Limbo: New Player Perspective (Please Don't Change Him)

[MedioMorde]

Hello Warframe Community! I'm new to this game, and beyond completing the first couple missions with Excalibur I decided I was a bit bored, but with all the different Warframes available I decided to take a look around before I left this game.

 

Enter Limbo. I was pleased that there was a character (Warframe) available that did not sound like all the others. I groaned at having to pay real money to try him out without having to grind with a playstyle that I didn't really like. So I forked over the cash and unlocked him. I Have not really played any other warframes and TBH I can't imagine that they are not exactly what I expect them to be. Just not my thing really, sometimes it can be fun to just be death on two feet, but more often than not I get bored with that pretty quickly and prefer my gameplay to be a little more of a puzzle. I really am glad that they added a character like Limbo to expand the way the game can be played.

 

I really enjoy playing this warframe and had no idea he had so much negative feedback until I started looking him up on the interwebs. As such, I feel I should put in my two cents before the warframe I have grown to love becomes just like all the others.

 

How I play him:

 

---Solo---

So far I have not had any issues playing him solo. His way of doing things seems to be a bit slower than the rest, due to not having super-mega-slash-explosion-omg-i-cleared-this-room-with-one-move skill. I am ok with this though because of the tactical trade-off. In short he has options. 

 

To start I play him mostly ranged, as I feel that his kit compliments this really well, having the ability to position as he sees fit.

 

When faced with your average riff raff, I just shoot them down. No need to use any abilities at all. I mean really, what's the point of having an ability for this, it's a waste when you have huge swords and big lasers at your disposal. So I'm glad that Limbo's kit doesn't cater to this.

 

When faced with some riff raff and a couple hard baddies. Limbo starts to shine. Here I do the regular rick rolling of baby baddies while banishing the big-uns. This allows me to dispatch the spawn as it were a regular patch of baddies without any issues. Worrying about the big-uns last, as they will spend most of their time crying in the void while I kill all their friends. 

 

When faced with overwhelming odds. Yes! I love limbo for this. Here I will usually enter the void using riftwalk and position myself as expertly as I can while effectively delaying the fight. Once I have a good enough position I will do the opposite of what I did before. Instead of dealing with the baby baddies first, I pull the big-uns into the void and deal with them first. With Rift Surge, this allows me to take them down one by one with ease while all their baby baddy friends cry helplessly on the other side of the glass (so to speak) as their leaders fall. Once the big threats are gone it gets pretty easy, but of course there are more options in dealing with the littles. I will call one of these methods "The Vortex of Death," I'll explain what this is later.

 

In boss fights I mostly use riftwalk in order to escape damage and heal up my shields. Essentially I save most of my energy for this as I know this will be a prolonged battle and will need that sustain. Which also gives me time to gain better positioning before I come out of the void to damage him again.

 

--Coop--

 

Now I have some friends who play this game, and they like mostly up close and personal warframes. One has been using mostly Ash while the other is currently enjoying Valkyr. So what I do in these fights is the famed "Vortex of Death!"

 

The thing about Limbo is that you have to use his abilities in reverse order for max damage in teamfights. His banish becomes mostly utility as it was a main skill in solo play this seems rather odd, but it's actually pretty awesome. To create the "Vortex of Death" you start by seeing where your melee friends are going. Once they have engaged in a frenzy where there is just a huge ball of enemies, you start by casting Cataclysm from a safe distance away right smack dab in the middle of the soon to be arena. Now this helps your friends because they only have to worry about what is immediately around them since all the guys at range won't be able to damage anything inside your void ball. Right after casting cataclysm you cast Rift Surge, which helps your friends take down those pesky hard to kill baddies. Then you Rift Walk and start pelting all those sweet bullets into your cataclysm. This means you can damage things inside your cataclysm without you yourself being in it! All in all it clears pockets of enemies really well and the whole time making you and your team completely invulnerable against any damage you aren't currently dealing with. It is pretty OP.

So again, to cast the "Vortex of Death" you just get safe and press 4, 3, 2. Done.

 

When things inside your Vortex of Death die quickly, this gives your friends a safe zone to recoup shields.

 

Limbo also has some great utility and support for the team. I have pretty  much become the dedicated rezzer because of his ability to revive friends while in the void with imputiny. Also If I see that one of my friends is having trouble (usually because he leroyed all on his own) I'll banish him so he can run back to us for safety. Sometimes I'll also banish a friendly upon revival so that he can catch his breath and reposition. Like I said, in solo play banish is a mainstay but in teamplay, banish is an EPIC utility/support skill. 

 

--Summary--

 

If any one of importance is reading this, please don't change Limbo. Some of the changes I have been reading about include combining his riftwalk/banish. Please don't, the ability to choose between putting yourself in the void or someone else is important to his playstyle theme. I feel you would be ruining what makes him special, if you really feel this needs to be done, then why not instead remove the riftwalk cast time and make it an instant cast such that it can even be cast on the move. This will allow people to still have options and others not waste any time casting between both spells.

**EDITED ADDITION** Or make riftwalk a toggle, no duration. I don't have a problem with not being able to pick things up when in rift, so this makes having to come back to the real world important, and as such forces more decision making! yay!

 

In general, leave him alone PLEASE!!!!

 

He is not a "Min/Maxers" warframe and I'm happy for that. He is a warframe that can enter into ANY engagement and come out on top with clever use of his skills. Whereas other warframes are more the "I got an OP build" way of doing things, I feel Limbo is a warframe that can go in with any build at all no matter how bad, and find a way to make it work. If you rework him, you'll most likely be making the typical min/maxers happy and they already have plenty to choose from. Leave him as is for the rest of the playerbase who enjoy playing something a little different. Thank you.

Edited October 29, 2014 by MedioMorde

[Shion963]

#NotAllFrames. Not everyone plays nukes as a matter of choice. It's just easier.

Try out Banshee, she's more of a gunman's frame. Her powers synergises well, and will reward good marksmanship.

EDIT: And if they do rework Limbo, I don't think that he'll suddenly be an AOE damage-dealer caster. Their reworks reinforces the frame, not totally redo.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Shion963

[MedioMorde]

#NotAllFrames. Not everyone plays nukes as a matter of choice. It's just easier.

Try out Banshee, she's more of a gunman's frame. Her powers synergises well, and will reward good marksmanship.

EDIT: And if they do rework Limbo, I don't think that he'll suddenly be an AOE damage-dealer caster. Their reworks reinforces the frame, not totally redo.

 

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, it's just that in other games I've played, changes (even subtle ones) will drastically take away from a certain characters play style due to some of the original thinking behind them having been forgotten. I don't want this to happen to another game.

[Temmron]

Hello Warframe Community! I'm new to this game, and beyond completing the first couple missions with Excalibur I decided I was a bit bored, but with all the different Warframes available I decided to take a look around before I left this game.

 

Enter Limbo. I was pleased that there was a character (Warframe) available that did not sound like all the others. I groaned at having to pay real money to try him out without having to grind with a playstyle that I didn't really like. So I forked over the cash and unlocked him. I Have not really played any other warframes and TBH I can't imagine that they are not exactly what I expect them to be. Just not my thing really, sometimes it can be fun to just be death on two feet, but more often than not I get bored with that pretty quickly and prefer my gameplay to be a little more of a puzzle. I really am glad that they added a character like Limbo to expand the way the game can be played.

 

I really enjoy playing this warframe and had no idea he had so much negative feedback until I started looking him up on the interwebs. As such, I feel I should put in my two cents before the warframe I have grown to love becomes just like all the others.

 

How I play him:

 

---Solo---

So far I have not had any issues playing him solo. His way of doing things seems to be a bit slower than the rest, due to not having super-mega-slash-explosion-omg-i-cleared-this-room-with-one-move skill. I am ok with this though because of the tactical trade-off. In short he has options. 

 

To start I play him mostly ranged, as I feel that his kit compliments this really well, having the ability to position as he sees fit.

 

When faced with your average riff raff, I just shoot them down. No need to use any abilities at all. I mean really, what's the point of having an ability for this, it's a waste when you have huge swords and big lasers at your disposal. So I'm glad that Limbo's kit doesn't cater to this.

 

When faced with some riff raff and a couple hard baddies. Limbo starts to shine. Here I do the regular rick rolling of baby baddies while banishing the big-uns. This allows me to dispatch the spawn as it were a regular patch of baddies without any issues. Worrying about the big-uns last, as they will spend most of their time crying in the void while I kill all their friends. 

 

When faced with overwhelming odds. Yes! I love limbo for this. Here I will usually enter the void using riftwalk and position myself as expertly as I can while effectively delaying the fight. Once I have a good enough position I will do the opposite of what I did before. Instead of dealing with the baby baddies first, I pull the big-uns into the void and deal with them first. With Rift Surge, this allows me to take them down one by one with ease while all their baby baddy friends cry helplessly on the other side of the glass (so to speak) as their leaders fall. Once the big threats are gone it gets pretty easy, but of course there are more options in dealing with the littles. I will call one of these methods "The Vortex of Death," I'll explain what this is later.

 

In boss fights I mostly use riftwalk in order to escape damage and heal up my shields. Essentially I save most of my energy for this as I know this will be a prolonged battle and will need that sustain. Which also gives me time to gain better positioning before I come out of the void to damage him again.

 

--Coop--

 

Now I have some friends who play this game, and they like mostly up close and personal warframes. One has been using mostly Ash while the other is currently enjoying Valkyr. So what I do in these fights is the famed "Vortex of Death!"

 

The thing about Limbo is that you have to use his abilities in reverse order for max damage in teamfights. His banish becomes mostly utility as it was a main skill in solo play this seems rather odd, but it's actually pretty awesome. To create the "Vortex of Death" you start by seeing where your melee friends are going. Once they have engaged in a frenzy where there is just a huge ball of enemies, you start by casting Cataclysm from a safe distance away right smack dab in the middle of the soon to be arena. Now this helps your friends because they only have to worry about what is immediately around them since all the guys at range won't be able to damage anything inside your void ball. Right after casting cataclysm you cast Rift Surge, which helps your friends take down those pesky hard to kill baddies. Then you Rift Walk and start pelting all those sweet bullets into your cataclysm. This means you can damage things inside your cataclysm without you yourself being in it! All in all it clears pockets of enemies really well and the whole time making you and your team completely invulnerable against any damage you aren't currently dealing with. It is pretty OP.

So again, to cast the "Vortex of Death" you just get safe and press 4, 3, 2. Done.

 

When things inside your Vortex of Death die quickly, this gives your friends a safe zone to recoup shields.

 

Limbo also has some great utility and support for the team. I have pretty  much become the dedicated rezzer because of his ability to revive friends while in the void with imputiny. Also If I see that one of my friends is having trouble (usually because he leroyed all on his own) I'll banish him so he can run back to us for safety. Sometimes I'll also banish a friendly upon revival so that he can catch his breath and reposition. Like I said, in solo play banish is a mainstay but in teamplay, banish is an EPIC utility/support skill. 

 

--Summary--

 

If any one of importance is reading this, please don't change Limbo. Some of the changes I have been reading about include combining his riftwalk/banish. Please don't, the ability to choose between putting yourself in the void or someone else is important to his playstyle theme. I feel you would be ruining what makes him special, if you really feel this needs to be done, then why not instead remove the riftwalk cast time and make it an instant cast such that it can even be cast on the move. This will allow people to still have options and others not waste any time casting between both spells.

 

In general, leave him alone PLEASE!!!!

 

He is not a "Min/Maxers" warframe and I'm happy for that. He is a warframe that can enter into ANY engagement and come out on top with clever use of his skills. Whereas other warframes are more the "I got an OP build" way of doing things, I feel Limbo is a warframe that can go in with any build at all no matter how bad, and find a way to make it work. If you rework him, you'll most likely be making the typical min/maxers happy and they already have plenty to choose from. Leave him as is for the rest of the playerbase who enjoy playing something a little different. Thank you.

click on my name and go to posts then look for general feedback on limbo and look at my posts on page 5 and page 7 I think there are some new options for you on how to play him more effectively

[Prany]

If uniting Banish and Rift Walk in single ability means: a)cast it on someone to banish/unbanish this specific someone and b)cast it without targeting anyone to banish/unbanish yourself, I'm against it. Single misclick will be ruinous to frame as squish as Limbo. Not to mention it will be cumbersome to those who have removed ability to cast from mouse for something else (quick melee in my case).

[Shion963]

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, it's just that in other games I've played, changes (even subtle ones) will drastically take away from a certain characters play style due to some of the original thinking behind them having been forgotten. I don't want this to happen to another game.

That is what change would bring. It's normal. Volt used to be able to nuke a whole tile, plus half of the adjecent ones during the beta. Ember used to be able to facetank enemies alongside a Rhino that stomps everything around it dead.

Granted, those frames were changed for their OP-ness. I can't say how they'll rework Limbo, if they do it at all. AFAIK most of the threads on Limbo are asking for small tweaks so that his powers become easier to use, rather than scrapping them. Things like cast animation taking too long, toggling, etc.

[Ronyn]

 

 sometimes it can be fun to just be death on two feet, but more often than not I get bored with that pretty quickly and prefer my gameplay to be a little more of a puzzle. I really am glad that they added a character like Limbo to expand the way the game can be played.

Not all other frames are "death on two feet". There is more variety to the other frames than you yet realize.

 

For the record-

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, it's just that in other games I've played, changes (even subtle ones) will drastically take away from a certain characters play style due to some of the original thinking behind them having been forgotten. I don't want this to happen to another game.

The dev description said that Limbo is supposed to be about doing damage.

Not in a "hit one button to kill everything" kind of way but he was said to be a damage dealer.

 

That said I dig Limbos unique playstyle in general too..however. 

Limbo also has some great utility and support for the team. I have pretty  much become the dedicated rezzer because of his ability to revive friends while in the void with imputiny. Also If I see that one of my friends is having trouble (usually because he leroyed all on his own) I'll banish him so he can run back to us for safety. Sometimes I'll also banish a friendly upon revival so that he can catch his breath and reposition. Like I said, in solo play banish is a mainstay but in teamplay, banish is an EPIC utility/support skill. 

Having a Limbo cast Banish on you is great..when it fits what you're trying to do.

Unfortunately there are times when a Limbo puts it in on you and it works against what you're trying to do.

Its like-Were you about to kill those enemies over there? Nope-you've been banished so now you cant hurt them.

The primary problem here is that the non limbo player cannot chose to un-banish themselves.

Which puts too much control over other player in the hands of whoever is playing Limbo.

This needs work.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Ronyn

[MedioMorde]

 

 

Not all other frames are "death on two feet". There is more variety to the other frames than you yet realize.

 

For the record-

The dev description said that Limbo is supposed to be about doing damage.

Not in a "hit one button to kill everything" kind of way but he was said to be a damage dealer.

 

That said I dig Limbos unique playstyle in general too..however. 

Having a Limbo cast Banish on you is great..when it fits what you're trying to do.

Unfortunately there are times when a Limbo puts it in on you and it works against what you're trying to do.

Its like-Were you about to kill those enemies over there? Nope-you've been banished so now you cant hurt them.

The primary problem here is that the non limbo player cannot chose to un-banish themselves.

Which puts too much control over other player in the hands of whoever is playing Limbo.

This needs work.

 

 

1. This may be true, Limbo to me still stands out above the rest. I think of how he can be the single player character of an entirely different game all on his own. I'm sure you could find a way to do so for all the warframes, but his mechanics FROM THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN seem far different than the others.

 

2. Well I don't have much to compare it to, but he seems like a pretty strong damage dealer to me. The catch is, it wasn't how you expected I guess.

 

3. This seems pretty silly to me. I'm not talking about the trolls, I'm talking about changing a Warframe due to the trolls. Just add a vote kick feature. Squad votes on kicking someone. Here is an EVEN BETTER solution Ronyn, make friends. Squad with friends like I do, haven't seen any trolls yet. Just like every other game in the world, trolls will find a way no matter what. Why would you cater to them? You know in the end it's only a game and you can choose to leave a match if you're not enjoying it. I have qeued up for pub matches and still haven't seen a troll. Soooo I don't think it's that big of a problem if 1 out of 100 games I find a guy that is being a troll. Really just leave the match, party with friends, and if you're still getting trolled then get new friends lol. If it's still that big of a problem for "forever alone" players then maybe they can make banish blockable, like a parry.

Edited October 29, 2014 by MedioMorde

[MedioMorde]

click on my name and go to posts then look for general feedback on limbo and look at my posts on page 5 and page 7 I think there are some new options for you on how to play him more effectively

Will do thanx! FYI I didn't share all my secrets btw, just some of the more common/obvious ones.

Edited October 29, 2014 by MedioMorde

[Ronyn]

1. This may be true, Limbo to me still stands out above the rest. I think of how he can be the single player character of an entirely different game all on his own. I'm sure you could find a way to do so for all the warframes, but his mechanics FROM THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN seem far different than the others.

The beauty of it all is that the various warframes can appeal to each of us in different ways to different degrees.

but overall yes: I agree that Limbo is certainly a unique frame. 

 

2. Well I don't have much to compare it to, but he seems like a pretty strong damage dealer to me. The catch is, it wasn't how you expected I guess.

Basically I am saying that Limbo is quite capable of being death on two feet in his own way.

I think it's awesome how he does it. 

 

3. This seems pretty silly to me. I'm not talking about the trolls, I'm talking about changing a Warframe due to the trolls. Just add a vote kick feature. Squad votes on kicking someone. Here is an EVEN BETTER solution Ronyn, make friends. Squad with friends like I do, haven't seen any trolls yet. Just like every other game in the world, trolls will find a way no matter what. Why would you cater to them? You know in the end it's only a game and you can choose to leave a match if you're not enjoying it. I have qeued up for pub matches and still haven't seen a troll. Soooo I don't think it's that big of a problem if 1 out of 100 games I find a guy that is being a troll. Really just leave the match, party with friends, and if you're still getting trolled then get new friends lol.

You seem to misunderstand entirely. I'm not talking about troll issues or the need for squading with friends. 

 

Certainly the more coordinated the efforts of the team the less of an issue this is.

But the potential for such specific amounts of coordination to go wrong even among friends is pretty high.

And from a statistical perspective, there will be a large amount of the player base in pick up groups where communication is limited.

These are things designers take into account when building a class. That in mind....

In general game designers don't give player A the THAT much power to change player B's capability to interact with all enemies in the mission.

There are various reasons for that based primarily on the core need for player agency.

 

Let me phrase it this way-whether I am playing limbo or playing alongside one.

I believe that anyone not playing as limbo should be able to choose when not to be in the rift.

 

BTW-Are you against letting players have some way to pull themselves out of it? 

It's not even changing Limbo directly...it's only changing what the other players are able to do.

What would be the purpose to avoid such a choice?

Edited October 29, 2014 by Ronyn

[Azawarau]

Have to sayit

 

Any frame can be and will be min maxed

 

Frames that dont press 4 to blow things up tend to do better than frames that do overall

 

Limbos issue is his troll potential and ability to skip near all content with just one power on top of strange synergy

 

I have to try him with the new changes still

 

Hope hes better

[MedioMorde]

You seem to misunderstand entirely. I'm not talking about troll issues or the need for squading with friends. 

 

Certainly the more coordinated the efforts of the team the less of an issue this is.

But the potential for such specific amounts of coordination to go wrong even among friends is pretty high.

And from a statistical perspective, there will be a large amount of the player base in pick up groups where communication is limited.

These are things designers take into account when building a class. That in mind....

In general game designers don't give player A the THAT much power to change player B's capability to interact with all enemies in the mission.

There are various reasons for that based primarily on the core need for player agency.

 

Let me phrase it this way-whether I am playing limbo or playing alongside one.

I believe that anyone not playing as limbo should be able to choose when not to be in the rift.

 

BTW-Are you against letting players have some way to pull themselves out of it? 

It's not even changing Limbo directly...it's only changing what the other players are able to do.

What would be the purpose to avoid such a choice?

 

My apologies sir it seems I did indeed misunderstand you! So to begin yes! I am completely against another character having control of the void. After all this is kinda his thing. I feel that one of the biggest differences between good and bad limbos will in the end be their synergy with other players. It's one of his most important tools, but like you said can be frustrating. However! I did say another character having CONTROL of the void is the problem. In other words, if a character wants to have the option to go into the void, they must give that control to a limbo. If they do not like the idea of trusting their limbo, then perhaps a way to make you void immune, but in a way that the status of their void immunity cannot be changed in the middle of a match. Such that whatever you choose before the match, that cannot be changed midmatch. A good way to do this I think would be to have a mod, or bonus status to existing mods, that makes you void immune. In this way you can equip a mod that will keep a limbo from messing up your game, or making it better, but you still don't actually have CONTROL of void status, you just outright deny or accept limbos control. This SHOULD also mean you can't interact with things in the void, such as a limbo rezzing you from the void. So now you have to weigh the benefits of a limbo who can control your void status in a positive way (like easy rezzing and get out of jail free cards) against a bad limbo. For PVP being void immune could also mean that a limbo in the void would be stealthed to you, not sure about this but just a quick suggestion.

Edited October 30, 2014 by MedioMorde

[Ronyn]

My apologies sir it seems I did indeed misunderstand you! So to begin yes! I am completely against another character having control of the void. After all this is kinda his thing. I feel that one of the biggest differences between good and bad limbos will in the end be their synergy with other players. It's one of his most important tools, but like you said can be frustrating. However! I did say another character having CONTROL of the void is the problem. In other words, if a character wants to have the option to go into the void, they must give that control to a limbo. If they do not like the idea of trusting their limbo, then perhaps a way to make you void immune, but in a way that the status of their void immunity cannot be changed in the middle of a match. Such that whatever you choose before the match, that cannot be changed midmatch. A good way to do this I think would be to have a mod, or bonus status to existing mods, that makes you void immune. In this way you can equip a mod that will keep a limbo from messing up your game, or making it better, but you still don't actually have CONTROL of void status, you just outright deny or accept limbos control. This SHOULD also mean you can't interact with things in the void, such as a limbo rezzing you from the void. So now you have to weigh the benefits of a limbo who can control your void status in a positive way (like easy rezzing and get out of jail free cards) against a bad limbo. For PVP being void immune could also mean that a limbo in the void would be stealthed to you, not sure about this but just a quick suggestion.

That's all just too overboard when the issue is pretty straight forward.

Sure I get that from the lore and theme side of things the whole void thing is limbos domain and we don't. Want other players musling in on it.

But from the pure mechanics standpoint there really should be away for limbo to bring his unique rift utility to a team without it having to be all or nothing.

The simple answer is that limbos actions are the only way into the rift...

But the other players can still pull themselves out of it.

Heck its not even complicated to impliment.

Something as simple as....

When a player currently banished starts to attack someone outside of the rift they pop out of the rift and go back to normal.

Or hey...if you want to get weird but keep the same freedom....

When a banished player attacks an enemy not in the rift it will pull the enemy into it.

As if limbos rift effect is contagous.

[Veddhartha]

I will always hate Limbos that think they are helping by tossing cataclysm into the middle of a melee. The energy regen is not really worth it on my end, the visual effects are simply annoying, and it is even more annoying when I'm starving for energy (and cannot because a wizard did it).

[Caliocerion]

I don't like how limbos players are usually idiots who cast long duration cataclysm on a group of enemies and deny the entire team from firing.