Removing Hitscan And Replacing It With Projectile Mechanic.

[omegaskorpion]

Many may ask what is hitscan.

 

Hitscan is game mechanic, when you shoot, you will hit object instantly. it will also select 1 of the random recoil patherns. It may look that bullet has travel time, but its just the bullet animation that travels when the accual bullet has already hitted object.

 

what is projectile?

 

Projectile is missile, laser, bullet etc that has travel time. just like boltor and corpus laser weapons.

 

 

Why replace hitscan?

 

Because grineer are either stormtroopers or elite marksman.

 

Making all weapons have real bullet mechanics would help dodging grineer bullets in highlevels, but this would also make their aim better in easier difficulties.

 

This would also replace all weapons hitscan to projectile (enemys and our), bullets are fast that you wont notice difference in close-medium rainge, but in longer rainges you need to lean your shots, just like enemys have to.

Edited November 1, 2014 by omegaskorpion

[Mkilbride]

I love Hitscan, so no.  Hitscan is more realistic than most games trying to emulate real projectiles, including games like ArmA.

[omegaskorpion]

I love Hitscan, so no.  Hitscan is more realistic than most games trying to emulate real projectiles, including games like ArmA.

 

i personaly find hitscan gimicy and it is hard to balacne when enemys have it too.

[Mkilbride]

I've played FPS since the 90s, so I am a Hitscan kinda guy. I hate games where I shoot at someone 50 feet away and there's some kind of bull travel time mechanic. Bullets move quite abit faster than people think.  You usually won't even have to aim ahead unless the guy is several hundred yards away and running.

[TwiceDead]

I love Hitscan, so no.  Hitscan is more realistic than most games trying to emulate real projectiles, including games like ArmA.

I love Hitscan to... But don't give it to the enemy. 

[holdenagincourt]

I don't think hitscan should be replaced as the dominant paradigm as long as Warframe relies on P2P.

[Severuslanskerr]

I dont want to play another battlefield ... broken bejond any fun so please spare this to battlefield and watch how great the idea was there!!!

[Krion112]

As much as I doubt it's implementation, I could be for this.

[omegaskorpion]

I dont want to play another battlefield ... broken bejond any fun so please spare this to battlefield and watch how great the idea was there!!!

 

i would say that it works there. but the game is overall bad.

 

I've played FPS since the 90s, so I am a Hitscan kinda guy. I hate games where I shoot at someone 50 feet away and there's some kind of bull travel time mechanic. Bullets move quite abit faster than people think.  You usually won't even have to aim ahead unless the guy is several hundred yards away and running.

 

people tend to think that bullets hit isntanly object.

 

but in reality the bullet speed is all about guns barel lenght, bullet type and fire mechanism.

 

Some weapons even tend to have 0,5s travel time in close rainges

 

but then agen, snipers have so much power that bullet hits target in longer rainges before you can count 0,001s

Edited November 1, 2014 by omegaskorpion

[vaugahn]

IRL bullets are fast enough that they might as well be hitscan for the ranges found in Warframe. 

 

Instead of trying to make everything have travel time, just modify the recently included accuracy algorithm to make enemies have lower accuracy when someone is moving, and 0 accuracy during a roll. 

[Phatose]

Far too many technical and balance issues for this to be remotely palatable.  You'd vastly increase the number of calculations that need to be done - hitscan gets checked for impact once, projectiles do every frame.  Bandwidth issues too -  hitscan attacks get transmitted once, projectiles multiple times.

 

And then you have the significant balance issues it causes - just take a look at Diablo 3 currently, particularly the DH, and how they use range to avoid damage and thus dominate the charts.  It would be a massive buff to snipers and a giant nerf to close-up weapons, like shotguns and melee.

 

The fact that Grineer are going to hit you isn't accidental.  You're not supposed to be able to avoid all damage like that.  Warframe is as much RPG as action game, and unavoidable damage keeps builds relevant.

 

Bad idea all around.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Phatose

[Archistopheles]

They said during the livestream that they are already working to fix the elite marksman Grineer

[Kurrumitsumi]

making the bullets projectiles would be good, but they should add in the ability for the ai to lead there shots

 

this way.. if we make an actual effort to dodge bullets we can, but the ai wont miss 24/7

[omegaskorpion]

Far too many technical and balance issues for this to be remotely palatable.  You'd vastly increase the number of calculations that need to be done - hitscan gets checked for impact once, projectiles do every frame.  Bandwidth issues too -  hitscan attacks get transmitted once, projectiles multiple times.

 

And then you have the significant balance issues it causes - just take a look at Diablo 3 currently, particularly the DH, and how they use range to avoid damage and thus dominate the charts.  It would be a massive buff to snipers and a giant nerf to close-up weapons, like shotguns and melee.

 

The fact that Grineer are going to hit you isn't accidental.  You're not supposed to be able to avoid all damage like that.  Warframe is as much RPG as action game, and unavoidable damage keeps builds relevant.

 

Bad idea all around.

 

because its fare that enemy can hit you while you are running, jumping, spinning and overall moving all the time.

 

hitscan does not reward players that are moving all the time and that is what this game is, fast paced and fast moving, projectiles would only reward moving players. 

[Zyxmax]

There aren't big enough areas in warframe so i don't think it would make a difference. This is not a simulator anyway.

However in the better shooters i played they usually use both, damage is calculated with hitscan but there is a projectile as well.

When there are very large amount of grineer it could make the game look very cool.

[omegaskorpion]

They said during the livestream that they are already working to fix the elite marksman Grineer

 

i dont hate that ballistas can hit me, i hate that i cant dodge it and that is hitscans fault.

[Archistopheles]

i dont hate that ballistas can hit me, i hate that i cant dodge it and that is hitscans fault.

dey r fixin tha bogs

[omegaskorpion]

dey r fixin tha bogs

 

don hade da accurazy hate dem hitscansssss

[LtZefar]

I dont want to play another battlefield ... broken bejond any fun so please spare this to battlefield and watch how great the idea was there!!!

 

Battlefield series are actually pretty good when it comes to bullet shooting. Among the best. It's also rare that I get a problem there with hitreg because the bullet has already been fired. With hitscan you're bound to have far more problems if it was a Peer to Peer type game.

 

Anyway at the moment it wouldn't matter if it was hitscan or projectile based. Bullets would move so fast that you can't dodge them at all. All this would do is add extra processing power to the game.

[TwiceDead]

Battlefield series are actually pretty good when it comes to bullet shooting. Among the best. It's also rare that I get a problem there with hitreg because the bullet has already been fired. With hitscan you're bound to have far more problems if it was a Peer to Peer type game.

 

Anyway at the moment it wouldn't matter if it was hitscan or projectile based. Bullets would move so fast that you can't dodge them at all. All this would do is add extra processing power to the game.

Battlefield 4's hitreg is complete garbage. Broken beyond belief. It's not a game I'd use as an example for good hitreg, not by a long shot. 

[Kettunen]

I'm not very savvy with tech so could someone tell me how AI aiming and hitscan work in practice? Does it take into consideration if I'm partially in cover, strafing or is it just plain RNG ie. line of sight -> roll to hit.

[Phatose]

because its fare that enemy can hit you while you are running, jumping, spinning and overall moving all the time.

 

hitscan does not reward players that are moving all the time and that is what this game is, fast paced and fast moving, projectiles would only reward moving players. 

 

Yes, actually it is fair that they can hit you while moving. Nearly every RPG that has even been made had unavoidable damage, from paper D&D onwards, and this game is heavily reliant on it's considerable RPG component.

 

This isn't a simple action game, never has been and never will be.  I don't see how anybody could miss that there is RPG style undodgable damage in this game.  It happens in the very first mission.  The game makes it very clear from the get go that you can not avoid all damage, and the solution to that is your build.  This isn't halo, this isn't battlefield, and it shouldn't try to be.

[TwiceDead]

Yes, actually it is fair that they can hit you while moving. Nearly every RPG that has even been made had unavoidable damage, from paper D&D onwards, and this game is heavily reliant on it's considerable RPG component.

 

This isn't a simple action game, never has been and never will be.  I don't see how anybody could miss that there is RPG style undodgable damage in this game.  It happens in the very first mission.  The game makes it very clear from the get go that you can not avoid all damage, and the solution to that is your build.  This isn't halo, this isn't battlefield, and it shouldn't try to be.

Your entire post smells of wrong to me, because you can avoid damage to your HP simply through rapid movement and use of cover, and reliance on the shield restore mechanic.

 

This is not some table-top RPG where your survival depends entirely on dice-rolls. The players reflexes, aim, situational awareness and knowledge are being put to the test in Warframe just as much as Battlefield and Halo. This is an action TPS  with RPG elements, it's not an RPG game with TPS elements(Mass Effect 1 is one such game).

[Boatsniper]

... you can avoid damage to your HP simply through rapid movement and use of cover, and reliance on the shield restore mechanic.

Lol.

 

Ever been hit by Grineer who manage to get a slash proc on you? You can't dodge omnipotent enemies with hitscan weaponry and zero reaction time.

 

making the bullets projectiles would be good, but they should add in the ability for the ai to lead there shots

 

this way.. if we make an actual effort to dodge bullets we can, but the ai wont miss 24/7

They already lead their shots, perfectly too.

[TwiceDead]

Lol.

 

Ever been hit by Grineer who manage to get a slash proc on you? You can't dodge omnipotent enemies with hitscan weaponry and zero reaction time.

Yes. First I find cover, then depending on what frame I am playing or if I have Life Strike equipped or not, I usually drop me' healing consumables. 

 

I do not approve of the hit-scan slash-proc however. It's one of the worst things frequently encounter in the game and it's taking a toll on my credits that I could be using on other stuff. 

Edited November 2, 2014 by TwiceDead