allready do. So basicly another reason why the Steel Meridians should dislike the Veil.

 

It would make more sense for the SteelMer to be allied with the more neutral factions which could provide them with tools and informations to help their goal. Like Cephalon Suda, who seems to have no hand in the suffering of people.

 

Also the Red Veil seem to have a thing for using freaking Infested, together with radiations and toxins. That sounds very colleteral damage iduncing to me.

 

Veil would fit into being allied with the Arbiters of Hexes or even the New Loka. The former are going for a more ruthless approach to fighting and the later want to cleanse the solar system just as much as the Veil does.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Othergrunty

[011100110110000101101101]

In my mind, The Veil do not slaughter innocents at all - the Veil are anti-establishment pure and simple and Meridian are against the establishment at all. Veil are just more chaotic - they want revenge and retribution and hate the 'system' itself. Meridian is about justice and protection, they hate what the system does.

Who does the Veil consider innocent though?  Probably not poor Joe Worker who maintains MOAs for the Corpus.

 

Because he works for the Corpus to make a living.

 

I see them more like crusaders, destroying any and all corruption that has been plaguing the Origin System.

 

That's my personal take on them.

[[DE]Steve]

Establishment? System? Are you refering to the two major and multiple minor factions? Because that doesn't sound so much like a system or establishment, which would be a singular government/social body, but more like a origin system wide status quo.

 

They remind me more to Bane's ideology from Dark Knight Rises. Let everything burn down and rebuild from scratch.

 

However causing chaos and revolution would pretty much increase the body count even further than what Grineer and Corpus allready do. So basicly another reason why the Steel Meridians should dislike the Veil.

 

It would make more sense for the SteelMer to be allied with the more neutral factions which could provide them with tools and informations to help their goal. Like Cephalon Suda, who seems to have no hand in the suffering of people.

 

Also the Red Veil seem to have a thing for using freaking Infested, together with radiations and toxins. That sounds very colleteral damage iduncing to me.

 

Veil would fit into being allied with the Arbiters of Hexes or even the New Loka. The former are going for a more ruthless approach to fighting and the later want to cleanse the solar system just as much as the Veil does.

 

:) Great discussion-

 

Veil do use those things because to them 'the ends justify the means'. The System to them is the Grineer and Corpus. Meridian are splintered from the Grineer itself and are rebelling against that so they see the Veil as the 'darker side' of accomplishing the same thing.

 

The Arbiters want to create a new system, ruled by Tenno and value discipline and restraint. These are very much opposed to the Veil values. I think of Arbiters as cool and calm and Veil as vivid fire. I think Bane is a good comparison.

 

New Loka could never see eye to eye with Veil in my opinion because they seek the restoration of the lost 'order' which the Veil is suspicious of.

 

Cephalon Suda would be a curious ally of Meridian I think because, at the end of it, Suda thinks at a higher level than Meridian and that would frustrate Meridian. Suda doesn't like destruction though because it values existence and the variety of existence. If was sort of thinking of Wan Shi Tong in Airbender.

 

You guys rock and I think interpretation and some amount of contradiction makes this more interesting.

[Arlayn]

Establishment? System? Are you refering to the two major and multiple minor factions? Because that doesn't sound so much like a system or establishment, which would be a singular government/social body, but more like a origin system wide status quo.

 

They remind me more to Bane's ideology from Dark Knight Rises. Let everything burn down and rebuild from scratch.

 

However causing chaos and revolution would pretty much increase the body count even further than what Grineer and Corpus allready do. So basicly another reason why the Steel Meridians should dislike the Veil.

 

It would make more sense for the SteelMer to be allied with the more neutral factions which could provide them with tools and informations to help their goal. Like Cephalon Suda, who seems to have no hand in the suffering of people.

 

Also the Red Veil seem to have a thing for using freaking Infested, together with radiations and toxins. That sounds very colleteral damage iduncing to me.

 

Veil would fit into being allied with the Arbiters of Hexes or even the New Loka. The former are going for a more ruthless approach to fighting and the later want to cleanse the solar system just as much as the Veil does.

Desperate times require Desperate Measures. Both the Steel Merdian, and Red Veil understand this on a personal level. Its kinda like the song "It Has To Be This Way" Sure there is a possibility they could end up fighting as Raiden, and Armstrong did, but in reality they are the same. Both are fighting the system. Both are against corruption, and oppression. Both protect those who cannot fight for freedom, or against the corruption. Blood too precious can be a council member, the Queens, or their own family that has sided with the enemy in this case it be like Darvo killing his father if he were a member of Red Veil, or vice versa because Darvo's blood is precious to Frohd, and if he were like the Red Veil even if that person is precious to them he would kill them. Meaning even if its a family member of the Red Veil if they are supporting the enemy... They Will Die...

 

The Fight against Grineer, and Corpus is a brutal one, and may be filled with betrayal... For them its a fight that tears them apart from the inside. Forcing them to grow up. Forcing them to sacrifice everything...

Edited October 29, 2014 by Arlayn

[KingPigeon2320]

DE_Steve, this insight from a developer perspective is awesome! Maybe creating some kind of monthly/post-update lore discussion post with a dev weighing in on it would be a good way to make lore more relevant, without having to commit to creating a ton of it for the game?

 

Keep it rolling!

[Othergrunty]

:) Great discussion-

 

Veil do use those things because to them 'the ends justify the means'. The System to them is the Grineer and Corpus. Meridian are splintered from the Grineer itself and are rebelling against that so they see the Veil as the 'darker side' of accomplishing the same thing.

 

The Arbiters want to create a new system, ruled by Tenno and value discipline and restraint. These are very much opposed to the Veil values. I think of Arbiters as cool and calm and Veil as vivid fire. I think Bane is a good comparison.

 

New Loka could never see eye to eye with Veil in my opinion because they seek the restoration of the lost 'order' which the Veil is suspicious of.

 

Cephalon Suda would be a curious ally of Meridian I think because, at the end of it, Suda thinks at a higher level than Meridian and that would frustrate Meridian. Suda doesn't like destruction though because it values existence and the variety of existence. If was sort of thinking of Wan Shi Tong in Airbender.

 

You guys rock and I think interpretation and some amount of contradiction makes this more interesting.

 

Those are some interesting points. Thanks for sharing. We will see where you might head with the Syndicates.

 

 

*snips*

 

The Fight against Grineer, and Corpus is a brutal one, and may be filled with betrayal... For them its a fight that tears them apart from the inside. Forcing them to grow up. Forcing them to sacrifice everything...

 

Those are some good points too. Still the Veil's willingness to use Infested seems rather dangerous. The Orokin unleashed the Infested to Stop the Sentients and millenia later the Origin System is still under constant threat of these abominations.

 

Though seeing how the Tenno are willing to use Infested based weapons. This could come over as "it's okay if WE do it". But then again the Tenno are supposedly the only faction left which understands Orokin Technology (though we now seem to have Suda too), which would include the Technocyte organism.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Othergrunty

[Mcl_Blue]

The Arbiters want to create a new system, ruled by Tenno and value discipline and restraint.

Now see, THIS is the kind of stuff I mean by expanding on their alliances and motivations on the Codex or something. This bit right here isn't mentioned anywhere on their stated goal, and changes my view of them quite a fair bit.

[Kinperor]

Hey Steve, while you're on a roll, care to explain the logic for Suda VS New Loka? 

 

I hazarded the guess that Cephalon Suda is a survivor of the Orokin Era, and might partially be to blame for the current state of Earth, and for that reason New Loka resent them. Am I close?

 

Can't wait to hear more about the Syndicates! ... Like for instance, the names of the leaders, that'd be a nice start since they have no character whatsoever beyond "Choose us!" 

[Othergrunty]

Hey Steve, while you're on a roll, care to explain the logic for Suda VS New Loka? 

 

I hazarded the guess that Cephalon Suda is a survivor of the Orokin Era, and might partially be to blame for the current state of Earth, and for that reason New Loka resent them. Am I close?

 

"Turning away from genetic tampering that has twisted the Grineer and the technological meddling that has corrupted Earth"

 

Sounds a bit like they would hate too advanced technology like sentient computers (AIs), which Suda is. Your idea of Suda being a remnant of Orokin technology (which caused the change on earth) would fit too.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Othergrunty

[direcyphre]

:) Great discussion-

 

 I think...

You realize you're the guy right. If something is meant to be, you can just call it that, and it shall be done when it comes to canon lore?

[011100110110000101101101]

You realize you're the guy right. If something is meant to be, you can just call it that, and it shall be done when it comes to canon lore?

Don't give him any ideas...

[[DE]Steve]

Hey Steve, while you're on a roll, care to explain the logic for Suda VS New Loka? 

 

I hazarded the guess that Cephalon Suda is a survivor of the Orokin Era, and might partially be to blame for the current state of Earth, and for that reason New Loka resent them. Am I close?

 

Can't wait to hear more about the Syndicates! ... Like for instance, the names of the leaders, that'd be a nice start since they have no character whatsoever beyond "Choose us!" 

 

Yep! Cephalon Suda is the farthest you get from "life"... well, 'natural/biological', as New Loka defines life... this is the ultimate perversion of their ideals, a return to an original state of grace. These two syndicates are polarized around this definition of 'being alive'. The suggestion of history between them is also intriguing!

[[DE]Steve]

You realize you're the guy right. If something is meant to be, you can just call it that, and it shall be done when it comes to canon lore?

Yeah yeah :) - but I'm supremely interested to see what our Tenno think and respond to!

[Zakharon]

Yeah yeah :) - but I'm supremely interested to see what our Tenno think and respond to!

Just an update the images for some of the syndicate leaders are glitchy atm like red veil, also any plans to give us some sort of hub for syndicates with npcs(friendly) 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Zakharon

[Llyssa]

Yeah yeah :) - but I'm supremely interested to see what our Tenno think and respond to!

He is not afraid to admit he could be wrong! It is what makes WF great.

[HappyApathy]

@Steve

 

Is it okay to just jump in here and ask if the syndicates we see are what we get for the foreseeable future, or are there plans/possibilities for more groups appearing in the future?

Edited October 29, 2014 by HappyApathy

[LukeAura]

In my mind, The Veil do not slaughter innocents at all - the Veil are anti-establishment pure and simple and Meridian are against the establishment at all. Veil are just more chaotic - they want revenge and retribution and hate the 'system' itself. Meridian is about justice and protection, they hate what the system does.

This sounds like it has the potential to use my favourite word. 

Antidisestablishmentarianism. 

[MantisCore]

This sounds like it has the potential to use my favourite word. 

Antidisestablishmentarianism. 

 

In this case, don't you mean antiestablishmentarianism?

[Saint_of_Grey]

In my mind, The Veil do not slaughter innocents at all - the Veil are anti-establishment pure and simple and Meridian are against the establishment at all. Veil are just more chaotic - they want revenge and retribution and hate the 'system' itself. Meridian is about justice and protection, they hate what the system does.

So the Meridian protect the innocent, whereas the Veil punish the guilty?