[Theory] Orokin Technology And Why It Can Be Universally Applied

[Blakrana]

It's possible the Moa and other animal proxies used by the Corpus are their own response to the Orokin artefacts they recover/purchase and what have you. When it comes to the Orokin, for some reason it seems ever more strange to consider them fighting...directly, you know?

 

Neural Sentry hijacks intruders. Technocyte is another weapon of war, at the end of the day, but an indirect method. Orokin Shield Drones are quite minimalist in design (quite annoying to Air Slash/Shoot as a result), be contrast to the only parallel we have. Zero-tech soldiers are the Orokin's best course of action against the technology subverting Sentient threat. Warframe technology is somewhere in the mix, but it supposedly isn't capable for the Sentients to subvert. Least, in theory, although the fact we won that particular fight makes it likely they couldn't touch us for some reason.

 

Still, end of the day, the Orokin military tactics seem...very opportunist, yet off hand. They'll take their enemies physical forms, one way or the other, much like the Sentients subverted their technology. Perhaps that's why the Sentients had the edge; the Orokin domination tactic fell flat, as did the wealth of their other technology, for the first time.

 

All they had left was the Tenno and their Void powers. Beings not quite fighting conventional warfare by any means.

 

As for the conductivity of gold...great for electricity, but I'm honestly at a loss on what material or substance could begin to be theorised as Void sensitive or reactive. Forma may simply be that catalyst agent for the Prime gear to draw energy from the Void defence structures. Whatever materials the Orokin did use, considering the matters we've discussed so far, I've a growing suspicion that what may look inert and metallic may not necessarily be wholly inorganic.

 

Especially if it meant they used Infested biomass on that scale, considering their role in constructing a Forma, and indeed any Orokin augmentative technology.

 

Why get special rare metals, when you can grow your own super conductive substitute and use it in military applications too?

[Pavelord]

Diggin a little bit I found about the healing properties of gold  in new age practises, won´t take their word for it, but they mention that egyptians might have believed that gold stimulated the life force and raise the level of vibration on all levels, whatever that means. Other myths for the healing properties of gold:

 

-stores, amplifies, toughts, emotions and energy.

-regenerator, helps one renew oneself.

-works on the physical, mental and spiritual plane (again with the void being a spiritual/psyonic dimension)

-benefits nervous system (neurodes and neural sensors work here) and improves the nerves ability to efficiently transmit information.

-gold is a energy generator with the power to strenghten, amplify and conduct energy in the body.

 

Forma might be use to construct a lot of things but prime warframes, they come with the gold even before formaing.

 

Other tought I´d like to see confirm is if the Sentients are the original inhabitants of the void, that would put them as the original users of void energy; Mirage lore showed us that a single tenno wasn´t enough to overpower the Sentients, maybe they only gave  the orokin a fighting chance  in this battle that might ended up being a fire againts fire thing,  just as Nyx, Nova, Trinity and Nekros also turn the power of their enemies against them, void users against void users.

[Blakrana]

Interesting stuff about the alleged properties of gold. Forma is certainly a strange material. As of the moment, we're probably as far as we can get with the nature of Forma for now.

 

As for the Sentients possibly being part of the Void...not impossible. There's nothing necessarily saying that blue star system mentioned in Mag Prime's codex was part of normal space. Should the Void have it's own denizens, we may only be scraping the surface of the possible dangers with the Sentients. Tenno ability to use the Void is in effect an equaliser then; to defend against a lightsaber, use a lightsaber, so to speak.

 

Of course, Sentients on their own are certainly a dangerous foe for even the Tenno. What if there are worse things hiding in the White?

 

...Yes. I am going to stick to calling the Void White space. Because contrast.

[Pavelord]

Taking a second look on your take on Kubrow, I think the Nai-Zhen collar you obtain at the end of the kubrow quest might actually be the modification interface, the collar is orokin technology, also do they need to leave kubrow genes unstable for allowing modification?, then are tenno also unstable in some other form, is that their affliction?

[Blakrana]

With the Kubrow stuff, it's admittedly my inference of things I've heard second hand. Considering the generally acknowledged predilection for genetic engineering the Orokin possessed, I went with what seems feasible. It may be that it is instead the Collar you mention, however, I find myself unsure as quite a few of the Kubrow mods I've seen (Bite, Scavange etc) don't make sense how they could affect an organic creature's ability unless it affects their composition in some way.

 

In other words, the collar may be the interface to enable the Stat link mods, but the Kubrow in and of itself partakes of the behaviour affecting mods as, well, that is something far more fundamental to their nature. I suspect that Kubrow genetic instability might be due to the differences of kind from making a static pet, or a modifiable battle hound; non-combat Kubrow were probably engineered to the desired form and then left alone. The Kubrow we use, because of the various situations we get into, perhaps have to have a measure of 'loose' genetic code to facilitate desired traits, or encourage mutations that may or may not be beneficial.

 

Still, as you say, I could be making a flawed assumption on the grounds of being unfamiliar with the context. It's the best recourse I have to explain why their genetic code is unstable. That, or even Orokin cloning technology was imperfect; even they must have had limits to their mastery of flesh and blood.

 

As for the Tenno, I can't say. It could be that we're not entirely 'whole' but as of yet, there's nothing to suggest we suffer degradation like the Grineer or Kubrow do. In fact, considering Vor's interest in our 'Divine Blood' I have a suspicion that his ultimate plan was to take a Tenno alive in order to get access to our genetic material, which is eminently superior to the degenerate Grineer stock. Imagine it for a moment; the entire Grineer empire, suffused with Tenno DNA.

 

It seems strange he'd want such a thing if the Tenno had damaged genetics. Of course, even if they were, Tenno DNA is probably still better nick than Grineer DNA.

 

At the end of the day, the Tenno 'affliction' may be likely referring to the Void taint, but I'm open to the possibility their forms have something else going onto them. 

[Pavelord]

Actually I was going with the tought that mods are equipped on the warframe and not the tenno, then mods would be on the collar not on the kubrow, as you mentioned tenno might not be genetically unstable; then we don´t have elements to correlate tenno moding and kubrow moding due to gene instability.

 

Giving it further tought, modding for extra damage would mean that kubrow morphology is change to have larger or sharper theeth or stronger muscules, but we have yet to see void energy doubling the body mass of a character or transforming them in monsters, so far void energy has been all about modifying physical phenomena, the creation and manipulation of energy and not of biology, from this view gene instability would not factor in moding kubrows.

 

Then we are left with the posibility that void energy is affecting the physical values, this would make kubrow attacks "void reinforce", for example if a kubrow has a bite attack with a 400 pounds in pressure strength, void energy would modify and amplify the physical forces turning into a 500/ 600 and so on, pounds in strenght. Look at Excalibur slash and dash, his inertia goes from no motion to a accelerated speed without him making any muscle effort, and Rhino is not stopping time he is increasing the inertia of enemies to the point they barely move.

 

If you think it this way, the recipient for modding doesn´t have to be previously prepared for modding nor specially constructed, mods would be void artifacts that modify the physical phenomena on a energy level, so they can be apply to anything that makes a physical or energetical effort and reinforce the theory of why orokin/void technology can be universally applied.

[Blakrana]

Well, the Kubrow being modded on a genetic level was the result of me trying to qualify the DNA stabilisers a bit further. You make a fair point it may literally be just the colour we're modding.

 

In which case, Mod technology uses the Void in a sort of 'extra' manner to what exists. Looking at it like you state above, I guess one could make it to be a bit like using the Force in Star Wars; a force user is more than capable of breaking some limits of physical action through the use of the Force to amplify their movements. If Mods were a means to give that sort of amplification to everything they're compatible with, that's quite potent. In effect, Mods work out as giving everyone access to the Force, in a small amount, but only Tenno currently have true power over the greater limits of Void Energy.

 

Although in that case, the question can be asked whether Void energy cancels itself out, seeing as it augments all other forms of energy we may encounter. Arguably, then, that'd be how Stalker does his 'thing'; his ability isn't so much powers, but more that he puts too much Void energy into the environment for a single effect to sustain.

 

Which leads me to another question; is the Stalker capable of channelling, or is that a purely Tenno power? Food for thought...

[SilentMobius]

IMHO the modularity of Orokin technology stems from 2 key points:

 

1. The Orokin were few in number, ruling over a massive empire of humans. The were the only ones who understood morphic-based forma technology, and thus the technology they gifted to their vassals was wrapped into east-to-use units that could be universally applied but were near impossible (and unnecessary) to understand

2. The key component of all Orokin tech is the golden forma, which is a technologification of the "living metal" that the Dark Sector-Era technocyte virus produced.

 

Hence the metal is shape-able via thought (When connected to suitable neural sensors) and will self-adapt to systems it is applied to.

 

I go into detail as to why I believe this is the case here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/202045-what-defines-the-orokin-and-what-rougly-did-they-look-like/

 

tl;dr The devs talk explicitly about the proposed sequel to dark sector, saying this:

 

Warframe takes place waaay beyond that timeframe. Ridiculously after, If you can imagine something like that, something that integrates itself with the body or could be re-purposed as technology this idea of metal that is also alive and changeable and so on, and the way it channels energy, this is deja vu, but we talked about, when we talked about a sequel ages ago we were talking about taking a big leap forward in time and saying "what were the societal repercussions of this idea"

 

IMHO this is the origin or the Orokin Empire, the creation of this technology in the wake of the technocyte apocalypse after the Dark Sector era

[Blakrana]

Interesting stance, and thanks for the link. Considering I finally managed to finish darkSector recently, I can see how this makes sense, let alone why the ramifications are so potent. The Orokin were opportunists; where Hayden developed as a person, they became overlords of humanity.

 

At any rate, this does help the general theory we've been passing around. Not only is Forma a 'live' tool, but this also explains why so many Technocyte/Infested materials end up getting used in the weapons we use; it's building the 'neural lattice' that the Orokin technology needs. In a sense then, Mods are 'alive' and merely interface with their 'host' given the appropriate means to do so.

 

Should this get into the thought faculties of a higher order being, such as the Tenno, then their Void connection perhaps 'overcharges' the latent abilities of the Technocyte materials? Hayden himself sets an impressive precedent; the Glaive is an evolved defence response, then his development of the Shield and Shift abilities amplifies his potential further. Combine that with his unique connection to the Glaive, allowing for skills like Aftertouch, and it's hard to see the Tenno, utilising refined forms of the same 'disease', being unable to do even greater feats.

 

Additionally, with the Orokin developing this biotechnology empire, it explains why they have Evolution inscribed on so many places. It's part of their creed. The Orokin are, going from this angle, a group of transhumanists who took control quickly because they could do the impossible. Only issue then is, how they seemed to lose ethics in the process, if our understanding of the Zariman Incident and their treatment of Tenno as pariahs and lesser individuals is correct.

 

A thought; considering the Tenno had a low social rank in Orokin society being at best rumours, at worst vilified, could it be possible that Hayden was resistant to the Orokin in their beginning? Aside from it seeming to be they were approaching Technocyte in a manner similar to Mezner did, he may also have taken issue with their implied forcing it upon humanity. Hayden and those who followed him then, became the 'Tenno' caste or what have you and the Orokin, when they overcame the as-yet unaugmented, threw them into the Void. This then leads to the Tenno being willing to strike back after the Sentient war ends.

 

The Tenno, then, in this context are serving the higher goal of trying to prevent the Technocyte being abused or forced upon an unwilling humanity. It...does not appear to have worked out so well if that was indeed the long term plan. At least it suggests why Hayden's name is found all over the Void and certain Warframes; remembering the Tenno cause despite it all.

[SilentMobius]

Interesting stance, and thanks for the link. Considering I finally managed to finish darkSector recently, I can see how this makes sense, let alone why the ramifications are so potent. The Orokin were opportunists; where Hayden developed as a person, they became overlords of humanity.

 

At any rate, this does help the general theory we've been passing around. Not only is Forma a 'live' tool, but this also explains why so many Technocyte/Infested materials end up getting used in the weapons we use; it's building the 'neural lattice' that the Orokin technology needs. In a sense then, Mods are 'alive' and merely interface with their 'host' given the appropriate means to do so.

 

Should this get into the thought faculties of a higher order being, such as the Tenno, then their Void connection perhaps 'overcharges' the latent abilities of the Technocyte materials? Hayden himself sets an impressive precedent; the Glaive is an evolved defence response, then his development of the Shield and Shift abilities amplifies his potential further. Combine that with his unique connection to the Glaive, allowing for skills like Aftertouch, and it's hard to see the Tenno, utilising refined forms of the same 'disease', being unable to do even greater feats.

 

Additionally, with the Orokin developing this biotechnology empire, it explains why they have Evolution inscribed on so many places. It's part of their creed. The Orokin are, going from this angle, a group of transhumanists who took control quickly because they could do the impossible. Only issue then is, how they seemed to lose ethics in the process, if our understanding of the Zariman Incident and their treatment of Tenno as pariahs and lesser individuals is correct.

 

A thought; considering the Tenno had a low social rank in Orokin society being at best rumours, at worst vilified, could it be possible that Hayden was resistant to the Orokin in their beginning? Aside from it seeming to be they were approaching Technocyte in a manner similar to Mezner did, he may also have taken issue with their implied forcing it upon humanity. Hayden and those who followed him then, became the 'Tenno' caste or what have you and the Orokin, when they overcame the as-yet unaugmented, threw them into the Void. This then leads to the Tenno being willing to strike back after the Sentient war ends.

 

The Tenno, then, in this context are serving the higher goal of trying to prevent the Technocyte being abused or forced upon an unwilling humanity. It...does not appear to have worked out so well if that was indeed the long term plan. At least it suggests why Hayden's name is found all over the Void and certain Warframes; remembering the Tenno cause despite it all.

 

IMHO Hayden Tenno fought the technocyte-monsters for many years before before the Earth fell and he died, however, I doubt that the Agency Futurist Council were "Orokin" at that point so I believe that Hayden Tenno never saw the Orokin era, he was only the "First Tenno" in that the legend of a suited Warrior and protector of humanity was used hundreds and maybe thousands of years later when the Orokin used their refined technology to build new suits in a similar way to the two suits that the AFC made before Mezner joined the hive mind. I also don't believe the Tenno are infected with any form of technocyte virus, I simply think that the Orokin used the legends of Hayden suffering under a burden that twisted him to inspire the Void-twisted humans who would become the Tenno. It's the Void-power that the Orokin didn't understand and wanted to direct at the Sentients, they didn't want to recreate a being like Hayden.

 

Much like Jesus could be considered the first Christian and yet the Catholic Church as we know it didn't exist for a good 600 years after.

 

I also wouldn't call forma bio-tech I'd say that the Orokin's use of technocyte by-products had been so much refined by the time of the Sentients war that they could produce the raw metal (Morphics) without application for the virus proper. I was simply a mysterious technology that only the "Cold and Gold Emperors" could produce. Not the by-product of a virus

 

I'd say that the Orokin were _so_ confident in their mastery of this technology they though that they could enginner new monsters to use and shock troops should the Tenno fail, this strain would eventually become the Infestation. After all the Infestation as-we-know-it couldn't corrupt inorganic matter and didn't produce the morphic-metal that the original technocyte virus could. Only after extensive experimentation did Alad-V unlock the infestations ability to corrupt metals and minerals.

[Blakrana]

Fair. In that case, Hayden is out of the equation enough to be used as a symbol, whilst still being distinct enough to focus on. I wonder how he'd feel, being the namesake of a race of ascetic warriors.

 

Still, it seems then that the Technocyte was 'devolved' or whatever the relative term would be, from it's metallising nature. Which if true means the Orokin truly had mastered the nature of the Virus, enough to turn 'off' traits, something that Alad V was sadly brilliant enough to unlock. Although in all accounts, this lends to the case for the Orokin being less...humane than they were. Whatever they encountered would then be little more than ends to their goals, despite the costs.

 

At any case, this explains why the Grineer and Corpus have to be kept from attaining too much familiarity with the Orokin technology they recover; should the Grineer or the Corpus attain even the smallest mastery of the deeper potential of Technocyte, as you suggest, then the whole conflict could end up decided permanently in favour of one or the other, and all that'd entail. Alad V being a most dangerous individual, then, for being admittedly brilliant enough to unravel a measure of their secrets.

 

In as far as the Tenno go, if they aren't infected, arguably that's a plus in their book as we're not too sure Void-taint does anything overt to one's body, compared to Technocyte's rather...particular traits. If it merely means physics breaking powers, well, I can think of worse problems.

[SilentMobius]

This is why I think the Orokin Towers look the way they do. IMHO they look opulent, not futuristic, but the kind of off-kilter luxury that only a 1%er who has been used to their wealth for a long time would feel comfortable in.

 

It also explains the technological dark age after the Sentients War. I mean if the Orokin were a race with the sort of diffuse technological progression that a normal society has then so much more technological know-how would have survived. We know that at least some of the Orokin Empire subjects were indeed human (from codex entries), but we also know that the Orokin are no more while we still have humans around today and none of the groups claim actual ancestry from The Orokin so there must be a defining line. And I doin't see the Tenno wiping out an entire race. 

 

So IMHO it all points to the Orokin being a small group who controlled the technology for the empire and the very creation of the Empire feels like a "societal implication" of a bunch of amoral genius-level scientists achieving a near trans-human state.

 

Also, if you look at the prime Warframes, and imagine how someone would look if their whole body was shaped from the same golden forma and to the same (maybe more so) baroque style...

 

Man that would look cool.

Edited November 10, 2014 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)TonberryFeye]

This is why I think the Orokin Towers look the way they do. IMHO they look opulent, not futuristic, but the kind of off-kilter luxury that only a 1%er who has been used to their wealth for a long time would feel comfortable in.

I see Orokin much as I see Apple products - the tech has advanced beyond the need for the user to have any understanding or access to its inner workings, resulting in a move toward elegance (or even opulence) over functionality.

Something else to remember is we could have a "Cylon" situation with the Sentients. For those unfamiliar with the relaunch of Battlestar Galactica, Cylons could infect almost any system by accessing the network and corrupting everything. The only ships that survived were closed-systems; old fighters that were obsolete, and the Galactica, where every computer was self-contained and had no communication with any other computer.

The Tenno have an aspect of that. The Void shows us that the Orokin like to solve problems with flashy tech. They fight with robots, automated defense systems and machines that can seize control of living organisms. Tenno weaponry, by contrast, is shockingly primitive - all blade and bullet. If you unleashed a computer virus on an Orokin ship, it could worm its way to the Neural Sentry and the whole ship is yours. Try to infect a Tenno with a computer virus, and at best you might knock out shields or maybe disable powers; his guns keep shooting and the blade keeps cutting!

We should also keep in mind that the Orokin may not have full mastery of their own tech. If they have machines like the Neural Sentry, they likely had machines to do the heavy lifting; Orokin likely just did big picture stuff, while the details and labour was mechanical. Knock out the machines, and the Orokin become utterly helpless, unable to function and utterly without the knowledge of how to replace what they lost. Mods may be an attempt to counter that; portable, instant familiarity with your equipment or skill of choice.

As to where the Orokin went, I'd support the idea of "Orokin" being a social class of some kind who were above 'ordinary' people. By the end of the Orokin Era, based on what Stalker claims, we may have had something like this:

1) Ruling Class:

The Tenno Prime ("cold and gold Emperors").

Orokin leadership.

2a) Tenno Class:

Ordinary Tenno.

2b) Orokin Class:

Ordinary Orokin.

3) Lower Orders:

Everyone who isn't Orokin or Tenno.

Stalker was likely either 2b, or high ranking 3.

 

[Blakrana]

 

So IMHO it all points to the Orokin being a small group who controlled the technology for the empire and the very creation of the Empire feels like a "societal implication" of a bunch of amoral genius-level scientists achieving a near trans-human state.

 

You make a very convincing case, and I'm generally in agreement with you. Not only does it explain why the Orokin Void is so...ornate to put it mildly, but it also fits in with how the Tenno could have viewed the situation during the war. If it was only a handful of individuals with all the power, that is an imbalance. Making the Terminus Incident a bit like how the Jet Li film 'Hero' plays out:

 

The character masters a technique to kill from 10 paces, whilst performing feats to allow him get that close

 

At the moment, the Forma-wreathed human sounds pretty cool. Alas my inability to even begin to attempt to draw that sort of look...

 

 

I see Orokin much as I see Apple products - the tech has advanced beyond the need for the user to have any understanding or access to its inner workings, resulting in a move toward elegance (or even opulence) over functionality.

 

That analogy is both hilarious and disturbingly apt. And people wonder why I like buying black paper notebooks...

 

Still, again, far points. If the Orokin technology was overcome by the Sentients in some manner, then their best cards have been taken out of the deck right from the offset. Seeing as one must draw to continue playing, they went to the wild cards of the Tenno which won them the trick but they paid for it in the end. At any rate, the Orokin seem ever more likely to have been detached from the common citizen's life, and by the time of the war, the respectable and humane course of action.

 

However, the only thing I think I might disagree with is making the Tenno Prime to be the 'Cold and gold Emperors'; the Emperors were the Orokin, and the Tenno Prime could be considered either ceremonial bodyguards, much like the Honour Guard Elites in Halo, or soldiers venerated for their exceptional military service. A possibility nevertheless.

 

Stalker, as a Low Guardian in his own words, I'd rank perhaps as a 2b+ as his title sounds possibly military, putting him above the rank and file civilian. Although that rendition of the Orokin Empire seems to be most likely after the Sentient War seeing as before then, Tenno are pretty much rumoured pariahs to the common citizen, possibly making them a 3b grade at the start of the war. For social standing, at any rate.

[(PSN)TonberryFeye]

Ah, yes, sorry... that was born of a misreading of the Stalker quote.

 

The reason I'd rate Tenno as 'equal' to the Orokin proper is because of their importance to the state, not their popularity - I would imagine that the Tenno would have been given a lot of leeway in their operations.

 

Actually, on the subject of Stalker... is he a Tenno? He talks about the Tenno as though he were an outsider, yet he can clearly control a Warframe with skill equal to (or greater than) a Tenno, and he can use the power of the Warframe equally well. This does rather raise some questions about him, and whether the abilities of the Warframe require a suitably 'gifted' individual, or whether anyone with sufficient training (even self-taught training) can master the technology.

[SilentMobius]

The Tenno have an aspect of that. The Void shows us that the Orokin like to solve problems with flashy tech. They fight with robots, automated defense systems and machines that can seize control of living organisms. Tenno weaponry, by contrast, is shockingly primitive - all blade and bullet. If you unleashed a computer virus on an Orokin ship, it could worm its way to the Neural Sentry and the whole ship is yours. Try to infect a Tenno with a computer virus, and at best you might knock out shields or maybe disable powers; his guns keep shooting and the blade keeps cutting!

 

I would say that any tech that employs void energy was immune to Sentient control. Their "physics defying" nature renders subversion impossible. The problem being that the Orokin had no stand-alone machinery capable of using Void-energy naturally. Only The Tenno... living being could act as a conduit for this energy allowing it to enter system in a limited and controlled fashon... assuming they were disciplined enough (Hence the Warrior-Monk aesthetic impressed upon them.)

[Blakrana]

In light of the whole Void energy needing living beings, as far as we've seen, could our earlier suppositions that the Void could be a Psionic/Spiritual energy dimension be the explanation for why that'd be the case? After all, most folks agree that mechanical things don't have minds like we do, nor would they have souls. The Tenno culture then has a very good reason to be spiritual and tied to concepts and ideals like Honour and Balance as much as it is; like folding steel improves a blade, Tenno meditation could allow deeper understanding of the Void and all that'd imply.

 

Seeing as the limits of the mental domain is only the imagination and creativity of the thinker, this makes the Void a potent tool in the right hands. However, it's perhaps selective of who can benefit from such power? Or the Orokin, as theorised to be a small group of trans-human scientists, weren't at the point they could afford self-experimentation yet. Too many variables, perhaps. Meaning the Tenno, the Zhariman incident, anything involving Void energy or science, were a protracted series of experiments within the context of a war for survival.

 

And Spiritual energy affecting Technology is not unheard of in sci-fi; Phantasy Star Universe, the way Photons in that setting work is they respond to the strength of a user's spirit, giving different yields depending on their personal strength. Stronger weapons often had significantly stronger Photon Reactors alluded to in their flavour texts, meaning only the strong could really wield them effectively. Gamewise, it merely came down to levels, but still, the concept seems to work.

 

Either way, if the Void is a realm of energy relating to that of concepts or spirituality, then the mastery of a Warframe as understood through Affinity, is a Tenno aligning themselves with that concept over time, meditating through battle, so to speak.

 

Apologies if this is getting a bit weirder than it should do, just thrashing out a possible reason why 'must be living' is a trait of Void energy, so far as we can tell. Only thing living things have over machines are the potential for sentient minds and/or spirits.