Beta?...

[FrackingBiscuit]

[Arlayn]

 

 

Also if it wasn't beta anymore the game would've been killed by lawsuits ages ago... that wouldn't have been good. Then I wouldn't have a game to play anymore... Well maybe Spore. I could play spore again... alone... well dang... that is depressing.

[MeduSalem]

Also if it wasn't beta anymore the game would've been killed by lawsuits ages ago... that wouldn't have been good. Then I wouldn't have a game to play anymore...

 

As with many things in life... it's better to make a painful break than draw out the agony.

 

At least I can't imagine DE being able to remain the Beta theme until we reached World of Warframe magnitudes which seems like what they are going for with the neverending additions giving them yet another reason to hold back on changing to "released" status. ^^

[Arlayn]

As with many things in life... it's better to make a painful break than draw out the agony.

 

At least I can't imagine DE being able to remain the Beta theme until we reached World of Warframe magnitudes which seems like what they are going for with the neverending additions giving them yet another reason to hold back on changing to "released" status. ^^

what painful break? THERE IS LITERALLY NO GAMES TO PLAY... There hasnt been a good game to play since AVP2 when I could play as a Xenomorph, and the game not be a broken mess like the 2010 version. Seriously every game is look at my face, or I am a worthless loser, and rarely is it as epic as Metal Gear Rising where its more than human, less human, not human at all, or covered faces, and not being a wimp, and even then all the games do it anyway, and not give the player any form of pleasure, of good looking characters, or even do good things for a good price AT ALL. If warframe goes that is the end of gaming for me. I literally have nothing left to play. Unless an AVP planet side game comes out and I can play as Xenomorphs there is just nothing to play. So it wouldnt be a painful break it would be the death of gaming for me.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Arlayn

[MeduSalem]

what painful break? THERE IS LITERALLY NO GAMES TO PLAY... There hasnt been a good game to play since AVP2 when I could play as a Xenomorph, and the game not be a broken mess like the 2010 version. Seriously every game is look at my face, or I am a worthless loser, and rarely is it as epic as Metal Gear Rising where its more than human, less human, not human at all, or covered faces, and not being a wimp, and even then all the games do it anyway, and not give the player any form of pleasure, of good looking characters, or even do good things for a good price AT ALL. If warframe goes that is the end of gaming for me. I literally have nothing left to play. Unless an AVP planet side game comes out and I can play as Xenomorphs there is just nothing to play. So it wouldnt be a painful break it would be the death of gaming for me.

 

True, I'll give you that point. Ever since 2004-2005 timeframe or something there's not much worth playing or even wasting money on.

 

 

And since 2010 add bullcrap like DLCs, In-App purchases and all that kind of stuff to the mix as well.

 

But that out of the way I'll probably be heading over to the new iteration of Unreal Tournament when the big landslide of sh*t will eventually crumble down the Warframe mountain, if it didn't happen already and we just didn't realize it yet.

 

 

 

I came over from the Unreal Tournament community anyways... because I heard that Dark Sector/Warframe would become somewhat like spiritual successors to the Unreal franchise in the early concept stages. Well... some of the weapons got carried over... some of the faster gameplay/movement styles too... but the neverending GRIND without any real purpose. Nah... that's what slowly kills it for me if it hasn't already. If they aren't giving the grind any purpose soon... hence something that's NOT additional grind but a real purpose beyond the grind then I'll be gone... I can't take much more of the same repetitive stuff just being presented in different shades of color. It doesn't help covering sh*t in chocolate. After taking the first bite you know what's going on.

 

I thought that the Proxy Wars... a.k.a Syndicates would become something with more purpose... but nope it just was another bunch of grindwalls based on the same old grind gameplay we have already been doing the past 1.5-2 years to hold you over but this time with even less reasonable rewards. The upcoming Focus system will be pretty much the same thing... Just grinding the same old missions over and over for some more XP and additional skilltrees (if that's still what they are planning?) and for what purpose? To have even more DPS and stuff you don't need anyways? We already don't need more dmg mods because we overnuke everything or more weapons because we have no real reason to use all that crap beyond Mastery Rank. So making ourselfes near to godlike will bore us even more pretty soon. ^^

 

To quote Smith from Matrix:

 

"Without purpose we would not exist. It's the purpose that created us, purpose that connects us, purpose that pulls us, that guides us, that drives us, it is purpose that defines us, purpose that binds us."

 

Without DE giving all the damn boring-*ss grind they are forcing upon us some more purpose beyond "grinding so you can have some more grind" all the hard work they putting into this game is just plain a waste of friggin time. Grinding for items that serve no real purpose doesn't make me feel accomplished anymore.

 

A friggin sigil to show off that nobody else cares about at the end of the Syndicate grind won't make me feel accomplished.

Tenthousand additonal weapons which are left to rot in the inventory without any reason to be used won't make me feel accomplished.

Having MR 17 (soon 18) just shows how much time I wasted without thinking about any greater purpose so that doesn't make me feel accomplished.

 

Lately I have tried playing some Dark Sectors just to get some different flavor in the game even I said to myself that I'd NEVER play a Tenno vs Tenno or PvP mode because of the balancing issues... But well I didn't get surprised at all. It is suffering all the problems DE never thought about fixing for the PvE part in the first place. I remember dozen of good threads with feedback on the balancing, which never got considered and now that finally pays off.

 

 

All that is somehow connected to the beta problem in general because if the game would not be in beta anymore they could not get away with the the "grind to hold over for the next grind"-meta as easily anymore as they do now because of players asking "So what's the deal about the grind? Is there something more to it we don't know yet or is that all we are supposed to do in this game?". On-top of the classy truckload of bugs/crashes/balancing issues/lack of quality/usability problems and whatnot that also acompany the lack of overall purpose we are facing.

 

That said I'm continuing to play because there's not really anything else on the market worth the time... which is DE's only major advantage currently. But once there's real competition around they will have a hard time standing their ground because there's not much else in Warframe but grind.

 

 

But coming back to the painful break... I've been playing Castlevania IV, Super Ghouls n Ghosts, Demon's Crest and Super Metroid as well as some others on my old SNES lately to ease my mind of the grindfest that Warframe has become and they are so much more fun because they don't make me grind the same friggin spot for 10 hours straight to get just one item part (not even the whole item). If DE really wants to shine and to take the gaming industry to the next level they should consider looking back at what made older games from pre-2000 fun so that they could be played over and over without heavily relying on RNGating everything.

 

True story. Warframe, a 2014 game got its *ss beaten by 1991 SNES games in terms of fun and replayability.

Edited November 1, 2014 by MeduSalem

[harakiripour]

These threads will be proven correct when this game never goes gold.  "Beta" is an excuse for poor planning, subpar devs, no endgame, countless bugs, etc.  Listen to the devstream maybe 6 weeks ago when the braintrust couldn't even define endgame.  This game isn't beta it's just dying.  If this game does go gold it will be one of the biggest flops of all time because everyone already experienced the content.  Worst business model ever.    

[DarthCariss]

This is essentially what I call an "industry beta". Meaning it's a beta in name more than function. It has the level of polish and content of a full release while retaining the beta title for various reasons.

[h8seekr]

Sorry, this game ceased being beta when the cash shop opened.

[Ov3rd0se]

Why does this keep coming up?

 

This game resembles nothing of complete and if you think it does you've got terribly low standards or the IQ of 50. Beta is referring to the game being incomplete. Say whatever you want, it's all irrelevant. 

[Shady_Steve]

So many tl;dr posts in here.. The game is still being built. It's in beta. It's not a discussion.

[Corvid]

h8seekr, on 01 Nov 2014 - 1:07 PM, said:

Sorry, this game ceased being beta when the cash shop opened.

 

By whose definition is that? Where I come from, revenue has no effect on the release status of a product.

[izanagi00]

i couldn't care less whether it's called alpha beta or release, it's fun to play and that's all that matters to me.

[DaedalusDragon]

 

Well, I got a good nights sleep, logged in, and thought "Oh, I should check on that thread I started". A lot of good posts here... and a few less than helpful ones. The post I'm quoting wasn't all that helpful, but it did put me in a fit of laughter for a few minutes, so that's good.

 

My complaints weren't necessarily that they still call this beta, so much as that the player base seems to think that "beta" is some magical defense spell that negates any and all arguments made against problems with the game. At this point in gaming we should stop using beta (especially open betas, or buy-in betas) entirely. Games don't stop getting patches after release and to that point betas aren't all that different from release. It's main use now is to whip fans into a defensive posture whenever somebody has a complaint.

[vaugahn]

My complaints weren't necessarily that they still call this beta, so much as that the player base seems to think that "beta" is some magical defense spell that negates any and all arguments made against problems with the game. At this point in gaming we should stop using beta (especially open betas, or buy-in betas) entirely. Games don't stop getting patches after release and to that point betas aren't all that different from release. It's main use now is to whip fans into a defensive posture whenever somebody has a complaint.

 

Notice that you never see the devs excuse anything with beta. All they ever say about it is that it's really nice to get feedback during development instead of after development. 

[Shady_Steve]

Well, I got a good nights sleep, logged in, and thought "Oh, I should check on that thread I started". A lot of good posts here... and a few less than helpful ones. The post I'm quoting wasn't all that helpful, but it did put me in a fit of laughter for a few minutes, so that's good.

 

My complaints weren't necessarily that they still call this beta, so much as that the player base seems to think that "beta" is some magical defense spell that negates any and all arguments made against problems with the game. At this point in gaming we should stop using beta (especially open betas, or buy-in betas) entirely. Games don't stop getting patches after release and to that point betas aren't all that different from release. It's main use now is to whip fans into a defensive posture whenever somebody has a complaint.

You could not be more wrong.. You think the term beta is used to.. what? Write-off people who disagree with you? Games receive patches after development. Yes. But not very many, and they are months apart ranging from miniscule garbage to wide in scope. But the patches stop, because it becomes less and less financially viable to continue working on a released game. (Example: Total War Rome II. Many patches that could never solve the problems at the game's core, instead a standalone title is planned for release that is built on the foundation of Rome2 with all fixes and additions fans desired in the first game. At full retail price.) Here, DE are making money. They are still making HUGE changes and additions to the game. This is not post-release patching. This is a development period, and we are participating in that.

 

Open Beta will end.

And you can expect this game to be a whole other beast when it does, with a mountain of new, ripped, old and revamped features.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Shady_Steve

[Djangofett]

Calm down, go to your room and think about what you just said.

[Zamio]

It's a beta in a literal term, but in terms of gameplay and features? Yeah, it might as well be full. 

 

inb4 "WTF NO U ARE WRONG BETA IS SUPA BETA U ARE WRONG HOW DARE U DOUBT DE'S GREATNESS JWAHKGHEIAWDHWQUIRHWTF".

 

I mean, it's already struck before, I'm just waiting for a certain poster to reply.

[VampirePirate]

where's the popcorn and soda?

[Rydian]

At this point in gaming we should stop using beta (especially open betas, or buy-in betas) entirely.

Well on a technical note we don't still have magical computers that transform thoughts into bug-free finished code in short timespans, so development stages will still remain.

 

On a human note though, yeah I'm also tired of games talking about a bunch of stuff, going into "beta", then you buy in and find much less than they talked about actually exists in the game.  (I'm looking at you, Starbound.)

[mokaiba]

eh, beta.

[DaedalusDragon]

I noticed a few people made comments that, well, honestly, didn't make any sense.

 

For instance, Shady_Steve says "You could not be more wrong.. You think the term beta is used to.. what? Write-off people who disagree with you? Games receive patches after development." One note about this series of statements and silly questions is that the last statement has nothing to do with the question you asked me. Yes, I do believe people use the term "beta" to write off arguments used against a game. I do not see where games receiving patches after development has anything to do with that. You go on to continue discussing how games typically don't have post-release updates. What are you comparing this game to? It's pretty easy to see that Warframe is an MMO, albeit instanced. When was the last time that you saw an MMO receive little to no updates post open beta? MMOs make money based on keeping people in the game, so it is in their best interest to continue development. I think you are trying to state, as fact, that Warframe will stop receiving any updates when they finally remove this "open beta" tag. That is only true if they never remove the open beta tag. Your argument is flawed as you begin because you state false equivalency between the use of the term "beta" and your perceptions of post-release development of genres of games that are not at all related to this one.

 

vaugahn, you state "Notice that you never see the devs excuse anything with beta. All they ever say about it is that it's really nice to get feedback during development instead of after development." I'm not talking about the devs. The players are the issue. Like the gif above, players tend to use the term "beta" as a catch all defense, even when it isn't relevant. Something being in beta, especially now when games can enter beta and never leave, is not an excuse for issues with the game and it isn't a defense against people with legitimate complaints against the game. Beta is essentially a method for somebody saying "don't complain, it might get fixed eventually". It is just another method of uniting the more mindless players into "white-knighting" games. Should they be defending some aspect of the game that is being criticized? I see so many players who don't realize that they are standing against fair consumer practices just because they reaaaaallllyyyy want this game and realllllyyyy hope that *game dev* notices them and praises them. It wouldn't be an unfair comparison to say that some of these players are like dogs. They are so desperately searching for recognition from the people who feed them their games. And on that last half of that quote, it is implied that development would end. Read the first large paragraph and see that I've already explained that that will likely not happen and then think back on that. Beta != development, Beta is a proper subset of development.

 

I'm not a kid. I realize that this will probably have no effect and that you can't change the minds of the willfully ignorant, so I won't try after this. If you see my disappearance from this thread as a victory then congratulations, but you have not earned it. If you see this as a victory then you are either a child or beyond hope. I ask that people think for themselves and make fully reasoned arguments using logic.

[MeduSalem]

These threads will be proven correct when this game never goes gold.  "Beta" is an excuse for poor planning, subpar devs, no endgame, countless bugs, etc.  Listen to the devstream maybe 6 weeks ago when the braintrust couldn't even define endgame.  This game isn't beta it's just dying.  If this game does go gold it will be one of the biggest flops of all time because everyone already experienced the content.  Worst business model ever.    

 

While I don't say that the devs are subpar the other problems mentioned are definitely there. There's poor planning in some of the games aspects because lately many of the major additions require full overhaul the second they get released... like for example:

 

 

• DMG 2.0 - because it didn't fix the power creep and elemental rainbow; it just gave it new flavors of color but the core problem remains and got even worse with the addition of 5 new sets of dmg/dualstat mods from the events completely rendering the polarity system obsolete because now every polarity slot NOT V-polarity-related just plain sucks.
• Melee 2.0 - the grind for stances to hold you over for something that went through way too many design iterations and doesn't live up to the hype created around it because it loses reliability faster than the old charge dmg system before that. It just overcomplicates things by using the weirdest ways to smash "E" for combos possible. Also the new enemies added over the course render it pretty much suicide to go melee-mode... try to fight Infested in swarm mode when 10 mutalist ospreys, 3 toxic ancients and 5 toxic crawler are nearby. I warn you, but it is not fun at all.
• Kubrows - wow, don't even get me started on that crap. They just got added to give the game a broader mass-appeal and having an additional income from Plat trades but not because we actually needed them.
• UI 3.0 - Man... the usabillity still sucks and not much has changed about that in the past 3 months. I'm already tired of the diegetic crap, especially the sway and warframes blocking the views and that they refuse to just move the frames a little bit out of the way.  Also I'm sick of the fact that I literally have to run everywhere on the Liset because it takes even longer to navigate the main menu which is just plain ridiculous when you think about it. I also plain hate that they changed the mod list scrolling to horizontal because that sucks *ss from a straw because it takes forever to scroll when one has 500 mods on different ranks in just one category. The best thing about the horizontal scrolling... We already had that last year and people hated it and that's why it got changed to vertical back then.
• Syndicates - just another bunch of grindwalls for subpar rewards relying on the same old grind crap trick we were already doing before even it has been advertised as being a proper endgame content for veterans at the beginning of the year. So much about keeping promises.
• Archwing - I'd really like to have a talk with the mad man who came up with the balancing of that game mode. How is it possible to f*ck up balancing for a game mode this badly? I mean literally half the frames are completely useless because they are only half as durable as something like Frost/Rhino but have no advantage in damage/crowd control to make up for their defense disadvantages. Nyx, Ember, Banshee etc are at a complete disadvantage and it is impossible to play with them on stuff like Uranus because you get literally oneshot. It's all because archwing defense depends on Warframe defense capabilities while not carrying over the unique roles each Warframe inhabits. How is it possible that there's a swarming game mode and that they did not consider carrying over some of the Warframe abilities/roles into Archwing to make it a more fun and balanced and reliable game mode? I mean literally... What the hell where they thinking when coming up with that? How could they release that and say "Yeah it's great! That's how we imagined it.". It verges on arrogance or at least they are blind to the issues this has caused.

 

 

That's about all the stuff that comes into my mind now but there are surely more things rolled out with major issues that never got fixed along the road because they were already preparing the next major content release that will suffer exactly the same or similar problems. At least it goes for anything before U15, but I wouldn't wonder if the problems of the U15 are here to stay for another year to come because they never ever think about returning to fix the core problems about them. The only point when they will get fixed is when another 2.0 or 3.0 or 4.0 is going to steamroll any or all of the work they haven't bothered fixing all the time. I wonder how many more of those iterations we will have to see come and go before they finally realize that the goal is to FIX at least ONE of them.

 

While I don't know if the game will be a flop if it gets ever released you are right about the fact that we will have pretty much consumed every aspect of the gameplay already leaving nothing for majority of the playerbase to do because the Devs don't even care about adding something that goes beyond the grind that gives players something to do after having enough of the same boring repetitive gameplay.

 

Why does this keep coming up?

 

This game resembles nothing of complete and if you think it does you've got terribly low standards or the IQ of 50. Beta is referring to the game being incomplete. Say whatever you want, it's all irrelevant.

 

It's the plain fact that they don't even try to get this game completed. They will always find a new piece of content to add which doesn't meet up with high quality standards thereby virtually prolonging the "beta"-meta. While I appreciate new content... it grows old fast because the only thing they really add is more grind. And I can't get rid of the feeling they only do that (remaining the beta) because they want to keep the umbrella preventing sh*tstorms and having to deal with the serious complaints and critics being raised on the whole damn business model and problems that never get addressed all while adding tons of new problems along the road.

 

The game is a wreckage on many scales and they are padding each other on the shoulder on the devstreams as if they are talking about a completely different game. At least I can't imagine that any of them ever tried standing through all the grind madness and unbalanced crap they are implementing to the game. It seems like they don't even play their own game for more than a few hours  or with anything else than their godlike developer build that is pretty much nothing like the game we have to experience. It's easy for them to run a script in command input and be geared up godlike all while we have to sit weeks through the subpar grindfest that serves no real purpose other than hold us over for the next grind.

 

Notice that you never see the devs excuse anything with beta. All they ever say about it is that it's really nice to get feedback during development instead of after development. 

 

You are right, they don't excuse anything with beta directly, but lately they already apologize in advance for the massive bugs and other issues they had no problems with dumping on our heads in the first place. Either that or they find foul other excuses as to why some things are like that or they chose to remain silent on various topics altogether. Don't know which one is worse.

 

They know stuff lacks quality and is bugged to hell and still say "yeah let's put this out to the masses" all while believing that we will swallow the crap anyways. Especially when Steve wrote on one of the Syndicate topics "Yeah I know it is a last minute addition and suffers problems but we pushed it out anyways". That's arrogance I've yet to see anywhere else. I don't know what changed their development attitude this year but last year they at least said "when it's done" like any developer trying to meet some quality standards and showing some responsibility on stuff they create would do.

 

At least they should come back to the grounds of reality and have a look at what mess they've caused in the past months before moving along with new stuff. They should stop hyping things up if they can't meet their own quality standards or deadlines. They also should stop burdening themselves if they can't keep up the pace. The recent releases all felt rushed because they did not want to disappoint the community, which I somewhat can relate to but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

Open Beta will end.

And you can expect this game to be a whole other beast when it does, with a mountain of new, ripped, old and revamped features.

 

So you basically want the beta tag to stay until it has reached World of Warframe magnitude? Well good luck with that because if they are keeping the pace of f*cking things up this game will probably have everything but nothing actually really enjoyable or playable.

 

While I don't match with everything Satoshi Tajiri once said he is true about one core thing:

 

"If we combined all ideas into a game, it would be an unplayable monstrous game."

 

And that's in fact the truth about Warframe too ever since they added various stuff to the game nobody asked for... like Kubrows or Archwing... even Archwing might be fun if they actually would have balanced that piece of crap and incorporated more of Warframe into it rather than making it something that could have been a complete stand-alone game altogether.

 

I noticed a few people made comments that, well, honestly, didn't make any sense.

 

For instance, Shady_Steve says "You could not be more wrong.. You think the term beta is used to.. what? Write-off people who disagree with you? Games receive patches after development." One note about this series of statements and silly questions is that the last statement has nothing to do with the question you asked me. Yes, I do believe people use the term "beta" to write off arguments used against a game. I do not see where games receiving patches after development has anything to do with that. You go on to continue discussing how games typically don't have post-release updates. What are you comparing this game to? It's pretty easy to see that Warframe is an MMO, albeit instanced. When was the last time that you saw an MMO receive little to no updates post open beta? MMOs make money based on keeping people in the game, so it is in their best interest to continue development. I think you are trying to state, as fact, that Warframe will stop receiving any updates when they finally remove this "open beta" tag. That is only true if they never remove the open beta tag. Your argument is flawed as you begin because you state false equivalency between the use of the term "beta" and your perceptions of post-release development of genres of games that are not at all related to this one.

 

vaugahn, you state "Notice that you never see the devs excuse anything with beta. All they ever say about it is that it's really nice to get feedback during development instead of after development." I'm not talking about the devs. The players are the issue. Like the gif above, players tend to use the term "beta" as a catch all defense, even when it isn't relevant. Something being in beta, especially now when games can enter beta and never leave, is not an excuse for issues with the game and it isn't a defense against people with legitimate complaints against the game. Beta is essentially a method for somebody saying "don't complain, it might get fixed eventually". It is just another method of uniting the more mindless players into "white-knighting" games. Should they be defending some aspect of the game that is being criticized? I see so many players who don't realize that they are standing against fair consumer practices just because they reaaaaallllyyyy want this game and realllllyyyy hope that *game dev* notices them and praises them. It wouldn't be an unfair comparison to say that some of these players are like dogs. They are so desperately searching for recognition from the people who feed them their games. And on that last half of that quote, it is implied that development would end. Read the first large paragraph and see that I've already explained that that will likely not happen and then think back on that. Beta != development, Beta is a proper subset of development.

 

I'm not a kid. I realize that this will probably have no effect and that you can't change the minds of the willfully ignorant, so I won't try after this. If you see my disappearance from this thread as a victory then congratulations, but you have not earned it. If you see this as a victory then you are either a child or beyond hope. I ask that people think for themselves and make fully reasoned arguments using logic.

 

That's the main problem this community is already suffering from. We have remained the beta tag for so long and we used the beta tag as an excuse for so many things wrong about this game ourselfes along the development path that we grew hordes of White Knights defending every bullcrap that got spit out just by mentioning "it's beta". As if our attitude to let things slip got any of the major issues with the game ever fixed.

 

I've stopped creating feedback threads about a few months ago because I realized exactly that problem. People are tearing each other apart just for the sake of tearing each other apart. Most of the time it's only about the meta-problem and not because of the actual problem itself. So the actual problem gets buried and left to rot in the archives and months later we face a landslide because we decided to bury the problem.

 

Easy for DE to not have to give a crap about most of the feedback if most of them end up being a massive mudslinging anyways. Easy for them to let slip stuff forever because White Knights roll in and defend even the sh*ttiest aspects of whatever problem is being discussed. Too many people just comment like they will receive a free cookie by DE while in fact the only thing DE does is tease you with the cookie and then lock it away in a shelf you can't reach.

Edited November 2, 2014 by MeduSalem

[vaugahn]

• DMG 2.0 - because it didn't fix the power creep and elemental rainbow; it just gave it new flavors of color but the core problem remains and got even worse with the addition of 5 new sets of dmg/dualstat mods from the events completely rendering the polarity system obsolete because now every polarity slot NOT V-polarity-related just plain sucks.
• Melee 2.0 - the grind for stances to hold you over for something that went through way too many design iterations and doesn't live up to the hype created around it because it loses reliability faster than the old charge dmg system before that. It just overcomplicates things by using the weirdest ways to smash "E" for combos possible. Also the new enemies added over the course render it pretty much suicide to go melee-mode... try to fight Infested in swarm mode when 10 mutalist ospreys, 3 toxic ancients and 5 toxic crawler are nearby. I warn you, but it is not fun at all.
• Kubrows - wow, don't even get me started on that crap. They just got added to give the game a broader mass-appeal and having an additional income from Plat trades but not because we actually needed them.
• UI 3.0 - Man... the usabillity still sucks and not much has changed about that in the past 3 months. I'm already tired of the diegetic crap, especially the sway and warframes blocking the views and that they refuse to just move the frames a little bit out of the way.  Also I'm sick of the fact that I literally have to run everywhere on the Liset because it takes even longer to navigate the main menu which is just plain ridiculous when you think about it. I also plain hate that they changed the mod list scrolling to horizontal because that sucks *ss from a straw because it takes forever to scroll when one has 500 mods on different ranks in just one category. The best thing about the horizontal scrolling... We already had that last year and people hated it and that's why it got changed to vertical back then.
• Syndicates - just another bunch of grindwalls for subpar rewards relying on the same old grind crap trick we were already doing before even it has been advertised as being a proper endgame content for veterans at the beginning of the year. So much about keeping promises.
• Archwing - I'd really like to have a talk with the mad man who came up with the balancing of that game mode. How is it possible to f*ck up balancing for a game mode this badly? I mean literally half the frames are completely useless because they are only half as durable as something like Frost/Rhino but have no advantage in damage/crowd control to make up for their defense disadvantages. Nyx, Ember, Banshee etc are at a complete disadvantage and it is impossible to play with them on stuff like Uranus because you get literally oneshot. It's all because archwing defense depends on Warframe defense capabilities while not carrying over the unique roles each Warframe inhabits. How is it possible that there's a swarming game mode and that they did not consider carrying over some of the Warframe abilities/roles into Archwing to make it a more fun and balanced and reliable game mode? I mean literally... What the hell where they thinking when coming up with that? How could they release that and say "Yeah it's great! That's how we imagined it.". It verges on arrogance or at least they are blind to the issues this has caused.

 

This right here encapsulates my problem with DE's development process, but maybe not for the obvious reason.

 

Everyone has something they like or don't like. If you asked 10 people what the biggest problem with the game was, you'd get 10 answers. Me, I'm happy with some of the items on that list, and have others I'd rather they work on. 

 

DE tries to please everyone, and ends up pleasing no one. They are one of the few devs out there that really responds to what their community wants, and that's great. But it's left them in kind of a weird spot, where things like Focus are so impossibly over-hyped that everything else pales in comparison, and every change alienates someone who thought they'd get their way.

Edited November 2, 2014 by vaugahn

[VampirePirate]

<snip>

Wow.  Finally, someone mapped it all out.  Well said.  Thank you very much.

 

Very insightful too.  Makes a great deal of sense.  Many well-made points.

 

I just wonder if DE will read this one.

[AridTeflon]

<snip>

MeduSalem kinda has a point about you. You start these kinds of arguments just for the sake of arguing them. If you want to practice your reasoning skills, don't practice in here, where people may not take you seriously. Start a Debate Team or join Model UN or something.