Need A Dev Comment On This If Possible. Looks Like A Bug Or An Oversight.

[Nokturnal]

Because i want them to comment if it's intended or not. I didn't asked them to clear anything, i already know that AP mods stack with armor ignoring weapons and boost damage.

 

More specifically, i want them to say if it's working as intended or if it's a bug/exploit. Because, like i said, AP mods affecting weapons that already have 100% armor ignore makes zero sense.

 

This didn't happened during closed beta, which is what makes me believe this is a bug on the Mod 2.0 system. If you fitted AP mods on daggers, people would laugh in your face.

 

I doubt it's a bug/exploit, it works just like every other elemental damage mod. It adds it's own value which is reduced by resistances of enemy.

 

The reason armor piercing mods were unnecessary on armor ignoring weapons before Update 7 was because you could stack any damage mod you wanted and they all had the same values (except a good fire one was hard to find) So there was no need to boost the armor pen of a weapon that already ignored armor.

 

And if you want a dev response, ask support aka e-mail them, you'll get an answer faster than trying to get them to respond to things on the forums.

[Renan.Ruivo]

I doubt it's a bug/exploit, it works just like every other elemental damage mod. It adds it's own value which is reduced by resistances of enemy.

 

The reason armor piercing mods were unnecessary on armor ignoring weapons before Update 7 was because you could stack any damage mod you wanted and they all had the same values (except a good fire one was hard to find) So there was no need to boost the armor pen of a weapon that already ignored armor.

 

And if you want a dev response, ask support aka e-mail them, you'll get an answer faster than trying to get them to respond to things on the forums.

 

Not to sound entitled, cruel or anything that's self-embarassing, but if i wanted direct contact with a dev i'd just hop into the Design Council chat in-game and see who's on shift at the time (steve generally is there during updates).

 

I brought up the question to the forum so that it's here in a public fashion. Whatever the answer is, everyone will see. Otherwise i'll just be another guy who'll say that "Dev X said that this is the way it works".

[krisp]

That said, I'm refering exactly to the AP mods on melee weapons, which are called "Sundering Strike". I had no idea that the percentage on AP mods worked as they work on elemental mods. If that's the case, then in my opinion it's a bug or an oversight and needs to be fixed for balance's sake.

If a weapon already ignores 100% armor, adding armor piercing mods to it shouldn't increase damage, There's no logic in this.

 

Why should AP on melee weapons work differently than ranged.

And welcome to game design, where not everything is logical.

[Renan.Ruivo]

Why should AP on melee weapons work differently than ranged.

And welcome to game design, where not everything is logical.

 

I wasn't aware that the "bug" or "oversight" affected ranged weapons as well.

 

And welcome to beta testing, where we point out what's ilogical and force them to fix while threatening to kick a thousand cats and say that Digital Extremes paid us to do it =)

[Dr.KennethNoiswater]

I've got a question in regards to the 1,000% damage to corpus crewmen for shots to the facebox you guys keep mentioning.

 

Why does my damage feedback consistantly show 280 when I shoot a crewman in the box?

 

My lex deals 70 base damage. I have 100% bonus damage(Hornet Strike) which brings it to 140 damage per shot and 10% (No Return) bonus damage for armor piercing which would add an additional 14 damage.

 

If only the damage from the armor piercing mod gets through as damage then I should be doing be doing 1000% of 14 which would be dissapointing 140. However if all of the damage is supposed to apply simply because the AP mod is equipped then I would think I should be doing a minimum of 700 (assuming all damage bonus aspects of my mods are broken apart from No Returns ability to pierce the crewman box) and a max somewhere in the neighborhood 1540 [140(1000%)+14(1000%)]? That is if I applied those bonuses correctly...  My crits on the same crewmen are 420 which seems to me is 300% of my modified 140 damage compliments of Hornet Strike but sans the AP 10% if that helps at all.

 

I was bothered by this online and in private games so I checked it in a solo game as well. If it is a UI/Damage feedback bug then I would think that some, if not all of you would experience it as well. Either way a helpful explaination or sharing in my confusion would be appreciated.

 

P.s. Even if I did that bass ackwards and the damage for No Return is a % of base damage it should still be something besides 280 at 1000% unless I am mistaken.

 

EDIT:

 

A friend of mine just told me it was actually 2000% for a crewman headshot with AP, which would double the number I had previously for No Return and bring it up to a nice 280 damage possibly answering my original question, although it may not address the criticals because I'm not entirely sure about how the numbers for that work.

 

New Question: Is it correct then that only the AP damage wlill be applied to a corpus crewman headshot? Also, does this same logic apply to any other "armored" enemies in the game to a degree based on their damage reduction bonus (assuming then that crewmen heads recieve 100% reduction from non AP damage)?

Edited April 24, 2013 by Dr.KennethNoiswater

[NegimaSonic]

I've got a question in regards to the 1,000% damage to corpus crewmen for shots to the facebox you guys keep mentioning.

 

P.s. Even if I did that bass ackwards and the damage for No Return is a % of base damage it should still be something besides 280 at 1000% unless I am mistaken.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5812-damage-shields-mods-enemies-and-you/

This thread says it is 2000%.

So appears to match what you have. 140 base. 10% AP (14). 14 * 20 = 280.

I'm too lazy to be bothered to check into how critical applies. I don't count on those.

[Renan.Ruivo]

I wasn't aware that the "bug" or "oversight" affected ranged weapons as well.

 

And welcome to beta testing, where we point out what's ilogical and force them to fix while threatening to kick a thousand cats and say that Digital Extremes paid us to do it =)

 

See how many dislikes i got just for threatening to kick cats on the internets? Imagine if i put the blame of this on DE.

[Xrylene]

There's no bug or exploit involved, it's the "physical" elemental effect.

[krisp]

See how many dislikes i got just for threatening to kick cats on the internets? Imagine if i put the blame of this on DE.

I'm guessing the (whopping) 4 people disagreed with your idea that the current implementation of AP is either a "bug" or "oversight", and did not in fact care about your silly cat joke.

[SymphNo9]

There's no bug or exploit involved, it's the "physical" elemental effect.

 

I would vote for that rename, although even that the semantic is not logical.

[Wabbie]

I highly doubt a DE will answer this question. Questions like these always end up in many game's forums and guess what? They never get answered by the Developer. (the only time they do is if its a bug and its not working as intentional)

Think about it, the question you asked have strike many people's curiosity and have caused this many people to answer it and gave others a desire to either prove it correct or false claim.

Only thing i can say is prove it yourself, dont be lazy to figure out the answer when it can easily be done, just requires a lot of time.

You're literally asking as if you are in class taking an exam and then decide to ask the professor to "double check" to see if the answer is correct.

 

1st of it, spoiler alert eh?

2nd holy cow, if a developer answered this question, oh boy will there be a lot of talk about the AP mod. Lolol.

 

OT: Pretty sure AP fits as a damage increase, its just another type of damage.

Forgive me if im wrong, but something like, if the target doesnt need extra damage to kill, then it will not be calculated into it. *shrugs* forgot where i read somebody did a little test for it.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Wabbie

[Renan.Ruivo]

Well, it happens this way. If you use a normal weapon against an armored target, your base damage will be deducted based on his armor. If you put an AP mod on said weapon, your damage will increase, but never reach 100% of the base damage (AP mods only go to 90% afaik).

 

If you use a weapon that ignores armor, it will do full base damage against it's target, since it ignores the armor. If you apply AP mods to it, it'll cause base damange plus the percentage of AP the mod gives, so it'll cause even more damage.

 

 

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but that logic seems flawled to me. Feel free to discuss my opinion on this.

 

 

I'm not asking if this happens. I know it does. What i'm asking for is a DEV comment on this. I could have created a bug report, i could have asked around on the DC chat. But i wanted to involve the whole community on the discussion.

 

 

I'm guessing the (whopping) 4 people disagreed with your idea that the current implementation of AP is either a "bug" or "oversight", and did not in fact care about your silly cat joke.

 

 

Well that we'll never know. They didn't voiced their opinion.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo

[krisp]

Well that we'll never know. They didn't voiced their opinion.

So what if they didn't? Doesn't make it okay to assume they did it out of some mentally challenged irrational hatred.

 

Also you should probably read this huge stickied thread that tells you everything you need to know about AP:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5812-damage-shields-mods-enemies-and-you/

 

There's a caveat though: you have to *understand* what you're reading.

Edited April 24, 2013 by krisp

[Renan.Ruivo]

Also you should probably read this huge stickied thread that tells you everything you need to know about AP:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5812-damage-shields-mods-enemies-and-you/

 

There's a caveat though: you have to *understand* what you're reading.

 

There's another caveat. This hasn't been updated since january, well before the 2.0 version of mods.

 

 

I don't know if you're just very bitter or just doesn't like me, but i'd appreciate if you could tune down the bitterness man.

[krisp]

There's another caveat. This hasn't been updated since january, well before the 2.0 version of mods.

 

 

I don't know if you're just very bitter or just doesn't like me, but i'd appreciate if you could tune down the bitterness man.

Alright, sorry, but your entire thread doesn't help. I tested elemental damage post-7.0 back when I was making sure AP stacked with +damage mods. You can do it too. Nothing has changed or there would've at least been some patch notes announcing it (hopefully), and I have empirical evidence to back that up.

 

So I guess that's your answer.

[Renan.Ruivo]

That's the thing then. I probably didn't make myself very clear on the OP, so i'll re-read it and edit it or the title accordingly. Like i said i few times here already, i already know that this happens, and that it has been happening since U5. I even have some idea on why it happens so this is why i said it might be an oversight and not a bug. I just wanted a DEV to chime in him or herself and say something about it (it's probably a thing i bring from EVE-O forums, where if you summon them, then eventually a wild DEV appear,) instead of contacting someone privately and then trying to spread hearsay. It's just not in my nature to do this.

 

Now, it's obvioulsy controversial. Even in open beta we are expected to report bugs. It's easy to report an annoying bug, or even a harmless bug. But seldom will people report a bug that might be perceived as "helpfull".

 

 

My issue with it is that the mod is called "Armor Piercing", so by it's name it should only and simply do what it says. Pierce armors, allowing the weapon to almost (it goes to 90%) do the full damage on armored targets. But (and it's a huge but), Armor Ignoring weapons bypass armor completely. If an Armor Piercing mod is applied to it, then it'll deal extra damage.

 

Why? Why does a mod that was designed to interact and negate armors and nothing else would cause extra damage? I can't understand this, and neither can several other people. We can debate about it, but it'll be only conjecture since we are not behind the gears.

 

 

So if it's me being just stupid and asking a stupid question, and no pink-shorted dev comments on this than i'll probably just go on being stupid. However if it's really an oversight then it's me helping the game make more sense (and being stupid as well. Me, not the game.). Because with a weapon that already ignores armor, applying a mod that helps ignore armor shouldn't cause extra damage imo. It should either do nothing, or have a change in it's description so that it makes sense when applied to armor ignoring weapons. (I prefer the latter, obvioulsy)

[TheTenthDoc]

I think you're misreading the flavor of the armor piercing mod. It's not "helping you ignore armor", it's flavor has always been adding additional damage that ignores armor. Imagine a bomb. This bomb is filled entirely with flechettes that pierce armor. If I add more fletchettes to the bomb (like the mod does), these new fletchettes will do additional damage.

 

This makes just as much sense as magical fire bullets anyway.

[CaligoIllioneus]

Yes, this doesn't seem to be a bug at all. It's like another element that deals more damage to armored targets.  It's extra armor piercing damage, not something that makes a certain % of your damage go through armor.

[Renan.Ruivo]

Well, i talked with Steve on the Livestream. So if anyone was there he said that it sounded "funky" and that he'd check it out =). That's the thing though, and Steve summed it up pretty neatly.

 

This sounds funky.

 

 

Yes, this doesn't seem to be a bug at all. It's like another element that deals more damage to armored targets.  It's extra armor piercing damage, not something that makes a certain % of your damage go through armor.

 

 

Well, trying to keep fiction with fiction.. Think on the Lightsaber. It does the same amount of damage wether the stormtrooper is armored or not =)

Edited April 24, 2013 by Renan.Ruivo