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Limbo, Development And Feedback

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And none of those make you do 0 damage by default. Visuals are just visuals, you can still shoot at any point. Its fairly minor:

-Bounce has a fixed number of bounces.

-Switch teleporting is the only troll ability, but ultimately it is only done while not in combat (else the loki get caught amidst the horde)

-I can't recall the last time Volt's speed changed perspective, it just makes you faster in everything.

-Snowglobe hasn't done anything detrimental because it is a fixed deployable in a very mobile game. If anyone were to try and block your shots, you can just enter it.

-Hall of Mirrors is just plain awesome, even moreso with shiny disco balls.

 

If movement is inhibited or I lack the ability to see properly, I can't shoot at enemies.  Also if I crash (Hall of Mirrors and particle spam weapons like Torid/Penta/etc) then not only can I do no damage I'm popped out of the game entirely.

 

The fixed number of bounces means little when Bounce is spammable ad nauseum, you know.

 

Again, all of these powers delay or offset the ability to function on a team.  And none of them have been addressed before.  If having trolls using Limbo is an issue, then be more selective on who you run with or ask people not to use Limbo.

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- Vauban putting Bounces around an entire room making it impossible to walk in a straight line

- Loki constantly Switch Teleporting which disorients and makes it difficult face enemies

- Volt's Speed changing the perspective which gives some players motion issues

- Frost's Snow Globe making it difficult to see anything, not to mention being impossible to shoot into

- Hall of Mirrors particle spam which can toss FPS into the toilet or cause people to crash

 

Need I go on?

Need I repeat myself? None of these ablities take away your ability to fight for an extended period of time. There is a way around all of these. But there isn't any way around banishing. 

Bounces everywhere? Let enemies run into them and get rid of them. And you can still shoot in the air. 

Switch teleport? The loki isn't paying attention to enemies and will get himself killed soon enough.

Speed? Anyone with eyes that work properly can deal with the FOV shift. Besides, the FOV shift only applies to the user. 

Snow Globe? Seriously? It's very easy to see through. And if you need to shoot enemies inside it, simply walk in.

Hall of mirrors? I haven't had a single crash from that since they fixed the last big bug, it's not even an issue anymore. 

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Banishing them one at a time is good for tactical combat. If I was forced to MASS banish them I wouldn't use it at all. I like to bring one enemy at a time into the rift to pick them off. If anything I think Rift walk needs more time, and Limbo as a whole needs more energy to allow staying in Rift walk mode longer, and banish enemies one at a time to pick them off from the rest of the crowd as taking on an entire army while a napalm, kubrow, or bombard is tanking you all at once can become quite a heavy burden on a light armored Limbo.

 

Being able to control who you fight is where Limbo should excel, and should be extended to who should, and shouldn't be able to fight during a rift control fight. Such as moving certain enemies into the rift with limbo, and one other player who are light armored to pick off light enemies like scorpions, shields, and various lancers while the heavy units stay within real space to fight heavy units, or vice versa picking off one heavy unit at a time while heavies like Rhino, and friends smash through the weak small fry.

 

edit: Also the 4th ability should be left as is. Its basically so much better than Frost Snow globe. I can trap a group of enemies who can now no longer shoot me till they come out of the rift in which I can cut them down one at a time as they come out with Dragon nikana, or Boltor prime. It makes controlling the enemy coming at me more easy.

What if banish instant kill low level enemies leaving higher level enemies if its made into a AOE ability? 

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But that'd drastically add a -100 to his coop value,unfortunately... :/

False. If I'm trying to kill enemies, and I get banished for a full minute, It's taking away from his co-op value. 

Edited by Plasmaface
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  • Banish has already been updated to receive ‘a recast’, but we’re currently thinking about combining Banish and Rift Walk into the same power to help minimize mandatory ability rotations.

I think the idea from Mogamu's video is the best solution:

- If you attack an enemy, while Rift Walk is active, an enemy is brought to the rift. And Banish may be changed to something completely different.

 

And I think the idea of bringing other players to the rift is not really good. That's the other reason why I want Banish be replaced with another skill and the ability to send enemies to the rift should be left to Rift Walk and Cataclysm.

Edited by AlienOvermind
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I personaly feel rift walk and banish ( depending on how its implemented ) should be separate abilities, i have been using rift walk to revive team mates a lot, and if had to drag an enemy to the rift oto be able to revive a teammate, i would surely die since Limbo is reasonably squishy. ( Once again, they might do something aroudn the lines of making banish aoe and aiming on your feet sends you there, but i prefer the precision and control Rift Walk currently offers ).

I also think that Rift Surge should do something else altogether, i would prefer if any enemy sent to the Rift through ANY ability took 50% extra damage and Rift Surge was either a AOE CC or ( similar to Mirage´s Eclipse ) affect people on the normal plane and rift plane diferently ( would be nice if it was an AOE skill that sends any target on normal plane in an area to the rift and knocks them down, and any target on the same area but on the rift, is sent back to the normal plane and takes damage ).

The idea of banish being aoe around the target hit apeals to me more then a cone attack since you get to pick the targets you wanna send to the rift with more precision that way.

His ult should probably do more damage or damage over time ( dont really care about those much ), but personally something i think it DESPERATLY needs is being toggleable, since you want long durations on most of limbo´s skills except this one as it becomes less and less effective over time.

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My own take on Limbo changes:

 

Combine skills 1 & 2 on a single portal sphere-creation. Targeted on the reticule, Limbo can point to its own feet, or an enemy, or another warframe. The sphere size can affect more than one target. 

 

Second skill creates a static copy of Limbo like Loki's decoy. but any warframe can walk into it and use it as an armor. This Armor's HP decays over time. 

 

Rift Surge would also slow down targets. 

 

Cataclysm should do a blast also in its final collapse. 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/334758-limbo-feedback-suggestion-to-change-in-abilities/

Edited by BrazilianJoe

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I personaly feel rift walk and banish ( depending on how its implemented ) should be separate abilities, i have been using rift walk to revive team mates a lot, and if had to drag an enemy to the rift oto be able to revive a teammate, i would surely die since Limbo is reasonably squishy. ( Once again, they might do something aroudn the lines of making banish aoe and aiming on your feet sends you there, but i prefer the precision and control Rift Walk currently offers ).

...

I would think that if they are combined as one ability, you can active that ability and the enemy cannot hit you but you can hit them and bring one or some in the moment you hit them and they would be in a weakened stage. Or you can chose to heal your ally and bring him in the rift with you at that moment. Edited by ndantony

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There are other things that you may want to add to that list!

 

1. Cataclysm should not shrink. It forces players to get a little too cozy with each other and enemies.

2. Visuals. The Rift has some visuals that can be a bit painful to the eye. Surely there is a better way to show when you are in the Rift.

3. Not "an ‘unbanish’ action should be possible by Limbo" but "an ‘unbanish’ action should be possible by allies".

all this + unbanish by Limbo and allies. Because, why not?

Edited by RawGritz

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I think the idea from Mogamu's video is the best solution:

- If you attack an enemy, while Rift Walk is active, an enemy is brought to the rift. And Banish may be changed to something completely different.

 

Didn't know Mogamu had a vid out of Limbo. I'll watch it. My post on pg.3 had that same idea. If more than 1 person has thought of it, then I think it's something that people can get behind. 

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Ok so after playing with him for 3 days without break I think that this Warframe is very good and has a lot of potential the tweaks that were made helped the gameplay alot even though it is very hard to target allies that run around like crazy to get them back out of the rift

He is the new king of pod (general) defense as his ult is extremly usefull to shield the pod, even more usefull than frost or volt since frosts shield pops in 1hit at higher lvls and volts shields dont block high flying bullets / bullets shot from above furthermore you can just hide inside the bubble and kill everything that comes inside

 In infested defense you can banish your allies and cataclysm the pod and shoot from 3m outside of cataclysm and everything inside dies and you are invulnerable

The energy regain is nice too and im not that worried about the dmg multipler (even though it could be 2-3x) since it multiplies dmg of EVERYTHING in the bubble and lasts 50-60 seconds with max duration however

 

WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PICK UP STUFF IN CATACLYSM ( since the items are in cataclysm too doesnt that mean they are on the other plane as well?)

The shrinking is annoying at times even though I can understand the idea of rifts closing but its not gamebreaking annoying so its ok

and the visuals gave me headache and I think im epileptic now(definetly hurts when i see flashing lights) 

 

Personally i do not know how you want to combine banish and riftwalk (maybe everything you attack with melee gets pulled into the rift) but if it is effective and still gives you the option to choose when to riftwalk anytime I will support that idea

 

This frame is almost overpowered(if used right and if you have a decent teamspeak server/skype/whatever because this frame needs communication, talking about that banish fiasco) and I do not think that he needs many more tweaks ( even though im excited what additional ability he can get if banish and riftwalk = 1 ability)

Edited by Seyenas
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  • Banish has already been updated to receive ‘a recast’, but we’re currently thinking about combining Banish and Rift Walk into the same power to help minimize mandatory ability rotations.

 

IMHO they should be separate powers, but both should work on self, allies and enemies. Banish as duration based (no target = applies to Limbo himself) swap and Rift Walk as a toggle based swap. Toggling Limbo himself would be super cheap to minimize micromanagement by allowing him to only worry about banishing while he leaves himself toggled. Toggling an ally would be VERY expensive to prevent abuse/exploit/easymode. Toggling an enemy would be a medium cost, very close to banish's cost divided by it's duration per second.

 

I don't like the damage buff power. Very "MEH" even if it was amazing damage. Seems boring. I'd much rather have a teleport or movement skill.

 

My 2¢.

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For everyone saying "Banish and Rift Walk should stay separate", just remember that we don't exactly know how it will be implemented. Chances are that it will be better than current Rift Walk and Banish combined

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Personally I think Banish and Rift Walk should be separate abilities, and feel one of the biggest issues is the fact that Banish is single-target. 

 

I feel that Banish would become a much more useful ability if it was more of an AoE/Cone attack similar to Mag's Pull.

 

If there is any ability I feel that needs a rework/replacement I believe it is Rift Surge.

 

 

Agreed. Or instead change Banish so that a small void portal opens up and sucks the targeted enemy into the void. The portal would remain in the location that the target was hit by Banish. This portal would allow players to enter and exit the void at will, while keeping banished enemies trapped inside.

 

Rift Walk is useful for Limbo to duck out of danger when swarmed by enemies. I prefer to keep Rift Walk, but I think we can all agree that Banish is the real problem people have with Limbo. Don't fix one problem just two create another.

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his 3rd ability should always be on for himself and allies whenever they're in the rift state. It shouldn't be an ability to do more damage in that state, the 3rd ability should be replaced entirely with a new skill.

 

perhaps an invisibility skill with increased movement speed while in rift state. that would be useful.

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Banish has already been updated to receive ‘a recast’, but we’re currently thinking about combining Banish and Rift Walk into the same power to help minimize mandatory ability rotations.

I'd like to voice my opposition to the idea of combining Rift Walk and Banish.  Being able to escape into the Rift Plane is Limbo's principal defense, and I'd hate to see it crippled by requiring an enemy under the reticle or something similar.

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How about this for Rift Surge?

 

Make it a frontal cone AoE Banish, and any enemy sent into the void by this power has the Rift Surge debuff on them?

 

-Jin

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Changing rift walk in any way is probably a terrible idea because its just too important.

 

1. Banish needs a quick hold option for aoe.

2.

3. Initial Blast Status, Reset Duration of all other abilities, 2x Damage

4. Multi-Cast

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Powers are being looked into good, but what about the visual effects ? All the power related animations seemed rushed and recycled, ult looks like a shrinking snow globe and even though you supposedly disappear from the plane of existence into the rift you just glow purple ? Same with enemies, Limbo needs an major overhaul the only thing i personally think they got right was his personal animations and poses they look amazing and add a good personality but then his power animations and effects are VERY lack luster.

 

My changed to the way they look ? Make LImbo actually disappear from the plane into his own rift world that only you and enemies banished into it see and players. I want to see limbo disappear completely and then see 10 or 15 enemies go with him and he pops back into our world with a pile of body parts and a classy shazam.

 

Not him making himself and other enemies glow.

 

His ult needs to create a big  swirling mass that you can't see through and you can enter to do more damage with enemies and when you toggle it off it shrinks almost instantly crushing everything inside into a ball of meat and chunks.

 

Limbo should be the classiest rift manipulating mass murderer. Not some glowing birthday party magician.

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Ideally, rather than it being a white and black "You can't affect enemies in the other plane" situation that it is now, there needs to be a small amount of overlap. As it is now, Limbo can simply put himself or an ally inside of the Rift and leave them there, totally invulnerable to damage. Teammates put here have no choice but to wait until Banish runs out. This also means that an A****** playing a Limbo can walk in and strand teammates in the rift for large amounts of time, preventing them from doing much of anything besides running around and using their powers.

 

A way to fix this would be to instate a simple 75% reduction on damage and effects between planes, rather than the 100% that we have now. Or maybe cut the effect on teammates in half: 1 energy per second, and a 50% reduction in damage dealt and recieved from opposing planes.

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Easy fixes for Limbo that won't require his abilities to change much.

 

Banish:

 

- Now a small area of affect akin to Mag's pull or Oberon's Smite.

- Instead of 500 impact damage have it do 300 blast and 300 puncture with a 100% proc chance on both types.

- Allies who have banished get a special buff allowing them to fire weapons at enemies outside of the rift with a 20% damage debuff. Does not work on Limbo only allies.

- Allies can leave the rift if they want by hitting X.

 

Rift Walk:

 

- Limbo can pass through enemies that are not in the rift.

- Passing through enemies gives them a heavy move speed slow and attack speed slow. Thus, a Limbo who is using Rift Walk to escape danger or heal, can still help by running through enemies and slowing them down for his team.

- Every enemy Limbo slows eats 5 energy.

 

Rift Surge:

 

- Limbo and Allies convert 10% of their outgoing damage while in the rift into shields and health. Similar to leech eximus.

- Damage bonus brought down from 300% to 200%

- The buff allies receive from Banish allowing them to fire on enemies outside the rift stacks with the life leech and shield leech caused by Surge.

 

Cataclysm:

 

- Have it shrink at half the speed it currently shrinks if allies or Limbo are inside.

- Have it shrink at twice the speed it currently shrinks if no allies are within it.

- Slightly lessen the particle effects, or more appropriately, have them based more off Limbo's energy color

- The same buff allies receive from Banish allowing them to fire out of the rift plane works in the Cataclysm sphere

- Damage lowered from 500 Blast to 200 Blast and 200 Puncture with 100% proc chance

- Enemies can no longer wander out of the Cataclysm.

- Enemies are trapped inside and slowly pushed together as the sphere shrinks. This allows Limbo to temporarily hold enemies in place similar to Vauban's Bastille or Hydroid's Puddle.

- When the sphere finally collapses all enemies within take 400 Puncture instead of 300 impact.

- Enemies within a 5 meter radius of the collapsing sphere take a 100% Blast proc.

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My main gripe with Limbo is his ridiculous hat...I've said it before, and I'll say it again: What the Moa does a Tenno have a hat for?! It so doesn't fit Warframe. Please do consider aesthetics feedback as well ;P

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Edit: im gonna keep updating this as i get feedback..

 

Banish - i think banish should be like mag's pull, as it ranks up it banishes more enemys in the target area without your reticle having to be on an enemy just within the direction and range and honestly i think you should just take allied banish out, even if you change it i think its still going to be something others wont like.. but if you add in my suggestion for the additions/changes to the 3rd i think people would enjoy it

 

Rift walk - Combine it with banish, when you banish a group your all ready to deal with them! but while in the void you should take less damage as to not die instantly..

 

Void shatter - (this would be the new 2nd) pull allies and enemy's from the void, this would return you and everything else from the void, it would deal damage to all enemy's and the damage reduction from the void would linger for a time. as a second option, instead of damaging enemys it could apply the extra damage from the current rift surge into a debuff.. making enemys take more damage once you toss the out of the rift

 

Rift surge - Make it deal damage and apply a stun, this with a lower cast time would make the void your playground, keeping the current damage boots would be optional

 

Cataclysm - keep it how it is, but.. make it so it doesn't shrink, enemy's and allies can move in and out at will, but allies will take less damage while inside. rift surge will affect all enemy's within as well for more ability synergy

 

 

the rate at which you kill most enemy's in this game banishing a single enemy really means nothing.. by the time you have banished him, rift walked and then killed him everyone has moved on to the next group if there not gone entirely..

 

adding an agreement button to be banished would take up too much time, having a portal would force allies to move, potentially into danger or away form an objective, simply allowing them to roll or back flip out of the void would be good enough

 

combining the number 1 ability with the new Void shatter would allow you to banish a group and then kill them all, any that survive wouldn't be able to do much because of the lingering damage reduction

 

since the new 1 doesn't require a target you can still only banish yourself as well

 

i think this as a whole fixes all of the problems, and makes for a frame allies as well as those playing will enjoy :D

Edited by Kurrumitsumi

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My main gripe with Limbo is his ridiculous hat...I've said it before, and I'll say it again: What the Moa does a Tenno have a hat for?! It so doesn't fit Warframe. Please do consider aesthetics feedback as well ;P

 

If you watch his power animations and the like, it's clear his hat is the source of his power. Even his body glows, not his hat. Coincidence? I think not.

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I see alot of people are for and against combining the 1 and 2. But what about combining the 2 and 3 since the damage bonus only helps while he is in riftwalk any way or while cataclysm is up

 

This would just make it so its more expensive to enter the rift but when you do you gain other bonuses and frees up his 2 for another skill that might be aoe to bring enemies into rift.

Maybe something like marking all targets in range with rift energy if any are hit by banish they all get sent too the rift and if hit by cataclysm it adds more damage too it

 

Another idea could be turn his dodge roll into his riftwalk, instead of actually dodging he can use this too phase in and out of the rift at the cost of some energy

 

Overall i like the way his 1 and 2 currently work and im loving the 4 more and more tho it really needs to let you pick drops up

Never really found a use for 3 atm but with a maxed out range build the cataclysm is as large as most of the more closed defense maps so could be used like a better m-prime or roar buff at higher lvls with the advantage of a frost globe as it shrinks 

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