Did We Really Need More Inconsistencies, Confusions And Lack Of Logic?

[Azamagon]

*sigh*

 

DE, you don't exactly have a good trackrecord when it comes to being consistent (thread is very out of date, due to the severe amount of problems in need of fixing constantly being added which I did not have energy to keep track off, but still) ... so why do you add so much more?!

 

Let me show some of the new flaws:

* Archwing melee mods: All elemental mods give 120% bonus... except for Electric (of course -.-) only giving 60%. Why?! This is not the case of the Archwing GUN mods though, they all give a 120% bonus for all elements. Just because?

* Odanata archwing is a hybrid of offense and defense. Elytron archwing is an offensive-focused archwing. Their names though: Elytron is the protective wing-casing of certain insects, while Odanata is an order of carnivorous insects that encompasses dragonflies and damselflies (read: a quite offensive kind of insect). Derpy nameswap or "funny irony"? Hint: It's not funny.

* About 50% of the new Syndicate mod augments are 100% useless for solo players. Thank you for that (Not!)

* The new status duration mods... Now this is just hilariously depressing:

1) Rifle version - Base modcost: 4. Ranks: 4. Bonus: 25% per rank (So max modcost 7 and max bonus 100%)

2) Shotgun version - Base modcost: 6. Ranks: 6. Bonus: 5% per rank (So max modcost 11 and max bonus 30%)

3) Pistol version - Base modcost: 6. Ranks: 6. Bonus: 5% per rank (So max modcost 11 and max bonus 30%)

4) Melee version - Base modcost: 6. Ranks: 11. Bonus: 10% per rank (So max modcost 16 and max bonus 110%)

 

I'm at a loss for words... how the flying buttmonkey is these kind of inconsistencies allowed?! Who makes these decisions? I ... I don't even ... The only viable one of these is the Rifle one. And 16 points for the melee one?! Only 30% effect for the shotgun and pistol ones? *sigh*

 

I'm gonna stop listing some of the new stuff, because it is giving me a severe headache :/

 

DE!

Seriously now... How? Why? WHY?! At least explain WHY! WHYYYYY these horrible decisions?

 

Seriously, I want a response WHY!

 

For "fun" though, here's a little example list of some old stuff of similar problems (still not fixed!):

* AkLato vs Lato (and most other single vs dual pistols). Seriously now, how do you even forget to buff the dual counterpart's damage when you buffed the single one? It never slipped your mind? At ALL?

* Neurodes and Neural Sensors... can their pictures EVER be switched so they make sense? (Because, if not swapped then Neurodes = Gooey eyeballs which is apparently of Grineer design (ok?), and Neural sensors = Robotic device with a Grineer symbol on, but is apparently infested tissuemass (like, toootally dude! >_>)

* Contagion and Venom, those certainly also have had their names swapped! (Contagion/Venom, Neurodes/Neural Sensors, lots of the melee stances... they seems to incorrectly swap a LOT of names in this game for some reason)

* The normal status mods (the basic ones), still horribly subpar, despite being promised to be buffed!

* Serration versus Hornet Strike versus Point Blank versus Pressure point + Heavy Caliber versus Magnum Force versus Vicious Spread versus Spoiled Strike etc etc etc etc etc... (The problematic modlist is way too long)

 

DE, you know what seperates a meh/decent/good game from a GREAT game? Details and consistency. Considering the lack of those things in Warframe, I'm gonna go out on a limb here:

 

Warframe is still in ALPHA, it's not even close to Beta. If it was in Beta, balancing and fixing easily fixed things like the above stuff would've been taken care of looooooooooooong time ago.

 

Peace out!

/A grumpy nitpicker! >_<

Edited November 2, 2014 by Azamagon

[Kestral9999]

Holy hell if this stuff bothers you so damned much why are you still playing?

 

Consistency and balance aren't always the same thing my friend. Not to say nor insinuate that any of this game is terribly well balanced. I just think they are focusing more on balance than consistency.

[Rexlars]

A grumpy nitpicker! >_<

 

Very nitpicky indeed. 

[Institute-Marksman]

Yeah, all the stuff you just said, its the price we pay to enjoy new content. Cant fix what we dont have.

[Azamagon]

1) Holy hell if this stuff bothers you so damned much why are you still playing?

 

2) Consistency and balance aren't always the same thing my friend. Not to say nor insinuate that any of this game is terribly well balanced. I just think they are focusing more on balance than consistency.

 

1) Because I've been with this game for a looong time and invested far too much money to let go of it. Back then when I started I thought the game had so much potential (and I still think so!), and the game certainly delivers in art, "feel" and overall creativity... but everything else though

2) Ummm, how did you just miss the connection you just pointed out yourself?

 

> Game is not consistent, nor is it well balanced

 

Sooo, you say they focus more on balance, instead of consistency, and end up with terrible balance... That says nothing to you? >_>

 

EDIT: And is feedback (negative in particular) not one of the best way to get things fixed / improved / balanced?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Azamagon

[Unibot]

Got to agree, he got a point here.

[Azamagon]

Yeah, all the stuff you just said, its the price we pay to enjoy new content. Cant fix what we dont have.

New content =/= Logical, easy to spot numbers.

 

Balance in some ways can be hard to see/fix (Hmmm, this enemy hits too hard etc) and takes time to fix.

But stuff like the electric melee mod being half as strong compared to all other elemental mods for no apparent reason... yeah, that's not "hard to see/fix" that's pure sloppiness. Or laziness. Or both.

[Kestral9999]

1) Because I've been with this game for a looong time and invested far too much money to let go of it. Back then when I started I thought the game had so much potential (and I still think so!), and the game certainly delivers in art, "feel" and overall creativity... but everything else though

2) Ummm, how did you just miss the connection you just pointed out yourself?

 

> Game is not consistent, nor is it well balanced

 

Sooo, you say they focus more on balance, instead of consistency, and end up with terrible balance... That says nothing to you? >_>

DE sucks at balancing things. That's pretty much it.

 

Shifting their focus to consistency, instead, isn't really a way to solve the issues with their balance and in fact might make rebalancing even more difficult.

 

So choose, do you want consistency or balance? You really can't have both without a complete rework of ALL of the stats in the game.

 

 

And as for the invested interest in the game, I swear to you that I'm not bragging (in fact I'm somewhat ashamed) but I can nigh guarantee that I've spent far more money on this game than you. I've bought plat countless times aside from EVERY prime access (for the accessories) and founders items as well. None of that contributes to the delusional notion that I'm obligated to play the game if it goes massively downhill. Though, admittedly, it might very well alter my perception of whether or not the game is indeed going downhill. That's just natural though. Kinda like how people will never admit that another phone might be better than theirs because they already spent so much money on their own phone.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Kestral9999

[Azamagon]

So choose, do you want consistency or balance? You really can't have both without a complete rework of ALL of the stats in the game.

I choose consistency + balance + rework ALL the stats in the game.

 

It's the only way to fix the horrible numbers in this game, really. It's the only option for weapons (all of them) + abilities + enemies to scale better alongside one another. And it's better they do these fixes sooner than later, otherwise they are just gonna have more fixing to do later!

[Kestral9999]

I choose consistency + balance + rework ALL the stats in the game.

 

It's the only way to fix the horrible numbers in this game, really. It's the only option for weapons (all of them) + abilities + enemies to scale better alongside one another. And it's better they do these fixes sooner than later, otherwise they are just gonna have more fixing to do later!

Cool, you keep fighting for that while DE keeps not doing that.

 

We are pretty much beyond the point that they might go back and rebalance the entire game.

 

Who knows? I could be wrong. But they've been aware of these issues of balance and consistency for soooooo long, and have done very very little in response. Certainly nothing that would denote an interest in a full rebalance.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Kestral9999

[grillv20]

If DE spent as much time building on the core of their game and tweaking it to make it something better it would be a much better game. Instead they're locked in this endless cycle for what seems like forever now of just creating new content and forgetting about the older stuff in their game. 

 

I made my own thread about this the other day for ranting https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/332982-old-content-and-the-future-of-warframe/

 

If they just spent time polishing what was already out and adding more depth of play rather than tacking on an entirely new thing with each update warframe would be a great game! For a game that advertises itself as open beta you would assume that they would at least go back and work on some of this stuff. Why can't we straight up make some mods yet btw? Is there something scary about crafting mods or something? It sure would be nice to at least have a chance for some of the mods out there that are literally a <1% drop rate.

 

Literally warframe is more or less the same as it was when it was in closed beta as far as gameplay goes. Now we just have more flashy weapons and new warframes and a stamina system lol. Stealth does not exist and there is literally almost no reason to go exploring tile sets. Whats the point in random level generation if you're just running in a straight line anyways? Hell, most games at least have optional objectives at the very least on a level to level basis.

Edited October 27, 2014 by grillv20

[Azamagon]

Cool, you keep fighting for that while DE keeps not doing that.

 

We are pretty much beyond the point that they might go back and rebalance the entire game.

 

Who knows? I could be wrong. But they've been aware of these issues of balance and consistency for soooooo long, and have done very very little in response. Certainly nothing that would denote an interest in a full rebalance.

I'm never gonna give it up! :D I really hope, some day, that they are gonna have a "rebalance" update. One can only dream :/ Bullheaded as they are (they have even said that they are so themselves!), they DO make some surprisingly good changes here and there (in contrast to the "boring but effective" buffs of Oberon and Excalibur, bleh). And they still deliver decently well in terms of content. I just wish they focused more on QUALITY over QUANTITY...

 

And sometimes, one just gotta rant. I mean, after this response, I'm gonna go and play some Warframe anyway! :D

 

 

Oh and for this part (not that it is superimportant)

 

Since I'm both ashamed and proud, I'm gonna keep it in spoiler :D

And as for the invested interest in the game, I swear to you that I'm not bragging (in fact I'm somewhat ashamed) but I can nigh guarantee that I've spent far more money on this game than you. I've bought plat countless times aside from EVERY prime access (for the accessories) and founders items as well. None of that contributes to the delusional notion that I'm obligated to play the game if it goes massively downhill. Though, admittedly, it might very well alter my perception of whether or not the game is indeed going downhill. That's just natural though. Kinda like how people will never admit that another phone might be better than theirs because they already spent so much money on their own phone.

Alright, let's compare lol!

Grand Master Founder + Rhino Pack + Loki Pack + Ember Pack + Nyx Pack (all 4 the biggest bundles). Still think you have payed more? :P

[Kestral9999]

I'm never gonna give it up! :D I really hope, some day, that they are gonna have a "rebalance" update. One can only dream :/ Bullheaded as they are (they have even said that they are so themselves!), they DO make some surprisingly good changes here and there (in contrast to the "boring but effective" buffs of Oberon and Excalibur, bleh). And they still deliver decently well in terms of content. I just wish they focused more on QUALITY over QUANTITY...

 

And sometimes, one just gotta rant. I mean, after this response, I'm gonna go and play some Warframe anyway! :D

 

 

Oh and for this part (not that it is superimportant)

 

Since I'm both ashamed and proud, I'm gonna keep it in spoiler :D

Alright, let's compare lol!

Grand Master Founder + Rhino Pack + Loki Pack + Ember Pack + Nyx Pack (all 4 the biggest bundles). Still think you have payed more? :P

Actually yes, it really is quite possible, last I checked (I'm primarily a PS4 player) I have spent just over 1200 on a completely free game. (I'll admit, I neglected to realize you were a grandmaster somehow.) But I digress;

 

If anything we are quite similar and that really wasn't the point of me saying that. I was simply stating that no amount of money that you've dropped into a game should force you to play if you have fundamental issues with the game itself. Nor should it entitle you to think your opinion matters over anyone else's, not that I'm accusing you of that. It just happens a lot.

 

 

I'm sure we will probably get a complete rebalance of the game the same update we get a complete reworking of the parkour mechanics. Update 27: Soon Rising.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Kestral9999

[Liminal]

We are pretty much beyond the point that they might go back and rebalance the entire game.

 

Who knows? I could be wrong. But they've been aware of these issues of balance and consistency for soooooo long, and have done very very little in response. Certainly nothing that would denote an interest in a full rebalance.

While I do agree it's extremely unlikely it will happen, in theory it's the "price" of keeping the beta tag. If you say "it's just beta" then it also means you still have time to work on the very foundations of the game.Especially when it comes to stuff that's broken!

 

Better to keep making threads that show we are not happy with these things than send the wrong message by shutting up imo.

[Kestral9999]

While I do agree it's extremely unlikely it will happen, in theory it's the "price" of keeping the beta tag. If you say "it's just beta" then it also means you still have time to work on the very foundations of the game.Especially when it comes to stuff that's broken!

 

Better to keep making threads that show we are not happy with these things than send the wrong message by shutting up imo.

Hmmmmmmmmm, that's a rather valid point. The Beta tag is rather useful for that purpose as is the community ranting on the crap balance. 

 

Anyway, this wasn't anything personal against OP, just wanted to point out that DE's interests seem to lie with their awful idea of balance rather than consistency with the mods.

[grillv20]

If there were more than 1 person doing all the coding for that stuff it would be great....but apparently Scott is the only person doing it. Its really strange.

[Noble_Cactus]

Holy hell if this stuff bothers you so damned much why are you still playing?

 

Consistency and balance aren't always the same thing my friend. Not to say nor insinuate that any of this game is terribly well balanced. I just think they are focusing more on balance than consistency.

It's the little details that count.

That's a cliche, but it's really true. Having or lacking a certain level of polish can really make or break the player experience for a lot of people. Think of them as little scratches, tears, and breaks. Individually they might not seem like much, but over time they will add up and make the game look very sloppy.

Also, to add to the OP: Contagion and Venom. The names should be swapped given what the abilities do.

[Kestral9999]

Also, to add to the OP: Contagion and Venom. The names should be swapped given what the abilities do.

I've been saying that since the first time I used Saryn.

[Azamagon]

While I do agree it's extremely unlikely it will happen, in theory it's the "price" of keeping the beta tag. If you say "it's just beta" then it also means you still have time to work on the very foundations of the game.Especially when it comes to stuff that's broken!

 

Better to keep making threads that show we are not happy with these things than send the wrong message by shutting up imo.

Exactly, thank you! :)

 

Hmmmmmmmmm, that's a rather valid point. The Beta tag is rather useful for that purpose as is the community ranting on the crap balance. 

 

Anyway, this wasn't anything personal against OP, just wanted to point out that DE's interests seem to lie with their awful idea of balance rather than consistency with the mods.

Don't worry, not taking anything as a personal attack or anything ^^

To the point though: Consistency and balance SHOULD certainly go hand in hand, otherwise you'll just have nitpickers like me that will never stop whining :P

 

If there were more than 1 person doing all the coding for that stuff it would be great....but apparently Scott is the only person doing it. Its really strange.

I bet he is overwhelmed with stuff to do, so often he just has to slap on random numbers etc. And that's just not healthy for this game in the least! Wish I could help him with numbers and so on :)

 

It's the little details that count.

That's a cliche, but it's really true. Having or lacking a certain level of polish can really make or break the player experience for a lot of people. Think of them as little scratches, tears, and breaks. Individually they might not seem like much, but over time they will add up and make the game look very sloppy.

Also, to add to the OP: Contagion and Venom. The names should be swapped given what the abilities do.

Yuuup, certainly true. It wouldn't be such a big issue if it was just one or two things a little mixed up or so. But EVERYTHING is so messed up, no wonder people like me will keep complaining. And the more stuff they add, the more they have to fix (since the fundation is utterly broken). Fix the foundation first, then add the new stuff!

I find it kinda funny/depressing though: Archwing is a whole new set of stuff. Yet even with such a "new foundation", they ALREADY break it with wonky and inconsistent numbers... I just don't get their passion for all this randomness! >_<

 

About Contagion/Venom, yeah I agreed (a lot of stuff seem to have their names swapped in this game) but remember, I was just giving examples, not the whole list of things. I can add it though ^_^

[NN13]

I was actually thinking of opening a thread about the stats of the mods. While I don't really care about naming....I really do not understand the logic behind the nerfed stats of Shocking Touch(Electric melee,60% at max rank) and North Wind(Cold melee,60% at max rank) compared to Fever Strike(Poison melee,90% at max rank) and Molten Impact(Fire melee,90% at max rank) while all of them cost 11 mod points.

 

Don't know whose idea was it,but its just ridiculous.

 

Thanks for opening the thread about this. =)

Edited November 2, 2014 by NN13

[Ska-boo]

Maybe they use RNG not just to decide what reward we will get for another mission, but also to determine stats of all new stuff they introduce into game?

[Davoodoo]

Cool, you keep fighting for that while DE keeps not doing that.

 

We are pretty much beyond the point that they might go back and rebalance the entire game.

 

Who knows? I could be wrong. But they've been aware of these issues of balance and consistency for soooooo long, and have done very very little in response. Certainly nothing that would denote an interest in a full rebalance.

Devs claim its beta, so if its beta then we arent past that point.

 

Either way its lying or just incompetence.

 

 

As for other mods.

1)archwing range, 1% per rank, this mod might aswell not exist.

2)archmelee crit dmg, 10% per rank, 10 ranks, on weapon class which have very low crit chance.

3)archgun crit chance, 10% per rank, 3 ranks,  we have crit weapon, but 40% of 15% will be barely 21% meaning that even as high crit weapon by archgun standards its better to equip another element.

 

Maybe its not about consistency but these 3 examples are just stupid, how could it get past initial testing idk, unless there was no initial testing but wtf is going on then?? even if its beta, beta isnt garbage dump, you should at least check basic stuff, like obvious numbers, if game even launches, does it crash in certain common situations.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Davoodoo