So You Say Limbo Is Useless...

[Dualstar]

Yes, I do actually. I've thought about that scenario, and while it does sound fun, it completely limits him to being a Teamspeak Frame.

Well im a Teamspeak player (most of the time) so my perspective is obviously different.

 

and also require a very specific team make up (to be effective)

And my clan can make those specific setups happen. Theres a reason why i say Frost is impotent and obselete compared to Volt.

 

It also assumes that the fact that Warframe abilities can effect enemies outside the rift is not a bug. I would assume it is.

Granted, this is a gray area at the moment. But the combinations it enables have made Limbo the first frame since Volt that i feel is worth straight-up buying with plat.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Dualstar

[LukeAura]

Then again, the -55% Power Efficiency can be softened quite nicely with a Streamline. And given that how Limbo can regenerate energy in the Rift Plane (and with Energy Siphon helping him out), I would say 687% is still a viable choice. 

So 25% more energy across all abilities is worth what may not amount to any savings in effective kill time? 

Even at 4.4 energy per second. He will cover exactly one rift walk, and one rift surge and not even one banish, over a 30 second period.  

Edited October 30, 2014 by LukeAura

[Dualstar]

So 25% more energy across all abilities is worth what may not amount to any savings in effective kill time? 

Well keep in mind that Riftwalk and Rift Surge are realatively cheap to use anyway. And Limbo has a big evergy pool.

 

Also depends on the weapon. I nominate Dread, few things can stand it normally, i would think a 687% damage boost would enable it to oneshot heavy gunners at far higher levels than usual.

[GideonG]

Well im a Teamspeak player (most of the time) so my perspective is obviously different.

 

And my clan can make those specific setups happen. Theres a reason why i say Frost is impotent and obselete compared to Volt.

 

Granted, this is a gray area at the moment. But the combinations it enables have made Limbo the first frame since Volt that i feel is worth straight-up buying with plat.

 

I agree that in some very specific situations and set ups, he can be an amazing tool to open up some incredible possibilities. (Assuming it's not a bug).

 

I just think that, given a few tweaks, he could be far more effective across a broader range of situations and set ups. Do you think that's reasonable to expect? Or do you think he should be kept such a niche tool that (in order to be effective) requires your entire squad to play around Limbo?

Edited October 30, 2014 by GideonG

[Renegade343]

So 25% more energy across all abilities is worth what may not amount to any savings in effective kill time? 

Stack on duration mods to make them worth the cost. 

 

And stacking on Transient Fortitude makes Rift Walk a bit useless (in which I think that Rift Walk would be his most important skill). 

 

And for that setup, I would do as thus (for now, with the supplied mechanics): 

 

Spam Banish on a group of targeted enemies. 

Cast Rift Walk once enough enemies are in the Rift.

Cast Rift Surge. 

Shoot to kill. 

Stay around in Rift Walk until the player is satisfied with the energy gained (or bring a few more enemies into the Rift). 

Rinse and repeat. 

[IlluminaBlade]

I think its established now.

Pointless against anything you could have just mowed down with impunity but effective against incredibly high level targets.

[Judgebanks]

Looked like the ash was carrying the limbo in the defense, as usual.

[Madrauk]

Looked like the ash was carrying the limbo in the defense, as usual.

A support getting carried by a high damage dealer frame.

Quite the revelation right here.

[Dualstar]

I just think that, given a few tweaks, he could be far more effective across a broader range of situations and set ups. Do you think that's reasonable to expect? Or do you think he should be kept such a niche tool that (in order to be effective) requires your entire squad to play around Limbo?

Well then what would you suggest? I wouldnt want to pull more enemies than i could deal with into the rift (learned that the hard way when i first used Cataclysm) and even if Limbo gets more tweaks why would anyone have him as a first choice frame instead of Rhino?

 

Though theres nothing wrong with having a squad set up to play around one specific style. Especially when said style is hilarious to watch and slightly gamebreaking.

[Dualstar]

Looked like the ash was carrying the limbo in the defense, as usual.

Oh, so Ash can intercept hundreds of bullets with Bladestorm now, can he?

Edited October 30, 2014 by Dualstar

[GideonG]

Well then what would you suggest? I wouldnt want to pull more enemies than i could deal with into the rift (learned that the hard way when i first used Cataclysm) and even if Limbo gets more tweaks why would anyone have him as a first choice frame instead of Rhino?

 

Though theres nothing wrong with having a squad set up to play around one specific style. Especially when said style is hilarious to watch and slightly gamebreaking.

 

There are plenty of suggestion threads, I've posted in them. This isn't one. so I'll keep it out of here. Not trying to derail.

 

I was merely commenting on what was posted, that's it.

[Judgebanks]

Oh, so Ash can intercept hundreds of bullets with Bladestorm now, can he?

Just remove the enemies that fire the bullets from the equation, ezpz.

[Dualstar]

Just remove the enemies that fire the bullets from the equation, ezpz.

Or you could make sure the bullets never hit. Is much better.

[Renegade343]

Or you could make sure the bullets never hit. Is much better.

Well, you do have to run in to place a Cataclysm in the middle of enemies to make sure the bullets never hit (in which the Limbo could die). 

 

Or Banish them one by one, which gets a bit frustrating after a while. 

 

At least Ash can stun the targeted enemies most of the time anyways, so there is that. 

[Madrauk]

Well, you do have to run in to place a Cataclysm in the middle of enemies to make sure the bullets never hit (in which the Limbo could die). 

 

Or Banish them one by one, which gets a bit frustrating after a while. 

 

At least Ash can stun the targeted enemies most of the time anyways, so there is that. 

Except that you can Rift Walk in to place the Cataclysm and be totally safe. And that you can place Cataclysms on the reticle from an infinite distance.

[Renegade343]

Except that you can Rift Walk in to place the Cataclysm and be totally safe. And that you can place Cataclysms on the reticle from an infinite distance.

In which you still need to aim. 

 

Ash just presses 4, then stuns everyone in the Bladestorm range (not that I use it [because I want to place effort for playing games]). 

[Dualstar]

Well, you do have to run in to place a Cataclysm in the middle of enemies to make sure the bullets never hit (in which the Limbo could die). 

 

Or Banish them one by one, which gets a bit frustrating after a while. 

 

At least Ash can stun the targeted enemies most of the time anyways, so there is that. 

You can put the Cataclysm on the pod and it will be in the rift as a result.

 

 

In which you still need to aim.

Riftwalk invincibility gives you plenty of time to aim, sprint across the map, go afk and get a drink, etc.

[Flamingfighter]

He's obviously not a high damage/kill frame, that's not the intent behind him. His point is to be a single target assassin and an incredible team support. The Ash that had to bladestorm to kill an enemy would be able to afford that thanks to the availability of the energy restoring rift, and if he couldn't he could just walk into the cataclysm and kill the enemy personally.

But right now his ability to take out single targets is still lackluster and inefficient. It takes at least 5 seconds for him to properly set up his skills to start taking on the enemy and THEN he does damage. Any person simply shooting at an eximus (and I am aware this was Wave 35) could take it down in that time if their gun was actually set up to go to far and kill it easily without the need of limbo's damage buff. I'm not saying the Limbo strategy isn't good, just inefficient.

 

If he is meant to only kill strong targets, then he is a 1-trick pony that doesn't have much purpose until late game when the tougher enemies start showing. But when the game progresses after that, then there are simply too many for him to be able to effectively deal with all of them. I doubt those three enemies he killed in the video were the majority of the heavies that showed up (or even eximuses). While he spent the wave setting up to kill those enemies, his teammates wiped out all the other enemies, heavies and eximuses included.

 

A later argument in this thread says he is worth it because his Banish can make teammates invulnerable for ults. This makes him a 1-trick pony in which his powers are effectively useless except to look around for your air-coptering allies so that they can press 4 to win.

[Renegade343]

You can put the Cataclysm on the pod and it will be in the rift as a result.

You meant that. I see.

 

Riftwalk invincibility gives you plenty of time to aim, sprint across the map, go afk and get a drink, etc.

In which everyone else goes off to wipe out one or two waves in Defence, as an exaggeration. 

[Dualstar]

In which everyone else goes off to wipe out one or two waves in Defence, as an exaggeration. 

Thats the thing about supports. Thier contribution to the team cannot be measured by kill metrics.

[Renegade343]

Thats the thing about supports. Thier contribution to the team cannot be measured by kill metrics.

True, if not for the fact that is a bit slow as a support skill (and team members have to run in and out of the dome with blinding visual changes) (and not to mention that the dome's mechanics is a bit unintuitive) (and also: More confusing visuals when viewing into the dome). 

[Dualstar]

True, if not for the fact that is a bit slow as a support skill (and team members have to run in and out of the dome with blinding visual changes) (and not to mention that the dome's mechanics is a bit unintuitive) (and also: More confusing visuals when viewing into the dome). 

Natrual Talent exists. Its not like you need more health or shields anyway.

 

Also I find Cataclysm to be less visually obstructive than Snowglobe.

 

And bringing in a Volt biult around Electric Shield means youll only ever need to leave to pick up drops.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Dualstar

[Renegade343]

I find Cataclysm to be less visually obstructive than Snowglobe, actually.

I find it otherwise. Snowglobe visuals I can manage, but Cataclysm visuals just brings trouble with trying to find the enemy. 

 

Natrual Talent exists. Its not like you need more health or shields anyway.

Have fun with a Slash status effect from a stray bullet. 

 

And not to mention that Natural Talent is quite a difficult mod to obtain (either Interception [in which it would just be tedious] or the Grustrag 3 [if it ever spawns]). 

[Dualstar]

Have fun with a Slash status effect from a stray bullet. 

Riftwalk makes me immune to that.

 

And not to mention that Natural Talent is quite a difficult mod to obtain (either Interception [in which it would just be tedious] or the Grustrag 3 [if it ever spawns]). 

Theyre actually only semi-rare on Intercept missions theese days. You also have a chance to get one on any wave.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Dualstar

[Bernkastal]

So I'm a Limbo secondary player.... Just going to chime in that A) He exists as a mediocre pug frame at best, B) playwise, he's in my top 1-2. C) Scaling is beyond God Tier D) A proper utility Limbo with lots of experience can dispatch about 6 enemies in 10 seconds if he's using a melee weapon that's 1shotting. This includes casting time to get into riftwalk and all banishes. i personally manage around 1 enemy every 2-3 seconds but i'm still not the slickest with it yet. His single target isolation is beautiful and he fills his particular niche without any issue in the slightest.