Beta?...

[DaedalusDragon]

I was reading through a thread about the moustaches and somebody mentioned that this game is still in beta... What? I played this game in January of 2014 and I don't remember anything about this being in beta... How long are people going to keep defending games with "it's in beta" when it is clearly only there in name and the devs are using it as a defense against complaints about bugs in updates.

 

Do I have issues with this game currently? Not really. It has some bugs but even released games have those, and being in beta does not defend against keeping them. I do have an issue with the f2p model. This game is completely f2p, but ONLY if you are willing to have a far sub-par experience. Good mods are based purely on alert RNG (or buying it with plat from a luckier player), need potatoes for every new weapon/frame (which is also based on alert RNG), and you MUST use plat to buy extra slots for other frames/weapons.

 

Stop using beta for games that have been out for months. Anyone can play. Anyone can PAY... beta is a meaningless term for most games and it includes this.

[Shady_Steve]

This game is still in beta. When you sign up to play, you are agreeing to be subject to any changes of the product at any time. It's legally in an open beta stage and no matter how much you want it to be otherwise, it will still be, in an open beta. Sorry.

[Katakuna]

So long as the Open Beta Agreement still says it's a beta, it's a beta.  No amount of personal opinions will change that.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Katakuna

[JohnProdman]

Warframe is not the only game that is being funded and developed through Beta-testing.

[Dualstar]

Its in beta.

 

And if you were like me and were among those to got Archwing before the 15.0.3 hotfix, you would believe it too.

[Orbister]

Don't worry, you are not alone, paying also worsens your gaming experience sometimes: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/336648-platinum-users-pay-for-a-worse-gaming-experience/#entry3772538

 

Be prepared for a horde of troll white knights using the most intricate far fetched arguments to bash on your logical observations though, they are more like religious fanatics than costumers, because after all, this is a product...

[RockCambo]

DE is still in the process of making tilesets for every sector, remaking the bosses leftover from when Warframe was barely anything, working on endgame content like Syndicates and Focus, has to balance out PvP in some shape and form, bring out the full extent of the game's lore (one piece at a time), and fix the bugs that keeps popping up everytime an update happens until they get it as perfect as they can.

 

For the most part it's still in beta because despite all this content we have there's so much more that has to be added in first in order to be considered ready for an actual release.

Edited November 1, 2014 by RockCambo

[bejuizb]

All of my mods were levelled using fusion cores and duplicates I farmed myself, and I can vouch for hundreds of high level players like me who did the exact same. The only thing you need to pay for is slots, which you can just get off of trade chat with some dedicated farming and trading. It's pay for convenience, not pay to win. Trust me, I know. Been playing this game for well over 700 hours and I never faced a moment where I thought: if I pay for this thing, I can do so much better.

[Shady_Steve]

Don't worry, you are not alone, paying also worsens your gaming experience sometimes: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/336648-platinum-users-pay-for-a-worse-gaming-experience/#entry3772538

 

Be prepared for a horde of troll white knights using the most intricate far fetched arguments to bash on your logical observations though, they are more like religious fanatics than costumers, because after all, this is a product...

Are you advertising/citing your own thread? lol

[-FrostByte-]

the reason why it is in beta is becuase the game is about 50% complete.

 

we have gone through some CRAZY changes

 

 

go read the early patch notes and you will understand why its beta. A lot of things come in and go.

[PhoenixTheMeh]

I think the term beta has become somewhat meaningless in terms of game development because it means something different for every developer. DE seems to do a small amount of testing internally then test on a large amount of diverse hardware through the people playing the game. They then make changes and corrections based on feedback and bug reports. 

 

As for the game being in beta, it seems to be a bit of a grey area. There has been no announcement or indication that the game was taken out of beta, and since it's free to pay, the game going on sale can't be an indication of release. I've been playing this game since it entered it's open beta phase quite some time ago.

 

As for platinum, that was purchasable since the beginning (or near beginning) of open beta. It was stated (possibly in the EULA) that if the progress was reset as can happen in beta stage, that all spent plat would be returned. I don't think it's likely to happen, but it does negate the proof of release.

 

So what does this all mean to me? If I find a bug, I report it (same as I would for a beta or released game), if the bug makes it impossible or not fun to play, I stop until it's been fixed (same as I would for a beta or released game).

 

I don't think people should be using "beta" as an excuse, but with more "modern" development models the end user is more frequently being used as a form of quality control if for no other reason than because it's cheaper.

[vaugahn]

You clicked on this when you downloaded the game:

 

 

As long as that's plastered on the front of the launcher, the game is in beta. No amount of complaining will ever change that. And if you honestly think this game is in a complete state...well, I don't even know what to say to that.

[TwiceDead]

This is actually early-access. Doesn't make much of a difference though. 

 

If we're going by literal definitions at least. 

Edited November 1, 2014 by TwiceDead

[Shady_Steve]

This is actually early-access. Doesn't make much of a difference though. 

 

If we're going by literal definitions at least. 

How is it early access?

[Dualstar]

Be prepared for a horde of troll white knights using the most intricate far fetched arguments to bash on your logical observations though, they are more like religious fanatics than costumers, because after all, this is a product...

And what logic is there? OP is mainly complaining about the F2P model.

 

And we dont need anything you think we use, we only need this;

 

[TwiceDead]

How is it early access?

Game is in an incomplete state, content is continuously being released as the game approaches full-release. 

Beta was a tag used for games in a near-finished state, a test for a product prior to a commercial release. This definition hardly fits Warframe. Not like definitions matter though. Warframe is a full-fledged F2P title with content being added regularly. The BETA tag is just there to excuse the bugs until they get fixed and everyone knows this. The BETA tag has lost it's meaning since the times it actually made sense. 

Edited November 1, 2014 by TwiceDead

[Acaelus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_beta

 

Basically fits warframe perfectly.

Essentially, because they always release major, game-changing content at a frequent rate they don't go into a full release, because a full release would imply that the game is at a final state. No more U12, U13, U14, U15, etc. So the game is in perpetual beta, it constantly releases content that isn't (and in all honesty can't be) fully beta tested.

That makes it a lot faster for them to release content. It's a lot better for them to be able to make content and release it quickly making sure it at least works, then fixing any problems the players find rather than releasing content a month after they finish it because of beta testing.

 

So it might suck finding bugs and hearing beta, but does it really matter if it means we get to add our own content, get content faster and get super quick hotfixes and such?

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I don't see how Warframe has 'not' always been like this at least on the weapons department.

 

People who buy weapons with plat will get a weapon that's not polished out for the players, it comes down to your opinion after that.

 

Whether you feel that it's worse play experience, it's fine. It's expected for gamers to feel that way.

 

But you can also think like this. You're given a privilege to experience a content still in development and have some laugh and chuckles on the notorious redtext's puns on hotfixes.

 

When it comes to Warframe, in which the devs implemented this 'perpetual beta,' (I've never experienced this from any other games) those little bugs are the charm of the game. We literally have an open window to talk to the devs and we get to hear some of the answers every two weeks. Then they would actually put those changes when it's 'why-not-implement-it' change.

 

Of course, as some people posted pics of terms and conditions followed by installing the game, it should be understandable for the devs to make mistakes, get feedbacks and fix. But I know people sometimes find it hard. They want a perfect game content when it's there for them at the moment of purchase, when in Warframe, it's more like get the first-buggy weapon to test it out and tell the devs, 'hey there's something wrong with it.' Then they would gladly put a hotfix as they've always done. 

 

Tough luck, a game in perpetual beta like Warframe might not be a good type of game for you.

Edited November 1, 2014 by GaiaNyix

[Freezing-Dragon]

So..We're still in "Beta"...What's next? Alpha-Build? 

[Acaelus]

I have to question why people even care about the beta tag.

 

Beta means that you get to experience content first-hand, find all the bugs, see all the changes that were made, and fix them. You get to see a new system that was introduced and suggest a change, and they'll listen to that suggestion. If we weren't in a perpetual beta, once they implemented something it'd be a lot harder for them to go back and change it. If something was bugged, you'd get to wait for them to fix it next week, rather than a hotfix a day. If we wanted something core changed in a new system it would likely never happen because the delay between that system being finished, and released to the public would be so long that they'd have built many more things on it. As it stands now that's not the case, and we can actually change stuff.

 

As it stands the beta tag is a give and take, we have to deal with a few release bugs here and there, but in exchange we get to majorly influence new game content.

[KaynArgyr]

To be utterly fair, Warframe is a software system with a large base of users, system like these are subject to changes during all of their life cycle...

 

To make a less gaming related paragon, you can think to the systems banks runs for their business... Studying them you'll see how much they've changed during the course of the decades, with a lot of new stuff being implemented as the market evolved...

 

Think about EU banks, that first had to deal with all the currencies, then to convert all of these in Euro, having to deal with the old and new currency during the transition period.. All with the minor bugs and fixed they had to deal with... (And here in Italy, Poste Italiane had to deal with a large issue back a couple of years ago...)

 

For us players Beta, is just a term of convenience to say that the game is ever changed and we can experience bugs that'll be fixed as soon as possible... And a way to sensibilize the players into helping I believe...

[Seraphyx]

Stop using beta for games that have been out for months. Anyone can play. Anyone can PAY... beta is a meaningless term for most games and it includes this.

Dwarf Fortress has been "out" for over a decade and it's still labeled as an alpha. There is no "rule" about development that states how long alphas and betas last, the developers decide that.

 

If it's meaningless then ignore it. Why does it bother you that they're not ready to consider the game fully released? You're not the one developing the game, you don't know what their vision of completeness is or what more is to come.

[Rydian]

What? I played this game in January of 2014 and I don't remember anything about this being in beta...

Did you notice that the entire user interface changed? :P

 

 

This is about what it looked like back in Jan.

 

Huge changes like this generally happen to games that aren't done yet.

 

 

 

Dwarf Fortress has been "out" for over a decade and it's still labeled as an alpha. There is no "rule" about development that states how long alphas and betas last, the developers decide that.

Fully agreed here (Dwarf Fortress has such protracted development that there wasn't a public update for two years), phrases like "Alpha" and "Beta" and "RC" and such refer to stages of development, not timespans.

 

It's just that some devs started using the term "beta" in such a way that a lot of people started thinking that "beta" means "behind the scenes sneak peek".

 

[MeduSalem]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_beta

 

Basically fits warframe perfectly.

Essentially, because they always release major, game-changing content at a frequent rate they don't go into a full release, because a full release would imply that the game is at a final state. No more U12, U13, U14, U15, etc. So the game is in perpetual beta, it constantly releases content that isn't (and in all honesty can't be) fully beta tested.

That makes it a lot faster for them to release content. It's a lot better for them to be able to make content and release it quickly making sure it at least works, then fixing any problems the players find rather than releasing content a month after they finish it because of beta testing.

 

So it might suck finding bugs and hearing beta, but does it really matter if it means we get to add our own content, get content faster and get super quick hotfixes and such?

 

It's the truth, Warframe is a perpetual beta. But even if this is the truth it is an ugly attitude by the developers behind a specific product.

 

It's like developing/creating stuff and not wanting to take any responsibillity for the havoc and problems being created along the road. It's an umbrella they are using to prevent the heavy sh*tstorms that would break lose every time they rushed things beyond believe just to meet a deadline they set themselves.

 

One can do that with a limited target audience as long as the product is not well known... but with more than 8.5 million accounts being created for Warframe it stops being a reasonable business model. At some point it starts to p*ss off players and thereby the potential customers. At least it leaves a bad taste in the mouth and causes nothing but bad reputation after a while. Many of my friends stopped giving a f*ck about Warframe a long time ago for good reasons and many others can't be bothered to start playing at all because of the reputation. So luring new players in won't work forever. So they may have released the first year statistics but I honestly don't believe in statistics which I didn't manipulate myself so I wouldn't wonder if only a small percentage of the created accounts are really active. My evergrowing friendlist of people who have been offline for months which is constantly increasing are supporting that. I'm not in a big clan who's kicking out inactive players all the time to get fresh new ones so I can't not see the problem.

 

The Beta Tag is just worn out and currently stands for nothing more than a marketing gimmick to justify the lack of quality in recent updates as well as not having to fix stuff for a long period of time and not having to give a crap about giving players something to do beyond the grind that holds you over for the next piece of content they are going to release that just involves even more grind. It's been a long time since they released something just for the sake of the fun and that does not involve just plain "grind your butt off". We were promised so many things, especially something to do with all our weapons/equipment and items but nothing has been implemented the way it has been proposed on streams. They always found a last-minute way to squeeze in some more grind relying on the old tricks.

 

I don't know how long they will be able to sustain that kind of model but I wouldn't be surprised if they are never leaving beta at all. They will always find a way to squeeze in a new addition and virtually prolong the beta thereby keeping earlier mentioned umbrella for all eternity, never really having to deal with the serious critics being raised all while the White Knights keep on falling for that shrewd practice helping defend the rotten/foul "grind to hold over for the next grind"-mess that Warframe has become over time.

 

All I'm saying is the practice is getting old. It's worn out. I'm tired of it and many other people probably too. No amount of key/grindwall gated crap they are going to add to this game will change the plain fact that all they really know is uncreative and repetitive gameplay. It's like a clown showing the same old trick a hundred times. It doesn't get any better just by wearing a different costume.

[BloodKitten]