Limbo Feedback. Thoughts On The Frame And Suggestions For Improvement.

[ADirtyMonk]

So I just recently got limbo and after playing him for a few hours on Kiste, ceres (lv 30ish grineer MD), here are my thoughts on him in terms of his viability in missions with level 30+ enemies (as such ability damage will be disregarded) and things that need to be improved.

 

To me, Limbo screams assassin with his ability to selectively isolate individual targets or groups of enemies while amplifying his own damage output. I think that his energy regeneration within the rift is a brilliant mechanic and add a support element to his gameplay.

 

I am currently playing limbo as a melee assassin, building him for duration and power efficiency although I have no doubt he can work as a ranged assassin as well with power range mods.  I can rift walk for a minute per cast, banishing single enemies while taking advantage of the knockdown from banish to deal extremely high bursts of damage with melee executions. With a crimson deverish dakra prime, the only enemies I have had to hit more than once are bombards and eviscerators.

 

Limbo is incredibly dependent on duration mods as leaving the rift in the wrong place or very often will get him killed due to how squishy he is. If there is a seeker or two nearby, I will die almost instantly.

 

It is incredible fun to be able to walk into the middle of a massive group of grineer, especially with how much damage they do now with the accuracy update, and execute them one by one. Banish and rift walk have incredible utility as revive tools but they really should be used to save allies before they are downed. Limbo has some potential as a support frame but single target casting in Warframe in general is too slow and difficult to aim in my opinion to be of much use. I have found cataclysm useful as a snowglobe-esque ability in a pinch but it needs work.

 

Now for some issues I have experienced with his gameplay.

 

Major issues:

1. Banish: Banish takes too long to cast and requires too much player input

 

Even with natural talent, banish takes too long to cast, as such Limbo is slow to find targets and dps plummets. In the time I can banish and kill one target, my teammates have killed ten or more. What's more, I have to cast banish for each enemy I want to kill which locks me into a casting animation, often followed by a slow melee execution animation. This is ridiculous when any frame with an AOE nuke or properly modded weapon can rapidly mow down an entire room with much less effort. Additionally, once Limbo runs out of energy, he is essentially useless until his energy regenerates. This brings the flow of gameplay to a complete halt. I cannot do anything, enemies cannot do anything to me. Standing around is boring but if I leave riftwalk to pick up energy orbs, I can die. Using cataclysm in most situations is not viable as it will bring enough enemies into the rift to quickly kill Limbo. There needs to be a way to keep the rift filled with single targets selected by the player, yet with minimal player input and minimal animation locking.

 

As banish currently is, I suggest halving the cast time of banish at minimum or just getting rid of the cast time completely.

 

I suggest that DE change banish to work as follows: After the initial target is killed, the next enemy Limbo hits/shoots or holds the crosshair over for half a second within three seconds (think scanning), and is within the casting range of Banish will be immediately banished into the void at a reduced energy cost. This effect can occur X number of times depending on Banish's current rank. Re-casting banish on a banished target will return them to reality at no energy cost. Re-casting banish on a non-banished target while banish is active will banish the target at full energy cost and cancel the first banish. Banished allies can simply press the use button when no usable items are around to exit the rift.

 

* Banish currently costs too much energy. I can banish around 15 enemies in a row before I am out of energy and have to stand around waiting for Rift walk to regenerate enough energy for me to banish more enemies. This does not factor using cataclysm or rift surge. I suggest reducing the cost of banish to 10 energy with a further reduction if limbo is banishing enemies while inside the rift.

 

* Banish does not drop airborne units. It would be nice if banishing an airborne enemy drops them to the ground.

 

* Banish should force enemies into an unaware state similar to Valkyr's paralysis instead of a knockdown. This will increase the effectiveness of Limbo as melee can now proc yellow crits instead of locking the player into an execute animation (which has significantly higher DPS than an execution) and ranged players do not have to drastically adjust their aim to target vulnerable spots (ex. heads) as is currently the case with the knockdowns.

 

2. Rift Walk: On one hand it is borderline overpowered due to the invincibility and the energy regeneration it grants (I have no doubt that it is overpowered on lower level missions). On the other hand, not being able to pick up any objects or attack enemies is a huge downside and makes this ability completely dependent on banish/cataclysm. I think it is in a good place with how Limbo is currently set up. Sentinels also do not follow you into the rift (not sure about kubrows).

As it is, I think the skill needs a few adjustments. Players should be able to pick up items and experience/nav orbs, but not health or energy orbs. Players should be able to carry datamasses while in the rift. Pets should follow you into the rift. Otherwise running into a group of enemies just guarantees that the pet dies.

3. Rift Surge: I think this skill is in a decent place right now. Exchange a relatively large chunk of energy for a massive damage increase. But it could be so much more.

As it currently is, I feel that this ability needs to be put on a toggle or have the duration match Rift walk’s.  It is bothersome to have to recast the two skills at increasingly wider intervals and I see no good reason for the durations to be so different.

I would love to see this ability become limbo’s ultimate, increasing not only his damage but movement and casting speed as well at the current or slightly higher (~75) energy cost.

 

4. Cataclysm: This ability needs work. For an ultimate, both the initial and ending explosion damage is incredibly subpar. It cannot be recast so once the enemies inside are dead the skill is near worthless until it expires. The base diameter can be rapidly traversed by enemies, severely limiting the amount of time the player has to kill them, additionally the constantly shrinking diameter makes it very difficult to use to defend players/objects or offensively to select groups of units.

As it is, cataclysm needs to be recastable. I suggest that recasting cataclysm not cancel any existing cataclysms to add an element of risk to the skill. I also suggest a reduced energy cost, perhaps 25-30 energy.

I feel that cataclysm should be Limbo’s 3 skill and Rift surge, the ultimate. I suggest that cataclysm maintain a constant diameter. Upon casting, any enemies caught within the area of effect are very briefly stunned. Upon recast cataclysm collapses in on itself dragging all enemies/items within it into the center and knocking them down. This way, banish will be single target selection. Cataclysm would be group selection/AOE cc.

 

As a personality, I love Limbo, his animations sets, lore, and design are masterfully done and make him stand out from the rest of the warframes. In game, Limbo is a fun frame but he could be so much more.  As it stands, he is extremely reliant on his abilities to keep himself alive and select targets, but because of casting animations, he deals extremely high damage, but kills at an extremely low rate. He has some support utility but again due to the difficulty of targeting allies his potential as a support falls by the wayside.

 

I hope the suggestions I have listed here can be considered by DE. Thanks for reading.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ADirtyMonk

[izzatuw]

I just disagree that Cata switches spot with Rift Surge. One needs the other to work and Rift Surge isn't really worth calling an ult

[ADirtyMonk]

I can see where you're coming from.  I agree with you that rift surge in its current state is not worthy as an ult, but if it were changed to give Limbo further buffs such as movement speed/punch through/armor ignore/ etc, then it should be the ult especially because cataclysm is basically just an AOE banish.

[izzatuw]

I can see where you're coming from.  I agree with you that rift surge in its current state is not worthy as an ult, but if it were changed to give Limbo further buffs such as movement speed/punch through/armor ignore/ etc, then it should be the ult especially because cataclysm is basically just an AOE banish.

Afaik, you can deal more damage to enemies in Catacylsm, but I think the whole rift dimension needs a change besides not being able to pick up and shoot anyone outside of the Rift Surge. Limbo also needs a way to compensate for his squishiness.

[ADirtyMonk]

Interesting. I will try testing that. According to the wiki/ability description there is no damage boost against enemies within cataclysm.

 

I personally think that limbo is fine as a squishy frame given his role as an assassin. Rift walk already grants invincibility and banish is a knockdown. I think it is appropriate that part of playing with Limbo should be knowing how fast you can kill something which by extension means knowing how many enemies you should be bringing into the rift at once.

[izzatuw]

Interesting. I will try testing that. According to the wiki/ability description there is no damage boost against enemies within cataclysm.

 

I personally think that limbo is fine as a squishy frame given his role as an assassin. Rift walk already grants invincibility and banish is a knockdown. I think it is appropriate that part of playing with Limbo should be knowing how fast you can kill something which by extension means knowing how many enemies you should be bringing into the rift at once.

Just checked, apparently he doesn't but he does need some tweaks with the rift world itself.