Need A Dev Comment On This If Possible. Looks Like A Bug Or An Oversight.

[Renan.Ruivo]

I've been reading people saying that Sundering Strike (AP mod for melee weapons) will also increase damage on weapons that already ignore full armor, such as daggers, amphis, dual ether and all the others.

 

Honestly, i haven't tried with and without (mostly because.. well.. i.. um.... don't have the mod). But there are people saying that it's useless to waste energy using Sundering Strike on Armor Ignoring weapons.

 

The Wiki Page states that "Weapons ignoring armour seem to still get bonus damage from this mod", but we all know that the wiki page is not a 100% accurate source of information.

 

 

Can any developer comment on this, please?

 

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: Thanks to some posters for this tidbit. This isn't exclusive to melee weapons, it also affects ranged weapons but since there's only one armor ignoring ranged weapon, i also didn't noticed it since i never applied Piercing Strike on my Paris.

 

With the melee weapons it has been happening since U5 (when i joined) and i believed it was "fixed" with the Mod 2.0 system.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo

[Lactamid]

I have heared this to, that it works as a elemental mod with + damage.

[HeartlessFinale]

Weapons that ignore armor (daggers, etc) simply don't have damage taken off, armor penetration is considered a bonus damage source like the elemental mods that procs if any enemy has armor

[AndryB94]

Consider AP as an elemental damage type.

Note: It does extra damage vs grineer armour, corpus armour (I THINK) and it enables you to do massive damage to the corpus crewmen's heads.

[Nuko_Miko]

I do have dual ethers and I do have AP mod. I will test it out now and reply later :D

[CreatorUnreal]

From what I've tested, Armor Piercing damage is elemental damage. This can easily be tested with the Paris (or any other armor ignoring weapon).

 

Armor ignoring simply isn't reduced by any sort of modifiers. If it was true armor piercing you'd be getting several thousand damage with a headshot on an unmodded Paris/Boltor/Bolto.

[LazyTemplar]

The wiki page to look at to see how AP mod damage actually works is here.  http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Enemies

 

Click on specific enemy unit links from that page to see the damage multipliers that each type of elemental damage does against specific enemy types and body parts.  

 

Of course it would be better if the devs just released damage mechanics and such directly (such as weapon crit chance) because it's hard to know if all wikia numbers are accurate, but this is the best source I have found so far.  

[Kotoso]

"armor ignoring" is a bad name that leads to a lot of confusion. Think of it as true damage. What the number is, after + damage mods, is the amount of damage it will do. It will not be reduced. Armor piercing mods, as others have said, adds a new damage number, just like the other elements will show extra numbers when you hit something.

[Namacyst]

AP is still the best additional damage mod you can get on ANY weapon.

[Kotoso]

AP is still the best additional damage mod you can get on ANY weapon.

It is extremely inefficient on pistols.

[AndryB94]

It is extremely inefficient on pistols.

I got +20% armour piercing (rank 3) on my Lex and I deal close to double damage on Grineer. It also allows me to deal huge damage to Corpus boxheads. I wouldn't call that inefficient, considering it only takes 5 mod slots.

[AndryB94]

AP is still the best additional damage mod you can get on ANY weapon.

It is not as efficent against the Infested, where you'll likely want Fire and/or Frost.

[krisp]

It is extremely inefficient on pistols.

And costs 2 base drain. Still pretty good.

 

 

PSA: AP is NOT the same as armor ignore. I repeat, AP IS NOT THE SAME AS armor ignore. Some weapons ignore armor and AP has nothing to do with that. It just adds damage on top of the damage you're already doing.

 

 

It is not as efficent against the Infested, where you'll likely want Fire and/or Frost.

 

 

 

Ancients will be your biggest problems. AP is hella good vs ancients.

Edited April 22, 2013 by krisp

[Renan.Ruivo]

krisp, on 22 Apr 2013 - 4:54 PM, said:

PSA: AP is NOT the same as armor ignore. I repeat, AP IS NOT THE SAME AS armor ignore.

Ancients will be your biggest problems. AP is hella good vs ancients.

Although others said the same this should be made clear.

That said, I'm refering exactly to the AP mods on melee weapons, which are called "Sundering Strike". I had no idea that the percentage on AP mods worked as they work on elemental mods. If that's the case, then in my opinion it's a bug or an oversight and needs to be fixed for balance's sake.

If a weapon already ignores 100% armor, adding armor piercing mods to it shouldn't increase damage, There's no logic in this.

Armor protects the body, therefore it should negate some of the damage being applied to the body. If the damage is ignoring the armor, the amount of damage applied should be base damage + whatever damage enhancing mods are applied (Serration, Hornet Strike, Pressure Point, Elemental). If it has an AP mod, it should do the math and apply the damage taking into account the amount of Armor Piercing that the weapon has.

The fact that AP mods on armor ignoring weapons deal increased damage against armored targets and don't do jack against unarmored targets (Non-ancient/boss Infected), to me, is proof that this is a bug. Probably the game system turns the "Armor Value" on armored targets into a negative value, meaning that their armor is turning into the exact oposite of what it was supposed to do. Instead of protecting, is adding to the damage being dealt by the player.

[Kotoso]

Shouldn't it just be explained better, possibly with a name change, maybe with an expanded in game tutorial or lexicon? It seems better to explain the term, rather than make everyone that was wrong in their understanding correct, and making people who understood it relearn a new system.

[VexedRelic]

The way it problably works is it adds an unresistable modifier to your base damage. So if you do 100dmg against a 50% resistant monster it deals 50dmg due to reduction and then adds the armor piercing modifier ontop of it. So having 50% AP against a 50% resistance negates the damage reduction, and if it's less or no reduction you deal bonus damage, which would be why some weapons always get a bonus in damage since they pass through the armor modifier.

[TheTenthDoc]

I got +20% armour piercing (rank 3) on my Lex and I deal close to double damage on Grineer. It also allows me to deal huge damage to Corpus boxheads. I wouldn't call that inefficient, considering it only takes 5 mod slots.

 

You get pretty much the same effect with the rank 0 armor piercing for 2 mod points, at least on the corpus (since they get a 1000% multiplier to the armor piercing elemental damage). Grineer drop in a Lex headshot anyway.

[Renan.Ruivo]

AP mods versus everyone is why i love the Latron. Mine two/three shots normal mobs up to level 35 if i hit the body, and just one shots if i hit the weakspot. Plus it's a rifle, so i never run out of ammo because of 600+ ammo pool. Twin Vipers make the job as the bullet hoses.

 

Latron is only useless against bosses and their damn regenerating shields, except the infected bosses that have no shields. Then it's just decoy and/or invisibility + weakspot shots.

[Korbaan]

So much misinformation in this thread.  Armor Piercing damage works simply like an additional elemental damage mod, and does damage separately from the base normal damage.  Like the other elemental damage types, enemies take additional or reduced damage from it.  Armor Piercing damage is very good because apparently the only enemies that take reduced damage from it are the normal Infested.  Ancients take full damage.

 

"Armor ignoring" is not a true form of damage, it's probably better to think of it as bolt damage instead.  Take the Bolto for example.  If you shoot a Corpus boxhead with no mods, it does 0 damage.  

 

Damage mechanics work like this: bullet damage does 50% on Grineer bodies, 100% on Grineer heads, bolt damage does 100% on Grineer bodies, 200% on Grineer heads.  There's no hidden armor value, just locational modifiers that's further differentiated based on the type of weapon you use.

[TheRedLich]

I think a simple fix to this "issue" some people are having would be to rename "Armor Piercing" damage to just "Piercing" damage. That way it'd probably be understood as a separate damage type and not "armor-ignoring" damage.

[Bakim0n0]

What the... why do you need a dev to clear up a rumor that can be cleared up with 30 seconds of in game testing?

If you have serious doubts about what a mod does go into a low level mission without any mods on it, take note of damage and performance, abandon, put the mod you have questions about in and do it again.

Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp these days? The reason the Wiki tends to be a bit hit and miss is because of all the hidden information the devs don't include that has changed... repeatedly. Often people notice things not mentioned on the wiki or not mentioned in regards to that scenerio (i.e. blunt and dagger weapons having a damage penalty to infested) and feel there is an information gap or they are unaware of certian mechanics (i.e. a certian weapon doing triple damage to corpus on a slide attack) and make special note of it despite it being standard (i.e. slide attacks always doing triple damage).

Crit rate and maybe penetration are the two important factors that are *very* difficult to accuratly asses right now, but all the other mods are farily easy to test; just remember to determine across the board functionality you'll need to test against all three factions at similar levels.

[TheSuperTaco]

i love sundering strike mod, its rare, it does high damage and it doesnt need as much mod space, i use it on all melee, its really good

[Renan.Ruivo]

Korbaan, on 22 Apr 2013 - 7:20 PM, said:

So much misinformation in this thread. Armor Piercing damage works simply like an additional elemental damage mod, and does damage separately from the base normal damage.

If there's misinformation or not, i'm not aware because i don't have the actual facts as stated by the devs themselves, which is why i asked for their comment on this =)

As far as i can tell, "Armor Piercing" mods should be renamed to another thing, because like you said there's no armor stats for the different enemies (only for the frames themselves), so they can't use those values as a base value to calculate how much damage the armor piercing mods.

AP mods should have no effect on weapons that already ignore armor. That makes zero sense.

[Renan.Ruivo]

What the... why do you need a dev to clear up a rumor that can be cleared up with 30 seconds of in game testing?

 

Because i want them to comment if it's intended or not. I didn't asked them to clear anything, i already know that AP mods stack with armor ignoring weapons and boost damage.

 

More specifically, i want them to say if it's working as intended or if it's a bug/exploit. Because, like i said, AP mods affecting weapons that already have 100% armor ignore makes zero sense.

 

This didn't happened during closed beta, which is what makes me believe this is a bug on the Mod 2.0 system. If you fitted AP mods on daggers, people would laugh in your face.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo

[DataShade]

I think a simple fix to thi-

 

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