Limbo, Development And Feedback

[Modryn]

I oppose the idea of combining Banish and Rift Walk.

 

Banish is fine the way it is. It shouldn't have an AoE attached to it. Right now Banish is very useful in disabling single dangerous targets. With an AoE component it would just pull in additional enemies that would either get in the way or force you to remain in the rift longer dealing with them. It also just leaves it open for people to banish entire mobs in a flash, which leads to another set of problems. I can already predict people complaining that Limbo is banishing all enemies so they can't be killed by them. The rift is also supposed to be a safe haven for Limbo, it's not good to have so much stuff moving around in there. I won't comment on the trolling aspects as I play with close friends and I don't believe legitimate plays should be punished because *some* people might abuse it, but I see the concern.

 

Rift Walk is perfectly fine, leave it as is. Only quality of life fix is maybe allowing us to pass through targets not in the rift.

 

Rift Surge could use some type of utility, damage drops off rather quickly so this ability won't see a lot of use on medium-high level planets or void missions. Besides, people would be using Limbo for his support and utility, not damage.

 

Cataclysm is fine as far as I'm concerned.

 

Aside from that just let people pick up loot in the rift.

 

Limbo is an advanced frame from the looks, and he shouldn't be easy, I think that fact needs to be recognize. I've seen a lot of suggestions in places that make it clear most people don't even know how he works. Hek, it seems like most people don't even realize you get energy back for being in the rift and that Rift Walk is toggable.

 

I'd also suggest DE not make any drastic changes to any frame so soon after release. Give people time to adjust and figure stuff out before making changes.

 

Just my 2 cents. I absolutely love Limbo and it would be saddening to see any of his abilities change.

[xxx7]

Technically it's not so much a hat as it is a detachable part of the frame, you might say that's semantics but I assure you those are two very different things. It's not a matter of hats+warframe as you put it. 

 

I'm not particular fond of hats to begin with, but you got a point there; the detachment of the hat is what makes it stand out in such a way.

[Erdhan]

I oppose the idea of combining Banish and Rift Walk.

 

Banish is fine the way it is. It shouldn't have an AoE attached to it. Right now Banish is very useful in disabling single dangerous targets. With an AoE component it would just pull in additional enemies that would either get in the way or force you to remain in the rift longer dealing with them. It also just leaves it open for people to banish entire mobs in a flash, which leads to another set of problems. I can already predict people complaining that Limbo is banishing all enemies so they can't be killed by them. The rift is also supposed to be a safe haven for Limbo, it's not good to have so much stuff moving around in there. I won't comment on the trolling aspects as I play with close friends and I don't believe legitimate plays should be punished because *some* people might abuse it, but I see the concern.

 

Rift Walk is perfectly fine, leave it as is. Only quality of life fix is maybe allowing us to pass through targets not in the rift.

 

Rift Surge could use some type of utility, damage drops off rather quickly so this ability won't see a lot of use on medium-high level planets or void missions. Besides, people would be using Limbo for his support and utility, not damage.

 

Cataclysm is fine as far as I'm concerned.

 

Aside from that just let people pick up loot in the rift.

 

Limbo is an advanced frame from the looks, and he shouldn't be easy, I think that fact needs to be recognize. I've seen a lot of suggestions in places that make it clear most people don't even know how he works. Hek, it seems like most people don't even realize you get energy back for being in the rift and that Rift Walk is toggable.

 

I'd also suggest DE not make any drastic changes to any frame so soon after release. Give people time to adjust and figure stuff out before making changes.

 

Just my 2 cents. I absolutely love Limbo and it would be saddening to see any of his abilities change.

Totally agree with this post. 

Limbo is supposed to be all about the rift(for those who didn't do the quest: The space between normal space and the Void) and sending friends, enemies and himself inside and outside of it. So no portals, no clouds of smoke, no other dimensions or void energies and no "rift lasers" please. Keep it simple and clean cause the concept while obviously requiring some tuning is awesome.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Redriamne

[GreyEnneract]

Many great suggestions in this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/331013-limbo-overall/

[Horonelius]

Can we just change rift surge to a projectile attack in which Limbo flings his hat at an enemy ALA Oddjob?

[Darkmoone1]

I had an idea to make Banish more effective for groups of enemies(Short and simple explanation):

 

So you banish one enemy and they remain in the Rift state, right? How about the enemy, over time, affects other enemies with its Rift state presence bringing them into the void like an infection? The time and rate at which enemies get sucked in would have to be calculated of course, but if you wanted more enemies in the void you leave the enemy alone. Otherwise you enter the rift yourself and kill the enemy.

 

How does that sound?

 

Also, allowing us to detonate Cataclysm prematurely for the damage and to set another somewhere else would also be amazing. :D

Edited October 30, 2014 by Darkmoone1

[weirdee]

I think Stalker should just be able to follow his designated target in and out of the rift instead of just him dispelling it.

[GreyEnneract]

I had an idea to make Banish more effective for groups of enemies(Short and simple explanation):

 

So you banish one enemy and they remain in the Rift state, right? How about the enemy, over time, affects other enemies with its Rift state presence bringing them into the void like an infection? The time and rate at which enemies get sucked in would have to be calculated of course, but if you wanted more enemies in the void you leave the enemy alone. Otherwise you enter the rift yourself and kill the enemy.

 

How does that sound?

 

Also, allowing us to detonate Cataclysm prematurely for the damage and to set another somewhere else would also be amazing. :D

Maybe like Venom, once you kill the enemy, or shoot it once, Banish spreads to nearby enemies.

That way it wouldn't affect too many enemies like Cataclysm, but would still be AOE.

I also agree with your Cataclysm proposal, but it should also knock down enemies that enter and leave, since Banish does that.

It would also be cool if enemies could not leave the Cataclysm space, forcing it to close in on them and group them together, then it explodes.

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

How about this guys, have Rift Walk summon a door in front of you when not aimed at a player and vice versa. This give your teammates the choice of going into the rift.This solution solves the trolling issue. As a add measure against trolls if a door is summoned in front of a running or walking player and there's no enemies inside the rift then the door stays open allowing them to leave if they want to. If the player decides to stay a counter will appear on their screen showing how much time they have in the rift until they're pushed out. Before I forget make the Haven augment mod for Limbo into Soothing Rift Walk. I pitched this idea earlier but I didn't think it all the way through. Thoughts and Comments? 

[Darkmoone1]

 

I also agree with your Cataclysm proposal, but it should also knock down enemies that enter and leave, since Banish does that.

It would also be cool if enemies could not leave the Cataclysm space, forcing it to close in on them and group them together, then it explodes.

That would be amazing TBH. Would give more flexibility to a stiff ability.

[Evanescent]

So about that gate idea....how about changing banish or rift surge that into an ability that goes like this:

 

When Limbo uses banish, he creates a gash in the rift in the the targeted enemy for it's duration. Target is stunned, and receives 300 damage everytime anything passes through it. Enemies around it at the moment of casting only are pulled into the rift.

 

Or rift surge could open a gash between planes In the banished enemy, with all the above mentioned effects. Damage bonus will apply ONLY while the affected enemy is alive.  

This solves the problem of opening a tactical gate in the battlefield, grants a unique aspect to Limbo, and highlights his core mechanics and theme.

 

Thoughts and suggestions?

[Evanescent]

Oh and please reduce banish's cost. right now it's a bit too much considering its extensive use. 

[GideonG]

Id still like to know ...

 

Are abilities used inside the Rift supposed to effect enemies outside the Rift? IE Rifted Ember's WoF, Volt's Shield, Vauban's Vortex, etc.

 

and

 

Are enemy auras outside the Rift supposed to effect allies inside the Rift?

 

Or are these currently bugs that will be fixed/ironed out?

Edited October 30, 2014 by GideonG

[Aspari]

I'm opposed to allowing Banish to continue being a thing. It's a troll gimmick and that's all it'll ever be until it no longer works on allies. It's easy to abuse (especially if you get your jollies from trolling) and it can't be justified for existing on its own because of the way Riftspace works and because it's always more effective to just kill your enemy than disable them and then kill them. That's why Rhino and Nova are so popular: they can kill AND disable with their abilities, or in Nova's case just kill very easily. Compared to other Warframes, Limbo is both redundant and a troll tool (and I only play him for the same reason I play Nekros, which is also a really bad Warframe. They're only played for aesthetic purposes, or in Nekros's case to use Desecrate for item farming.)

 

Limbo's appearance screams "Magician", so why not create powers for him that reflect on what magicians do in real life and literature? (Limbo's design is even a bit of a stretch considering how extremely distinct it is from the rest of the Warframe universe.) Magicians make things appear and disappear (Realspace and Riftspace don't work that way right now) and perform parlor tricks that are done in ways that make it look like all logic has been defied (which he has none to speak of).

 

 

Hek, you could have completely ripped off Dr. Strange and Limbo would be in a much better spot.

 

Oh and please reduce banish's cost. right now it's a bit too much considering its extensive use. 

You do know that you regenerate energy in Riftspace, right? Coupled with Energy Siphon you shouldn't be running out of energy anyway.

[Evanescent]

I'm opposed to allowing Banish to continue being a thing. It's a troll gimmick and that's all it'll ever be until it no longer works on allies. It's easy to abuse (especially if you get your jollies from trolling) and it can't be justified for existing on its own because of the way Riftspace works and because it's always more effective to just kill your enemy than disable them and then kill them. That's why Rhino and Nova are so popular: they can kill AND disable with their abilities, or in Nova's case just kill very easily. Compared to other Warframes, Limbo is both redundant and a troll tool (and I only play him for the same reason I play Nekros, which is also a really bad Warframe. They're only played for aesthetic purposes, or in Nekros's case to use Desecrate for item farming.)

 

Limbo's appearance screams "Magician", so why not create powers for him that reflect on what magicians do in real life and literature? (Limbo's design is even a bit of a stretch considering how extremely distinct it is from the rest of the Warframe universe.) Magicians make things appear and disappear (Realspace and Riftspace don't work that way right now) and perform parlor tricks that are done in ways that make it look like all logic has been defied (which he has none to speak of).

 

 

Hek, you could have completely ripped off Dr. Strange and Limbo would be in a much better spot.

 

You do know that you regenerate energy in Riftspace, right? Coupled with Energy Siphon you shouldn't be running out of energy anyway.

You do when you try to rapidly disable a platoon like I do sometimes to say, save the pod. It works, but drains my energy.

 

It's not for me to question your playstyle, but Limbo is far from redundant. I don't think well meaning players should suffer for some trolls. But then, not all frames are for everyone, like I can't handle rhino very well.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Evanescent

[Rhinobane]

My main issue is mostly with not being able to pick up items within cataclysm, but from what I understand, that's a bug? Also, as others have said, Banish being an AoE would help substantially, along with being able to remove yourself from being banished, possibly by rolling/back flipping/etc? At this point I'm just reiterating with what others said, I'm overall happy with Limbo, He's really great for defense and mobile defense.

 

Lastly, maybe this is just me, but the effect of being in the rift really hurts my eyes, maybe toning it down a bit, like to just resemble Loki's invisibility effect? Or at least a toggle option for the effects would be nice.

[hukurokuju5]

the polarizing nature of his skills make him EXTREMELY POWERFUL regardless of level.  

the ability to banish teammates and control which enemies can trade damage with teammates is reallly reallly reallly really powerful.  

 

the only thing stopping him from this are a couple things:

 

1) his current banish is  single target, making it too slow to fight the waves of enemies. Also, banish NEEDS TO BE exitable by teammtes who have been banished, or it becomes an unfun bully/troll skill.  Cataclysm is the solution by increasing the number of targets available to damage from the rift, but that leads me to the next point....>>

 

2) cataclysm creates a zone which enemies can enter or exit, although too easily. Also, the duration is really long for a skill that severely decreases in effectiveness as it shrinks over time.  Drop this skill on any melee anything and they will just waltz through like you hadnt even cast the skill.  

 

solution/ improvement: Either decrease duration or make it cancelable/ channeled/ toggled.  OR put some slow or debuff for some kind of OPPORTUNITY when cast (this will increase the fun factor an strategy factor).

[GreyEnneract]

Cataclysm should not allow enemies to exit, since Banished enemies can't exit the Rift (until the duration runs out).

Slowly grouping up enemies together as the Cataclysm shrinks.

[Coatduck]

A solution for the whole being banished fiasco would be to give Banished players the option to un-banish themselves. Possibly using the Interact key while being Banished would negate the effects imparted by the ability, and this would be a slap in the face to all the Limbo trolls out there.

I like this idea, but we may have to figure out how people can do things like activate life support and hack panels while phased.

[MECHANICAL_GURU]

I like this idea, but we may have to figure out how people can do things like activate life support and hack panels while phased.

That's easy: they can't.

 

If you're going to exist as a separate entity within the Rift, then you shouldn't be able to interact with anything not inside of the Rift. You can carry data masses with you if you rifted in with it in your hand, but you can't interact with anything otherwise.

[low1991]

first place in time-grind at the moment: Limbo!!! (need to grind for stock archwing followed-up by mirage' method)

RNG on limbo parts is a real troll.

RNG on proof fragment is nuts.

all of the mission have to be done as a 'quest' mission... which removes the ability of having a PUB joining.

 

at least mirage is more friendly...

[Temmron]

When it comes to making Warframes work, there has to be a trade-off for their abilities. I proposed that, in exchange for Limbo to permanently banish enemies to the Void, doing so will drain his energy (not by a huge amount). Being able to permanently send enemies to the Void gives a huge amount of control to the player, rather than the previous 30 seconds until the target gets sent back to real-space; that would force you to deal with enemies quickly rather than setting them aside for later.

 

The portal I would like to see replace Rift Walk (call it Rift Gate, someone called it that earlier) can stay open for say... 10 seconds, or however long Rift Walk already takes (30 seconds). The gate can be turned on and off as the Limbo sees fit, but it will stay open for quite a while if left unattended. The idea is that you "rip" the hole open, making a portal. Is that so hard to understand?

 

The "smoke" idea does not have to be thick, I was thinking more along the lines of wispy shadows that vaguely resemble the person/thing inside of the Void. They would be see-through. I have found myself shooting banished enemies by accident because I couldn't identify their current status; this would make it obvious. With them being see-through, it would make sense for anyone in the Void to lack collision with real-world entities (enemies). I mean, come on, they're in another dimension for crying out loud! And yeah, you could just walk around enemies, but then again, that doesn't work very well when you're being blocked by 50 infested swinging uselessly at you, now does it? Another question: have you ever heard of no-clip? A lot of poeple know, but I'm just making sure that you do, considering that you think it would be "complicated" and all to implement.

 

I agree that being in the Rift should grant passive buffs to the players, and I didn't mention that. Point.

 

My idea for a Rift Surge would violently eject enemies from the Void whilst granting Allies affected by the surge buffs that they take into real-space. I don't see how this is a nerf, considering that Rift Surge as it is only grants a small damage buff while in the Void.

 

Cataclysm as it is now acts like a rapidly-shrinking Snow Globe. It is a physical presense that allows for enemies and allies to pass through with ease; that does not allow for battlefield control. All the enemies have to do is walk right in and your advantage is nullified. So, instead of making Cataclysm a physical presense (as a bubble), I suggested that it be an instantaneous affect that mass-banishes whatever is inside of that AOE, allies included; they cannot walk out of it, and nobody can walk inside of it (because it doesn't exist anymore; the effect was instantaneous). This will allow for Limbo to essentially divide an enemy force in half, giving the team much-needed breathing room.

 

In regards to rule 6... "your 6th rule is an issue many have addressed already in a more thoughtful way." Now I feel like you're just insulting me. I copied that idea because not including that would get somebody to point it out and call me an idiot and... argh!

 

Rule 7... again, Limbo is about battlefield control. That gives him massive advantages, so he has to have an explainable reason for an energy drain cost. I already explained that allowing for enemies to PERMANENTLY reside in the Void (because you banished them) is pretty overpowered, so giving an energy drain would be reasonable. Just being in the Void by yourself would still grant you energy, or did you not read that part? If you're on the real-plane, and have Energy Siphon equiped, you'd still benefit from that. If you're in the Void, Energy Siphon would not work because you're already getting energy from the Void itself; unless it stacks... I don't know about that.

 

With several Limbo's on a squad, it would either result in them each maintaining their own dimensions or they'd all share one (called the Void). This was more wishful thinking on my part, and I don't think it would be too complicated considering the colored "smoke" idea.

 

I feel like I'm being bashed for no reason here. Plenty of people have posted their own ideas on this thread, yet I'm chosen to get attacked for no reason. At least you explained your reasoning, however convoluted it may be.

 

 

Off the top of my head, Valkyr can do that as well.

 

Edit: I also suggested an increase in Limbo's energy pool, did I not? :P

 

Edit: I don't think I explained it well enough, even though its in the text: Limbo will still gain energy if he's in the Void by himself. Putting anyone else in the Void will drain energy. If he's in the Void while others are as well, he won't lose energy. If he's in real-space while others are in the Void, he'll lose energy. I feel like I have to say it again because you'll ignore what I wrote down and call me an idiot again (implying it, of course).

well you asked for my opinion as a matter of fact

Furthermore you can banish enemies for up to a minute and that is MORE than enough time to deal with all immediate threats

There does not need to be a permanent banish effect and the energy drain will decrease his energy pool extremly fast if you dont attend to your enemies stuck in the void (Btw the drain every second is 2 energy since you said void effect and banish effect nullify each other, even more so since energy siphon would be deactivated)

I didnt mean that being able to walk through enemies is hard to accomplish i just said it wastes time(however if you think that its a worthwhile investion thats entirely up to you. I rather prefer them to work on other things)  you can easily escape 50 infested if you use space bar (yes i tried it)

 

Now the utility of letting people in and out of the bubble is so that allies can snipe incoming enemies, without having to worry about bullets, from further away enemies and that allies and yourself can go out and snipe someone outside  and then get back in and regain shields and energy.

 

Now I apologize if you feel offended by me saying that many have adressed your rule #6 in a more thoughfull way because it is a fact that they have

 

Now about rule nr.7 you should really read your post again since you did say that energy siphon is out of effect when you have banished allies/enemies in the void permanently

(which is not necessary due to being removed from battle for 60s(hell even 30s) is more than enough to get rid of other threats)

Furthermore if not everyone has energy siphon equipped, since you want to go for high level enemies, you will still lose energy very quickly and therefore you have to go to the void removing yourself from battle also permanently, until you have dealt with enemies in the void which are high lvl (130+) and can easily one-shot you once your in the rift. Now you can still put them back into the reality with your rift-surge, (basically thats your un-banish button for everyone) but then again you can do that too with your normal banish button.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Seyenas

[Temmron]

 Energy Siphon will not work for Limbo's currently banishing either themselves or others. If a Limbo is doing nothing, however, Energy Siphon will work.

 

 

 

[MECHANICAL_GURU]

~~ removed original post for childish behavior ~~

 

*ahem* well, anyways, Limbo is designed to allow for unprecedented CC abilities, while also allowing for a great deal of precision.

 

Banish (skill 1) is supposed to be precise, thus the single target effect.

Rift Walk is supposed to allow for you to access the Rift and deal with whatever enemies your brought into the Rift

     - Rift "gate" for lack of a better word, would allow for teammates to access the Rift as well by their choice without you having to target them individually for a banish (if would also take less time).

Rift Surge synergizes with Cataclysm and Banish because it takes whatever enemies that are in the Void and violently ejects them from it, basically saving you the time of having to eliminate them from the Rift.

Cataclysm is just a mass-banish.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

The energy drain from sending any number of targets to the Rift is 1 energy per second, allowing for Limbo to still recover energy while Rift Walking, albeit at a much slower rate. The trade-off is allowing for Limbo to keep targets in the Rift for as long as he likes, so long as he has the energy to do it. An unmodded Limbo can keep an uncountable number of enemies in the Rift for 150 seconds without the need for an energy pickup (casting costs are not factored in, this is just statistics).

 

The energy drain is justified because sending targets to the Rift plane is Limbo's only skill, thus any use of his abilities (except for 2 and 3) will cause a 1 energy per second energy drain.

--------------------------------------------------------

 

A better suggestion for Cataclysm that I've seen is having Cataclysm work like a ticking time-bomb, where enemies who walk in get trapped (can't walk back out) in its diminishing circle, eventually exploding everything inside of it. The more enemies trapped inside scales for how much damage it does when it's ready to explode; I like this a lot better than a simple mass-banish :D

Edited November 1, 2014 by MECHANICAL_GURU

[Lynxh]

I'm just gonna keep reiterating that banish shouldn't become AoE for prior mentioned reasons. Yes, it bugs me greatly.